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The T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 15:54
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Shouldn't he get the same chance as any other band? Added to a chart, voted upon by genre-team members, and rejected or approved??
 


But the suggestion was for prog-related - from what I understand, it doesn't work the same way as suggestions for the actual prog subs...micky explained this to me once, perhaps he can shed some light once again...
 
Er.. well... ..... .... Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 16:35
They don't use the progfreak team charts for one thing.

I haven't heard any Sting solo compositions that would make me think he was suitable for Prog Related.  What would be his most progressive and experimental material?  I don't know his solo music well.

When I think about whether an artist is prog-related, I like to think about which prog subs that artist/ band has the most in common with, and which bands/ artists in the archives it has the most in common with in terms of compositional approach (an obvious approach to take).  In the case of Sting, we know he would have the most in common with those in Xover (at least becuase he has the pop element, but that's not the progressive part of the equation), but it's better to think of core progressive movements, say psych, krautrock,  jazz-rock, Canterbury, symph, experimental/ avant etc (noting that there can be overlap).

I'd appreciate it if links to his proggiest music were made available (may be ones on myspace and youtube).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 16:58
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Would Stink garner the same support if the Police had been a prog band ?


I believe that's pronounced Stin g. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 16:58
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

FWIW, I do find it interesting that Micky, who is on the Crossover prog team which is probably the closest in relation to where Sting might fit in, if he were to fit in, says that consideration is worth serious discussion, where as the two prog metal guys both weigh in and immediately dismiss him, given that that category may be the furthest away in sound to Sting.  That being said, I failed to mention in my previous post that although the thought of him being included on PA did cross my mind, I figured it was too much of a longshot to even mention.  Although some of his music might definitely apply, like the most controversial cases, he is too well known as a non-prog artist to ever get serious consideration (and probably for that matter, deserve serious consideration). 


I know his music *very* well ... please don't think that just because I'm on the prog metal team that's the only genre I know something about.Approve
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 17:06
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:



I'd appreciate it if links to his proggiest music were made available (may be ones on myspace and youtube).



http://www.myspace.com/theofficialsting

Listen to Mad About You, that sums it up pretty well. On the later albums in the 90s he added more Jazz/World influences, and in the 2000s he re-approached mainstream again.

http://www.last.fm/music/Sting

Some more really cool songs. Smile

EDIT: Found a really cool video at last.fm:

http://www.last.fm/music/Sting/+videos/5487209

Seven Days, a really cool track because it reminds of the Police a lot, but it's 5/8 time signature shows that he was eager to experiment and try out new things ... plus you can see in the video that it was a really cool bunch of musicians!


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 04 2008 at 17:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 17:32
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

FWIW, I do find it interesting that Micky, who is on the Crossover prog team which is probably the closest in relation to where Sting might fit in, if he were to fit in, says that consideration is worth serious discussion, where as the two prog metal guys both weigh in and immediately dismiss him, given that that category may be the furthest away in sound to Sting.  That being said, I failed to mention in my previous post that although the thought of him being included on PA did cross my mind, I figured it was too much of a longshot to even mention.  Although some of his music might definitely apply, like the most controversial cases, he is too well known as a non-prog artist to ever get serious consideration (and probably for that matter, deserve serious consideration). 


I know his music *very* well ... please don't think that just because I'm on the prog metal team that's the only genre I know something about.Approve
 
Sorry Mike.  It wasn't my intention to state that you or Jody only know metal, but I see how what I typed could be interpreted that way.  Embarrassed Obviously, spending the time I do on your site I am well aware that you are familiar with a wide spectrum of genres.  But I do observe that it is metal that seems to be nearest and dearest to your heart, or at least to your ears, and as a general rule, I think that Sting fans and metal fans are somewhat mutually exclusive, although as with anything there is going to be some overlap in fans.  Me being an example, although not so much with the extreme metals, and as you have made clear you also are an exception to my generalization.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 17:38
Thanks Mike.  Listening now.  I guess primarily it would be his fusion of music styles/ influences.  Even "Mad about You" (good song I vaguely remember) is not that Prog to my ear, though proggish in a way.  Good to hear "Fortress Around You" -- haven't heard it in years; used to love that song.  If he were considerably proggier, he'd be in an art rock category.  I guess one could somewhat relate him to bands in the archives such as Supertramp.  I think he has more to do with, I'll call it "progressive pop rock" than "progressive rock" so not that suitable.

Re Rushfan4's post -- of course metal fans often like non-metal music, but he brings up something that I've wondered about.  That when it comes to evaluation, whether one knows an artist or not, how much one's experience with evaluating music for a certian category (and subcategories) will affect one's perception as to what is related.  I was thinking about this recently in regards to Laurie Anderson.  Ivan remarked on the lack of complexity of her music, and seemed to intimate that that wa s reason for her not being included; whereas her minimalist approach is one reason why I associated her with prog (Ivan may be drawing on his experience with the symph team more; whereas, I'm thinking more of minimalist electronic, experimental, and krautrock compositions -- I wanted Glass in, though clearly short on rock).  It helps if one is familar with and likes music from all of the progressive catefories in some cases, as certian biases can creep in that don't take ino account the wider progressive music picture.

Since Sting is closest to the Crossover category (but not right for it), in a way it wouldn't be suprising if there was more sympathy for the addition to PR than in other quarters.  It's a reason why i wish we had multi-tagging for PR bands/ artists, to better clearly see the realtion to the Prog categories, but as I said, I think one needs to think of core prog categories (I don't mean having Xover as a tag, but, well I got into that in my last post).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 19:08
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Would Stink garner the same support if the Police had been a prog band ?


I believe that's pronounced Stin g. Tongue

Oops, what was I thinging Wink
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 19:08
Originally posted by NaturalScience NaturalScience wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Shouldn't he get the same chance as any other band? Added to a chart, voted upon by genre-team members, and rejected or approved??
 


But the suggestion was for prog-related - from what I understand, it doesn't work the same way as suggestions for the actual prog subs...micky explained this to me once, perhaps he can shed some light once again...
 
In a nutshell,the admin team are the final say on proto and prog releated additions.They aren't considered by any genre specialist team.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 19:16
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Would Stink garner the same support if the Police had been a prog band ?


I believe that's pronounced Stin g. Tongue

Oops, what was I thinging Wink

Hey, can we get the Eagles in ? Journey of the Sorcerer ended up as the theme song for the BBC's "the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy; Desperado & Hotel California were concept albums, with HC having two lengthy opuses bookending the album - Hotel California & The Last Resort, both over 6 minutes timewise. Even the 2nd disc of new album starts off with a 10:15 minute song - Long Road out of Eden.

"starts chronometer to see how long before someone realizes the very thought of the Eagles' inclusion at PA is meant as a joke. though the music is not, and stands among the best out there."
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 19:36
I've always thought of you admin guys as the Proto-Prog and Prog Related specialist team (then you have your other specialist teams), but of course both categories don't cover any one genre or subgenre, so of course you guys have very good knowledge of music from all the categories here, as well as a stronger understanding of the history of progressive music than most collabs.  I've also figured that you must do a lot more research than other teams, because it's often harder to let the music speak for itself, and must consider historical implications, and I know you people weigh up the opinions of posters.  Anyway, I believe the admin were chosen to head up those teams, which work more behind closed-doors than others, because it can be very controversial (and an easier place for Max to coordinate) and they also weigh up the appearance of an addition, as well as the merits of an addition.  Is it beneficial to the site?  Will it bring in more people, or turn more people off?  As what's let in, and what's not, can be controversial, it takes the most level-headed and thick-skinned of people.

Edited by Logan - August 04 2008 at 19:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2008 at 20:30
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

I was blind-sided by the Gabriel/Sting connection via their affinity for world music. Is it possible that Ol' Pete had an advantage in coming from Prog Gods Genesis ? Would Stink garner the same support if the Police had been a prog band ?
I leave the thinking to you.
hmmm, didn't work too well for Phil Collins. Stern%20Smile
 
Although the background of an artist has some bearing on their inclusion into the PR category, it is the music produced that counts in the final analysis.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 03:05
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

FWIW, I do find it interesting that Micky, who is on the Crossover prog team which is probably the closest in relation to where Sting might fit in, if he were to fit in, says that consideration is worth serious discussion, where as the two prog metal guys both weigh in and immediately dismiss him, given that that category may be the furthest away in sound to Sting.  That being said, I failed to mention in my previous post that although the thought of him being included on PA did cross my mind, I figured it was too much of a longshot to even mention.  Although some of his music might definitely apply, like the most controversial cases, he is too well known as a non-prog artist to ever get serious consideration (and probably for that matter, deserve serious consideration). 


now that was a chore hahha... picking one post ..out of a thread of interesting ones to reply to.... yours though raises something interesting..so I'll pick on yours. LOL

first off... let me clarify my thoughts to those who are thinking Satan himself has descended upon the archives....   Sting does merit consideration...   musically.. and as all of you know.. I don't give a rats-ass about tags and labels.. if all we care about are tags... we can fire all the collabs here since any ape can do the job genre team members can do.  We LISTEN to the music.. and THEN evaluate it. Sting's solo output has little to nothing in common with the Police... and in fact.. as some members have noted... it similar enough to artists who ARE included here to merit discussion.  When the Xover team makes a decision.. we listen first.. and not let prejudices or pre-concieved notions get in the way.  Maybe some day we will look at Sting.. as for myself...  and I suspect the other team members... we have other fish to fry. If we though he was a such glaring omission... he would have been brought up by now.


Now Scott... you touched upon something I found rather interesting but taking a different and impersonal angle on it...  see... for some here....  prog metal is oxymoron...   yet agree or not that what is prog metal is really prog or not... we trust and accept ... and support those team members who work hard for their sub.  On the other side of the spectrum... their exists a subgenre here in the same exact postion.  Crossover prog.. .or for those who need a more precise exaplanation of it...  prog pop.   Yes...  like prog metal.. we have people wandering around here who foam at the mouth saying the twain shall not meet.... ahhh... but they have.. they did back in the golden days with such groups as the Moodies.. who in fact the sub was created for since they were the odd man out and really could only be described in such terms accurately. However this isn't the place for the history lesson...  the fact is....  whether you agree with prog metal or not... it is here.. and I for one have always supported that team and it's decisions.. even if sometimes I must admit I have no clue as to what it is... or what they are doing.  On the other side of the prog spectrum we have Xover.. or prog pop... whatever you want to call it.  Whether you agree with it or not.. it is here... and there is a team.. not just me.. or even just  Dean and myself..  that take our jobs seriously and try to make additions with the site in mind.  PM and Xover share a common problem.. or difficulty if you will.. lots of people running around with their own ideas of what that sub... or is not...  some who think is doesn't even exist or make sense. 

Sting if... or when he is evaluated... will be evaluated on his musical output... not a f**king name that some of you know... some more than the music itself since he is 'famous'.  I expect that whatever decision that team comes to... be respected.  Trust me...  we are listening to music.. not voting for favorites.. or conversely.. rejecting artists for their 'tags and labels'

end of rant hahhha


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 03:11
world, electronica, pop, celtic, jazz


no prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:00
Sting can't be prog because my wife likes him, and she hates all prog except "Follow You Follow Me".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:05
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Sting can't be prog because my wife likes him, and she hates all prog except "Follow You Follow Me".


I see that you apply the same "prog test" that I do.  Confused

And don't bother with the silly joke, "You ask chopper's wife if she likes it?", I've beat you all to it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:23
Well it may have seemed like a silly comment but you only have to look at my wife's CD collection to know that anything in it cannot be classed as prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:29
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

she hates all prog except "Follow You Follow Me".


Or to put it another way, she hates all prog.

Wink


Edited by NaturalScience - August 05 2008 at 11:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:30
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Well it may have seemed like a silly comment but you only have to look at my wife's CD collection to know that anything in it cannot be classed as prog.


Didn't mean your comment was silly, just didn't want people making an obvious joke.

All of my wife's CDs are the same, miles away from prog.  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2008 at 11:48
we don't use life-partner's record collections as a gauge of Prog-worthiness either. Stern%20Smile
 
 
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