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Styx Grand Illusion
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Poll Question: Is this Prog Rock or AOR?
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13 [52.00%]
12 [48.00%]
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bardberic View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 06 2022 at 20:43
I'm struggling to make this determination myself, as I reclassify some albums on my computer. This was right at the crossroads of the two genres. To my surprise, I'm finding myself leaning more towards proper prog rock for this one - it wasn't until their next album that they really deeply delved into AOR.

Come Sail Away is really the only AOR track on this one imo. The reset is prog.

What do you think?

Edit 1: I've made up my mind... it's prog rock. Not quite AOR, yet, imo. Still want to hear your opinions.
Edit 2: Even Come Sail Away is proper prog, imo...


Edited by bardberic - August 06 2022 at 20:51
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Manuel View Drop Down
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Grand Illusion is certainly prog.
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I've never considered them to be a prog band. There wasn't really anything "progressive" about their sound, particularly when this album came out in 1977. It had all been done previously.
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bardberic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Grand Illusion is certainly prog.

Thank you! I thought I'm going crazy or something. Everyone, even on RYM, is telling me I'm wrong lol


Edited by bardberic - August 06 2022 at 21:20
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bardberic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I've never considered them to be a prog band. There wasn't really anything "progressive" about their sound, particularly when this album came out in 1977. It had all been done previously.


Well then what about bands like Spock's Beard? They haven't done anything that hadn't yet been done. Or Wilderun?

Prog doesn't necessarily mean inventive... if that were the case, then Korn would be prog, which they certainly were not...


Edited by bardberic - August 06 2022 at 21:41
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I would say this particular album is probably half and half. Styx are one of those not quite prog bands imo though.
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bardberic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I would say this particular album is probably half and half. Styx are one of those not quite prog bands imo though.


That's exactly what I'm feeling, and why it is so hard for me to choose on my computer.

I suppose I'm going with progressive rock for all tracks except COme Sail Away and The Grand Finale, and I'm still deciding for Superstars

Edit 1: I decdided to keep the whole album as progressive rock, but I labeled the version of Come Sail Away sung by Eric Cartman from the South Park Chef Aid album as AOR just because this song really does cross the boundaries of both genres

Edit 2: Actually I even kept the Eric Cartman version as Prog Rock as it did NOT sound right when comparing it to other AOR tracks.


Edited by bardberic - August 06 2022 at 23:35
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Accessible, but Prog nonetheless.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I would say this particular album is probably half and half. Styx are one of those not quite prog bands imo though.

Grand Illusion is probably their best album in my opinion, but I think this is where I stand, too. 
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The Grand Illusion is prog, but neither very innovative nor particularly good (or bad) prog.
Prog does not actually have to be innovative to be prog.
That said, I've owned the album since the 1970s and I cannot remember playing it the last 30 years.
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bardberic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

The Grand Illusion is prog, but neither very innovative nor particularly good (or bad) prog.
Prog does not actually have to be innovative to be prog.
That said, I've owned the album since the 1970s and I cannot remember playing it the last 30 years.


Yes I agree. I have it rated on RYM as a whopping 2.5 stars lol. It's listenable, but I'd almost always rather put on Kansas or Yes if I wanted traditional synth-heavy prog. This might have been the first time I listened to it in five years, since I purchased the album. I just think because of how synth heavy and generic it sounds people just jump on the AOR bandwagon, tbh. The funny thing is, Styx may be the only classic rock-era prog band for whom I actually prefer their AOR stuff to their prog stuff... Kansas I can tolerate, but the others from the era kinda suck. Probably because they were a pioneer of AOR.
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On an aside, I think of AOR = "album oriented rock" as a format for radio stations I listened to in late 70s/early 80s, not a type of music. There were characteristics that different rock songs had bands played that fit that format but it wouldn't necessarily be a style. So, Styx had AOR songs, as did Floyd, Tull, Zeppelin, the Who, Boston, Aerosmith, ... now I somtimes conflate AOR with arena rock, which Styx would fit. I think if someone asked me kind of music Styx plays, I would just give it the broad "rock" label.
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I've always classed Styx as an Arena Rock (or AOR) band in my Artists & Albums database, but that doesn't mean they can't be a Prog-Rock band too, although if the name is anything to go by, Styx should be classed as an Underground band. Tongue
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I like the album and I don't care what genre label one wants to stick on it. You could call it pomp rock, rock grotesque, over-the-top rock... the music remains the same. But I personally prefer the Pieces of Eight album.

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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

I like the album and I don't care what genre label one wants to stick on it. 

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Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I would say this particular album is probably half and half. Styx are one of those not quite prog bands imo though.


That's exactly what I'm feeling, and why it is so hard for me to choose on my computer.

I suppose I'm going with progressive rock for all tracks except COme Sail Away and The Grand Finale, and I'm still deciding for Superstars

Your indecision is not surprising. This is exactly why they are labelled prog related on PA which by the way is not a prog genre.
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A couple of its tracks are proggy, but that's not saying much.
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Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Grand Illusion is certainly prog.

Thank you! I thought I'm going crazy or something. Everyone, even on RYM, is telling me I'm wrong lol


Absolutely Progressive Rock
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Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I've never considered them to be a prog band. There wasn't really anything "progressive" about their sound, particularly when this album came out in 1977. It had all been done previously.


Well then what about bands like Spock's Beard? They haven't done anything that hadn't yet been done. Or Wilderun?

Prog doesn't necessarily mean inventive... if that were the case, then Korn would be prog, which they certainly were not...

Rehashing old sh*t is not progressive. You've put a bow on some old dung. 
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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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I hate the term AOR. "AOR" was created as a radio format, not a type of music. Why can't it simply be rock, or classic rock? Besides, it's a stupid term. Any rock that's on an album is be definition album oriented. 

That being said, Grand Illusion is prog rock enough, at least in places, for me. It's not King Crimson, It's not PFM, it's not even Genesis but "prog" has, and should have, a broader meaning.  
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