Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Polls
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Exclusionsist or Inclusivist?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedExclusionsist or Inclusivist?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Poll Question: Does Contemporary Progressive in 2014 still constitute Prog?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
46 [83.64%]
9 [16.36%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Exclusionsist or Inclusivist?
    Posted: April 12 2014 at 05:35
Just an exploratory poll to attempt to get the feel for where the good folks on PA feel the site should be heading to ensure its survival into the future. I'm an old man (51) and would happily concede that I have probably been left behind by many of the developments in modern progressive music e.g I still believe that what constitutes Prog ceased to exist circa 1979. I was an Admin on PA for about a year and during that time I discerned a palpable dichotomy between the (mostly but not exclusively younger) members who believed that Prog should encompass developments in contemporary Rock c/f the (mainly but not exclusively older brigade) who held fast to the idea that Prog was a historic phenomenon. Given that Krautrock, Neo prog, Canterbury Scene and RPI are historic evaluations of prevailing styles of music should PA perhaps bite the bullet and decide if what is avowedly an archive should  encompass the contemporary?
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 05:58
I believe that current Prog bands are still building on the foundations led by the 70's giants. Why I would make such a statement ?? Perhaps if I present an example here : Thieves' Kitchen. I don't recall ever hearing this direction of Prog, the impeccable level of performance, and such cerebral arrangements as what I hear on 'One For Sorrow, Two For Joy'. It relies a lot on classic Fusion, but it heads somewhere totally different ; symphonic, folk, avante etc. To me, fresh and exciting. Maybe I'm crazy.......
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:03
No, I certainly don't think you crazy and thanks for your response. I just wanted to try to get some sort of feedback to where we're going in the future i.e. is PA a museum or is it a weather chart of where the progressive wind is blowing?
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:08
^ Where the progressive wind is blowing.... for sure. There are so many new exciting progressive bands out there. I don't think prog has ever suffered since 1979, we just understand it better and it's evolution has been a pleasure trip to witness.
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:09
Progressive winds are blowing stronger than ever!

Not only with bands aligned to the kind of styles that orginated in the vintage years, but others incorporating modern inluences to be truly progressive. I think both are amazing, and we should consider ourselves so lucky to have endless interpretations of `prog' and `progressive' music to enjoy!

`P.A' is cetainly not a museum! It's a ever-expanding document to what's come before and what is to come!
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:28
Yes, Prog has changed, deal with it!
Back to Top
rdtprog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams

Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:28
I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...
Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran
Back to Top
someone_else View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24329 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:32
I am old enough to have seen Abraham and some huge dinosaurs walking the earth, so there is a certain temptation to state that prog has ceased to be sometime during the late 1970's. Nevertheless I think there is evidence that prog is not an embalmed entity to be revered by a new generation of devotees, but still alive and kicking. A band like Deluge Grander, for instance, does not sound very much like one of those 70's giants to my ears. So I go for option #1.
Back to Top
Moogtron III View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:39
I agree with some of the people who stated before me that prog hasn't stopped to develop itself.
I vote for option 1.

Having said that, I don't like much of the prog that has been made after, let's say, the early nineties.
Granted, there's some stuff from the last decades that I enjoy, but what really pleases me is mainly old prog.
Back to Top
sleeper View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:44
Option 1. That said, it's been distinctly noticeable to me over the last few years that there's been an increasing number of people who, if not strictly limiting themselves to 70's prog, will only listen to that which is very clearly and closely derived from the 70's bands. Either that or those with a far broader definition of prog have left here/are ignoring this website. I'm not saying the bands described by the former are bad or wrong, far from it I quite enjoy many of them, but the people who will go far beyond that seem to be in ever decreasing numbers and I've increasingly become to feel like I'm on the musical fringes here (on a prog website, oh the irony!) (admittedly this has probably been exacerbated by my markedly decreased expenditure on music over the last few years).     
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:44
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:55
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...
No Hammill for you !!!
Back to Top
rdtprog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams

Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:00
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?


But i am sure this new creature would be something related to Prog.  I think that Prog went on a break in 1979, but came back in the 90's and continue as today. Call it Retro Prog, Neo Prog, Post-Prog, it's still Prog. We have to be always careful with the word evolution especially in a Darwinism sense.
Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:06
Classic prog undoubtedly reached its zenith in the 1970s in terms of popularity and I remain certain that many of the bands active then justifiably remain amongst the most revered in the genre.

But did prog die then?

No way! The new wave of symphonic prog bands who emerged in the early 80s (Marillion, IQ and the like), bands like Mostly Autumn, Riverside, Iona, Big Big Train and others too numerous to mention all brought something new to the table and I listen to them a lot, deriving huge enjoyment.

Many other bands also appeared, some of which I personally do not enjoy, do not consider to be true prog or even prog related at all, but are here because others do and have chosen to put them on here; I guess prog was always a pretty broad church anyway so I can cope with it.

I would actually say the opposite to Sleeper - I find far more discussion of more modern trends in prog now than when I joined this site; some of the classic 70s bands seem to be mentioned far less frequently now than then.

Bad thing? No - there's room for all tastes here, so long as people never forget where it all started.
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:07
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?


But i am sure this new creature would be something related to Prog.  I think that Prog went on a break in 1979, but came back in the 90's and continue as today. Call it Retro Prog, Neo Prog, Post-Prog, it's still Prog. We have to be always careful with the word evolution especially in a Darwinism sense.


Yep, that a valid perspective. I just want to try to attempt to arrive at some sort of consensus on where we're at on this potentially divisive  issue
Back to Top
twosteves View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4091 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 09:06
I suppose the first choice but I'd be curious to know how many modern prog bands really label or think of themselves as "prog ".
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:22
There always will be some new style(s) of rock music what people will call prog(ressive); prog is what "we" (audience) declare that this is prog.
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:23
Here's another example of a modern Prog band thinking outside the box - Panzerballett. Who'd have thought of melding Fusion with Tech Metal ?? Somewhat at odds with each other stylistically, but this is something totally new and brings a big smile to my face.
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:46
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Here's another example of a modern Prog band thinking outside the box - Panzerballett. Who'd have thought of melding Fusion with Tech Metal ?? Somewhat at odds with each other stylistically, but this is something totally new and brings a big smile to my face.

Maybe the greatest quality of a solid piece of contemporary progressive rock is just that it does not have anything to do with the late 60s / early 70s (symphonic) prog; In fact, the most important thing is that progressive rock - at least in a part - is separated now from the old forms, and the fact that it's already recognized by the audience as progressive rock aswell.


Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:54
Option 1 however I do believe that we have to question very carefully what is included in this inclusivity (I've had to include that word into Chrome's spell checker, oh the iron knee) and not lose complete sight of where it came from and what it is (this "Prog" thing). 

Contrary to popular belief, Prog is not evolving, it is our acceptance of what can be considered to be Prog that is changing with time, which is why there is this dichotomy between "Classic Prog" of the 1970s and everything that came after. 

If there was a nice unbroken linear evolution in Progressive Rock over the past 40 years then we would not be having this poll, or the hours of debate over the past 10 years of this site about whether band "Y" or band "Z" are "prog enough" to be included, or whether Extreme Metal, Post Rock and Math Rock should be here, or whether Avant, Zeuhl, Canterbury and Krautrock are Prog subgenres, or whether Electronic Prog has any validity at all... or condescending ellipsis-riddled posts on the adjectival use of progressive in the noun phrase Progressive Rock.

So, I'm all for inclusiveness but I think we can go too far in the rush to add anything and everything that sounds just a tad left of centre. 


Edited by Dean - April 12 2014 at 10:55
What?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.