Donovan: Early Prog or Just Psych? |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Topic: Donovan: Early Prog or Just Psych? Posted: October 02 2014 at 17:59 |
Sunshine Superman and Atlantis. Early prog or just psychedelic folk rock?
Edited by SteveG - October 02 2014 at 18:00 |
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: October 02 2014 at 20:37 |
I've often thought it to be psychedelic folk rock ....because stylistically if you've noticed....it has that British 70's Rock feel. In some sense...I can hear Ray Davies singing "Sunshine Superman" and "Hurdy Gurdy Man" is reminiscent of The Beatles approach on Magical Mystery Tour. I personally can hear Ringo's snare drum effect on "Hurdy Gurdy". The effect that can be duplicated by placing a bath towel on the snare.and hitting it with a stick..which creates the snare drum sound on "Strawberry Fields" or "Helter Skelter". Donovan has the 60's British Psychedelic Pop sound and so maybe just elements within his songs cross paths with Prog. Not structure though. Only choice of sounds and oddball ideas. It's been too long since I've heard Atlantis and I can't comment. Many of the ideas in 60's British Psychedelic Pop filter through in Prog, but we could always point that detail out in many of the British artists of that decade and not just the usual suspects.
Edited by TODDLER - October 02 2014 at 20:40 |
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: October 02 2014 at 21:13 |
What do you consider specifically to be early Prog?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: October 03 2014 at 12:30 |
^Good question. Very rudimentary. Not even proto as, you stated yourself, there is no clear form. Perhaps just avant or just oddball like the 2 minute speach that opens Atlantis to be followed by only a cascading repeating chorus.
Btw, the drummer on Hurdy Gurdy Man was John Bonham before he joined you know who. Just kidding, but it's a great imitation. Edited by SteveG - October 03 2014 at 15:22 |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20631 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 08:05 |
I never really thought of him as psych or prog though some of his songs certainly had some psych things in them.
I was lucky enough to have seen him play at a local folk club in Indiana about 15 years ago....nice show and we managed to get some autographs and meet him after the show. A very nice man.
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 08:25 |
I don't really see him as early prog, mind you he did support Yes on a tour once.
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24348 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 08:31 |
He did indeed, and I attended one of those gigs (Rotterdam, NL, November 1977). His performance was not really appreciated by all those Yes fans, but somehow he seemed a nice guy. His music has little to do with prog as far as I can judge. Remotely proto-prog-related at its best...
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 09:01 |
But of course Steve Hillage covered "Hurdy Gurdy Man" on "L" and a more spaced out Prog version of the song is featured on "Live Herald". Progressive rockers have a track record of re-doing old Psychedelic Pop songs. Has anyone ever noticed that? Maybe this is an insignificant point, but then what lies within the interest to do that?
Edited by TODDLER - October 09 2014 at 09:02 |
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 09:48 |
Donovan wrote outstanding melodies - waaaay better than Dylan in that respect. The words, however, were the trippy aspect of Donovan albums. The arrangements could've been used by the Bee Gees, early John Martyn, Nick Drake or Bill Fay.....very traditional UK folk-oriented.
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KingCrInuYasha
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 26 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1281 |
Posted: October 09 2014 at 21:19 |
I'm going to have to say just psych, with a dash of prog.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: October 10 2014 at 00:58 |
Just acid folk and psych pop. Not "early" prog at all as far as I can tell.
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What?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Online Points: 13097 |
Posted: October 10 2014 at 12:40 |
Not prog at all. I can't think of a proggy Donovan song. Repeating a chorus for several minutes on Atlantis does not prog make.
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Friday13th
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 30 2013 Status: Offline Points: 284 |
Posted: October 14 2014 at 00:20 |
Once again, SteveG surprises us all with his inciteful questioning of artists panned as not prog. Skeptics, he is right on target. I had heard Donovan for his connection with the Beatles and Nick Drake, but as I scrolled through his songs on itunes today, I came across a song titled "Get Thy Bearings." I rushed back to my 4 disc King Crimson box set. Low and behold, King Crimson does live covers of not just Holst's "Mars", but Donovan's "Get Thy Bearings." THEY CALL HIM PROTO-PROOOOOOOG! QUITE RIGHTLY!
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8975 |
Posted: October 14 2014 at 07:51 |
psych pop IMO, very very good psych pop
But I can't comment on his early to mid 1970s work which might have incorporated more prog Edited by kenethlevine - October 14 2014 at 07:52 |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: October 14 2014 at 09:08 |
I got no clue what that Prog thing is or is not, but i love some of the stuf he did.
NB: Funny enough he sings co-lead with Alice Cooper on the album Billion Dollar Babies.
Great track.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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AreYouHuman
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2013 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 470 |
Posted: October 14 2014 at 21:26 |
Some
good points already raised. Some of his
songs, especially Guinevere, could be considered prog folk.
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
Posted: October 17 2014 at 07:40 |
Guinevere? Prog folk? Donovan did many numbers that encroach on that sound, but Guinevere?
I've always dug Donovan - he got a bum rap in the 70s as he suddenly became the whipping boy of all that was "hippie" when that scene became passe. Many overlook his early 70s stuff like Open Road, HMS Donovan, Cosmic Wheels, and - especially - 7-Tease. All great folk rock albums, but about as prog as the Fairport Convention or Steeleye Span (oh, wait, they're both in PA!)....I guess even Donovan is prog rock.......really?
Maybe we can stretch a prog label over the Roy Harper and Kevin Coyne....I've always thought of PA as more than just a place for people who love music to hang out, it's also a place to discover new bands.....and Harper and Coyne really deserve a listen.
As do the Grateful Dead, but I've been down that road feeling bad one too many times.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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KingCrInuYasha
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 26 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1281 |
Posted: October 18 2014 at 00:40 |
I have Open Road. That was good. "Rikki Tiki Tavi" was an obvious high point, but "Changes", "Curry Land", "Joe Bean's Theme", "Celtic Rock", "Roots Of Oak", and "New Years Resovolution" were good. A nice change of direction. I don't understand how that wasn't commercially successful.
I might get HMS Donovan, but only because it seems like the easiest one to find.
BTW, what do you guys think was Donovan's best work? A Gift From A Flower To A Garden is probably it for me, though The Hurdy Gurdy Man, Sunshine Superman, and Barabajagal could also qualify. With the latter, the 2005 version was a real eyeopener - so many cool outtakes and directions. |
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
Posted: October 18 2014 at 22:19 |
The Intergalactic Laxative is kind of a bowel movement prog song , no?
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
Posted: October 20 2014 at 13:26 |
A Gift from a Flower is a good record, but you must take the concept in full in order to enjoy the record. It was an attempt by Donovan to get back to the acoustic folk of his earliest records, and it was also his first real concept record. The gift is the songs, the flower is the mother/father and the garden the son/daughter - Donovan basically wrote an album of songs for parents and their kids (something he's done on several occasions, including with HMS Donovan, For the Little Ones and the Pied Piper albums). It's a double album with the first record having a more "rock" feel, but still very mellow; the second record was largely acoustic and included themes of growth, love, teaching, morality, etc. I personally love the album but don't put it on as much as Sunshine, Hurdy, Mellow and the late 60s/early 70s albums. It's just not as dynamic, spacy or groove-oriented as the others.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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