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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 00:29
I think pretty much every person on Earth not in Isis would love to see them completely eliminated. Even Al Qaeda didn't really like em. No one will disagree with that sentiment, on its own. 
Thing is...how is Trump gunna do that? I fear his methods to try and eliminate Isis will, like most US foreign policy, make the situation worse. 

I am not saying this for hyperbolic effect. This is a legitimate concern I have based off observations I think most would agree with. 

Trump may trigger something cataclysmic. 

Isis wants a fight. Literally. They want a war, they believe in this Clash of Civilizations thing and ready to die for it. They want Muslims dead too. Mainstream (moderate, normal whatever the hell you wanna stick to em) Muslims are as much the enemy as the West. They're also in the way of ISIS and more of them have been killed in terrorist attacks than Westerners. 

Enter Trump who is looking for a fight. Funny since pre 2015 he seemed to be vaguely non interventionist, or at the very least people should pay us for our help, as penned in a full page ad he took out in 1987 (guess he does have some consistent views) but new Trump seems ready to brawl. He may be trying to pick a fight with a group that wants a fight. Keep in mind, two major positions in his administration are held by Mike Flynn and now Steve Bannon. Flynn is obsessed with Iran and believes, through public statements, Islam itself is the problem, a cancer. Bannon we dont even have to get into, but he also believes in the clash of civilizations, that we need to protect ourselves from barbarism at the gates. 

At the least, he will keep the cycle of terrorism going and likely make it worse. At worst....not sure I wanna think about it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 00:56
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Hats off to Steve (laz) for having the courage and presence of mind to say what he perceives instead of getting caught-up in the socio-politics of the moment, and to continue his level-headed discourse after being called ugly things.   Facts are very volatile and uncomfortable things to point out.

I must have missed all of these "ugly thing" that Steve is being accused of.

I think Steve is right in that the Nazi comparison is a little "long".  On the other hand we certainly do need to be very vigilant about Trump.  While we shouldn't oppose everything he does just because we may be on "the other team" (like Republicans did with Obama), we certainly need to speak out (at the very least!) when we see something wrong.  No, Trump is not (yet?) Hitler.  But we don't want things to even come close to getting that far.


just to make it clear: I am not comparing Trump to the Nazis. what I do compare is patterns: the way the Nazis took power and turned Germany into a totalitarian country and the way Trump starts his presidency. the parallels are in my opinion obvious and should be a warning sign to everyone.

and please don't forget that at the beginning of Hitler's reign most intellectuals did not see this coming. they took him for a short-lived phenomenon that was not a real danger. let us not make this mistake with Trump as well. I'd rather utter my Cassandra calls with everybody ridiculing me than wring my hands and cry "who would have thought?" when it is too late.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 01:07
Speaking of, I'm sure everyone has heard the news that Steve Bannon has been promoted to a seat on the National Security Council. 
I've officially become very scared. This guy is dangerous and insane. He's compared himself to a Leninist in that he too wants to tear down the state. He seems, my interpretation, to want to rip down the whole system and rebuild it, Tyler Durden style. I can't quite figure out what he believes the new system should be, but it seems he's a "true" free market believer libertarian. Ironic he rails against crony capitalism since I believe that type of rigid ideology would to an Oligarchy, whatever state there is being own and run by corporate giants. Which we currently are on track for so yeah, all according to plan!

More disturbing is his style of rhetoric, and his views on the world itself. He has said publicly the West is at war with Islam for its survival...which is apparently Christian limited government capitalism that spreads well being to all and shuns cronyism, like I said typical confused libertarian thinking. He clearly has no care for Democracy, which will get in the way of people like him and Peter Thiel (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump-steve-bannon-peter-thiel-214490) or Rex Tillerson and wealthy people like Betsy DeVos. His rhetoric is scary, and if Breitbart is any clue (and comments about media sources add to this) he wants an all favorable, exclude non favorable, media serving the movement. Alternative facts will balance the mainstream lies which are just elitists out to keep us down. 


This guy has a lot of power now. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 01:59
Trump is not and never was a Nazi. Frankly, that whole debate I view as a distraction. It's also misinformed. 
That said, he absolutely ran a Fascist campaign, that is something I believed in late 2015 and still do. The first thing that must be understood: Fascism =/= Nazi. They are distinct. Fascism does however have meaning, definition. It's not a word  I throw around for shock value. 

Fascism was basically centrist economic populism. Emphasis was on business over labor. They acknowledged the hardship of workers but rejected class warfare. There was a strong focus on social conservatism, nationalism and enemies. They were very often autarkic (closed off from global trade) and tended to be anti immigrant. They hated the state, as it was, for being weak and incompetent, often they cost the nation its former glory.They railed against elites, domestic and international. We all know they sought to control the media, and relied on personality cults (often using blunt direct rhetoric).

Trump:
.Centrist economic populism: Check.  Emphasis on business over labor: Check
.Acknowledge hardship of workers but reject class warfare: Check
.Focus on social conservatism, nationalism, enemies: Check
.Autarkic rhetoric: check. Anti immigrant: Check, to an extent
.Hate the weak incompetent state: Check. Did said cost us some former glory: Check
.Rail against elites: Check
.Seek to control media: I'd say so. Personality cult: I'd say so. 

Now, this was his campaign. That is all I said. Is he actually a fascist? Who the hell knows. Fascism was once called the merger of state and corporate power, which certainly seems accurate....but who knows what he believes. He is likely more free market, and wont seek actual government/business/labor entities to hammer sh*t out. His anti trade stuff is 99% rhetoric 1% actual policy. I won't claim to know his belief system, but his campaign was certainly Fascist in nature. 

This isn't new. We need to remember this happened before, and at that time Fascism was quite popular. 
Rogerthat and I have discussed it, the situations are quite similar. The first wave of globalization/neoliberalism (basically) was rejected. Socialism and Fascism arose as its opponents. Its rejection lead to a global inward turn, social hostility, and anger. US, Europe, even India, Philippines, other countries I'm sure. People are people, history repeats. I don't see why it's so crazy to think Fascist-ish ideas are on the rise. It's just painful to think about, more so here in the US. 
Are these ideas always in people as seeds, or full grown beliefs? It may not matter. Whether grown out of crisis, or allowed to roam free, it's coming out. Just like in Europe. Being a poli sci person I always knew of Euraba, it was some fringe idea 10 years ago. Today...well...like I said, is it always lurking or do people turn to such things when times are bad and faith has been lost in the system? Doesn't matter to me




Edited by JJLehto - January 30 2017 at 02:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 02:07
A DIRECT comparison of Hitler and Trump would be ridiculous, I agree, but it's imperative that people stay vigilant, as stated above. The signs are there for all to see, and they do point in the direction of fascism as defined.

Trump is a caricature of a politician, and what we have to look out for is a sort of emergent Hitler/Blofeld chimera (the mythical Hiblera, also known as the Hibloch).


Edited by npjnpj - January 30 2017 at 02:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 03:07
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

In all seriousness, I do hope he doesn't take on China for real.  Not that China is an angel.  Many of the things he accuses them of have a kernel of truth to them.  But by now, so many nations have deeply entrenched interests in China that going for a showdown with them will almost certainly lead to a major realignment of world powers...in a way that may isolate the USA.  If forced to choose between NATO (a NATO that Trump threatens to dismantle) and China, EU may choose China.  Why, even Theresa May would say definitely rather than maybe to China.  And even if it is merely delaying the inevitable, I would like to see a new China-led world order delayed for as long as possible.  But the fact that Trump is mum about China so far may not necessarily mean he is not going to take them on, just that he's going for the low hanging fruit first.  And since scrapping TPP has likely strengthened China's position in Asia, the showdown may happen sooner or later if only to placate Trump's disgruntled supporters.

Indeed. It's been leftist/labor organizations where I get my info about currency manipulation, dumping, various anti competitive policies, how poorly designed our trade bills are (or well designed for intl powers!). There are absolutely bits of truth to it all, it doesn't stem from completely nothing. I mean, Obama kept saying "If we don't write the rules, China will". "We can't let China write the rules of the game" and said we need to balance "China's rising power" which included increasing our military #s in the region. So I do think this isn't exactly new, just far less nuanced

China, man IDK. I wanna say Trump won't really confront China. If the killing of TPP will likely strengthen China's position in the region, well didn't he just actually benefit them? LOL
Like I said somewhere earlier, he picks on Mexico, and he plans to meet with Trudeau...not exactly bold moves. Canada is literally no concern for us, and Mexico, yeah maybe he can renegotiate. But he wont tackle the big one, China. 

So I don't wanna buy the "tough on China" thing BUT he has antagonized them over Taiwan and now the South China Sea so, who knows. Negotiation tactic possibly but again this is China not Mexico he's dealing with.

Yeah, I guess call me a true believer in the marketsLOL if it's gunna happen it's gunna happen.  I prefer a multi polar world (oh 2007 when we thought the EU would be a future power to rival US, China) but if it's gunna be China then it will be. As for delaying the inevitable eh, I figured it's more enlightened, and peaceful, to accept it and they're a more stable, pragmatic force than let's say Russia. So could be worse? I just am stuck in my naive waysCry I believe in everyone leaving each other be, no competing for their bigger share and that means letting whatever happens happen. This is why 1: I'm no good with intl relations and 2: Why I can never be in politics! Just imagine JJ 2024 "Let America become #2" LOL 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 03:13
Trudeau announced that he's accepting the refugees refused by the USA.

So that's another wall to be built right there. 5500 miles, officially the longest border in the world. Man alive, where's this going?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 03:15
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

A DIRECT comparison of Hitler and Trump would be ridiculous, I agree, but it's imperative that people stay vigilant, as stated above. The signs are there for all to see, and they do point in the direction of fascism as defined.

Trump is a caricature of a politician, and what we have to look out for is a sort of emergent Hitler/Blofeld chimera (the mythical Hiblera, also known as the Hibloch).

Indeed, and hey...just  because Fascism is not the same as Nazism, and just because Trump is possibly a fascist and not a nazi, doesn't mean we can wash our hands of it.
A fascist is...pretty badLOL
Given what he's trying to do to our media, public education, labor rights, regulatory power AND has people in major positions that seem ready to start a war with a billion people, yeah...it matters diddly to me that he's not a nazi. 

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Trudeau announced that he's accepting the refugees refused by the USA.

So that's another wall to be built right there. 5500 miles, officially the longest border in the world. Man alive, where's this going?

Guess walling off the coastline?
Maybe a dome over all of it to finish the beautiful project off!

Hawaii and Alaska won't fit but we can sell those off. Hawaii is mostly non white so who cares right?, and Alaska is right by Russia already so might as well just hand that over for free. 


Edited by JJLehto - January 30 2017 at 03:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 03:57
there was no reaction to a post of mine that I considered extremely important, so I will post what I said there again (in italics):

on Jan 26th Hitler decreed the "Deutsches Beamtengesetz" (German civil-service law) which forced German civil servants to be loyal to the NSDAP. is it just a coincidence that exactly (and I mean exactly) 80 years later Donald Trump replaces hundreds of top civil servants with people who are loyal to him? the method may be different, the result is the same.

mark that it is by no means standard procedure that a new government replaces civil servants. the bureaucracy is usually kept intact, simply because it works. clumsily at times, but it works.

when I read of this action of Trump all my alarm bells started ringing. changes are not made at the very top, whatever any government may believe. the civil servants are the ones who have to apply the changes. replacing them with loyal followers assures that whatever Trump comes up with will be executed. these Mitläufer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitl%C3%A4ufer) are the people that will follow any order, no matter how atrocious it might be.

ceterum censeo principiis obsta



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 04:30
In your case, my silence was meant as agreement. I see it the same as you; there are just too many parallels.

One question is: when Trump has solidified his power, what's he going to do with it? It's damn frightening. The most powerful nation on Earth is being run by a bunch of raving lunatics. It's like an episode of The Twilight Zone that's become reality.


Edited by npjnpj - January 30 2017 at 04:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 07:05
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

there was no reaction to a post of mine that I considered extremely important, so I will post what I said there again (in italics):

on Jan 26th Hitler decreed the "Deutsches Beamtengesetz" (German civil-service law) which forced German civil servants to be loyal to the NSDAP. is it just a coincidence that exactly (and I mean exactly) 80 years later Donald Trump replaces hundreds of top civil servants with people who are loyal to him? the method may be different, the result is the same.

mark that it is by no means standard procedure that a new government replaces civil servants. the bureaucracy is usually kept intact, simply because it works. clumsily at times, but it works.

when I read of this action of Trump all my alarm bells started ringing. changes are not made at the very top, whatever any government may believe. the civil servants are the ones who have to apply the changes. replacing them with loyal followers assures that whatever Trump comes up with will be executed. these Mitläufer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitl%C3%A4ufer) are the people that will follow any order, no matter how atrocious it might be.

ceterum censeo principiis obsta

I did notice your post (agreeing) and said nothing bc I am refraining from any opinion anymore , being a scholar of the NSDAP and therefore, a target for unending challenge.Ouch Whatever. The point made is that political polarization is becoming increasingly strident, as Trumpf continues his march by first creating chaos and then claiming to restore order. Boooooooring: history books are full of similar examples, from Caesar to Khomeini . When the civil servants become obedient not to the state but the current power holder, its time to start getting really really worried....Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 07:40
You mean Trump will lift the imigration ban soon so that he can present himself as the restorer of peace? I must say, that thought hadn't even crossed my mind. It's possible, of course, and it's an old trick, as you say, but in this case I would think it unlikely.

The ban has caused just too much criticism of his person worldwide, and Trump is a person who, although he  loves to be hated, hates to be publicly critisized or humiliated. It doesn't seem to fit his profile, and I don't think he has the brains to be that devious, if it's not strictly about a business matter. Remember, the man's not a politician.

It's just not directly and personally confrontational enough for him.

Only time will tell though, we'll know soon enough.


Edited by npjnpj - January 30 2017 at 07:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 07:58
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Yeah, I guess call me a true believer in the marketsLOL if it's gunna happen it's gunna happen.  I prefer a multi polar world (oh 2007 when we thought the EU would be a future power to rival US, China) but if it's gunna be China then it will be. As for delaying the inevitable eh, I figured it's more enlightened, and peaceful, to accept it and they're a more stable, pragmatic force than let's say Russia. So could be worse? I just am stuck in my naive waysCry I believe in everyone leaving each other be, no competing for their bigger share and that means letting whatever happens happen. This is why 1: I'm no good with intl relations and 2: Why I can never be in politics! Just imagine JJ 2024 "Let America become #2" LOL 

Well, it is because I would like some form of market based economic rules to remain (at a broad international level and not necessarily at the level of different nations which may choose their own policies) that I dread the coming elevation of China.  They haven't yet demonstrated that they believe in either (a) democracy or (b) fair competition.  Maybe I am biased here coming from an Indian perspective because we do have democracy and historically too India has been more Westward oriented and quite blindsided to the East.  But with all its lies, contradictions, hypocrisies, I would still prefer the openness of a USA to the secrecy  of China.  Of course, I don't broadly disagree with you in the sense that if it's gonna happen, it will happen indeed.  But I wouldn't welcome it unlike some of the more anti-US denizens of the third world waiting with bated breath for the collapse of the American empire.  Yes, of course, a Russian led world order may be even worse but perhaps we are already living in one. Wink
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 08:14
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

You mean Trump will lift the imigration ban soon so that he can present himself as the restorer of peace? I must say, that thought hadn't even crossed my mind. It's possible, of course, and it's an old trick, as you say, but in this case I would think it unlikely.

The ban has caused just too much criticism of his person worldwide, and Trump is a person who, although he  loves to be hated, hates to be publicly critisized or humiliated. It doesn't seem to fit his profile, and I don't think he has the brains to be that devious, if it's not strictly about a business matter. Remember, the man's not a politician.

It's just not directly and personally confrontational enough for him.

Only time will tell though, we'll know soon enough.
I never said restore PEACE, I stated restore ORDER, big difference! Creating a police state in a country that is already over armed is a cinch. If he creates 100, 000 jobs and they are all in the police, please do not be surprised. Also, as a businessman, he knows that the best and fastest way to improve the economy is by forging a war economy. What was Vietnam? A market for the industrial/military complex. Only time will tell, indeed.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 13:09
ROBERT REICH: THE DANGEROUS RISE OF STEVE BANNON
Trump is unhinged and ignorant. Bannon is nuts and malicious.

BY ROBERT REICH ON 1/30/17 AT 1:24 PM

Who is Steve Bannon? ‘The Most Dangerous Political Operative In America’
This article first appeared on RobertReich.org.

President Donald Trump has reorganized the National Security Council—elevating his chief political strategist, Steve Bannon, and demoting the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

And what does Bannon have to bring to the table?

In case you forgot, before joining Trump’s inner circle Bannon headed Breitbart News, a far-right media outlet that has promoted conspiracy theories and is a platform for the alt-right movement, which espouses white nationalism.

This is truly scary.

Former National Security Adviser Susan Rice calls the move “stone cold crazy.” Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who also served under President George W. Bush, says the demotions are a “big mistake.”

Republican Senator John McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, told CBS News, "I am worried about the National Security Council.… The appointment of Mr. Bannon is a radical departure from any National Security Council in history.” McCain added that the “one person who is indispensable would be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in my view.”

Here’s the big worry; Trump is unhinged and ignorant; Bannon is nuts and malicious. If not supervised by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, their decisions could endanger the world. ...

http://europe.newsweek.com/robert-reich-dangerous-rise-steve-bannon-549967?rm=eu
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 18:52
Bannon is a truly mad, dangerous human being.
The sane/moderate Republicans I know keep sticking their head in the ground. Some are convinced Trump will be impeached, and soon-ish. Others just ignore it all, some find ways to semi defend it all.
I think this isn't going away any time soon. Especially if the GOP refuses to fight back. Even if you worry about re election...a bunch were re-elected this November. McCain, Rand Paul, Pat Toomey are some. They have to start resisting.


Indeed Rogerthat, I reckon I can't disagree with that. Economically I may have no care about the flow of things, but politically/as hegemon I agree, China is not 100% dedicated to the ideas we hold dear. We can only guess if they are still on the slow methodical process of unwinding, OR reject the western ideal and will try to maintain a semi managed economy. I know Steve Keen, who's got quite a damn good prophetic record, said in a lecture China's economy is reaching dangerous levels of private debt, fueled partly by natural consumption, partly from continuous shots to keep the hangover from hitting. We know no one, not even the very smart Chinese, can escape a bubble. When it pops, we'll see how bad the damage is. If its bad enough, maybe the US will hold onto its position a bit longer!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2017 at 19:07
We all know about the Mosque shooting in Quebec that killed 6 and hurt 8 others. The shooter is in custody.

That, is no questions about it, domestic right wing terrorism.

Current reports indicate he was normal and displayed no radical tendencies, until the rise of Le Pen, and he also was supportive of Trump. Beyond the memes, sh*tposts, trolling and silly debates about nonsense THIS is the danger...just like how a Muslim can become radicalized, so can a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or vaguely conservative white person. The anger being stirred up, violent rhetoric and "normalizing" of such dark things is having real impact.

Sad thing is, there is no god damn clash of civilizations....just extremists who seem to want there to be one, and actions like this fan the flames
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2017 at 00:43
Post deleted by self.
I wanted to say something about Sally Yates, but I'll wait until my pills work and the voices in my head have stopped screaming.


Edited by npjnpj - January 31 2017 at 00:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2017 at 01:04
just to show you what absurd results Trump's entry ban can have: Navid Kermani, an author who holds both German and Iranian citizenship, has won several awards for his literary and academic work, among them the Peace Prize of the German Booksellers' Association, and once even was suggested to become the new Federal President of Germany by the German Green Party, would not be allowed to enter the USA.

Friede and I have often listened to his extremely insightful comments on matters such as the Near East conflict or Iranian politics on the radio. but Trump would not want to have an intellectual like him to enter anyway. "he thinks too much. such men are dangerous"


Edited by BaldJean - January 31 2017 at 01:12


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2017 at 01:18
OK, I've calmed down now.

So, Sally Yates:
'Betrayal of the defense department' my arse. She was doing her job.

Totalitarian state scare tactics. 'Nuff said.

As for Nawid Kermani and others: The German Spiegel ran an incredibly annoying article on all the celebrities who would not be allowed into the USA any more. I don't give a crap about these celebrities (be they rappers, celebrity authors, or politicians, the poor lambs); I'm more concerned about the faceless normal people who are now summarily branded terrorists and have been uprooted from their daily existance.

McCarthy, anyone?


Edited by npjnpj - January 31 2017 at 01:26
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