Do you hate certain prog because of popularity?

WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote: Ever since I've joined the PA boards, I've noticed some posters who will hate certain progressive rock songs/albums just because they happen to be popular among the majority of rock/progressive rock fans. For example, one poster made fun of me because I recently bought some albums that he deemed "cliche". FYI, those albums were Soft Machine's first 5 albums, Caravan's 2nd and 3rd albums, and ELP's first. I haven't heard those albums before, so why would it be bad to listen to them, just because they are popular? Maybe they are popular for a reason (i.e. they have great music on them!)? Just because an album is "cliche", does that mean I should never listen to it? And just cuz I bought those albums right now, doesn't mean I'm not going to get to the more obscure/underrated albums released by those artists later. Anyway, that's besides the point. I just have never understood why some progressive rock fans refuse to like popular/highly rated songs/albums just because they are popular. Whether a song/album is popular, or totally obscure... all that really matters is if the music is good. Am I wrong? I happen to think that "Close to the Edge", "Karn Evil 9", "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and "Starless" are among the best songs I've ever heard... and that Third, ITCOTCK, CTTE, Nursery Chryme and Pawn Hearts are among the best albums I've ever heard. But I also love many more obscure progressive rock songs/albums. Does that make me a bad progressive rock fan? Do you consider yourself a progressive rock fan that only likes/listens to obscure progressive rock and hates any of it that is popular or highly rated? If so, why?

I don't think the stated reason some people dislike popular prog is because of its popularity. For many, bands like Genesis, Yes etc, are simply not experimental enough, and are therefore less deserving of a prog tag.

At the end of the day, there is no such thing as a good or bad music, there is only music you do like and music you don't like. Don't let the opinions of others get to you.

lazland wrote: This, in spades. I respect everyone's right to like or dislike a piece of work, but I will never understand the attitude that because it was/is popular, it is somehow bad. It isn't.

Edited by Henry Plainview - January 27 2011 at 04:31

No! If you'll pardon the pun, "I know what I like" and it doesn't matter to me who does or doesn't like it. I've no problem with popularity, if the music appeals to me, but as someone else mentioned, some bands get over exposed in these here parts, which can lead to a sub concious loathing of an artist for no other reason than they get talked about too much. All those albums you mentioned are excellent and are well worth checking out by all Prog fans, but there is a small snobbery factor going on here, the more obscure the band the better they must be...apparantly...? Its basically one-upmanship gone mad....but having said sometimes the obscure is better

Popularity! What is popular anyway? I mean bands who would seem to be popular, Porcupine Tree, Transatlantic, Opeth etc I don't know anybody outsde this forum who has even heard of them, never mind being able to critique their music!

Snow Dog wrote: JJLehto wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: No.  Certain prog is popular because it's bad. My opinion as well. How can you share such a juvenile opinion?

Henry Plainview wrote: Snow Dog wrote: JJLehto wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: No.  Certain prog is popular because it's bad. My opinion as well. How can you share such a juvenile opinion? They're both very clearly joking.

!) Sometimes an artist is very popular, simply because they are broadly recongised to be extremely good at what they do on an artistic level.

2) Sometimes an artist is very popular, simply because what they do conforms to an industry proven formula of what sells to a broad audience.

To be honest, I can't think of any prog bands who achieved popularity through the criteria in point 2. They wouldn't be prog bands if they had. Please don't point out the pop success of Genesis and Yes in the 80's. They were selling lorry loads of albums long before then..

I wouldn't say I dislike some of the more popular prog because it's popular, but I certainly dislike some of the popular stuff. I also tend to take a more negative angle towards stuff that is popular that i don't particularly like, compared to less popular bands, mainly to be a bit of a counterweight to all the overly enthusiastic fans. I find Dream Theater to be hugely overrated, and the same goes for Opeth and PT. I find TAAB to be uninteresting. The popularity of these (and I own albums by all of them) makes me more likely to voice negative opinions about them. If they weren't popular I probably would ignore them completely (like you tend to do with most mediocre stuff).

Another point worth mentioning is that popular bands/songs/albums may tend to be more in the taste of the masses, and not so much for me (I realize that I sound like an elitist snob here). I don't mean that the taste of a lot of people is bad, but experience has taught me that if a random person says "You have to listen to this! It's awesome!", it pretty much never suits me, and the same goes for highly rated stuff on sites like this. There are exceptions to this, and I like some of the higher ranked albums on here, but the argument that popular usually doesn't fit me still stands. I have also discovered after looking at some ratings here that I tend to like the less popular stuff more. Take Pain of Salvation, which is a band I know very well. Their highest rated album (not by a huge margin, but still) is The Perfect Element. To me that is easily their worst album. Two of my favorite albums by them is Road Salt and Scarsick. They are way down at the bottom if you look at the ratings, between 0.5 and 0.85 points below the next album. I'm sure there are more examples of this too.

The conclusion is: I don't really like a lot of the popular stuff, but that's probably more because it doesn't suit my taste rather than because it's popular, though there also is an element of hating the more popular stuff just because it's popular and I don't feel it deserves to be.

ExittheLemming wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: lazland wrote: This, in spades. I respect everyone's right to like or dislike a piece of work, but I will never understand the attitude that because it was/is popular, it is somehow bad. It isn't. Who has said this? We're all arguing against a position that nobody in the discussion is willing to defend! Just like when we complain about pop fans who won't listen to anything besides Top 40 or elitist avant-garde fans who only like constant dissonance or symphonic fans who are close-minded and won't try anything new or prog metal fans who are close minded and only like prog metal or Raga Rock fans for being complete jerks and losers (although that last one is only because it's easy to pick on people who don't exist). Does stating our dislike of a stereotype validate us in some way? This is something that comes up not just here but fairly frequently on the internet generally (less charitable communities call their version of this behavior a "circlejerk") and I find it baffling. Also, Watcher, I didn't see the post you refer to in the OP, but I am 99% sure that poster was joking when he called your choices cliche. Or perhaps he was annoyed that you were adding a post in the recent purchases thread when someone on this site buying ELP and Caravan is not exactly revelatory. I don't know, I'd have to see the post and who made it to read any intent into it without guessing, but you're not going to find any serious opposition to listening to well-regarded albums of a certain genre before trying to find the obscure stuff.  Henry's right, such is the way the proposition is framed, arguing against it would be tantamount to a troll self incriminating themselves.

Edited by hobocamp - January 27 2011 at 08:27

Prog Geo wrote: Generally popularity bothers me!(especially in music)So,the answer is yes.But I don't hate certain prog.I usually don't choose to hear it.

I'm guessing you at least give it a chance before deciding not to hear it again?

progkidjoel wrote: stonebeard wrote: Anyone who hates highly rated stuff just for that reason is a hipster and we should shun them.

Xanatos wrote: Only hipsters will tend to hate a band just because of his popularity

zravkapt wrote: And hipsters will like a band for no other reason than they are *not* popular.

Is this the defintion of the hipster? Because by this logic a vast number of proggers are pure hipsters. Just hear them talking about mainstream music and tastes.

I thought the hipster is the person who thinks that certain slightly unconventional mainstream music he likes is the best, most exquisite and avantgarde music ever. Like indie-rock, which is just a subsection of pop culture. Whenever I mention an indie and highly popular band that I like, I get called a hipster So one of these two definitions must be wrong, they pretty much contradict each other.