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Cheesecakemouse
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Topic: Should there be a new Category? Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:13 |
I've written this suggestion on the "Help to improve the website" section of the forums. Some think its a great idea some think its a not so great idea. Basically a Select Albums Category, will have just the progressive albums of artists whose entire career is too diverse/commercial etc to be considered prog. For example David Bowies 'berlin' albums (Lodger, Low and Heroes) would be under this category while the rest would not be included, the same would go for Miles Davis fusion and would solve the debate with the Beatles since just their proto prog albums would be included while albums like A Hard Days Night would not be included (because they are clearly not prog). This would not mean Yes and Genesis in the 80s would be thrown out of the website, because their foundations are as prog bands, while Davis, Bowie and the Beatles etc roots/foundation is not prog but other style eg rock and jazz. Also Genesis and Yes etc 1980s albums are at the very least prog related. Anyway vote and discuss etc. I just want to see what this website on a whole thinks, I believe this will solve a lot of debate on this website and not reduce its integrity as a prog website.
ps. Check out the help to improve forum with the similar thread, because there may be some helpful info with this- check out the another crazy idea thread.
Edited by Cheesecakemouse - July 07 2006 at 21:29
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
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Points: 2537
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:19 |
Great Idea!
Hopefully those early Rainbow albums would get some recognition. Some Bowie, BOC etc
Edited by RycheMan - July 07 2006 at 21:20
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Dream Theater
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:21 |
I like the idea..
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Mad Bass Player
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:25 |
That would actually be pretty cool. Mabey some of Iron Maiden's albums could be on here.
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"Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything
else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?"
"Progressive.... yeah, that's it..."
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pepo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 192
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:27 |
And what would be the name for such category, partially prog, temporarily prog, converted to prog, pop-prog or perhaps each problematic group should have its own category as in GEPR.
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bhikkhu
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:32 |
How about prog albums by non-prog bands.
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Bern
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:34 |
That's one hell of an idea
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RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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micky
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:40 |
sounds like a good idea to me.... anything to get more prog albums,
where they belong... on this site.. even those by traditionally
'non-prog' groups.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Bj-1
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 21:42 |
That would have been great! Excellent idea
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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The Rock
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Joined: June 30 2005
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 22:40 |
Good Idea,I did suggest such a categorie a while ago.
Golden Earring should be on PA,big time!
They could easily fit in the proto,art rock or prog related category.
Why aren't they on PA is beyond me.
Their early albums(1968-77) all contains almost 100% prog.
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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"
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Cheesecakemouse
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 22:50 |
Everyone's pretty much unanimous on this (except one, there's always one). That means it should happen.
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Peter
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 22:59 |
Who will decide what's "prog" and what's not, and how much "prog" content on an album is enough for inclusion?
(And what the heck is prog, anyway? No two people seem able to agree on that.)
A subjective can o' worms, and it feels like a value judgement, to me (as if "not prog" = "not good enough for us").
Sorry, I'm the sole " no" vote (so far). I believe that if an artist is here, all of their albums should be here. Let the reviews discuss the "prog or not" thing -- it's a very subjective notion.
Plus, a LOT of existing reviews would get dumped, as you remove the "non prog" albums. (That's not going to happen.)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 23:03 |
Then there's no need for you to post this here. Anyone with a strong opinion about this would post there.
There has already been discussion about why we need classification by album methods before. It has interest, but it hasn't really been acted upon. It's a good idea, I think genre classification by album would clear up a lot of problems many members have with the current classification system, but it just simply hasn't been acted on yet.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Peter
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 23:13 |
I'm not trying to be difficult or contankerous, but I think this idea would only lead to more "prog or not"/"WTF is prog?" arguments.
(You see, prog does not really exist.)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 23:47 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult or contankerous, but I think this idea would only lead to more "prog or not"/"WTF is prog?" arguments.
(You see, prog does not really exist.) |
sure your entitled to your opinion, this is what make this site so great is differing views.
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 23:51 |
[
There has already been discussion about why we need classification by album methods before. It has interest, but it hasn't really been acted upon. It's a good idea, I think genre classification by album would clear up a lot of problems many members have with the current classification system, but it just simply hasn't been acted on yet. [/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm just trying to draw attention to it, the reason I posted it here was so people could vote on it, also this sub-category of threads trends to gather more interest giving a more general view of the website. Well if you guys have already thought about it I'm sure It'll happen soon, this is just a bit of a nudge in that direction.
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robertplantowns
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 00:02 |
I for one don't understand the obsession with finding out ultimately who's "truly prog" and who's not. It really doesn't matter and it would be a waste of time on this site. Also, isn't the whole point of proto-prog and prog-related categories is that they're NOT prog to begin with, so why should we be verifying their proginess when by the fact that they're in those categories it has already been established? Seems nonsensical to me. It seriously doesn't matter to me whether a band is labeled as prog, if you want to listen to the most innovative and proggy band, that's your choice, and if you want to listen to a band that's barely proggy at al, that's fine too. I think artists should be labeled by what the majority of their output is considered, and let the reviews speak for themselves! I also think this would take a disincentive out of reviews where people speak what they truly feel about the album and its "prog worthiness" rather than simply hitting a button to vote on a PROG FROM 1-10 scale. Maybe I'm the only one in here but this idea sounds ridiculous to me. I VOTE NO
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 00:24 |
robertplantowns wrote:
I for one don't understand the obsession with finding out ultimately who's "truly prog" and who's not. It really doesn't matter and it would be a waste of time on this site. Also, isn't the whole point of proto-prog and prog-related categories is that they're NOT prog to begin with, so why should we be verifying their proginess when by the fact that they're in those categories it has already been established? Seems nonsensical to me. It seriously doesn't matter to me whether a band is labeled as prog, if you want to listen to the most innovative and proggy band, that's your choice, and if you want to listen to a band that's barely proggy at al, that's fine too. I think artists should be labeled by what the majority of their output is considered, and let the reviews speak for themselves! I also think this would take a disincentive out of reviews where people speak what they truly feel about the album and its "prog worthiness" rather than simply hitting a button to vote on a PROG FROM 1-10 scale. Maybe I'm the only one in here but this idea sounds ridiculous to me. I VOTE NO |
I consider prog by the albums more than the band, thats the problem if we rely on prog related and proto it leaves many questions unanswered, unfortunately with what you speak of with the reviews is flawed, because if you are saying its the reviews that speak for it that could lead to the problem of allowing every style of music in and just allowing reviews to guide it, that means I could put Boy George(I don't like his music btw) on the website and wait for reviews to sort it out, thats why we have and admin team to sort these things out, and thats why we have these discussions to see if they have any merit, and if the admin like the idea. We can't have Miles Davis or David Bowie on prog related etc because their body of work is too different but some particular albums such as Davis's Bitches Brew anre important Milestones in prog and I believe that more people on this website should find out about it and that people review it, and appreciate it's significance to prog history.
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Raff
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 00:36 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 00:43 |
The big question...Who decides which albums are really Prog?
I would love to add Their Satanic Majesties Request (Rolling Stones) as Psychedelic but not so sure how easy will it be to manage albums by absolutely non proog bands.
We have people already asking why is STYX or Be Bop´Deluxe here, imagine if somebody would believe some Earth Wind & Fire or Progressive House album should be added.
The idea is good, but has it's problems.
Iván
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