American Politics the 2016 edition |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 16:34 | |||
it is the culture war man... there is no room in the middle.. spoken as one who mistakenly thought the middle still could win... consider me enlightened. I personally overestimated the rationality of those.. both left and right. Those on the right were going to vote Trump even if she did shoot someone down in the street on live TV.. it would have been spun as the alt facts from the liberal media...
and the left... who cares if it meant elected a completely unfit man with more personality disorders than I have fingers.. Hillary wasn't just too flawed and beholden to Wall Street. So they voted for the dope smoker and the crazy broad.. as I said..it seems the days of rational politics are over forget even about voting for best qualified candidates. If the Democrats move left.. they win.. there are more of us than them.. and sooner or later those poor working class stiffs will learn that democratic policies benefit them.. not the rich business oligarchs and social nuts in the GOP....but if they don't.. all hail Trump for 4 more years haha Edited by micky - February 04 2017 at 16:41 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 17:05 | |||
Well, I do think the constant bashing of third parties is not fully accurate either and seems to be, in my book, a bit of a defense mechanism from people who (not saying this is you but in general) just can't admit outright Clinton lost. First, the commonly accepted theory was Johnson's uptick came from "Never Trump" Republicans. I'd need to see if there's any analysis yet about where Gary voters may have come from, but you'd think his presence actually hindered Trump....as in he would've won bigger without Gary. Im sure some Berners went Gary but I think this # was probably very very small. That's the other thing, Democrats are gunna always cave and go Democrat. The "Bernie or bust" people were likely independents or non voters. Usually third party voters would've not voted at all. What about the 45% of eligible voters who didnt? Just a few of those could've changed everything. What about youth voters that didn't come out for her? We just can't know how exactly how things would've played out. Especially with things so close, it's best for Democrats to just admit: Clinton lost, and third parties really can't be blamed. Indeed it's dangerous to do so. Besides, I need to check Stein's numbers but in PA and WI I'm not sure her vote # was larger than Clinton's loss (in MI it was). It my be that if 100% of Stein voters went for Clinton she would've won but you know this is not the case. No need to beat the horse to death even more but while it may not mean much to you or moderate, the "wall st stuff" is pretty darn important. Ask Cory Booker why he would vote against the will of the people and keep cheaper drugs out of the US? Or why some big name Democrats refused to have the public option, even though people wanted it. Its not just unemployed hippies/crazed idealists angry at rich people. I also think populist rhetoric isn't necessarily bad, I'd say most politics is to some extent. Sanders or Warren would be normal leaders, (who wouldn't try to create a live telling of 1984). They would/will try to do the most they can within the system. Unlike Trump who is governing as a populist. I still say the "Warren wing" is actually very reasonable and sensible, far more than the neoliberal/Clinton wing. We know these policies work over the decades, while centrist/Reagan influenced policies have proven, over the decades, to be a bust. Bernie wasn't the best at explaining things and he IS a politician...he had to drum up stuff about balancing the budget, bringing back jobs etc etc but I know the economists and groups he consults with, I read em and often post them here! He knows that jobs aren't coming back, that we should strengthen labor rights and rebuild our economy here to counter globalization. Note he railed against trade deals but never really said he'd nuke em or renegotiate. And he knows we don't NEED to balance the budget every year and some deficit spending will help us. He knew better, but didn't really say it. Which is a damn shame.
Edited by JJLehto - February 04 2017 at 17:06 |
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Gamemako
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1184 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 19:29 | |||
So of all the things to do on a Saturday, I engaged some anti-immigrant commenter on IGN about that whole Swedish rape thing. It reminded me of a study I didn't post here previously, but which which might be an interesting read for those concerned with the migrant crisis and its economic effects. It is specifically about Germany' refugee resettlement, but it can likely be applied broadly.
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Hail Eris!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 20:12 | |||
That's Jon Camp, the bassist of Renaissance.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 21:14 | |||
Jon Camp, really? I'd never have thought that. Of course, the pictures I've seen of him are all decades old now. Fantastic bass player.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 21:57 | |||
Trump was speaking with Bill O Reilly and said Putin is morally equal with the US. O Reilly responds "but he's a killer" to which Trump replies "There are a lot of killers. You think our country is so innocent?"
OK....I'm actually a good bit perplexed over this. Is this simply more defense of Putin in his usual style "Yeah well we're not better so whatever" or a shockingly honest appraisal? As we all know, the US is indeed far from innocent but to hear it said and from a Republican of all....is mind boggling. Now I don't like his continued praise of Putin, but Trump continues to be such a basket case: Saying one of the most honestly true things about the US I've heard, but then wants to continue his very active foreign policy This guy
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: February 04 2017 at 22:51 | |||
In fact, it's neither though he does look like Camp. It's Ry Cooder. I just opened the image in another tab and found the name.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: February 05 2017 at 02:15 | |||
as to the Swedish rape cases: it is not as simple as "more immigrants, more rapes". this article sheds some light on the problem:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/11/are-migrants-really-raping-swedish-women.html |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: February 05 2017 at 05:54 | |||
The often alleged connection between ethnicity and rape, in
Sweden and in other countries, has now become a subject of intense propaganda for
both sides, not to forget that it sells by the bucketload for a frenzied media. Sex and violence, every journalist's wet dream (literally). Edited by npjnpj - February 05 2017 at 06:03 |
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Tillerman88
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 31 2015 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 495 |
Posted: February 05 2017 at 08:10 | |||
I strongly second your thoughts. And , further speaking, especially on cases of sexual violence like these we are discussing, I reckon the solution is beyond the educational level.
Edited by Tillerman88 - February 05 2017 at 08:36 |
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 51451 |
Posted: February 06 2017 at 06:50 | |||
I find this bizarre too. It seems mostly ego-driven, but the GOP is likely to use this as an excuse to push voter suppression. Journalist Greg Palast actually thinks the 2016 election was stolen by the GOP on voter suppression alone though purging and not having enough polling places in predominantly African American districts.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: February 06 2017 at 14:17 | |||
This may or may not include racism, but racism is never far from being a contributing factor. When Obama was elected President it was a chance for a group of Americans for the first time in history to vote for a member of their own race. A race that has never been included as part of the mythological American dream. A race of people of which the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty was never directed at them, as if the Statue was purposefully turned with their back against them. A race never welcomed to become part of the national melting, to pursue the suburban white picket fence with approved mortgages that would let them advance and live in the neighborhoods of later immigrants that came of their own free will instead of by force. Later immigrants that never wanted them within 10 miles of their own American dream homes. So, we have record numbers of African American voters that for once can vote for one of their own. They do and he wins. But it's a hallow victory, as the President they elected, aside form a few social improvements such as trying to reverse the lopsided black prison population and it's subsequent continual repopulation from those that have been released, is not (justly or unjustly) the President of African Americans. He's done nothing to turn the tide against police killings, broaden educational opportunities for blacks, get blacks employed, stop voter discrimination at them, etc., etc., etc. Meet the new the boss. Same as the old boss. And it will be a cold day in hell before African Americans think twice about voting for another African American president, let alone anyone, white, black, brown, male or female, that is part of the Democratic party. Now on the flipside of this apathy is the rejuvenated Republican party whose platform is based on hated and discrimination of the other. The Mexican or other Latino immigrants, and the the Muslim immigrants. Those with or without an ideology, but who like the group I described above, are not part of the American dream, and who also see Miss Liberty as turning her back to them. One group I've mentioned could care less about the Democratic party and the other is designed to do all it's power to eviscerate it. And people like you will continue to look at stats and rationalizations and never comprehend the truth. And, sadly, many will suffer because of it along with the ones that are suffering now.
Edited by SteveG - February 06 2017 at 14:32 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 06 2017 at 18:12 | |||
I've heard that theory as well, and I would not be surprised at all if that was the true plan. I can't say definitively yes or no on the second part, but I will say it's not anything new. The GOP deployed the tactic in FL 2000, OH 2004 (though less discussed) and red states have generally taken a knife to voting rights and started gutting away, especially since part of the Voting Rights Act was not upheld. I've heard newly red states like NC and WI have been guilty in the matter, and it does feel ooky that those states went red despite all the polling. I still dont blame that, I personally didn't expect NC to go Clinton and the WI loss was so tight a plethora of factors pop up. BUT one does have to wonder.... I mean, in the Dem primary we heard how "Black participation seems down!" but I believe that was generally in red states. In others, like Michigan, I recall the "record turn out" and scores registering to vote. Maricopa County AZ and the hispanic areas with barely any voting stations. It does have to make ya think
Edited by JJLehto - February 06 2017 at 18:14 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 06 2017 at 18:24 | |||
On the topic of voter shenanigans, I did hear a podcast not too long ago looking into the recount drama in NC.
The GOP kept demanding recounts and holding up the results, and this podcast went into how they targeted NC as their witch hunt for voter fraud. They decided this was their best chance to find fraud and picked every inch apart with a microscope. After all their effort they found 300-400 ballots where the County Water & Soil administrator could've been fraudulent. Keep in mind the Dem had a lead of around 10,000. I forget the details but what happened with this county water & soil administrator was technically legal, though it was very boderline and the actions could've been considered fraud by any reasonable person. BUT the GOP tried to then say the whole thing should be thrown out, the courts did not agree, and the guy who actually filed the lawsuit showed up woefully ill prepared: Not properly dressed, didn't know his lawyers' name and couldn't even explain what his lawsuit was about, he then admitted he just signed his name to whatever his lawyer wrote So the courts threw the case out, and found out the GOP actually committed voter fraud because people who were paid to mail absentee ballots never did that but still submitted filled out ballots. Ta da! The end result of the GOP witch hunt for fraud in what was supposedly their best chance As we know, the outgoing Gov and Congress then signed a law reducing future (aka the incoming Democrat) Governor powers so there ya go. And people then are shocked/don't believe when they hear the US is no longer a full functioning Democracy!
Edited by JJLehto - February 06 2017 at 18:28 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 06 2017 at 23:57 | |||
So I just did my taxes, first time (I always just left it to Dad who was happy to since he wanted to get the most of his TurboTax software) and figured I'd look at the numbers. My income for 2016 (granted it started in May) puts me somewhere in the bottom 13-20%
Between Federal Income, Social Security, Medicare paid a total of 12.1% in taxes I paid 14.2% to my employer sponsored health insurance. Looks like Uncle Capital Health takes a bigger bite than Uncle Sam! Especially after EITC and deductions, which were 6.3%, I ended up with a total 5.8% tax rate. Couldn't help but think about Bernie's plan/logic...even a 10% hike in taxes if it eliminated most private premiums, would still save me. Assuming everyone pays something into it with it being progressive on income, other savings, payments etc yeah I can't see how it wont cost less than what we do now. At the very least break even. Some food for thought. |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: February 07 2017 at 01:17 | |||
Should we start a 2017 edition? (Because that's where my perverse enjoyment of the business giants going after Trump with that legal brief would go.)
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 07 2017 at 17:39 | |||
Perhaps an American politics thread in general? Why make one every year. That is assuming we make it through 2017!
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 07 2017 at 23:23 | |||
New perma thread began. If the people deem it acceptable, we shall move it there.
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