A new prog sub-genre : post punk

Speaking of avatars, I am quite fond of yours. Always thought Waters looked best with a beard. 

Indeed, indeed. 

Man Overboard wrote: On-topic, I'm unsure how I'd feel about post-punk being added as a genre to the archives.  Our all-inclusive policy has already made a mess (in the eyes of some) of the whole thing, and certainly increased the workload of our collaborators who give their time for no compensation other than the task itself.  There are many genres influenced by prog that are not (see: nu-metal), and many that had no root in prog but developed complexity independently.  Must they all be catagorized here?  Most of those bands are well-covered by the large and hardcore fanbases of their respective genres elsewhere.

Thumbs up to JLocke and ManOverboard!

People need to understand that just because something is their favourite genre/artist/band, does not automatically mean they are prog rock.

I REALLY try to like the all-inclusive policy of the site, but frankly, more often than not, i find it is shamelessly abused.

And one more thing.... I am convinced that if you try hard enough, you'll come up with arguements that JUST ABOUT EVERY artist has (or had at some point) progressive and forward thinking elements in their music (I'm not referring to britney, gaga and the like as artists). So please spare me the rhetorics as to why MY DYING BRIDE for example are prog.

My final point is, the all inclusive site policy, has done (in my opinion of course) more bad than good to this site that I so dearly love. And it is because of this love that I bother writing these things, although I know that one or two posts from here someone will suggest that I just stop visiting alltogether.

P.S.: Post-Punk as a term refers to bands like joy division, the Cure, Echo and the bunnymen, Siouxie and the Banshees etc etc. For the love of god, please accept that they have NOTHING TO DO with prog rock.
 

As much as I love post-punk (even more than prog itself) I think this smacks of a reaction to the three metal sub genres and post rock/math rock that now exist on PA. If PA is to continue to be a source of information on Progressive Rock music then I fear the inclusion of post-punk might just be a step too far for many. Alternatively, it might just be the push that topples us over into becoming a Rock Music site. Personally, I'm getting weary of reading endorsements or rejections of music for inclusion based on criteria that no-one seems prepared to admit that no-one on PA has ever been able to define satisfactorily. We are like children attempting to complete a jigsaw puzzle based entirely on our collective memory of what the picture on the missing box may have resembled.

Judging by the pace of recent events, all that's missing is a Post-Prog category.


Edited by ExittheLemming - February 18 2010 at 03:17

Man Overboard wrote: Waters is a man who only gets better-looking with age.

^ You might want to take a look at the "classic artists" list on this site, or the one on Wikipedia, both of which obviously include Joy Division, The Cure, Echo and the Bunnymen and Siouxie and the Banshees.

Edited by Vompatti - February 18 2010 at 05:21

ExittheLemming wrote: As much as I love post-punk (even more than prog itself) I think this smacks of a reaction to the three metal sub genres and post rock/math rock that now exist on PA. If PA is to continue to be a source of information on Progressive Rock music then I fear the inclusion of post-punk might just be a step too far for many. Alternatively, it might just be the push that topples us over into becoming a Rock Music site. Personally, I'm getting weary of reading endorsements or rejections of music for inclusion based on criteria that no-one seems prepared to admit that no-one on PA has ever been able to define satisfactorily. We are like children attempting to complete a jigsaw puzzle based entirely on our collective memory of what the picture on the missing box may have resembled. Judging by the pace of recent events, all that's missing is a Post-Prog category.

Iain, speaking personally, I am not in favour of having a SUBGENRE called post-anything, and definitely not as a reaction to anything else. I am rather in favour of looking at some of the bands that have been mentioned here with some objectivity in a purely musical sense - using our ears in approaching them, and no judging them on the basis of tags and classifications. Unlike others, I am not the kind of person who thinks, 'it's good, so it must be prog'. My opinions are based on what I perceive with my ears, not on what I read on a magazine or website. I am quite sure this is the case for many of the people who posted here.

Bonnek wrote: Well I've done my bit in the previous post which I won't repeat here. Commenting on the above, it could be that PA might have to make a choice between continuing to bicker over the admission of every individual artist, or go forward with the ambition to be an all Rock inclusive Archive. A recent post by TheGazzardian (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64648) hints in similar directions. Especially Finnforest's suggestion to have a "straight 'rock' sub section " sounds very interesting.

Like it or not, this is the direction other sites have been taking - even if they keep stating that they are prog. Sea of Tranquility, which is one of my favourite reviews site (as a reviewer, I like to compare and contrast my opinion with that of others), has recently added a review of The Clash's London Calling to their database (for non-believers, here it is: http://www.seaoftranquility.org/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=8820), and they are increasingly broadening their horizons. While this is not necessarily a direction I'd like PA to take, I believe that purism is on the way out as regards prog magazines and websites. People asking for the inclusion of very disparate artists are just a reflection of this trend.

I've never had a hard time "defining" prog (though that's not to say it's a black and white definition).  I raise an eyebrow at the sheer number of folks here who honestly think prog cannot be defined in some meaningful sense.  If it can't, wherefore this website?

As for "post punk," I think two "post" categories are already quite enough (possibly superfluous), and with all the dreary clones that inhabit the post rock category (many of which- I'm sorry- are not prog at all), I honestly cannot see the point.