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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 13:39
Looks like we have finally found the definitive defintion for prog!
 
"Music Chopper's wife does not like"LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 16:01
I've yet to come up with a better one Bob.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 18:38
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Looks like we have finally found the definitive defintion for prog!
 
"Music Chopper's wife does not like"LOL
 
That is exactly how I judge what is worth having in my collection! If my "She Who Must Be Obeyed" cannot stand it, it must be good LOL
 
"Without prog, life would be a mistake."



...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 19:31
This basically leaves us, those who are single and lonely, prog-less, as we don't have someone to use as measuring tool... Cry (that sounded so bad...) Tongue

Edited by The T - August 05 2008 at 19:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 20:36
Originally posted by T.Rox T.Rox wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Looks like we have finally found the definitive defintion for prog!
 
"Music Chopper's wife does not like"LOL
 
That is exactly how I judge what is worth having in my collection! If my "She Who Must Be Obeyed" cannot stand it, it must be good LOL
 


I sense a pattern here...Stern%20Smile

LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 22:41
Now keep in mind that Sting is a great musician, but that doesn't mean he has to be a prog musician. He has one or two songs that are almost prog-related, but he's to poppy to be called even prog related. Same thing with Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, and Elton John. Great musicians with a few proggy songs but they're still pop musicians. Overall, I don't think Sting should be in the forum, but if he was I wouldn't be mad because of his few proggy songs.

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 22:46
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Now keep in mind that Sting is a great musician, but that doesn't mean he has to be a prog musician. He has one or two songs that are almost prog-related, but he's to poppy to be called even prog related. Same thing with Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, and Elton John. Great musicians with a few proggy songs but they're still pop musicians. Overall, I don't think Sting should be in the forum, but if he was I wouldn't be mad because of his few proggy songs.


and welcome again....ClapLOL


out of curiosity...  what are those proggy songs in your estimation?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 22:58

Well none of Sting's songs are actually prog, but even though they are pop songs, some are still relitively complex for pop music, but I do agree that Sting is still not prog. Approve 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:02
oh I think he has more than just one or two proggy songs, the first album and the live Bring on the Night were pretty progressive, a first-rate jazz band behind him and compositions that outdo many pop artists today (or then) ..and some of the material on subsequent albums has merit, plus Man Erg's post about Sting's relation to - or association with - Prog.  I don't support addition but he was certainly one of the more progressing of the 80s chart toppers 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:06
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Well none of Sting's songs are actually prog, but even though they are pop songs, some are still relitively complex for pop music, but I do agree that Sting is still not prog. Approve 



ahhhh.... read this... and give me your thoughts on this... is it valid.. or complete bullsh*t LOL

Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form.

The defining characteristics of Crossover Prog are a pop music influence that is largely vacant in typical prog rock. Songs tend toward shorter, more concise presentations though still reach beyond the typical verse, bridge, chorus pattern. The harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic structures may be more easily digested in Crossover while not losing the musical integrity that a prog listener expects.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:16
All this talk about Sting is making me think you guys need to check out a very similar artist, Stevie Wonder. He has the jazz and classical influences in many of his songs, plus concept albums and long multi-sectional songs, complex rhythms and often very intelligent lyrics.

I'm not proposing Wonder for PA though, just 'stimulating' the conversation.

P.S. My wife likes Sting, Wonder and Steely Dan if you want to use the wife litmus test, but on the other hand she is really sick of me watching the Genesis with Bruford concert on VH1. What does that tell you.

Edited by Easy Money - August 09 2008 at 23:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:18
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

oh I think he has more than just one or two proggy songs, the first album and the live Bring on the Night were pretty progressive, a first-rate jazz band behind him and compositions that outdo many pop artists today (or then) ..and some of the material on subsequent albums has merit, plus Man Erg's post about Sting's relation to - or association with - Prog.  I don't support addition but he was certainly one of the more progressing of the 80s chart toppers 




Clap as I said...  merits discussion at some point.  He is much more than just a famous pop-star  'name' who is into  tantric sex and saving the Amazon  the music deserves a bit of discussion and evaluation.  No idea if I support him or not..never really considered him.... but he intrigues me.


Edited by micky - August 09 2008 at 23:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:26
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

All this talk about Sting is making me think you guys need to check out a very similar artist, Stevie Wonder. He has the jazz and classical influences in many of his songs, plus concept albums and long multi-sectional songs, complex rhythms and often very intelligent lyrics.

I'm not proposing Wonder for PA though, just 'stimulating' the conversation.



stimulated? ... aroused! LOL

maybe someday people will evaluate more on music, since the whole purpose of the site is to find and promote  PROG music.. not prog 'artists' to discover.. instead of merely Parroting out the same ofd labels and tags... until such time ...  most of these artists.. even if deserving..  will never get in.

If Sting was to raise a fuss...  Stevie Wonder would be a full blown tizzy.  I've talked enough about all that in the Davis thread.  Baby steps.. that is the name of the game... and my plan I guess you could say.


Edited by micky - August 09 2008 at 23:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2008 at 23:59
I think a lot of this has to do with the shifting definition of progressive rock over the years. I'm juat a bit older than you (ha ha), but when I was young, prog-rock bands were expected to have a British, or at least European (mostly Italian and German) flavor. Too much American flavor (blues, RnB, country etc) could be the kiss of death.

Judging from what I see on this site this is changing. When I was young we never would have called Capt Beefheart or Zappa prog-rock.

Another thing that has shifted over the years is lyrical emotional content. When I was young 'real prog-rock' had a very introspective, "I'm a misfit and no one understands me because I'm on a quest for the meaning of life and the rest of you are plastic phonies" quality to it.

To sum up all these things together, because of their lyric content bands like The Doors, Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath, who all used blues riffs, sounded more 'proggy' than bands like The Allman Brothers and Cream, with Hendrix falling somewhere in the middle and the blues based Deep Purple staking out their own territory because of Lord and Blackmore bringing in their classical and jazz influences into their 'mini-compostion' solos.


P.S. This really ties in with that other thread. Master of Puppets, when it came out, was the first album I heard in a long time that captured that early prog introspective feeling, that along with their obvious Sabbath, Purple, Floyd, Genesis influences. I don't neccessarily support Metallica on PA, but I can see why some do.

Whew ... is anybody still awake.

Edited by Easy Money - August 10 2008 at 00:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2008 at 07:38
I couldn't agree more John....  if you ask 10 people to define progressive rock.. you'll get 10 answers.  That is the beauty.. and the fun of the little games we play here.  The notion of what is.. and is not progressive rock is fluid and always changing.  This site I believe is at the forefront of shaping that... 

One time, some months after this site created in effect.. a new branch of progressive rock.. Crossover prog, one of the admins pointed out to me that references to Crossover prog, prop-pop began sprouting out across the web.  The same I've noticed with the Italian sub as a recognized seperate branch of progressive rock and not just a bunch of English clones.  These notions are not set in stone.. and is something I take a lot of interest in... pushing the boundries of what is accepted to be progresssive rock or not.  As many write-ups of the 70's musical scene.. and one like you.. who was there might attest.. .there was a distinct movement to categorizing.. sticking tags and labels on music... and less on simply listening.

That is what my goal is I guess.. .to get people into the mindset that my position here at the archives has taught me to do..  listen with your ears.. and not judge with your mouth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2008 at 08:02
Yeah, actually listen instead of being quick to judge based on labels that were applied in the past. Right on!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2008 at 09:20
Originally posted by T.Rox T.Rox wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Looks like we have finally found the definitive defintion for prog!
 
"Music Chopper's wife does not like"LOL
 
That is exactly how I judge what is worth having in my collection! If my "She Who Must Be Obeyed" cannot stand it, it must be good LOL
 
 
OMG! My wife's mobile phone ringtone (at her request) is DT's "Overture 1928"... does it mean that DT aren't prog? TongueWink
 
Additionally, she loves The Moody Blues, Harmonium, Ange, Novalis and a long line of Italian and Brazilian prog bands and she's starting to get into Gabriel-era Genesis; but hey it took me decades to find a girl like her! Smile
 
 
 
 
Guigo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2008 at 18:13
Good debate  but first reaction is I would have to say no ( This has nothing to do with Sting's repeated playings in elevators, hotel foyers, telephone " Line is busy" filler either!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2008 at 18:25
I have a general personal rule when it comes to related, if it isn't seriously considerable for a Prog category, then it shouldn't be considered for PR (I tend to treat PR as a place for bands/ artists that after evaluation by the applicable teams, aren't considered quite prog enough for other categories, but that's not that the category is all about, since PR is treated as a non-prog category, whereas I think of quasi prog or arguably prog).  After tracking down his purportedly most Proggy stuff, I think not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2008 at 02:41
Originally posted by Chris Stacey Chris Stacey wrote:

Good debate  but first reaction is I would have to say no ( This has nothing to do with Sting's repeated playings in elevators, hotel foyers, telephone " Line is busy" filler either!)


Which songs did you hear in such situations? I don't remember that ... maybe Englishman in New York, but that's about it.Embarrassed
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