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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 27958 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2020 at 00:59
^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.

In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time.

I fully agree with all you wrote. 

Also, I want to add that I find all other "UK" albums to be terribly disappointing--both on their own (i.e. if the UK album never existed) and in comparison to the peak achievement of the debut.

I haven't even made it all the way through Danger Money. It just makes me want to listen to the debut instead LOL.
 

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Exceptional record.   Danger Money has a better production but the content is about equal on both.


I've yet to give this one as fair a listen!

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

... What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge?
 

Jeez, man! That was 40 years ago! Sorry, I cannot remember...

SO YOU'RE LYING THEN!!! LOLWink

I'm just joking. I love the area and know it very well, hence my fan boi ism. It was probably a club that was finished before I came around in '88! Tongue

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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile



Yes..they should have added Hendrix.

Wink
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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I love the first LP, they were all in top form.  I saw them live at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, July 17, 1978.  It was the first time I saw Holdsworth, whom I only heard a few times on some Gong LPs.  

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.  

Wetton was in top form that night, it was always amazing to watch him sing AND play bass as fast as he could!!  RIP John.   

The entire band smoked as hard as the non-stop cigarette jammed into Holdsworth's guitar neck!  You had to see that to understand!
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Points: 11565 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2020 at 14:07
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile




Yes..they should have added Hendrix.

Wink


Yeah, I guess if that Hendrix thing had actually happened, he might have been a good fit for the band... in a different way than we ever got to know. Also, I remember reading that Emerson always wanted a keyboard driven band for ELP, but if he had wanted a guiter player, it would have been Howe, which I also think might have worked rather nicely (but I prefer he was part of Yes). But yeah, now that you mention it, Holdsworth might have been even a better choice for them.
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Points: 5538 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2020 at 00:59
Hard to imagine Hendrix & Emerson would have been in the same band. The first has so great style of what´s sounding great and the other...I believe Holdsworth would have been better choice, but then I believe I would have liked ELP at all. But that´s would be just me, I believe there would have been many others who had been in heaven.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.

Allen had a temper.  I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having.  I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.  

Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible.  I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist.
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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.

Allen had a temper.  I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having.  I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.  

Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible.  I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist.

I've read Holdsworth got hot regarding having to play the same notes the same way. I don't blame him honestly. His magic is his magic. Even Bruford said he could "just tell" when Allen was tracking that Dead of Night solo that was the take he'd use. Pure magic.

My theory is the best bands will always, always have the most unstable chemistry. You get crazy sh*t short term; often better than most bands' entire catalogs...but that's it. In fact, that pattern is prevalent a lot in art. One and done, but the best of the best in the process IMHO!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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UK UK ook ook Tongue Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind.  They pair very well.
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Points: 7264 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2020 at 12:59
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

UK UK ook ook Tongue Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind.  They pair very well.

I was very glad to have seen both bands in concert, UK on July 17, 1978 and Bruford on July 5, 1980.   Your comment is very valid!  

Bruford's band featured a former guitar student of Holdsworth, "The Amazing" John Clarke.  He truly was excellent, and I wish he had replaced Allen in UK, as there would likely have been less fireworks and the subsequent albums would have been more like the debut. 

Bill's bassist was the amazing Jeff Berlin, who isn't mentioned much on PA.  The guy was a very decent vocalist and amazing bassist!  
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Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!

Yeah, not many players could have pulled that off! 

I saw ABWH with Tony and have spoken with friends who saw Jeff Berlin sub, they raved about him!  It was a GREAT show!! 
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^ Having heard already both the original An Evening of Yes Music by ABWH (with Jeff Berlin) and Live at the NEC (with Tony Levin), I believe I do slightly prefer the sound Tony achived... it kind of had a more personal touch, it did sound sort of more special. Yet, perhaps a highlight for me is Heart of the Sunrise, which even though I do like the original, it has never been one of my very favourites... yet the version on An Evening of Yes Music is my very favourite version of the song, even above the one with Tony Levin on bass.
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Danger Money connects more with me personally but it would have been interesting indeed had they been able to keep the debut album lineup together 
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Jeff's a virtuoso. He subbed for Tony Levin when I saw ABWH at the Greek Theatre!

Yeah, not many players could have pulled that off! 

I saw ABWH with Tony and have spoken with friends who saw Jeff Berlin sub, they raved about him!  It was a GREAT show!! 
 

The ABWH show was amazing. It was my first time seeing "Yes" live! Wakeman blew me away.
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^ I saw that ABWH show. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd after Tony got sick & Jeff had to step in. 
 I didn't know who was playing bass I just knew it wasn't Tony Levin because he had hair! LOL
I found out later it was Jeff Berlin. 
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Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

^ I saw that ABWH show. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd after Tony got sick & Jeff had to step in. 
 I didn't know who was playing bass I just knew it wasn't Tony Levin because he had hair! LOL
I found out later it was Jeff Berlin. 
 

You were at the Greek Theatre??!!
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The outro in 'By the light of day' is just phenomenal. Gives me chills every time.
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Perfect in every way. I cannot express how much I love this. The playing of Holdsworth is just beyond human. Incredible. 
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