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Topic ClosedEvolution vs. Creationism
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Poll Question: What represents your opinion best?
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jampa17 View Drop Down
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:48
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

So that begs the question "Well what part of God / Divinity can you say you do understand?"


I certainly can't say. I could be looking at god now and never know. If I would say anything now, it couldn't be anything but conjecture.

Plus, without a definition, we have no idea what to look for or how we'll recognize it when we see it.
 
there's where faith takes places you see... that's why Theist take faith as their guide... because I cannot assure you nothing but my believes and my experience trhough my lifetime... but you want definition or "real" or "confirmed" definitions about God... things that should not happen because if we find a proof about God... then faith don't serve to nothing an all the deniers become into believers and there's nothing to search and understand for... all your post go in a way that comes close to anarchy... "as we are not sure of anything... I don't believe in anything..." I -and many believers- go in the exactly opposite... "as we are not sure of anything, I believe it and hope I'm true"... but I'm sure you won't get it either...


You believe what you're taught without questioning it, while scientists question anything they're taught. That's the key difference.
 
yes, that's the key difference and is what all of us were talking to you pages ago... that you wanted proof and we don't.... we exactly the opposite... we don't want the proof... so... we agreed in one thing...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:51
No Mike you still don't get it.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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jampa17 View Drop Down
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:52
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

So that begs the question "Well what part of God / Divinity can you say you do understand?"


I certainly can't say. I could be looking at god now and never know. If I would say anything now, it couldn't be anything but conjecture.

Plus, without a definition, we have no idea what to look for or how we'll recognize it when we see it.
 
there's where faith takes places you see... that's why Theist take faith as their guide... because I cannot assure you nothing but my believes and my experience trhough my lifetime... but you want definition or "real" or "confirmed" definitions about God... things that should not happen because if we find a proof about God... then faith don't serve to nothing an all the deniers become into believers and there's nothing to search and understand for... all your post go in a way that comes close to anarchy... "as we are not sure of anything... I don't believe in anything..." I -and many believers- go in the exactly opposite... "as we are not sure of anything, I believe it and hope I'm true"... but I'm sure you won't get it either...


That's really hard to understand with all the ellipses. I'm sorry.

"and there's nothing to search and understand for"

Nah, you can still uncover things about the universe. Tons of things. Never everything.
 
You are using relativist points of view... and miss the whole point... I wonder what you believe if you see the son of God flying down in the sky... I wonder really what will you think about it...??? you will believe then...??? that's nice... all that you believe all your life if fake but you change of bus on the last minute... that would be nice to see in many of the disbelievers... I hope you can get my sarcasm with all my ellipses... Wink


Edited by jampa17 - December 03 2009 at 14:54
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:54
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

No Mike you still don't get it.


Enlighten me then.Smile
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Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:58
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

 
yes, that's the key difference and is what all of us were talking to you pages ago... that you wanted proof and we don't.... we exactly the opposite... we don't want the proof... so... we agreed in one thing...

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" -  Christopher Hitchens.
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:00
Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

So that begs the question "Well what part of God / Divinity can you say you do understand?"


I certainly can't say. I could be looking at god now and never know. If I would say anything now, it couldn't be anything but conjecture.

Plus, without a definition, we have no idea what to look for or how we'll recognize it when we see it.
 
there's where faith takes places you see... that's why Theist take faith as their guide... because I cannot assure you nothing but my believes and my experience trhough my lifetime... but you want definition or "real" or "confirmed" definitions about God... things that should not happen because if we find a proof about God... then faith don't serve to nothing an all the deniers become into believers and there's nothing to search and understand for... all your post go in a way that comes close to anarchy... "as we are not sure of anything... I don't believe in anything..." I -and many believers- go in the exactly opposite... "as we are not sure of anything, I believe it and hope I'm true"... but I'm sure you won't get it either...


You believe what you're taught without questioning it, while scientists question anything they're taught. That's the key difference.
 
yes, that's the key difference and is what all of us were talking to you pages ago... that you wanted proof and we don't.... we exactly the opposite... we don't want the proof... so... we agreed in one thing...


Speak for yourself.

I must have evidence.  Mike and others just won't be satisfied with the evidence I've been given, largely because it is historical and personal rather than "scientific."

(And, as I've mentioned, biblical faith (pisitis)- not even just biblical faith- but faith as ancient people...Greeks, Romans, Hebrews, etc...understood it is not "blind belief").
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:03
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by jampa17 jampa17 wrote:

 
yes, that's the key difference and is what all of us were talking to you pages ago... that you wanted proof and we don't.... we exactly the opposite... we don't want the proof... so... we agreed in one thing...

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" -  Christopher Hitchens.
 
Yes... that's his concept... and I don't need to be against him either...
 
BTW: love your avatar man...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:09
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

No Mike you still don't get it.


Enlighten me then.Smile
 
Because scientific theory cannot address the subjective, you dismiss anything in that realm. Many traditional religions deal ONLY with the subjective.
 
They are like perpendicular axis, not opposing concepts.
 
You and I will never ever be able to know if we perceive the color red in the same way. That's a subjective reality, a perceptual reality. The wavelength that triggers us most "red" is something that has shared / objective qualities, and science can address.
 
If you negate the sum total of all subjective realities, you're missing a big part of the Universe.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:19
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

No Mike you still don't get it.


Enlighten me then.Smile
 
Because scientific theory cannot address the subjective, you dismiss anything in that realm. Many traditional religions deal ONLY with the subjective.
 
They are like perpendicular axis, not opposing concepts.
 
You and I will never ever be able to know if we perceive the color red in the same way. That's a subjective reality, a perceptual reality. The wavelength that triggers us most "red" is something that has shared / objective qualities, and science can address.
 
If you negate the sum total of all subjective realities, you're missing a big part of the Universe.


There's nothing "subjective" about evolution or natural selection. There is no need for persuasion, or for taking anyone's words for granted. You can examine all the evidence yourself and make up your own mind. Or you can let religious doctrine tell you that it can't be true, and science is an attempt to destroy your religion. If you think that is the case, better remember that the next time you play your electric guitar or use your computer.
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Negoba View Drop Down
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:22
I have never said natural selection was not one of the forces involved in speciation.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Negoba View Drop Down
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:27
What I have repeatedly done is point out the limitations of current theories about speciation, and more importantly the understanding of those common man who uses those concepts as the basis of his understanding of how the Universe works.
 
Which is exactly what you repeatedly are trying to do about Christianity.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:30
^ Hey, Jay! Your post count is 2112!!!

lol, sorry, had to be pointed out . . .

Carry on.
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:32
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

^ Hey, Jay! Your post count is 2112!!!

lol, sorry, had to be pointed out . . .

Carry on.


MY WAYWARD SON

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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:32
^^^ If you don't want to say something specific about the topic, just say so ... 

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - December 03 2009 at 15:32
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Points: 6802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:34
Hey, I think he is just thowing some questions and point out some weak or wholes in our theories to try to makes wonder about our own belives... I think is good... someone have to have that job...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:36
I'm found out - I'm one of the priests of the Temples of Syrinx
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:38
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I'm found out - I'm one of the priests of the Temples of Syrinx


Who cares about your silly whim? It doesn't fit the plan!

Actually . . . that line is much more on topic than I initially thought. See, Mike? I'm contributing. Big smile
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:39
^^^ if you're referring to the theory of Creationism (AKA The Book of Genesis), as far as I'm concerned it only consists of holes and inconsistencies. Dawkins does a great job at explaining them in great detail in The Greatest Show On Earth, there's absolutely no need for me to explain it over and over again here. But the two of us have already established in the other thread that you are not a skeptic - and doesn't the bible - among other things - teach that people should not strive for knowledge?Wink


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - December 03 2009 at 15:39
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2009 at 15:40
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:



Actually . . . that line is much more on topic than I initially thought. See, Mike? I'm contributing. Big smile


Actually I was referring to Negoba's post, not yours.LOL
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^ I see. LOL
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