The most intriguing conspiracy theory |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 18:20 | |||||
You didn't answer my question. I asked for an estimate of how many people you think would have to be involved?
You are right, the part in parentheses was uncalled for and I apologize for saying that. I think the comparison of how James seems to gather information with how Karl Pilkington does is apt, though.
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Time always wins. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 18:42 | |||||
I still have no idea who Karl Pilkington is...
I did answer your question. I said I have no idea how many people it would take. Anyhow, time to debunk some of that Cracked article: "I mean, keep in mind, I don't know how big of a job that would be (no one has ever demolished a building that size before) but a building just half the size of one WTC tower took 4,000 separate charges to bring down. Four thousand. That job took seven months of prep work... and they had the run of an abandoned building, without having to hide their work from 100,000 people every day. Our demolition crew, on the other hand, can work only at night and has to spend the last bit of every shift carefully repairing the wall and hiding any evidence of charges or detonators as not to be discovered during the day. Huge teams of demolitions experts, who had no problem wiring a building full of innocent New Yorkers to explode, hired in secret, worked every night for what had to be a year (and that's only if they had a big enough crew) placing maybe 10,000 separate charges in each tower and another few thousand in WTC 7 (the smaller WTC tower that also collapsed, later in the day on 9/11). And nobody notices." So a 'plane flies into one tower and another into the other tower and the intense fire causes both towers to freefall when on no previous occasion has an intense fire ever done such a thing. Yet this article says it would take 10,000 separate charges to bring down a building in such a manner. So now a 'plane and the intense fire it causes is supposed to be equal to 10,000 charges of dynamite? Oh please! That's just silly. Two 'planes bring down 2 towers in less than a day after impact yet they claim it would take 7 months of preparation to bring down a much smaller building (I'm not saying that's a lie)? And there was building work going on and it was happening the whole week prior to the incident. Indeed, I believe some people have claimed there were empty floors within both towers (this has not been officially proven) and if this is the case, they'd be a prime target for explosives as nobody would be on those floors to witness anything. Plus this could happen during the day and not just at night. But wait, there's more. Because there are hundreds of thousands of civil engineers and structural engineers in the world (people who are experts in what makes buildings fall down) and lots of demolitions experts. Approximately zero of them say the 9/11 attacks looked like bombed buildings. All of them either say outright that the demolition theory is asinine, or are silent in the face of what the Loose Changers say is video proof of mass murder so obvious even an uneducated jackass off the street can spot it. This is quite simply not the case. There's quite a few demolition experts (they're on Youtube) who disagree with the above and claim it was a controlled explosion that took the buildings down. For the author of the article to claim there was approximately zero is a complete lie. WT7 was barely hit by any debris, yet it also collapsed in freefall for no apparent reason. The author finally has to say this: If you'd like to read more about the 9/11 conspiracy movement, there's lots more at Debunking911.com and Screw Loose Change, whose research I stole for this article. So he didn't even do his own research? Disappointing. I've said before that Loose Change is not to be trusted and neither is Dylan Avery or Alex Jones. I also have to make a correction: Loose Change does indeed posit the missile theory. My mistake. I've not watched the film in quite some time. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 18:59 | |||||
I'd like to add:
How on earth would an intense fire that started about 3/4 of the way up the tower cause two buildings to collapse in almost a perfect freefall? That's not even including WTC7, of course. I'd expect the hottest floor(s) (so the floors that were impacted first) to maybe weaken the steel beams and thus cause the floors above to collapse downwards on top of those floors. They wouldn't cause the less hot floors below to collapse as well. The floors (I mean the floors, walls and ceiling and the structure) would just fall sideways and slide onto other buildings surrounding it and thus cause far more devastation. For a building to collapse as it did, I'd expect there to be controlled explosions on certain floors that would cause the floors above (as the explosives would start at the top) to fall down on top of the lower floors in a nice neat pile. Just like what appears to have happened. I've watched a lot of Fred Dibnah programmes to know what buildings being brought down by explosives is like. I'm not a structural engineer or indeed a demolition expert though. I'm just basing this on watching buildings (and chimneys) freefall in demolitions. There's plenty of videos showing this. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:05 | |||||
^ I saw a decent lecture (on Youtube) by a guy who thinks it was some kind of "Concentrated Energy Weapon" being tested, with the planes as a cover. He contends that would be the only way for the towers to 'shear off'. Don't know how convincing, but it was great conjecture.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:12 | |||||
I'll have to look for that one, David.
Some say the metal beams were tested at the time of construction to withstand extreme heat. Thermite (although not an explosive) could have been used. You'd need a lot of it though and in concentrated areas to cause fires. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:14 | |||||
and of course there could have been any number of explosives on the planes
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:17 | |||||
If you believe the no 'planes theory (I'm not saying I do), then of course the explosives would have been in the missiles.
You could easily pack explosives into a 'plane and use some kind of timer to set them off. In fact, the Germans did it in World War 2. Not so much with the timer but they still tried it with their Mistel Composite aircraft which consisted of a bomber with explosives in the nose, no pilots or instruments or anything and a fighter aircraft to carry it and guide it in. Edited by James - November 20 2011 at 19:30 |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:30 | |||||
Saying because it would take a certain amount of explosives to demolish a building, in such a way, that a plane crash couldn't is a logical fallacy. Experts is a subjective term. In my opinion claiming, on youtube or elsewhere, that the buildings looked like they were bombed invalidates your expert status.Do his own research? He was writing an analysis of existing information.
Here's a little video about debunking controlled demolition, while I'm here:
Oh, and Karl Pilkington is a friend of British comedian Ricky Gervais. Ricky finds Karl's bizarre world view and willingness to believe anything he reads online to be hilarious and has put a lot of effort into trying to make him a household name.
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Time always wins. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:43 | |||||
has anyone mentioned 'Globalism' ?; not so much a conspiracy theory as an emerging reality some think of as conspiratorial, in fact I believe it is thought of mostly as a "conspiracy of the Left" rather than the garden variety Industrial-Military kind. John Kennedy was considered by some to be an early Globalist, perhaps one of the things that made the Defense/Intelligence elite nervous.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 19:56 | |||||
Ah. Ricky Gervais... urgh. He's so up his own arse! He used to be amusing but now he's just annoying. He was born in the same town as my two older brothers too... oh well. Edited by James - November 20 2011 at 19:58 |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:07 | |||||
Actually, there are reports of people hearing explosions whilst on the ground floor. So that video lies as well.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:07 | |||||
Yes. In real life, and even in the PA community, if I recall correctly Jody lost a relative in the attacks. Also, I happened to look up the Potomac and see an enormous black column of smoke rising from the Pentagon. My wife was even closer. But I'm sure you'll tell me it was a well orchestrated campfire. |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:15 | |||||
The only conspiracies that have some resemblance of probability are those where only a few people would have to be a part of.
Which means: almost none. Hell, maybe the JFK thing is the closest one to a "few people" conspiracy... |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:29 | |||||
I do seem to remember Jody having a relative who perished. And no, something did hit the Pentagon, so I'm not saying there wasn't a fire. |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: November 20 2011 at 21:52 | |||||
Ricky's funny but Karl is hilarious. I've found this discussion far from funny and extremely close to tragic. I'm all for skepticism, especially when it comes to government, but I just can't stand people yelling fire when there isn't even any smoke. There is just no way in hell that 9/11 was a government conpiracy. I'd swear that on my life.
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Time always wins. |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: November 21 2011 at 04:29 | |||||
No, you are completely misunderstanding the situation, can you stop saying crazy things without spending 15 seconds Googling them first. There are many more words if you want. mom, cracked is not really a good source for you to be leaning so heavily on... |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: November 21 2011 at 04:53 | |||||
The film maker calls himself 'Moadib' (sp?) which is a reference to to Frank Herberts Dune. In a BBC documnetary he was tracked down to Northern Ireland, and questioned over his alleged links to a far right group, and anti Semitic literature. The BBC may have just been on a smear mission. I'm sure it wouldn;t have been the first time. A number of the film makers claim have been de-bunked as far as I know, especially with regard to the timing of their journey into London, and the times the bombs went off. What interests me most about 7/7 is not so much the specifics of the day, but the intel that was not share with the public inquiry. Specifically I'm interested in the link between th bombers and Haroon Rashid Aswat. You'll need to look this character up, if you're interested, but basuically the Telegraph reported, shortly after the attacks that he had been in touch with the bombers in the days and weeks before the attacks. swat had been arrested in the US in thelate 90's, in Seattle, charged with trying to set up a training camp in Oregon. The FBI caught up with him in Seattle but were 'ordered' by the CIA to release him, and send him back to Britain. Intelligence expert John Loftus believed swat to be a valuable MI6/Al Queada double agent, feeding valuable information to the UK government. The plot is very dark and complex, and I'm not going into it any further here, suffice to say there is plenty of information on the web about it, and much of that info is in the mainstream. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: November 21 2011 at 05:04 | |||||
Globalism will be the undoing of the west, but I suspect that was not the original aim. It could be considered an inevitable conseqeunce of capitalism, or at least of the kind of crony capitalism by which we run the global economy. What do you call a conspiracy thory that comes true? Is there a name for it? The idea that the global banks run the show, and not the governments of sovereign nations is one popular CT. I'll not make any commnt on this, but just say two words: Greece and Italy. If people don't know what I mean by that, then watch the news, from a variety of different sources. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: November 21 2011 at 05:37 | |||||
That BBC link is hilarious. It doesn't prove anything whatsover. It's rather a vague article and statement and you want me to seriously believe the FBI's word? Or the BBC for that matter. |
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: November 21 2011 at 05:39 | |||||
Because there's a big difference between the FBI f**king up and giving the wrong people initially and "the hijackers turning up alive". And their word is the only reason you have these insane beliefs to begin with... |
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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