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Stool Man 
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 Topic: 1963 - 50 years of Progressive Rock?
Posted: March 14 2013 at 03:22 |
Wilde Flowers formed in 1963, and from them later came Soft Machine & Caravan, and the entire Canterbury Sound subgenre. The Yardbirds formed in 1963, and from them later came Led Zeppelin & Renaissance. I'm sure there are other examples, but other people might know better than me. I'm planting a flag here for 1963 as the very very early beginnings of what would become Progressive Rock. Happy 50th!
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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richardh
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Posted: March 14 2013 at 16:01 |
The Beatles were already going at that point and they begat everything 
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Larree
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Posted: March 14 2013 at 16:56 |
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Spencer Davis Group, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Fugs, Manfred Mann, etc...
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Stool Man
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 02:19 |
 Larree wrote:
Spencer Davis Group, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Fugs, Manfred Mann, etc... |
What an amazing quartet! Can we invent a new subgenre that includes these four?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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CPicard
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 06:29 |
Stool Man wrote:
Larree wrote:
Spencer Davis Group, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Fugs, Manfred Mann, etc... |
What an amazing quartet! Can we invent a new subgenre that includes these four? |
Is that a joke? We had a rocksteady band, a folk band, and two British pop-rock bands. Okay, they were 60's bands playing guitars and drums, but that would be the sole common ground! Anyway, I wouldn't take 1963 as the possible starting year for every progressive rock: the Wilde Flowers were just a cover band and the Yardbirds intended to play pure blues music. I think it's a bit farfetched to take the formative years of these musicians as a starting point for progressive rock: if so, we should then add Little Richard or Chuck Berry as the first influences of progressive rock, just because the Beatles used to play their songs!
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 06:33 |
Stool Man wrote:
Larree wrote:
Spencer Davis Group, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Fugs, Manfred Mann, etc... |
What an amazing quartet! Can we invent a new subgenre that includes these four? |
The imfamous too hip to be hop proto ska n soul prog genre.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 07:59 |
Rock in 1963 
You had The Shadows but that's about as rock it got in 1963.
However, I think prog can be traced to Booker T & The MG's that year if you like.
Song Recorded/Released Artist
Green Onions June?/Aug ’62 Booker T. & The MG’s
Chinese Checkers ?/June ’63 Booker T. & The MG’s
Mo’ Onions ?/Dec ’63 Booker T. & The MG’s
1964 (Beatles, The Who, Animals etc) was the year that music definitely took a proggier direction.
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darkshade
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 11:07 |
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Frank Zappa was active since at least 1959.
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Stool Man
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 12:33 |
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and Miles Davis before then - but I'm talking about bands, not individuals.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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darkshade
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:24 |
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But Miles Davis wasn't making prog music until the mid-late 60s. Zappa had already written some prog/modern classical by 1961.
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:39 |
darkshade wrote:
Zappa had already written some prog/modern classical by 1961.
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Interesting. Where can I find this?
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darkshade
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 14:33 |
earlyprog wrote:
darkshade wrote:
Zappa had already written some prog/modern classical by 1961.
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Interesting. Where can I find this? |
The Lost Episodes and Mystery Disc. Particularly "Run Home Slow".
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 15 2013 at 15:05 |
^Thanks. Was able to borrow these at the library 
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NYSPORTSFAN
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Posted: March 16 2013 at 20:06 |
Stool Man wrote:
Wilde Flowers formed in 1963, and from them later came Soft Machine & Caravan, and the entire Canterbury Sound subgenre. The Yardbirds formed in 1963, and from them later came Led Zeppelin & Renaissance. I'm sure there are other examples, but other people might know better than me. I'm planting a flag here for 1963 as the very very early beginnings of what would become Progressive Rock. Happy 50th! |
Here is a recent article about the start of progressive rock.
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Stool Man
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Posted: March 17 2013 at 04:39 |
Nice article, thanks. Most of those bands were active in 1963, or at least they first met up in 1963 and formed their bands later. I'm merely stating a case for something to have started in 1963 - origin of bands which later became progressive or led to progressive rock.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 19 2013 at 16:15 |
darkshade wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
darkshade wrote:
Zappa had already written some prog/modern classical by 1961.
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Interesting. Where can I find this? |
The Lost Episodes and Mystery Disc. Particularly "Run Home Slow".
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A quick investigation reveals that Run Home Slow was recorded in 1963 and released in 1965 in the low budget western of the same title. I think, reminiscent of Morricone's western scores, after listening to it...I wonder who influenced whom?
The "Recorded-years-before-its-release" was typical of the early prog years.
Thanks for the info darkshade 
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chopper
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Posted: March 20 2013 at 08:03 |
Stool Man wrote:
The Yardbirds formed in 1963, and from them later came Led Zeppelin & Renaissance. |
If you're going to use a blues band as a foundation of prog, then you'd have to go back much earlier to the birth of the blues.
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TODDLER
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Posted: March 20 2013 at 10:10 |
CPicard wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
Larree wrote:
Spencer Davis Group, Bob Marley and the Wailers, The Fugs, Manfred Mann, etc... |
What an amazing quartet! Can we invent a new subgenre that includes these four? |
Is that a joke? We had a rocksteady band, a folk band, and two British pop-rock bands. Okay, they were 60's bands playing guitars and drums, but that would be the sole common ground!
Anyway, I wouldn't take 1963 as the possible starting year for every progressive rock: the Wilde Flowers were just a cover band and the Yardbirds intended to play pure blues music.
I think it's a bit farfetched to take the formative years of these musicians as a starting point for progressive rock: if so, we should then add Little Richard or Chuck Berry as the first influences of progressive rock, just because the Beatles used to play their songs!
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The progression of being progressive existed in rock music during the premature 50's "Rock n' Roll" . Artists being forced to make hit records..yet adapted guitar styles of "Rockabilly"/Blues licks which then..forced students of "Rock" to take lessons because it was required to put forward technique to play fast fingerpicking or string bending. A band like "The Ventures" often played a technical smooth guitar style that was polished to the max. The true elements of Progressive rock not only derived from Classical music , but from T.V. themes in the 50's and early 60's. No doubt many of the hokey "Sci-Fi" themes that Robert Fripp or Syd Barrett listened to when they were kids ..later influenced their ideas of writing. References can be made to such pieces as "Groon", "Pictures of a City", and later expanding on "Fracture". Fripp often used the same fingerings and voicings derived from the "Twilight Zone" and Bernard Hermann themes. Many guitarists grew up on "Sci-Fi" themes and it influenced them to study the modes in music vocabulary. As children..they became interested in "Sci-Fi" themes because they may have already been practicing an instrument and found oddball themes to be of dimensional measures. They could change/reverse the notes around and write actual pieces of their own ..creating Progressive Rock. These are all premature musical stages of progression that influenced developments of Progressive Rock and Jazz/Fusion. Logically it would be correct..(as embarrassing as it seems), to state this claim based around the lives of many musicians. Not everything was so cool as to derive from the influence of Edgar Varese.
Edited by TODDLER - March 20 2013 at 11:39
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TODDLER
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Posted: March 20 2013 at 11:27 |
Stool Man wrote:
Wilde Flowers formed in 1963, and from them later came Soft Machine & Caravan, and the entire Canterbury Sound subgenre. The Yardbirds formed in 1963, and from them later came Led Zeppelin & Renaissance. I'm sure there are other examples, but other people might know better than me. I'm planting a flag here for 1963 as the very very early beginnings of what would become Progressive Rock. Happy 50th! |
To quote direct artists influences on Progressive Rock would be challenging. When you're a devoted musician, what you hear is recorded into your brain and felt with your heart. When you're a musician ..your brain is like a computer of information that constantly resurfaces naturally during improvisation or during the development of ideas for a composition. That alone presents us with an on going process of the musician's communication between their brain, creative mind, and heart. Ideas/elements for Progressive Rock throughtout history originally derived from traditional European Folk music, elements of Jazz music, Classical, Blues, Rock n' Roll, ethnic/ancient styles and so logically the fact that those styles were the predecessor's to prog , then it makes perfect sense how the elements/ideas were formed. Ian Anderson often played "Blues' licks. He would often play notes like G, A, C, D, in the key of A , but put emphasis on the note D sharp also E flat. This overall gave a mystique to the sound of Progressive Rock. Sometimes the note had echo effects, sometimes it played a role in vocal harmonies. Something as simple as applying that note in Vangelis' "The Dragon" or a holding ending but dynamically fading note in the music of Gentle Giant is a very old concept. The creation of playing outside the melody derived from the "Black community" over a extensive course of time. All their creations were directly related to personal issues in their lives in America. All of their vital creations such as Jazz, Blues, and Rock n' Roll stem from their personal bloodline genetics. No one else created this music and that was obvious when other races of musicians in America slept on their doorsteps, called them on the phone, or even hounded them for lessons. So in point...the Black community deserves credit for the outside experimental playing in Progressive Rock. They deserve credit for developing the original idea. Classical music was often lifted in Prog by either performing/recording a historical piece or stealing signature lines to reverse and change some of the notes. Chord changes from 16th century pieces were often utilized by Procol Harum. Gentle Giant's vocal harmonies were abstract , yet commonly based on individual vocal parts in a sequence that derived from traditional European Folk music. The Arabic scales or harmonic tones were often utilized for "Rock theatre style compositions dating back to "Jesus Christ Superstar" , but later used in the music of Gong and many others. Simon and Garfunkel were influenced by Church music..not only Folk. They had a major impact on Jon Anderson and he attempted many times to go beyond adding their style to his. With prog, you have to research the influences and it gets very detailed. Tri-Tone voicings or "Devil's Interval" also played a huge role in Prog.
Edited by TODDLER - March 20 2013 at 11:45
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Stool Man
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Posted: March 20 2013 at 11:58 |
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Thanks TODDLER, I sit corrected
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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1963 - 50 years of Progressive Rock?
