How can metal be prog?

Jim Garten wrote: Personally, I find if a thread puts forward an argument or debate to which I can find nothing positive to contribute, it can be better all round for me to abstain from posting, as opposed to inserting randomly negative comments which serve no other purpose than to wind up those who may want to discuss the subject concerned.

Avantgardehead wrote: Heh, happiness is severely underrated. I can't stand most sad music (and especially depressing music like Opeth) because it doesn't sound genuine and I think of trendy teenagers moping around, writing poetry, and humming lines from these sad songs with quivering voice and teary eyes. Although some good sad music would be maudlin of the Well and The Dears.

Henry Plainview wrote: I don't listen to metal. In fact, I don't have any friends

You blew your chance of getting one when you failed to notice that it's Art Zoyd who is cold and robotic and not Xenakis

I think this guy says there's no such thing as prog metal because he doesn't like it. Saying stuff like, "Only a few listens, and then you're done" only means that he's unable to see the creative aspects of progressive and extreme/tech metal.  I beleive he has not realized that music is a subjective thing and that the genre progressive metal exists whether he likes it or not.

Avant-jazz seems to have jazz-fusion, prog, and avant-garde beat! But finding the good stuff is a chore....

topofsm wrote: I think this guy says there's no such thing as prog metal because he doesn't like it.

I think he is saying that prog(ressive) metal isn't Prog.

I don't think that in itself necessarily have to be thought of as an insult, uninformed or trolling. It just comes across like it here.

Any random listen of the streams in the prog metal section and most of the albums I've checked out, shares so little with prog and so much with plain metal I'm not surprised people keeps bringing this issue up. More knowledgable people than Progmonster2008 (and most of us) thinks the same. I've seen this done in a more enlightened and openminded way by others, here and elsewhere, previously.

Prog metal with a strong relation to what naturally belongs on this site, exists. Fine. But I rarely agree with you metalheads what should qualify. Most of you seem to think that an outrageous concept, keyboards and some classicalsounding topping (still mainly as primitively incorporated in the music/compositions as in Days of Future Passed from '67), is more than enough to transform ordinary metal into prog.

^This doesn't go against anything I wrote.

All genres of music shares some elements with prog. I think superficial elements like the ones I mentioned in my previous post shouldn't count at all. I accept that there's a genre called progressive metal. I still have a problem with the flood of pompous yet simple, vulgar and embarrassing so-called progressive metal added here.

rogerthat wrote: But isn't there  pompous but simple and embarrassing prog rock? I will not give examples because I don't want a fresh derail due to objections to my post.  But there is, and you know it.

Well, as long as its still prog rock.

To me this is about what kind of progessive metal should qualifiy as prog enough. I used the words pompous, simple and vulgar to discribe how many bands I shouldn't be here sound to my ears.

rogerthat wrote:   We cannot go by whether they "deserve" to be in the database but whether they satisfy the criteria.

Sure. Some bands might fill the criterias to be progressive metal, but still considered too simple to be here. I know it happens, but not often enough, imo.

rogerthat wrote: Yes, this is a progressive rock resource so what is progressive metal doing here if its collaborator says it is not progressive rock?

I'm no collabrator and neither is topicsarter, nor do we agree. I just think there's to much dumb, overblown metal added.


Edited by Rocktopus - December 10 2008 at 07:50

Rocktopus wrote: I used the words pompous, simple and vulgar to discribe how many bands I shouldn't be here sound to my ears.

"Pompous": I'm pretty sure than many prog rock bands could also be called that ...

"Simple": You may have a point there. But then again there's an entire sub genre (Tech/Extreme) of prog metal which can hardly be called simple. If anything, I'd say that the fact that metal is generally more riff oriented than rock leads to a more "episodic" type of songwriting, with less intricate form than prog rock - or rather, than some of the best prog rock bands achieved. Not all prog rock is on the same level as Gentle Giant.

"Vulgar": Why, absolutely. This may even be the most basic difference between rock and metal. However, it is also a matter of taste.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: "Simple": You may have a point there. But then again there's an entire sub genre (Tech/Extreme)

I'm not writing about that subgenre.