American Politics the 2016 edition |
Post Reply | Page <1 1819202122 146> |
Author | ||
The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 09:04 | |
Don't hate me but Bernie, though I agree with his message, couldn't win a general election under any circumstance.
|
||
|
||
ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 12:24 | |
Ah, never say never ... “Obama has no chance of being elected president in 2008 "
- Steven M. Warshawsky (2007) "The right knows Obama is unelectable except perhaps
against Attila the Hun." - Mark Penn (2007) "For him [Obama] to win in '08 would require a
"miracle." - Charles Krauthammer (2006) "Obama can't possibly be elected." - Dick Morris
(2008) "Mr. Obama is doomed to defeat. McCain will win, and win big, in
November." - Jeffrey Kuhner (2008)
“Every election is determined by the people who show up.” -
Larry J. Sabato |
||
"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 13:28 | |
^ not exactly a cast of open minded non partisan prognosticators there Bob It seems a lot of denial to forget just how hated the bush years were.. and the latent power of the Democratic party when they are energized. Either for a candidate or against one...
Democrats think he wouldn't have a chance. If Hillary was able to knock him side wards... make him appear self severing and petty.. not to mention un-presidential and ..gasp.. not up to the position...even when she has hardly paying him any attention.... what do you think will happen the full weight of all the heavy artillery and the kennel of attack dogs the right can muster.. by the time they are done with him all that would be left is piile of rumpled clothes. It will bounce right off of Hillary.. they've been trying to destroy her since Bill was in White House. The American public has heard it all already. .and Hillary can hit back just as hard as she gets. What would Bernie do.. whine about how unfair it is to have his character assassinated. He has no idea what he'd be getting into.. I suppose his supporter don't either.. running for office in Vermont is nothing like he'd see for a national office. It would be cutthroat, nasty, and a pack of lies and innuendo. See Swift Boaters.. Based on what we have seen.. in very genteel Democratic primaries.. he'd be a major failure at the national level IMO. We've seen this movie too many times...it isn't latent racism or political self service as those quotes were above.. it is history ... old white male northeastern liberals do NOT win elections. The message is great Bob.. the problem is the messenger.. if Warren had run. She would be the nominee.. not Hillary. She'll have her turn..and the whole of the party behind her.. she'll be waiting in the wings when Hillary's 8 years are done. Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 13:30 |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 13:48 | |
Clinton is dragging a long line of baggage that goes back even before her term as Secretary Of State and it can't all be blamed on a vast right wing conspiracy that never existed in the first place.
Benghazi and the email server will continue to hurt her whether charges are filed or not but her biggest problem is that she is not Bill. She does not have his charm, likability and silver tongue. Also, trying to sell herself as an Obama third term could definitely bite her in the butt. Sanders on the other hand has a lot of support from young people who want everything for free but there's not much of a chance that that will happen. Heavily taxing those who earn over $250,000 in order to give the little ones a comfortable free life complete with safe zones has very little chance of ever happening. The president has limited powers which is why the majority of campaign promises never happen. As far as the other side, I've never liked the circus and clowns can never be trusted. I'm not a Republican so I owe nothing to Trump or the RNC. Frankly, I hate politics and despise ninety per cent of all politicians. The other ten per cent that mean well will never acquire enough power to change anything.
|
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 13:58 | |
I had a conversation the other day at the bar with a guy who was all over the economic aspect of this election.
I told him the hell with that stuff... regardless of the party.. it won't change. Really change at least. He was like.. we need manufacturing jobs back... I laughed and told him to wake up.. your party killed that in the search of greater corporate profits...they are not coming back. Makes for a great campaign sound bite.. and good luck offering any plan to close the door after the cows have left... and taken themselves to Mexico or S.E Asia. Where the election is important.. and where who is in power does matter are the notions of softer.. yet IMO more meaningul issues. The direction of this country.. social issues.. and yes.. determining the High Court. will we have justices that think you do not have the right to marry or sleep with who you want.. or will we have justices that believe in.. well.. what this country is supposed to be about. Freedom and equality and opporunity for all... not some f**king quasi religious fundamentalist state.. run by white male christians.. for white male christians.. bah... |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 14:54 | |
Fair statements, and like Bernie admits there is no denying his battle is uphill and daunting. Warren could still play a role as a running mate, and given the fractious nature of the Republican machine at the moment, this could be the year where a third-party candidate could emerge. Neither Trump nor Sanders has any loyalty to their recently adopted parties. Given Warren would never make the kinds of ideological compromises she'd need to make to run on Hillary's ticket as well, along with her silent but palpable lack of support for Clinton and her very vocal distaste for Trump I can definitely see the possibility of an independent Sanders/Warren ticket in the general election. I'm not as confident as you that Clinton would be able to muster a two-pronged character assault on both Trump and Sanders on a long, expensive and intense general election cycle, and Sanders would have the economic moral high ground with Warren in his camp. Granted this is a far-fetched scenario, but I don't think anyone denies this is an election year that is changing the face of what is normal so who knows really ... The battleground states will be as interesting this year as they were in Bush's second campaign. In most of the ones that have open primaries (Nevada, Iowa, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Ohio and Virginia) Sanders did as well or better than Trump in both percentage and number of votes, and in a couple he even beat Clinton. Sanders with Warren as a third-party candidate can make a more cogent, mature and substantive case for economic reform as well addressing wealth inequality and political corruption than either Clinton or Trump will be able to do, which in that situation would mean the electoral count could come down to two or three key states where Trump has failed to win swing voters and Sanders has held his own against Clinton thus far. Wisconsin and Ohio will be key this year regardless, and if a strong independent candidate emerges those two states along with possibly North Carolina could well decide the election. |
||
"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 18:24 | |
Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 18:30 |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 18:47 | |
^ You keep saying not voting for hillary is a vote for trump, baloney, not voting is a vote for no one. Calling folks idiots for not voting for either of these candidates is lame. You like Clinton, I don't judge you. I don't like her don't judge me or others who are sitting this one out.
|
||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65310 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 18:49 | |
^^ Some really well observed perceptions there, Michael; politics is among your true mediums.
|
||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13099 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 18:51 | |
Really don't mind if I sit this one out; unfortunately, Steve, I can't sit this one out, as much as I despise the concept of voting for the lesser of two weevils. Trump is a buffoon who just might get us all killed. I can't take that chance.
|
||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 18:58 | |
I would never presume to tell some one who to vote for or whether they should vote at all. I also do not call folks idiots for their beliefs or political persuasions.
|
||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13099 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 19:00 | |
You're right. One should never call folks idiots for their beliefs or political persuasions. It is far more humorous to insinuate it and see if they grasp what you have inferred.
|
||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 19:09 | |
Childish
|
||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13099 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 19:12 | |
Seriously? Is this a 'Thou shalt not joke thread'? Perhaps you need an enema. You're a might backed up.
|
||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 19:18 | |
far more humorous to see some grasp what is NOT inferred.
big difference between in the idiocy of not voting... that is a personal choice. I could never do that but we have the right to decide for ourselves what to do. Never once said.. never will say.. that not voting makes one an idiot. I will say that makes you as much of the problem as the problem you may have in the first place. This isn't a beauty pageant. Both have warts and smell bad... the trick is to to find the one that won't stink up your place and give you a bad case of the drips and crabs.. However, and this I'll stand by, if one thinks that Hillary and Trump are one and the same and are not a bible thumping racist bigot. Then yes... I won't infer nothing. I think one is an idiot. case in point... you may not like Hillaries ties to Wall Street... but one is far more vested to be worried about who is commander in chief and has control over our nuclear arsenal. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/i-think-he-could-come-apart-222949 Goddamnit... think ... this is important. You may not agree with Hillary.. but she is stable. Misguided? Perhaps.. but not a lunatic... Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 19:23 |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 19:18 | |
I never found you funny no matter what joke you tell.
|
||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13099 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 20:55 | |
I'll tell you a joke that you really won't find funny. It's a joke about someone who refuses to vote when the Supreme Court is being held hostage. A previously conservative Supreme Court who ruled on Citizen's United and basically gave away elections to corporate entities and eliminated one person one vote and replaced it with one PAC to rule them all, one PAC to find them, one PAC to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. What next, the elimination of Roe v. Wade? Making contraceptives illegal? Will women have to leave their vaginas in a jar by the door when they leave the house? If the Republican majority continues to kidnap the constitution, what fresh hell will Trump unleash if he is elected and allowed to select a justice (and I use the word loosely)? Huge swathes of voters are already being gerrymandered out of relevance, and some states are intent on making voting laws so difficult it will be hard to tell the difference between them and the old Jim Crow states. I've already seen some polling spots where voters have to wait in long lines for several hours to vote - and somehow struggle to do so on a work day. There's a punch line in there somewhere, but it's funny only in an odd, wholly ironic manner.
|
||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||
aglasshouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505 |
Posted: May 13 2016 at 21:27 | |
I would say that this thread went downhill but I mean with politics you're already starting at the bottom of the hill
|
||
http://fryingpanmedia.com
|
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 14 2016 at 07:59 | |
thanks man... enjoying a good read this morning on Trump's interesting day yesterday... I will give Trump credit for one thing.. he is never dull... I do wonder at times... well.. I've been wondering for the last 6 months. What really is he all about. A Hillary plant... co-conspirators to destroy the Republican Party as we have grown to know it. A party of ignorant evangelical bigots more interested in imposing their social norms, legislating their brand of morality, rather than responsible governing.. Working in tandem... Hillary working the 3 point line... Trump down low... or is Trump just on the ultimate ego trip... really no interest in winning... just getting the ultimate in self gratification by running and making a mess of things and seeing his name all over the world's news. Perhaps squiring all this away for the basis of his next reality TV show.. Edited by micky - May 14 2016 at 08:03 |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: May 14 2016 at 08:31 | |
something interesting Bob raised yesterday... the possibility of Bernie getting fed up with his perceived unfair treatment at the hands of Democratic Party. He is not a Democat per se.. so little loyalty to the party. So what if he did run.
Senator Warren? Never would be his running mate but she'd likely be a huge player. The interesting thing.. look back on the last two 3rd party splits. Both doomed the party to lose. Perot for Bush Classic, Nader for Gore. At first thought one might think that a Bernie run would doom Hillary. I'm not so sure about that. Going back x amount of years... elections may not have been close in the E.C but generally were in the popular vote. As has been well documented.. the core, and then some, of his support is of the young and idealistic. Problem is.. and has been.. those voters simply don't vote to the degree that other demographics have in previous elections. Hillay's core support is among older voters.. pragmatics.. realists if you will. Those that understand how important this election is to win. The vote is as much against the GOP as it is for Hillary. so Bernie has energized the youth that may not have voted.. while they might have provided a significant boost to Hillary.. and still may.. the lack of their support? A Democratic split? Would that be fatal. I would say it might not. Enter the forementioned Senator Warren. I think a Bernie 3rd party run would force her to become more front and center in the Presidential contest, whereas now she is working hard behind the scenes to gain the Senate for the Democrats. She would surely see..as many of us .. that true disaster is losing the White House to the GOP and with a lunatic at the helm. There would go any chance of even starting down the long road of the meaningful economic change that Bernie and Elizabeth passionately want, but would also be a disaster socially as the GOP would start reversing, so quickly it the effort might hit Obama in the ass as he leaves the door, the 8 years of positive change we have had on trying to overcome this nations latent propensity towards division, bigotry and discrimination. so in short. Warren would be forced to step forward and support Hillary. That might well wake up some of the core supporter of Bernie to vote responsibly...that sometimes it isn't as important who wins as it is who does NOT win. If Bernie did run 3rd party those factors.. plus the whole dynamic of GOP support for Trump and his complete alienation of large segments of the voter populations means she likely has a far greater chance to survive a 3rd party split than either Bush or Gore. Interesting to see what happens. Edited by micky - May 14 2016 at 08:33 |
||
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1 1819202122 146> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |