Should Metallica be in the forum?

 

Here's an example of what's going to happen with the Metallica addition.

 

Well, it happened with Radiohead, Queen and The Beatles, so it's no big deal.

 

People always come back to the best resource for Prog on the Internet

 

Am I the only person that didn't miss that play on Sad But True? I thought it was hilarious

 

 

 

And I'm now wondering if the challenge will be taken - or not *laughs*

 

I've drawn these from the first 12 pages of this thread, and tried very hard not to be selective and paint an opinionated picture - these are all drawn as points made in individual threads, rather than anything else.

 

I think it's true to say that the PRO arguments look a LOT stronger than the CONS, any one of which can be easily negated.

 

Of course, there are many more musical arguments - this is simply a summary of this thread, not all of the arguments to date. There are some much stronger arguments in earlier threads.

 

Let's also maintain the perspective of Prog Metal, which, we've already ascertained in another thread, is different to Prog Rock in the same way that Avant, Rio, Krautrock and Canterbury are different.;

 

 

 

much of their early work was done with prog ideals

 

Arguably much of Metallica's early is indeed more progressive in nature than Queensryche

 

Metallica were more prog in the 80s than many 80s prog bands, no question

 

Ride The Lightning: (...) not entirely progressive in nature, but again, pushed heavy metal compositional boundaries to greater heights and hence a degree of prog ideals

 

Master Of Puppets: Prog. Not a doubt. Extended  and a lot of the time far from straight forward compositons, odd time signatures, very thematic album and just more complex than most anything ever really done in the heavy metal field

 

..And Justice For All: Prog. Not a doubt. The music had become pretty challenging compositionally and I could think of whole "prog" albums less compex than AJFA. Hell, even some of Rush's proggier moments were still less proggy than AJFA could be.

 

I'm gonna have to say RTL is the real deal too, so change my position to Metallica having released 3 full prog albums.

 

If there is ANY band that influenced progressive-metal (even the flag bearers and favorite band of mine DREAM THEATER) and which released three albums of full progressive-metal, that is Metallica.

 

one prog album/composition/riff/minute/second is enough to guarantee the addition

 

influences/influencing counts more than music itself

Kill 'Em All - 1983 - Not really prog, though a few songs lean towards it, especially The Four Horsemen (Mechanixxx for you Megadeth fans, only more prog). Mostly great thrash metal with great play on themes

 

Ride the Lightning - 1984 - Mostly prog, they're still coming off their full thrash assault days, but the compositions are now much more elaborate and technical. Also their heaviest album IMO

 

Master of Puppets - 1986 - Full prog metal. Every song, even the 2 bookended thrash songs, are big prog. This was probably their peak. Then you have a song like Orion, which is barely even metal, but a beautiful full out prog rock song.

 

...And Justice For All - 1988 - Full prog metal. This time the songs are longer and waaaayy more complex. Odd time signatures everywhere, epic compositions and containing their heaviest song in Blackened. The production sound is cool, i just wish there was some bass.

 

I have often pointed out on here that their album Master of Puppets was one of the first 80s albums to capture that introverted {existential/spiritual real me vs the plastic rest of you'll} early 70s emotional musical and lyrical feel that typified so much of classic prog rock bands, especially Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath and Gabriel led Genesis.

 

Notice the rhythmical gimmick starting at about 2 minutes, when the drums get "out of sync" with the rest of the band by one 4th note. Dream Theater would use this technique many times later on, becoming one of the (many) trademarks of prog metal.

 

...if you want to understand why Metallica is just progressive as many 'prog' artists, you have to listen to it in the correct context, and you absolutely must, know heavy metal history. We keep forgetting Voivod, one the other pioneers of combining thrash with prog to make progressive metal. Listen to them as well, and that will help to make people see how Metallica were truly progressive.

 

Metallica really threw out the rule book with their compositions on the 3 prog metal albums they did

Metallica should, for reasons already mentioned by others, be included automatically in the Progressive Metal category.

Well, let's use this site's characterization of progressive rock.

Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp: Admittedly, Metallica's longest pieces approach 10 minutes, but many of them feature "intricate melodies and harmonies."

Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness. Many early 1970s progressive rock bands (especially German ones) featured lyrics concerned with left-wing politics and social issues.
Ignoring their debut album, the remainder of Metallica's work (even during their '90's nadir) exhibit such themes.

Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play: It's well known that Master of Puppets is about manipulation and ...And Justice for All is about injustice.

Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently.

Metallica has some songs in 5/4 and 7/4, for example.  They also "play" with tempo, i.e. although the actual tempo doesn't change one perceives that the tempo has slowed (or quickened as the case may be).  More frequently, they employ intricate and dynamic rhythms.

Inclusion of classical pieces on albums: They don't perform classical pieces, but they do incorporate some rudimentary classical techniques (e.g., the opening leads in "Fade to Black" and "One").

An aesthetic linking the music with visual art... (covers of RTL, MoP and AJFA)

Metallica expanded the limits of thrash, using speed and volume not for their own sake, but to enhance their intricately structured compositions." (ALLMusic)

 

They would be an excellent fit with the collection of bands already here.

 

always thought of Puppets and Justice as prog-metal albums

 

Dream Theater used Metallica riffs in some of their early songs, and covered the "Master of Puppets" album).

 

Hetfield has written a number of songs based on classic literature.

 

No

 

I don't see influence as being reason enough to add something like Metallica to this site

 

My biggest issue is that I don't see how it would benefit the site at all...

 

I also don't believe in retroactively labeling something, especially all these influential bands.

 

This isn't "Anything that at any point ever vaguely resembled something in the general vicinity of the outer reaches of the outer reaches of the most liberal definition of prog rock Archives," it's "Prog Archives"

 

An 8-minute thrash metal song is still a thrash metal song. Oh look, classical-ish acoustic guitar parts and leads! Um, that's progressive!

 

No

 

I don't think metallica shoul be added in the forum, after all, it's about progressive rock and metallica do not bear even a slight hint of progressive.

 

I think: NO, despite somewhat "Progressive" elements in his music, Metallica is pure Heavy Metal creation,

 

No I think they are not even close to the word "prog", and I don't see particoular musicianship in their albums either and I think Lars Ulrich's drumming is very weak (remember Metallica fans, that's just my opinion)
 
So Hetflied might want to say to his interview that are other bands that do elaborate, and intricate long solos with multiple tempo changes, etc, and he and Metallica, don't interest at all.

 

Because their music is not prog. You can tell they are Metal, Hard Rock, whatever you want but they are not prog, absolutely. Instrumentals like "Metal Militia", may be pleasant, but not prog.

 

As musician skills, well, the solos are all the same, and have you ever heard mr. Hammett doing the "One" solo in concert correctly?

 

note when you enter a music record store you don´t find Metallica in the progressive section by the way.

I not agree that Metallica is progressive

 

a general opinion in a simple internet swarm discover: Metallica are not a Progressive Rock Group. And that's a fact.

 

No way, wake up collaborators, Metallica on PA, come on, they are trash al the way in the early  years, now something that only they know what are palying. Definetly not prog

 

site credibility

 

Kill em' All does not figure a prog album, his playing is like a heavy metal band, great riffs but nothing new
Tight and quick tempo, but nothing progressive i mean nothing revolutionary in terms of solid musicianship,  Early Tigers of Pan Tang fans or fans of Saxon's early albums like Demin and Leather, should like this album.

 

(Ride The Lightning)
As for the music, Anthrax, Metallica and Slayer have more or less the same schematic music.

no way is Metallica prog! I think of them as a band who took a variety of important ideas in metal, did them really well, and made them accessible to a larger public, rather than strictly innovating. Master of Puppets?

 

What about Awaken the Guardian, or Energetic Disassembly?

 

Lots of bands were playing faster, harder, and longer, before Metallica,