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Eetu Pellonpaa 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
 Posted: October 12 2005 at 09:01 |
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I had a thought about a review lenght. If the album already has 20-200 reviews, isn't it OK to give only a short writing decribing only your own subjective feelings about it? Or would it be better to give just a rating without review? But what i one thinks it's a one or five star album? |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 09:23 |
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"The thtiel of your thread, and the way you presented it, appeared to be a personal attack on another member. This of course breaches site rules. You are making a valid point, and as Useful Idiot says, Hugues is all too aware that some of his early reviews need updating. He is working his way through them. I have amended the title of your thread, and moved it to the appropriate section."
This is a ridiculous overreaction, and quite hypocritical, concering the overall purpose of this site (see my previous post). I would think that people who sit around assigning grades to music would have thicker skin when it comes to getting a negative review or two of their own. Personal attacks on reviewers should absolutely be fair game, provided that it does not cross the line into repeated harrassment. If one reviewer thinks that another reviewer's taste is sh*t, then why doesn't he have the right to say so? |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20252 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 10:24 |
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Actually you make a valid point! But the moving of thread was done during my response and Easy Livin had taken action without consulting me , but it is his perogative to do so! I can stand by my opinions , defend them , and you are right , the guys sitting (although I type standing up too And I took no offence as I thought there was no insult hurled at me! I did not even find the original title offensive> maybe because I am INSANE!!!!! I love baroque oblique , insane music , which is why cartesian melodic rock can bore me to death! I'd like an answer from 7COLOURS and then I propose we leave it at that and turn the page!! |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 14:46 |
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"No personal attacks" Yargh, that's the rule. It's not "no more than three personal attacks". The question is, when does criticism become a personal attack? Of course you can critisise a review or set of reviews. The way you presented your thread though crossed the line between criticism and personal attack, in my view. It ain't what you said, it was how you said it. Presumably you accept that the forum requires to me moderated. Sometimes you may not agree with the moderators views or decisions, that's life. We are only human, and must interpret the rules and apply them as best we can. Your thread is still here, all I'm asking is that you keep your posts civil and friendly. |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 15:08 |
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"No personal attacks" Yargh, that's the rule. It's not "no more than three personal attacks". The question is, when does criticism become a personal attack? Of course you can critisise a review or set of reviews. The way you presented your thread though crossed the line between criticism and personal attack, in my view.
It ain't what you said, it was how you said it." Well, *I* didn't say anything -- I didn't start that thread. I just don't see what was so wrong with it. I have no opinion of Hugues' reviews other than that he seems to write a lot of them. I've also been on music discussion boards long enough and read enough review sites to know that there usually is no point in engaging the author over what he likes and doesn't like, unless you're prepared to get into an argument that few of us have enough time for. But that doesn't mean that it isn't *fair* to do so in an objective sense, regardless of what the site rules are. Why *is* this site moderated with a Gestappo-like grip? Words can't hurt anybody, and sometimes it really takes a healthy dose of hostility to get enough blood flowing to the brain to enable the satisfactory articulation of points. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 15:39 |
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As I said, the thread is still here, isn't it!
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Posted: October 12 2005 at 15:51 |
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I heard that words can kill, - but this is different story... |
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carefulwiththataxe
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20252 |
Posted: October 13 2005 at 03:43 |
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Yargh, The fact that I took no offence at the thread is irrelevant to the fact that rules are meant to be followed and Bob/Easy must enforce those rules simply not to let things get out of hands. Even the tone of your first post (I know you did not start the thread and the so-called insults did not come from you) was not as aggressive as they seem to be now! As Bob says , the critcism is fine , but it was also not placed in the right forum> Imagine someone statrs a thread about how disgusting your tastes are and you have gone on a week holidays , and on your return you find the thread with 10 pages of attacks.....
So let's leave it at that - I am still waiting for a reaction from the thread starter
PS: if you could use the QUOTE button on the top right hand corner of the post , and then write after the second (Quote) brackets , this would make it easier to read your posts. Thanks Peace Hugues Edited by Sean Trane |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 13 2005 at 09:32 |
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I was raising more of a philosophical point than getting invovled in this particular issue (as far as I'm concerned, as long as your reviews accurately represent your opinions, they're fine regardless of who gets 1-star reviews). Ultimately, words can't hurt anybody and people reading a message board are not a captive audience -- they always have the option of not reading a thread that they find objectionable. Barring the elimination of trolls who flood boards with what is essentially non-speech, I don't understand why this -- or any -- message board would need to be moderated. The house rule about "playing nice" is wimpy, ultra-PC and a rather lame exercise in self-importance. As I previously said, it's particularly ironic, given the overall purpose of the site. This isn't my board so I don't get to make the rules -- but that doesn't prevent me from exposing the rules as silly and overbearing. As for going on holiday and coming back to read 10 pages of personal attacks about reviews -- all I could say to such a person who would be genuinely horrified is: "get a spine." They're just words, for God's sake. And, in at least some cases, I imagine, they'd even be justified. Some people are so hard-headed that they need to be extravagantly insulted before they embark upon much-needed self-improvement. Plus, how different is this from an actual artist by one of the bands that doesn't get a lot of good reviews, checking out the site and seeing ten reviews of his work being trashed? Remember, I'm only talking about harsh criticism of reviewers insofar as issues related to their actual reviews/taste in music, not their personalities in general. All I'm saying is that criticism in itself is a hostile, personal thing. This is a site devoted to criticism. Therefore, the rule against being overly critical of the critics seems both dupilcitous and unfair to me. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 13 2005 at 15:00 |
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My final word on this one Yargh. There is no such rule. Criticism is fine, as long as it is constructive, not destructive. The rule is about personal attacks, not personal attacks. Hope that helps to clarify things. |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 13 2005 at 15:03 |
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Yes, yes... you've made it quite clear what the rule *is*, but have done precious little in the way of justifying it. |
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: October 14 2005 at 03:35 |
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The moderators feel that a general level of respect would benefit the
site- a point of view that seems so reasonable as to be self-evident.
Yet Yargh is challenging this assumption. Interesting.
Yargh is in favor of the "peace through war" approach. He feels that allowing the forum to devolve into unmoderated abuse would be ultimately beneficial to the site. This is a point of view that I believe requires more justification...how is the site comparable to someone who needs to be yelled before he mends his ways? I think the burden of proof is heavily on Yargh, but I'm willing to keep an open mind...because I believe in respect.  |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: October 14 2005 at 20:22 |
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WE dont need to justify anything. The reason for the rule is self-evident and you are basically being disingenous Yargh. The Trane's reviews bolstered this site for many months and if he got the occasional one wrong (stylistically rather than critically) then so what? Five or six "dodgy" reviews from a thousand-thats over 99%-hey we should be calling this guy "The King" As "The Tactless One" of the Admin Team,I wonder why you dont just leave us to our mediocrity and tiresome rules,and just keep walkin' down the Information Superhighway until you reach the end. We hicks wish you well Yall come back now.... http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/tvmp3s.cgi?Beverly_Hillbill ies=yall_come_back.mp3
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 14 2005 at 20:47 |
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"The Trane's reviews bolstered this site for many months and if he got the occasional one wrong (stylistically rather than critically) then so what? Five or six "dodgy" reviews from a thousand-thats over 99%-hey we should be calling this guy "The King"
Why do you persist in implying that I either 1) started the thread about Hugues, or 2) have any problem with his reviews? I didn't start the thread and I don't understand why you continue to think that I have a problem with Hugue's reviews -- in fact, we've exchanged pleasantries on another thread in another area of the site and have gotten along quite well. He is obviously an enthusiastic music fan and your site benefits from his contributions. I'm talking about the big picture here; the GENERAL CONCEPT of ruthlessly-enforced niceties and the irony of having it on a site whose primary purpose is to criticize the work of other people. One would think that critics, of all people, would have thicker skin. I explained why I think a less moderated forum is a better idea than the politically-correct asylum you run here and I've phrased all of these arguments in a non-combative demeanor. Yet you've done nothing but threaten me and refuse to give any answer except complain that "we don't need to justify NUTHIN" You don't -- it's your site -- but failing to provide an explanation to a relevant, rationally-posed question is puzzling to me, not to mention a bit of a smudge in terms of credibility. Furthermore, how am I being disingenuous? |
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: October 18 2005 at 11:14 |
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No, you really haven't. You've stated that you hold that particular opinion, and you gave a metaphor or two, but you have not explained it. In fact, you've specifically avoided responding to a request to explain it. You're not by any chance an Intelligent Design fan, are you?  Here's your chance to convert the rest of us. Most of us are willing to consider any point of view that is well-reasoned and justified. All you need to do is show that yours actually is. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20252 |
Posted: October 18 2005 at 11:55 |
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Well that was uncalled for!!!!
Bob: Yargh is not the one having a problem with my reviews. This guys sevencoulours has , I sent him a mail early last week , and he read it , but so far has not reacted! As for Yargh explaining us how a wild OK Corral-style forum would work, I'd be also interested. I think we should create virtual missiles and MP3 bombers if this was to be applied though! |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: October 18 2005 at 12:59 |
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Huges reviews suck.......always have n always will!
IMO of course! |
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magog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 06 2005 Status: Offline Points: 218 |
Posted: October 18 2005 at 13:14 |
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I think Seven Coloured wants to remark the superficial way he treats albums he doesn't like, that's opposite to the guidelines reccomended by prog archive...Personally I think that every review should save a critical and professional approach and not surface too much a nasty feeling towards the album |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 19 2005 at 08:08 |
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'nuff said!
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Poor Reviews? (Thread title changed)
Topic Options
yargh wrote:
, this meaning that "personal attacks" should apply to only what is written on reviews.
How would you react???
Probably not well
and you would hate the site very quickly
.
"