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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16918
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:51 |
JJLehto wrote:
Of course one could argue any collectivist society is destined to go too far, due to its nature. Well, we'll never see Fascism again but we're heading to where the whole world is gunna be one big corporatist state I think. But maybe I've just been reading too many political things lately
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I don't think the world is going to be one big corporatist state in the near future. Conflicting tribes (countries) just don't seem to agree with each other on anything.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:52 |
A friend of my lent me his copy of 'Blowback'. Anybody read it?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:53 |
Man you ARE conservative! Taking the Huntington we are all still primordial tribes thing?  I don't think it'll be literally a single entity, more like most of our wealth and power will just be collected under a supra national entity. Seems we're heading there. IDK maybe Marx was right!
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:53 |
JJLehto wrote:
Indeed dtguitarfan, Obama hasn't done much at all, and has re-hired alot of the same people. Also remember the original bailouts and all happened under Wubya, as well as that stimulus. Maybe we aren't so different you and I!
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Ok, I'm kind of giving away the point of the movie and why people might say it's "Pro Obama Propaganda", but what about Dodd/Frank?
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16918
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:55 |
JJLehto wrote:
Man you ARE conservative! Taking the Huntington we are all still primordial tribes thing?  I don't think it'll be literally a single entity, more like most of our wealth and power will just be collected under a supra national entity. Seems we're heading there. IDK maybe Marx was right! 
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I've studied sociology and anthropology intensively and it's just what it is, even though I'd like to see as more individual agents. I think most people should think about them as individual agents within a collective place that's called society.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16918
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:58 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Indeed dtguitarfan, Obama hasn't done much at all, and has re-hired alot of the same people. Also remember the original bailouts and all happened under Wubya, as well as that stimulus. Maybe we aren't so different you and I!
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Ok, I'm kind of giving away the point of the movie and why people might say it's "Pro Obama Propaganda", but what about Dodd/Frank?
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If you want to take a look at Dodd/Frank, it simply created regulations filled with loopholes and it doesn't solve the problem at all. It also doesn't provide the right kind of regulations that the financial community wants.
Even liberal economists like Ricardo and Adam Smith warned about the powers of the financial community when it goes... wild....
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:58 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Indeed dtguitarfan, Obama hasn't done much at all, and has re-hired alot of the same people. Also remember the original bailouts and all happened under Wubya, as well as that stimulus. Maybe we aren't so different you and I!
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Ok, I'm kind of giving away the point of the movie and why people might say it's "Pro Obama Propaganda", but what about Dodd/Frank?
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That's fine, I already know Obama has been Wubya #2 so its cool  What about it? I'll admit I don't know much (since it's an epic sprawling law) aside that it's supposed to be more regulatory of Wall Street. What is the point they make about Dodd Frank? I know some of the more progressive members in Congress thought it didn't actually fix the problem. I havn't Dusty, but may have to check it out. By the name...is it about how US foreign policy always ended up being a failure and blowing up in our face?
Edited by JJLehto - December 22 2012 at 17:59
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16918
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:59 |
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:00 |
Well, the subtitle is "The Costs and Consequences of American Empire"
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:04 |
Alitare wrote:
Well, the subtitle is "The Costs and Consequences of American Empire" |
Ah
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:05 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:17 |
Oh I see. Yeah same here man, like I said it's more regulation on Wall Street but I have no clue what it says or what it's real impact will be. And I found a great site that unspun the real nitty gritty of Obamacare, but not any on Dodd Frank. Maybe no on knows what it really says  Here's a blurb from Wikipedia: To promote the financial stability of the United States by improving
accountability and transparency in the financial system, to end "too big
to fail", to protect the American taxpayer by ending bailouts, to
protect consumers from abusive financial services practices, and for
other purposes. Well, that sounds great. Doubt it can manage that but sounds nice. I'm torn on it, we see what happens when Wall Street/Finance is allowed to run a muck, but also government did help cause the problem, and I do find it odd these hugely successful businesses (sometimes for hundreds of years) did "lose their mind" and started acting so recklessly. Perhaps the book "bailout nation" sheds some light. If you can't guess...basically bailouts have historically just given companies/sectors a feeling of "awww I can do whatever I want and uncle Sam will always save me". So you had de-regulation AND the idea you'd be bailed out.
Edited by JJLehto - December 22 2012 at 18:28
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:29 |
Hmm, Bailout Nation sounds interesting. Might pick it up - thanks for the recommendation. You should check out Blowing Smoke by Wolraich. Explains how the Republican party went crazy.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 22 2012 at 18:37 |
Yes, do check it out. The guy writes it very down to Earth and seems pretty ideological free. Levels criticism where deserved, but also points out where other criticism is unfair, and doesn't bash all government. Very informative and non partisan! Nah I'm good, and don't worry I'm no Republican, was a Dem now registered Independent
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: December 26 2012 at 09:25 |
thellama73 wrote:
I don't care what Geoff thinks. He can keep thinking wildly incorrect things as much as he wants and it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is for him to make serious accusations without evidence. Racism is regarded as a cardinal sin in our society, and even accusations of it can lead to the end of people's careers. None of us should tolerate that kind of talk being carelessly thrown around.
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I have a very interesting article for you that I saw the other day - from what I've read, this is just the tip of the iceberg:
Now, take that story into context with this:
And then take a look at the very interesting caption for the photo here:
Cognitive Dissonance, my friend. In the Fox/Limbaugh/Beck/Palin/American Thinker/etc. world, all liberals are evil, all conservatives are good, and anyone they disagree with is a liberal.
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: December 28 2012 at 13:53 |
So...any guesses as to what's going to happen about the fiscal cliff? How the economy will respond to us going over (since it doesn't look likely that we're going to miss it at this point)?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 28 2012 at 19:26 |
If you are subject to your taxes going up,when you file in 2014 it won't mean a damn thing until then. If you are dependent on EUC, you get shoved off the cliff and won't be able to even scrape by.
Edited by Slartibartfast - December 28 2012 at 19:27
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: December 28 2012 at 20:01 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
If you are subject to your taxes going up,when you file in 2014 it won't mean a damn thing until then. If you are dependent on EUC, you get shoved off the cliff and won't be able to even scrape by.
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Erm...income tax? It gets taken right out of your paycheck. Sales tax? Some think that going off the fiscal cliff will actually be good, in the long run, for the economy. Unfortunately, in my opinion, any long term benefit of the fiscal cliff will be negated because the government will just try to reverse the damage and kick the can down the road again instead of really making the structural changes the the fiscal cliff is supposed to demand. Anyway...it's going to screw up the economy. But we'll survive. It's not like we've never had a recession before. I'm still thankful to live in the most affluent nation in the world, where poor people live like rich ones even during recessions, compared to the millions of suffering people in other nations around the world. When you think about it from that perspective, the fiscal cliff doesn't seem so frightening.
Edited by Ambient Hurricanes - December 28 2012 at 20:05
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: December 28 2012 at 20:25 |
Anyway...it's going to screw up the economy. But we'll survive. It's not like we've never had a recession before. I'm still thankful to live in the most affluent nation in the world, where poor people live like rich ones even during recessions, compared to the millions of suffering people in other nations around the world. When you think about it from that perspective, the fiscal cliff doesn't seem so frightening.
^ Of course this statement forgets about the 700,000 people who are homeless and usually have nothing. Nothing is nothing even in the most affluent nation. They are the truly forgotten.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16918
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Posted: December 28 2012 at 20:31 |
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/12/27/168147765/understanding-the-milk-cliff
Milk cliff lol
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