Prog vs Classical

EugeneK wrote: Unfortunately classical music easily wins this contest, not because I like classical music more, but because its objectively, more sophisticated and intellectual. For example, take compositions for the piano of Rachmaninov or Chopin. These compositions are many times more technically proficient than the best Emerson or Wakeman keyboard songs. The number of instruments in a standard classical symphony is several times bigger than in the usual 4 musicians prog band, and the interweaving between these instruments is more complex. However prog has some advantages(its generally freer, and more innovative), yet the loss of such virtuosity skills as with Paganini on the violin, or Rachmaninov on the keyboard, makes me wonder. Aren't we now in the medieval age of music?

This is the exact thread I wanted to start but didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

I've listened to classical and jazz since around 1980. Only a few months ago did I discover the term progressive rock (prog); yet, I am finding that I've heard more of it than I ever realized. And I'm determined to go further in depth.

I tip my hat to all proggers who are creating or attempting to create worthwhile art. However, I have found that "classical" music - especially the music of the 19th and 20th century - offers a spiritual and emotional depth absent in prog. I'm speaking for myself and no one else.

Do prog bands incorporate elements of classical music? Of course, and by doing so, they acknowledge the beauty present in the musical achievements of western culture.

Is prog as objectively complex as classical music? As a trumpet player, I have practiced and performed all types of music, even jazz-rock, fusion, or whatever you'd like to call it. I've studied music theory for two years in college before changing my major from music to philosophy. Classical music is without a doubt more difficult to compose, perform, analyze, AND experience than prog in general.

I've played all types of popular music - rock, pop, R&B, even country,(believe it or not). Some of this music was challenging, but I have yet to find any piece of popular music as difficult as say a baroque piece written for trumpet, for instance, or the Hindemith Sonata for Trumpet.  There really isn't any comparison. This conclusion isn't based on a subjective whim but objective reality!

I would argue that it is in "classical" music that we find some of the most "progressive" composers. The 19th and 20th centuries stand out for me personally; have a listen to the compositions of Stravinsky, Holst, Bartok, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Ligeti, Cage, Ives, Roy Harris, etc.....just the tip of the iceberg.

Just one more step.....jazz obviously was the rock n roll of the day during the earlier part of the 20th century. It was based on the music of the people - not the elite class. Yet, jazz developed and became more complex as musicians began experimentation. In a matter of decades, we went from the spirituals, ragtimes, and the blues to swing, bop, post-bop, and even free jazz. As it developed and evolved - PROGRESSED?- the music alienated many listeners. How many people sit down to listen to the likes of Parker, Coltrane, or even today's Wynton Marsalis? Lord knows they've never heard of Ornette Coleman.

Point is that we find jazz going from popular music to what many consider as ART on the same level as classical music. (We had fusion going on there too...classical/jazz fusion, very interesting stuff.)

Question is.....does prog do the same? Has the prog movement brought rock out of the darkness of commercialism? Is it as complex as classical and jazz...obviously not. But is it art......that's the question I'm seeking to answer for myself.

I guess we have to arrive at a definition of what constitutes art in the first place.....and defining what true art is happens to be one hell of a task.

At any rate, classical music AND jazz win out every day over prog, but I still enjoy what I'm listening to.  ( Sorry so long)

Is prog as objectively complex as classical music? As a trumpet player, I have practiced and performed all types of music, even jazz-rock, fusion, or whatever you'd like to call it. I've studied music theory for two years in college before changing my major from music to philosophy. Classical music is without a doubt more difficult to compose, perform, analyze, AND experience than prog in general.

I agree with you bmorgan 100%, as a guitar player who performed in four rock bands (one prog) & studied music theory for years. I've studied and tried to play some music from Bach, Beethoven, Paganini & Vivaldi, and believe me it's not an easy task. Jazz is also very interesting to study and perform.

boo boo wrote: i respect the principles of classical music...though i can easly get bored with it, depending on the style, bach is too routine for my taste...im more into schoenberg, stravinsky and stuff along those lines...and gershwin for fusing classical music with jazz...anyway i like prog more, because it takes those same principles and fuses them into a rock setting, making it more accesible for my taste.

Gershwin...da man!!!!

Doesn't get much better, IMHO !!!!! Yet, Berstein can be very jazzy himself.

bmorgan wrote: boo boo wrote: i respect the principles of classical music...though i can easly get bored with it, depending on the style, bach is too routine for my taste...im more into schoenberg, stravinsky and stuff along those lines...and gershwin for fusing classical music with jazz...anyway i like prog more, because it takes those same principles and fuses them into a rock setting, making it more accesible for my taste. Gershwin...da man!!!! Doesn't get much better, IMHO !!!!! Yet, Berstein can be very jazzy himself.

 In another thread, I called Rhapsody In Blue the first prog epic ... not completely accurate, but it was quite progressive at the time. It fused classical music with the popular non-classical music of the time (Jazz).

Valarius wrote: I'd definately go with Prog, however, I really like Classical music, but consider it more as a background music.

BACKGROUND MUSIC????

HERETIC......OFF WITH HIS HEAD

just kidding

I can't believe some people make "contests" like this one. Sounds like another cheap TV show !!!

Progressive Rock was nailed by intellectual music critics in the seventies because they thought it was being pretentious... and this led to its downfall and the rise of Punk. So don't show the critics they were right !  

Progressive Rock has the word Rock. Don't forget it.

As for bands like Univers Zéro. I like to think that "Rock" doesn't necesserily mean a four men band with guitar, bass, drums and keys... this is where 'Progressive" comes in.

In my humble opinion of course.

Snow Dog wrote: Prog obviously wins!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why we are here isn't it? If we prefered Classical we'd be on the Clas archives!

For me it does, but only because I don't know many classical composers.

I like Stravinski, Tsjaikofski, Mozart, and some others very much.

However the best ballet-music is still 'Le Sacre du printemps' no prog can ever really compete with that if you'd ask me, which with this thread they did.

List of favourite classical compositions.

1. Le Sacre Du Printemps (Stravinski)
2. Firebird Suite (Stravinski)
3. Eroica (Beethoven)
4. Le Quatro Stagioni (Vivaldi)
5. Fifth Symphony (Beethoven)
6. Don Giovanni (Mozart)
7. 1812 (Tchaikovski)

don't know many more, I ussualy only listen to the overtures, or excerpts from symphonies and opera's, but I'm sure there are many more classical masterpieces to be discovered.

Annie way anyone know the classical counterpart to progarchives.

classicalarchives

bmorgan wrote: Valarius wrote: I'd definately go with Prog, however, I really like Classical music, but consider it more as a background music. BACKGROUND MUSIC???? HERETIC......OFF WITH HIS HEAD just kidding

Why kidding? I really think he should be tortured with a recording of LaBrie singing The Spice Girls Greatest Hits (over and over again)