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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: December 14 2008 at 13:55 |
Okay guys - I think this has been played out enough and has gone further off-topic than I think either of you intended - tagging and genrefication are two different classification techniques meant for different purposes, in theory they are not incompatible systems such that it is possible to run the two simultaneously without causing conflict. However, they do require a different mind-sets, and I think that is where the problem lies here.
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What?
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 14:10 |
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How can Metal be prog?
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36152
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 14:24 |
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Sure it's been said before, but Metal can be Prog when it's Progressive Metal.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 14:28 |
Those up there were good posts , I see overtagging as unnecesary. It may give an idea if you are choosing between lots of album but you can get much better info by reading a review. Besides words like "magnificent" or "technical" can be pretty subjective. I mean Genesis is pretty technical if we compare them to FM rock bands , but they are not technical when compared to Mahavushnu Orchestra.
Edited by crimson87 - December 14 2008 at 14:29
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 15:16 |
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O.K. so now the debate is no longer as to whether Metal can be prog, but how many sub-genres of prog are out there in the real world.
So the thread should be closed and a new one opened that discusses the myriad metal movements in modern day music !
O.K. !
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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PROGMONSTER2008
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 610
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:11 |
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Opeth have such a good singer, but he's a waste of talent when he growls. Damnation is a fairly good album and Window Payne is very good but Deliverance is a poor album. Just a waste imo
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:17 |
 Mr ProgFreak wrote:
Have I ever said anything negative about yours? Honestly, I can't understand where all this negativity is coming from - and the same applies to The T's recent post. You hate Progfreak.com, we're all a bunch of idiots there for using tagging - got the message. But can't we collaborate and help one another even if we use different approaches?
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Mike I like you a lot but you really have to grow up. So any comment against tagging is an attack on your website? And any opposition to tagging means I'm saying you tag-users are idiots?
Mike, having a Simpson avatar is Ok but don't start acting like one. You're so much better than this. I DON'T LIKE TAGS. I STILL USE YOUR WEBSITE EVERY SINGLE DAMN WEEK AND IT'S QUITE USEFUL. I DON'T LIKJE TAGS. TAG-USERS ARE FINE BUT I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM, OK????? They are neither idiots nor do I "hate Progfreak". Damn! You sound like the George W Bush of prog websites: "you're either with us or against us". 
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:25 |
debrewguy wrote:
O.K. so now the debate is no longer as to whether Metal can be prog, but how many sub-genres of prog are out there in the real world.
So the thread should be closed and a new one opened that discusses the myriad metal movements in modern day music !
O.K. !
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There's as many sub-genres as words are in a dictionary! 
Yesterday I found out about "medico-legal" metal..... At last, I never thought I would hear that. Hey Ivan, that may be the metal for you, for it's "legal" side! 
Really.... The tagging discussion was because of mathcore and metalcore.... why don't we just call them sh*tcore and we're done with it? (no, there are actually a few good exceptions.... a few)
If I entered that discussion and I dared to mention that i oppose tagging is because, well, I oppose tagging! And in this case I'm a conservative (very rare event btw): whenever i see people demanding change (here: tagging) I have to jump and defend the status quo (here: genres and no tags). I'm sorry but that's the PA I like.
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:28 |
The T wrote:
Sorry my beloved metallers but in this case I clearly side with
this position. While it could be very valuable for us to be using those
ridiculous names in our own metal website, in a progressive rock
website in which, as I have said, we are just a side genre (it's my opinion.... we're not a prog sub genre but a prog side genre),
we don't need to be confusing people, including ourselves, with tags
like "progressive technical mathematical scientifical galileian
hardcore post-christian satanic white metal" or anything of the sorts.
We have the perfect number of sub genres, all of them sharing the
" metal" part of the name. I know there is something called
progressive-black metal for example (a genre i really like a lot), but
for the outsider (for metal) prog fan, calling it EXTREME
progmetal should be enough. Yes, we can find 4349837403 subdivisions if
we want, but let's do that in ProgMetalTheTYourLord.com, which will be
launched in 2066. 
Really, I'm supposed to know my metal and that byzantine
discussion about "mathcore" and "metalcore" really lost me. I've always
been opposed to extra tag-zation (I've alwats mantained
Mike), and even in a metal website I would only use words that would
help distinguish between SUBGENRES, not between subjective opinions
from members which, as it's obvious, could generate 3928302932 tags for
one single album.
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I'm not really sure, it this seems to me more like ridiculing than like constructive criticism. Today I worked 8 hours on improving PF. You're welcome to ignore that, but please don't insinuate that no person in their right mind would use it for anything else than the genre charts, or maybe the signature service. I am a grown up man, and I can live with posts like this, I'd just appreciate a little respect for my work.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:33 |
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
The T wrote:
Sorry my beloved metallers but in this case I clearly side with this position. While it could be very valuable for us to be using those ridiculous names in our own metal website, in a progressive rock website in which, as I have said, we are just a side genre (it's my opinion.... we're not a prog sub genre but a prog side genre), we don't need to be confusing people, including ourselves, with tags like "progressive technical mathematical scientifical galileian hardcore post-christian satanic white metal" or anything of the sorts.
We have the perfect number of sub genres, all of them sharing the " metal" part of the name. I know there is something called progressive-black metal for example (a genre i really like a lot), but for the outsider (for metal) prog fan, calling it EXTREME progmetal should be enough. Yes, we can find 4349837403 subdivisions if we want, but let's do that in ProgMetalTheTYourLord.com, which will be launched in 2066.
Really, I'm supposed to know my metal and that byzantine discussion about "mathcore" and "metalcore" really lost me. I've always been opposed to extra tag-zation (I've alwats mantained Mike), and even in a metal website I would only use words that would help distinguish between SUBGENRES, not between subjective opinions from members which, as it's obvious, could generate 3928302932 tags for one single album.
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I'm not really sure, it this seems to me more like ridiculing than like constructive criticism. Today I worked 8 hours on improving PF. You're welcome to ignore that, but please don't insinuate that no person in their right mind would use it for anything else than the genre charts, or maybe the signature service. I am a grown up man, and I can live with posts like this, I'd just appreciate a little respect for my work.
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Mike... Mike ... please.... this is too much. Please, just tell me: where in my whole damn post did I use the words "Progfreak" even ONCE??? I even joke that one day I'll have a prog- metal website where all metal subgenres will be listed... So.... please.... WHERE????
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: December 14 2008 at 16:44 |
Ok, 15 pages... I think that everything was said and much more.
Thread closed.
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Guigo
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How can metal be prog?
