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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 15:47 |
James Lee wrote:
LOL, Blacksword and I agree on many things...but this isn't one of them. 
I LOVE Brian May's guitar sound!
And for about the same period that Genesis was releasing their truly prog albums, Queen was also quite arguable prog by nature. I challenge anyone to listen to their first three or four albums and not find prog rock elements in abundance! Queen II, especially, seems to me to be almost stereotypically 70s prog, with the fantasy imagery and extended narrative pieces.
Of course, some of their latter-day releases are laughable...but how many 70s artists (even the ones with much less taste-defying tendencies) aged well? Once the 80s set in, it was either go ridiculously big or go underground, and Queen was not a band that could have flourished as a cult favorite.
But as with any band (I won't name names- that's just asking for trouble), I don't really care if they're in the database or not.
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I would agree that Queen II is their most prog album. 'White Queen (as it began)' and 'March of the Black Queen' are two gems of prog IMO. I can take or leave most of their output, but I recognise them as being a very talented and eclectic band.
I dont care who ends up on the archives either, as long as it can be argued that there are progressive elements in their music. I think it important to diffrentiate between prog ROCK and progressive music generally. I regard artists like Aphex Twin as progressive, but would never expect him to appear in the archives, for one simple reason..he doesn't make ROCK music 
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 16:52 |
Blacksword:
On a personal note (not officialy), I could not disagree more. I have owned Queen's first six albums since day 1, and love them all. And I have been a prog fanatic since 1968, and was "there" for the release of In the Court, and everything that followed in prog rock.
In this regard, I never, ever considered anything by Queen "prog" until certain elements on Sheer Heart Attack, and even those are spotty. It was not until Night at the Opera that the band displayed anything that could legitimately be classified as "prog."
Queen I and Queen II are excellent rock albums with nice proto-prog touches. Brian's guitar is certainly a "unique" touch, and the albums have some interesting not-quite-standard arrangements. But they are not, by any means, prog.
Peace.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 17:12 |
Terrific band indeed, I had the pleasure of seeing them live a couple of times in the early 70's. There's no doubt they "progressed" rapidly with their early albums, explored astonishing new avenues, and gave more complex rock styles mass exposure and thus acceptability.
I agree with Maani though, I don't think they were ever a prog band. I suspect Freddie will be having a litle chuckle to himself right now at the thought.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 17:42 |
Well If Queen Isn't Prog, Then Kiss isn't Prog either,
neither can David Bowie, Elton John, 10CC, The Sweet, Mud, AC/DC, Gary Glitter, The Eagles, Chicago, The Golden Earring, and many more be considered prog.
However If Queen Is Prog, Then Kiss still isn't Prog,
But David Bowie, 10CC, and chicago, could be considered prog aswel.
And that's where the trouble begins.
I think the moderators have an (important) task of keeping this site as prog-orrientated as possible, At a certain point when all prog-bands are included there will be included the borderline cases, they then pave the way for bands with progsensibilities, once they are included there will be bands with faint similarities to those bands who will be included aswel, in the end all music will have found it's way to this site.
It seems to me that, as is currently the case, the moderators need to redefine progmusic. so those borderline cases won't get in, and they may find that they've included all bands that can be considered prog. THERE IS NO NEED TO EXPAND just for expanding, there is a point when you've covered it all.
As is suggested in earlier threads there may be room for an additional subgenre (populair-prog or alternative prog) but it isn't necesary. The format of this site is great, but with to many borderline cases I'm afraid we will lose the essence of this site.
Just a thought. Isn't it possible to create a page where all those borderline cases get a mention, without actualy including them in the archive, just a small summary, explanation why they aren't considered prog and a link to the bands homepage.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 20:41 |
we already havent styx on here! isnt that another for you people hehe
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The Worthless Recluse
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: January 22 2005 at 22:27 |
tuxon:
Will you marry me?  
Actually, your post should be required reading for every member on the site, as it makes a few points that are vital to the continued integrity of the site, and the impossible job that I - and even moreso Max and Rony - have in trying to maintain that integrity.
I'm practically in tears with gratitude... 
Peace.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 01:13 |
Maani,
Thanks for the approval, 
But no I can't marry you, I'm sorry if that brakes your heart 
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 01:33 |
miscellaneous category for landmark, classics, and
semi classics that were produced during a bands
progressive era, removing the pop or overtly
experimental jazz from the already accepted artists.
And if lower mongolia had a prog band in 1856 that
no one ever heard of and those that did found it
rubbish dont put them on the site. However if ireland
had 10 bands that produced some sort of
progressive music only say Horslips and Fruupp
were of high ranking, give us Horslips and Fruupp
and dont worry about the smalz. If Twisted Angular
Fishermen made an album or career out of living off
Genesis or Yes-cloning dump um, only the best
Genesis, Yes clones for the kids. If a band cant
figure out if they want to be melodic or complex in
one song, shifting tempos 20 times in 5 minutes
and sounds like Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, King
Crimson, Gentle Giant, Rush and the Blue Magoos,
dump em! There stuck in childhood fantasies and
are not the brains you want to be feeding you if you
are to progress. You cant have it all in 5 minutes and
you dont really want it!
Quality not Quantity!!!
==============
keep on rockin in the free world
Edited by DallasBryan
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 11:42 |
maani wrote:
tuxon:
Will you marry me?  
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Maani, you two timer, I'll never trust you again! You promised.... (I've sold the ring you gave me!)
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 11:54 |
Easy Livin wrote:
maani wrote:
tuxon:
Will you marry me?  
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Maani, you two timer, I'll never trust you again! You promised.... (I've sold the ring you gave me!)
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...One ring to find them all, and IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM!....
Uh oh -- looks like there's dirty work afoot....
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Pety
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Slovakia
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 15:25 |
Tuxon,
I really love Queen and I think their first five albums are brilliant and include many prog moments, but you say that the Invisible man is prog song? or Radio Gaga, Rain must fall, Delilah? are you serious?
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 16:08 |
I was stretching the definition a little further each album
But still, listen to the mentioned songs'in the same order as i put them down and you'll see what I mean (I think)
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Pety
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Slovakia
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 16:14 |
ok, I'll try it
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29507
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Posted: January 23 2005 at 18:41 |
Queen were not a prog band EVER.Blatant goalpost moving!
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Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 05:09 |
Don't add Queen!
Fat Bottomed Girls...
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zappa123
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2004
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 10:34 |
Now even Queen appears here?Nothing against them but prog?
RADIO GA GA RADIO GU GU .....
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sigod
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 11:26 |
Another argument and more fuel for this kind of thread to have it's own area.
That said, I bloody LOVE this album. Ogre Battle....scortchio!!
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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slipperman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 217
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Posted: January 24 2005 at 11:30 |
Tuxon's compartmentalizing of their catalog was an excellent read, and yeah, I definitely consider them prog too. Seems to be the minority opinion tho'...
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...it is real...it is Rael...
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