mp3: Different codecs/params -> Quality

^ok, now, i set the bit rate range as you suggested along with the first settings of yours and turns out that it's not that big a space difference only that it takes three times more to rip 'em...

anyway, what sound differences am i supposed to listen to?

^min:64 max:160.. tracks appear to have a bit rate of 160 kbps after ripping and there are only a few Kb bigger... all the other settings are just like you mentioned in your very first post of this thread...

i compared the same track with the default and the new settings and... sorry, i don't hear it... maybe it's my PC.. dunno..

toolis wrote: ^min:64 max:160.. tracks appear to have a bit rate of 160 kbps after ripping and there are only a few Kb bigger... all the other settings are just like you mentioned in your very first post of this thread... i compared the same track with the default and the new settings and... sorry, i don't hear it... maybe it's my PC.. dunno..

Of course 160kbps is only 32kbps more than 128kbps, the difference will be very small. And you need the right kind of track - use something which is difficult to encode, like Post Rock, Extreme Metal, Stoner Rock - with either lots of distorted guitars, loud noise or much cymbals/high pitch sounds.

BTW: Windows does *not* show the average bitrate for VBR files ... you need a sane player (like winamp, for example) to see it. The average bitrate gives a good indication of the complexity of the music.

^ Sure. Anything that works for you is ok ... I'm just saying that it might sound better with VBR, I'm not saying that it's required in order to enjoy the music. 128kbps is too low though - I could name tons of tracks which cannot be encoded in 128kbps without obvious degradation of audio quality.

I know OGG, and it's quite good ... it's certainly more advanced than mp3. But my portable player does not support it, so I stick to mp3.

How big are the files at Q6?

Just tell me some file sizes of popular tracks (some Ayreon or Porcupine Tree for example, I see them in your sig) ... then we can compare.

MP3-1 WinAmp MP3 Encoder (v1.32, licensed from Fraunhofer)
VBR J-Stereo
VBR min 128
VBR max 192
VBR Q 0 (high)

Ogg-1 Winamp Ogg Vorbis Encoder (Archer B10)
Quality 6.01 (approx 192 kbps)

MP3-1 WinAmp MP3 Encoder (v1.32, licensed from Fraunhofer)
VBR J-Stereo
VBR min 160
VBR max 192
VBR Q 0 (high)

Ogg-1 Winamp Ogg Vorbis Encoder (Archer B10)
Quality 5.60 (approx 192 kbps)

Subject: Ayreon - Into the Electric Castle CD1

Title                                 | MP3-1 size    | Ogg-1 size  | MP3-2 size | Ogg-2 size
--------------------------------------+---------------+-------------+------------+-------------
Welcome to the New Dimension          |   4,202,496   |  4,535,356  |  4,202,496 |  4,117,478
Isis and Osiris                       |  15,204,352   | 18,220,643  | 15,222,784 | 16,662,587
Amazing Flight                        |  14,196,736   | 16,284,541  | 14,200,832 | 14,876,558
Time Beyond Time                      |   8,359,936   |  9,974,550  |  9,974,550 |  9,120,317
The Decision Tree (We're Alive)       |   8,896,512   |  9,947,402  |  9,947,402 |  9,040,160
Tunnel of Light                       |   5,451,776   |  7,032,398  |  7,032,495 |  6,464,889
Across the Rainbow Bridge             |   8,728,576   |  9,317,635  |  9,317,706 |  8,485,498


Explanation:
I created two sets of files for both formats, with slightly different settings. Reason is that after creating the first two sets, I was surprised to see that the Ogg files were bigger. First I thought the reason was the minimum bit-rate setting (128 vs. 160), but that didn't fix the issue.
Then I recalled having created Oggs with oggdropXP in the past (don't recall this version). A quick check learned that my presumed Q6 files were encoded at 180kbps avg, while the Ogg-1 series above is encoded at 192kpbs avg. Apparently the definitions of what Q6 means vary between
apps.  So my size remark relates to MP3-1 compared to Ogg-2, and as you can see the two larger and more varying pieces seem to be significantly larger in Ogg.  What's interesting to note is that the bitrate display in WinAmp shows values ranging from approx 140 up to 250 in the first 2 minutes of Isis and Osiris.


Interesting topic, any interest in performing more experiments?


Edited by Angelo - January 27 2007 at 08:24

I'm curious ... why are you limiting the VBR range that much? I use 64-320 (Q 0) ... and since I had to re-rip the album, I expanded it to 32-320:

Title                                 | Lame VBR-MTRH 32-320 j-stereo Q 0
--------------------------------------+---------------+-------------+------------+-------------
Welcome to the New Dimension          |  5,654 KB
Isis and Osiris                       | 22,108 KB
Amazing Flight                        | 19,482 KB
Time Beyond Time                      | 11,866 KB
The Decision Tree (We're Alive)       | 11,462 KB
Tunnel of Light                       |  7,834 KB
Across the Rainbow Bridge             | 12,180 KB

how's AAC compared to mp3?\