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Alitare 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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 Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:29 |
I figure that philosophy is a defense mechanism against fear of lack of knowledge. Now we can philosophize about why folks philosophize about philosophers. Meta-metaphilosophy. A necessary weevil. In the immortal words of Tom "Kyle" Petty(bone):
Buy me a Kant, sing me a 'Stotle, take me with my Nietzsche 'cause I got the will to power. Keep the categorical imperative movin' on. Yeah. Pseudo-intellectual harmonica solo, yeah.
What is justice? I think super-rocker-come-thinker-supreme Bruce "Plato" Springsteen said it best with his 'Born in the Republic' album: What is justice? Well it's just dancin' in the dark (by means of systematically expounding the requisites for a perfect society...rock on!)
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:31 |
 Epignosis wrote:
As someone who has a minor in philosophy (I think), let me just say that debating about philosophers is stupid.
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Yea, well, your face.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:41 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
Kant's philosophy is immensely more complex than is Aristotle's. That's like saying your Calculus book is bad because you had a much harder time understanding it than your 3rd grade arithmetic book. |
Actually it's fine to say that. I've read densely written Calculus books and well written books on Alexandrov Spaces. There's a difference between obfuscation on behalf of the subject matter and muddling due to an inability to properly express ideas. I could present you with a book on basic arithmetic that would be incoherent to you, but it would not be a reflection of your math abilities in any way.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:58 |
Epignosis wrote:
As someone who has a minor in philosophy (I think), let me just say that debating about philosophers is stupid.
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As someone who would have gotten a minor in philosophy before I realize it was a nearly worthless degree, I agree.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:01 |
stonebeard wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
As someone who has a minor in philosophy (I think), let me just say that debating about philosophers is stupid.
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As someone who would have gotten a minor in philosophy before I realize it was a nearly worthless degree, I agree. |
As someone who got a minor in philosophy knowing it was worthless, I agree.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:08 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
As someone who has a minor in philosophy (I think), let me just say that debating about philosophers is stupid.
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As someone who would have gotten a minor in philosophy before I realize it was a nearly worthless degree, I agree. |
As someone who got a minor in philosophy knowing it was worthless, I agree.
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It seems we agree to agree. I find this agreeable.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:11 |
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Agreed.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:32 |
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Well in general what Kant was trying to accomplish was a much bigger task than philosophers that came before him. But actually I didn't find him hard to read at all. "The Ethics of Ambiguity" was eye-tearing, tho, but I still liked the message Beauvoir put forth. But anyway, back to topic on hand, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't think of a single philosophy system that would actually support abortion. Take that for what you will.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:34 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
Well in general what Kant was trying to accomplish was a much bigger task than philosophers that came before him. But actually I didn't find him hard to read at all. "The Ethics of Ambiguity" was eye-tearing, tho, but I still liked the message Beauvoir put forth. But anyway, back to topic on hand, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't think of a single philosophy system that would actually support abortion. Take that for what you will. |
You don't think utilitarianism would? Peter Singer?
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:35 |
Padraic wrote:
Deathrabbit wrote:
Well in general what Kant was trying to accomplish was a much bigger task than philosophers that came before him. But actually I didn't find him hard to read at all. "The Ethics of Ambiguity" was eye-tearing, tho, but I still liked the message Beauvoir put forth. But anyway, back to topic on hand, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't think of a single philosophy system that would actually support abortion. Take that for what you will. |
You don't think utilitarianism would? Peter Singer?
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I thought about that, but on a wide scale, no. Maybe on a small scale, Utilitarianism might. But Util is stupid anyway.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2011 at 23:04 |
Utilitarianism certainly could. Rand's philosophy supported abortion. And I don't necessarily agree with your sentiments about the scope of Kant's work.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - November 05 2011 at 23:05
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 06 2011 at 01:39 |
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"Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable
Heidegger,
Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table
David
Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel
And Wittgenstein was a
beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel"
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 01:11 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Utilitarianism certainly could.
Rand's philosophy supported abortion.
And I don't necessarily agree with your sentiments about the scope of Kant's work.
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Rand is so laughably horrible I don't consider her a proper philosopher. The Fountainhead was quite possibly the worst philosophical fiction I've ever read (and I've read Camus so that's saying a lot, but to be fair, Existentialism is a hard idea to communicate)
Really, Kant was quite novel; he was one the first philosophers to attempt to come up with a universal guiding light that didn't somehow involve God or gods. If you want to attack him tho, the best way is prolly to mention the racism. He has a few choice quotes frequently used by Nazi sympathizers, I do believe. Basically, he only believed white European males were capable of rational thought. I'm really surprised you don't like him tho, as I'm pretty sure his body of work supports the precepts of limited government.
Edited by Deathrabbit - November 07 2011 at 01:15
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 08:32 |
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When you can just exclude philosophers you don't agree with, your statement becomes much easier to defend. However, that's not really the case.
I'm happy with my way of attacking Kant.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 11:08 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
When you can just exclude philosophers you don't agree with, your statement becomes much easier to defend. However, that's not really the case.
I'm happy with my way of attacking Kant.
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Do you honestly consider Rand a top tier philosopher?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 11:45 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
When you can just exclude philosophers you don't agree with, your statement becomes much easier to defend. However, that's not really the case.
I'm happy with my way of attacking Kant.
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Do you honestly consider Rand a top tier philosopher?
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No. What does that have to do with it though? The point is that there are plenty of philosophers whose systems would support abortion.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 13:12 |
My favorite philosophers are Bertrand Russell, Aristotle, and Socrates. Maybe Rousseau and Locke if I ever cared to read them. I just find most European thinkers I've read from the Middle Ages until the 1900s to be woefully boring and concerned with minutiae that doesn't really matter. I suppose it doesn't help that a lot of their metaphysics is completely superseded in modern times and they can never justify their morality, so whoops there goes all of philosophy anyway.
And to be honest, I'd take a Carl Sagan or a Neil deGrasse Tyson over any of those guys anyway. They have inspirational, humanist messages with with actual plans for progress and vision for humanity and science. Compared to the middling meaninglessness of most philosophy, this is stuff that matters much more.
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 13:15 |
stonebeard wrote:
My favorite philosophers are Bertrand Russell, Aristotle, and Socrates. Maybe Rousseau and Locke if I ever cared to read them. I just find most European thinkers I've read from the Middle Ages until the 1900s to be woefully boring and concerned with minutiae that doesn't really matter. I suppose it doesn't help that a lot of their metaphysics is completely superseded in modern times and they can never justify their morality, so whoops there goes all of philosophy anyway.
And to be honest, I'd take a Carl Sagan or a Neil deGrasse Tyson over any of those guys anyway. They have inspirational, humanist messages with with actual plans for progress and vision for humanity and science. Compared to the middling meaninglessness of most philosophy, this is stuff that matters much more. |
Actually, I agree with you stone, on that point. Applied philosophy is much more useful than philosophy. EDIT: Prolly can't have one without the other. Just like physics would prolly suffer if there was a lapse in the pure mathematical sciences.
Edited by Deathrabbit - November 07 2011 at 13:24
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 13:25 |
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Russell is weak man. His theory of types makes me scream for its unnecessary complexity.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 07 2011 at 13:25 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
EDIT: Prolly can't have one without the other. Just like physics would prolly suffer if there was a lapse in the pure mathematical sciences.
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Prolly is a real understatement.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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