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DoobieBrother6 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:08
Vanilla Fudge - Beat Goes On

horrid
almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:17
Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deluge71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:34
Todd Rundgren — The Ever Popular Tortured Artist Effect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 17:03
^That is not a bad album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 18:57
Dylan 1973.  Columbia released Dylan after Bob Dylan jumped ship for another label. Dylan wasn't pleased.




Edited by omphaloskepsis - February 05 2025 at 18:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:10
Love Beach?

Originally posted by DoobieBrother6 DoobieBrother6 wrote:

... horrid
almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall"


I think of filler as a deliberate attempt to make an album longer despite knowing that the music does not add significant value. I would posit that what some call filler is actually mortar for The Wall. Some of what I have seen called filler I do believe helps with the atmosphere of the album and acts as useful bridges. I think that The Wall is a great concept album and some of what I have seen called filler works with other tracks as some of my fave favourite sections of the album.

That said, if the band states that there is filler (just to make the album a full double-album) then I won't disagree with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:22
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Love Beach?

Originally posted by DoobieBrother6 DoobieBrother6 wrote:

... horrid
almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall"


I think of filler as a deliberate attempt to make an album longer despite knowing that the music does not add significant value. I would posit that what some call filler is actually mortar for The Wall. Some of what I have seen called filler I do believe helps with the atmosphere of the album and acts as useful bridges. I think that The Wall is a great concept album and some of what I have seen called filler works with other tracks as some of my fave favourite sections of the album.

That said, if the band states that there is filler (just to make the album a full double-album) then I won't disagree with them.

^ ExactlyWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:37
King Crimsons "Earthbound"...  Theres a good story behind that one. Recorded on a cassette player outdoors IIRC.  Although I wouldn't call it a BAD album.  But it does sound like a bootleg and features Boz Burrell on Vocals.  Best version of Schizoid man IMO. Too bad it wasn't recorded nicely.

Edited by Valdez - February 05 2025 at 19:40
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 21:25
ELP have a couple ( I don't need to state them)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 21:55
Camel's 'The Single Factor' was a classic case of a contractual obligation album created under pressure from a record label (in Camel's case Decca Records) to produce a hit single, and the "made-to-order" nature of its composition resulted in a selection of songs described as "odd" on the band's official website. Unlike previous Camel albums, 'The Single Factor' consists exclusively of shorter compositions of around 3 to 5 minutes in length.

This is how the album is described on the Camel Productions website:

In mid-1981, as he would tell 'Q' Magazine some 10 years later, drummer Andy Ward succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse and attempted suicide, unsuccessfully to the relief of all. But it rendered Ward unable to play drums in the foreseeable future. In shock, the band dissolved, the remainder of the tour was canceled and recording for the next album was postponed in the hope that Ward would recover.

Internal problems of the band were not the concern of Decca Records to which CAMEL were contractually bound for a specific recorded output. Decca refused to be put off any longer and upped the pressure for a hit single. With delays no longer possible, Latimer had to accept that his friend and drummer would not recover and thus, with Andrew Latimer the sole surviving member of CAMEL, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' was recorded and duly released in April 1982.

Writing on demand had produced an odd mix of songs but entering the studio provided an unexpected bright spot. During the recording of NUDE in studio 3 at Abbey Road Studios, the Alan Parsons Project were recording just down the hall in studio 2. Curious by nature, singer Chris Rainbow and bassist/singer David Paton popped in on the CAMEL sessions and new friendships were forged.

Unbeknownst to all at the time, this laid the groundwork for a new lineup. Eventually, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' would see a whole new line of artists including Rainbow and Paton as well as Anthony Phillips (former Genesis), Francis Monkmon (Sky), and guest drummers Simon Phillips (The Who, Jeff Beck, Toto), Dave Mattacks (Fairport Convention) and Graham Jarvis (Cliff Richard).

Time had healed the rift between Latimer and Peter Bardens and although their opposing musical styles would not see eye-to-eye again, Bardens made a guest appearance on the album, forging new friendships himself that would later become 'Keats'. But Ward was unable to appear on the album and hoping to keep the matter private, CAMEL naively included a simple footnote in the liner notes that Andy Ward did not appear due to an injury to his hand.

I don't personally consider the album to be anywhere near as bad as it's made out to be though. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:11
^ Shocking to read about Andy Ward's 'troubles'. He came close to becoming a full time member of Marillion a few years later as many will know having toured with them. Not sure what happened to his career after that. Great drummer in his heyday (70's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:44
The Sicilian Defence by Alan Parsons Project is another example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:53
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ Shocking to read about Andy Ward's 'troubles'. He came close to becoming a full time member of Marillion a few years later as many will know having toured with them. Not sure what happened to his career after that. Great drummer in his heyday (70's)
You can read Andy's story (up until 2003) here: https://andywardmusic.com/history/. The album of new material which was due to be released in early 2004 apparently never happened though, mainly due to Andy Latimer's ongoing health issues at that time.

However, Andy has put together an album consisting of a selection of tracks from the work of some of the many other musicians he has had the privilege of recording with, called 'Sticking Around'. This CD was released in November 2003 as an answer to the very many enquiries he has had about what he has been doing in the two decades since leaving Camel: https://andywardmusic.com/order-cd/.

What he has been doing since 2003 though, I'm not so sure about.

Edit: In 1994, Andy joined Peter Bardens' Mirage, a progressive "supergroup" combining members from both Camel and Caravan. Their 'Mirage Live 14.12.94' album is available in full on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ6jKxOj120.

You can read Andy's memories of his short time in Marillion in this Marko's Marillion Museum interview conducted with him in January 2021. In the interview Andy states that he and his wife Didy are now retired in Suffolk and spending their time gardening. Life on the road has no appeal to him now: https://www.markosmarillionmuseum.com/andy-ward.


Edited by yam yam - February 05 2025 at 23:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 01:32
Lou Reed – Metal Machine Music (Non-Gatefold, Vinyl) - Discogs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hosydi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 01:52
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Love Beach?
Love Beach is not a bad ELP album at all, despite its Bee Gees-style sleeve design. On the contrary, it offers a compelling prog rock characterized by musical diversity and intricate compositions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hosydi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 02:01
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Camel's 'The Single Factor' was a classic case of a contractual obligation album created under pressure from a record label (in Camel's case Decca Records) to produce a hit single, and the "made-to-order" nature of its composition resulted in a selection of songs described as "odd" on the band's official website. Unlike previous Camel albums, 'The Single Factor' consists exclusively of shorter compositions of around 3 to 5 minutes in length.

This is how the album is described on the Camel Productions website:

In mid-1981, as he would tell 'Q' Magazine some 10 years later, drummer Andy Ward succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse and attempted suicide, unsuccessfully to the relief of all. But it rendered Ward unable to play drums in the foreseeable future. In shock, the band dissolved, the remainder of the tour was canceled and recording for the next album was postponed in the hope that Ward would recover.

Internal problems of the band were not the concern of Decca Records to which CAMEL were contractually bound for a specific recorded output. Decca refused to be put off any longer and upped the pressure for a hit single. With delays no longer possible, Latimer had to accept that his friend and drummer would not recover and thus, with Andrew Latimer the sole surviving member of CAMEL, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' was recorded and duly released in April 1982.

Writing on demand had produced an odd mix of songs but entering the studio provided an unexpected bright spot. During the recording of NUDE in studio 3 at Abbey Road Studios, the Alan Parsons Project were recording just down the hall in studio 2. Curious by nature, singer Chris Rainbow and bassist/singer David Paton popped in on the CAMEL sessions and new friendships were forged.

Unbeknownst to all at the time, this laid the groundwork for a new lineup. Eventually, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' would see a whole new line of artists including Rainbow and Paton as well as Anthony Phillips (former Genesis), Francis Monkmon (Sky), and guest drummers Simon Phillips (The Who, Jeff Beck, Toto), Dave Mattacks (Fairport Convention) and Graham Jarvis (Cliff Richard).

Time had healed the rift between Latimer and Peter Bardens and although their opposing musical styles would not see eye-to-eye again, Bardens made a guest appearance on the album, forging new friendships himself that would later become 'Keats'. But Ward was unable to appear on the album and hoping to keep the matter private, CAMEL naively included a simple footnote in the liner notes that Andy Ward did not appear due to an injury to his hand.

I don't personally consider the album to be anywhere near as bad as it's made out to be though. Embarrassed
Although being crafted under contractual obligation, Camel's "Single Factor" really shines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 02:45
Originally posted by DoobieBrother6 DoobieBrother6 wrote:

Vanilla Fudge - Beat Goes On

horrid
almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall"

them fighting words, dude !!!!OuchAngryWink

There is no that much filling stuff in the album, because it all holds up in the storyline,  but indeed most of Side 3 between Hey You and Comfortably Numb can appear as filler stuff, especially Vera and Bring The Boys.

IMHO, there is more filler stuff in The Lamb (which is nearly 15mins longer than The Wall), as most of side 4 is expandable (and even annoying)


=================

Not prog, but Elton John was leaving MCA for his own label, but MCA insisted on the album still owed contractually.
So Elton scraped the bottom of the barrel and came up with 28' of stuff.
MCA went to court and won on the ground that an "LP" was more than 30'/ Sooooo, Elton pulled another bottom-of-drawer stuff and put it on the album master. 


.


Edited by Sean Trane - February 06 2025 at 02:46
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hosydi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 03:49
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The Sicilian Defence by Alan Parsons Project is another example.
Released only as a bonus for fans who purchased The Alan Parsons Project's box set, which contained all of their studio albums, The Sicilian Defence is a decent album overall. Actually, in contrast to the APP's typical goals, The Sicilian Defence, entirely instrumental, may even be regarded as an experimental album, which is, to be honest, a rare relief for the band, which has never concealed its inclination for a more mainstream approach since its debut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 05:56
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Love Beach?

Originally posted by DoobieBrother6 DoobieBrother6 wrote:

... horrid
almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall"


I think of filler as a deliberate attempt to make an album longer despite knowing that the music does not add significant value. I would posit that what some call filler is actually mortar for The Wall. Some of what I have seen called filler I do believe helps with the atmosphere of the album and acts as useful bridges. I think that The Wall is a great concept album and some of what I have seen called filler works with other tracks as some of my fave favourite sections of the album.

That said, if the band states that there is filler (just to make the album a full double-album) then I won't disagree with them.

Hi,

What is strange is that THE FINAL CUT has stuff that was originally in THE WALL and was cut out because THE WALL was too long. It was only visible in the previews of THE WALL, that had one show in the Bay Area that we caught ... it was very good, but also over 2 hours which nowadays is too long for the pop-laden folks that can't handle longer material ... pretty soon we gonna say that WAR AND PEACE and MOBY DICK have so much filler that it makes the novels boring! Or that David Lean's well known long shot is a waste of celluloid, for someone that has no appreciation for the art form ... generally speaking!

If so many folks, here, were not onto the pop-rock thing, and more into "progressive" and "innovative" works, I would not accept such a thing ... and I'm not sure what the big deal is with musicians wanting to expand beyond the 3 and 4 minute barrier to create works that are more "novelistic" than just a pop song ... if pop song you want, please go back to the polka dot bikini days, and not post about progressive music?

THE WALL is not a bad album, and in essence neither are any of the PF albums ... but some folks don't like it an they think they have the right to say so ... good thing they are not the artist, or musician, because folks like these would not last 3 days!


Edited by moshkito - February 06 2025 at 05:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote DoobieBrother6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 06:40
Agree on "Love Beach".

This gets trashed and parroted about all the forums but its a fine lp.


Also:
FM City of Fear
Gentle Giant Civilian


Nothing the matter with these.
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