Lazy vs Since I've been loving you
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Topic: Lazy vs Since I've been loving you
Posted By: Dellinger
Subject: Lazy vs Since I've been loving you
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 21:41
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? Sorry if this isn't prog enough, but once again I couldn't make the poll on the Prog related lounge... I don't know what happened, I remember there used to be no problem making polls there.
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Replies:
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 22:32
Since I've Been Loving You for me. I love the dramatic buildup in the song. Lazy is probably my least favourite from Machine Head.
------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 22:48
Love Deep Purple very much and of course Lazy is another superb track but honestly there's no contest here, Since I've Been Loving You IMO is one of Zep's top 5, it has a perfect structure and it builds up very well, very emotional too.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 23:03
Zeppelin - hands down. No contest.
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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 23:18
Lazy, especially the version from Made in Japan. They are pretty close though.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 00:02
No contest for me. Lazy all the way. Since I've Been Loving You never did much for my ears.
------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 00:18
Zeps
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 02:29
I'm Lazy too
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: ScorchedFirth
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:23
Getting up at 1 O'Clock today, I expect I should pick "Lazy"
------------- breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking, spewing, sleeping...
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Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:25
Zep is amazing but I have to go with
Lazy
------------- Prog On!
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:38
I'm a big Led Zep fan but never been that keen on Since I've Been Loving You. They have better blues numbers so I vote for Lazy.
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Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 09:12
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 11:53
Since I've Been Loving You by miles! As good as Lazy is, SIBLY is one of my top 10 Led Zep songs. I find it some of Jimmy Page's best guitar playing, I'd never heard anything like it before, and the improvisations he did in the live performances (especially on The Song Remains The Same) are properly mind-blowing. The lyrics are also quite powerful, along with Plant's soul singing as per usual, and let's not forget Jonesy and Bonzo!
So yeah, Since I've Been Loving You wins it for me
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Posted By: Utnapishtim
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 11:57
Hard challenge... ...Since I've been Loving You!!
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 13:13
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 13:23
Dellinger wrote:
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? Sorry if this isn't prog enough, but once again I couldn't make the poll on the Prog related lounge... I don't know what happened, I remember there used to be no problem making polls there. |
Making polls was disabled in the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge long ago. I moved this to that lounge for you. I think people can still vote there, but perhaps I should moved it to General Music Discussions (I seem to remember Dean mentioning that he thought that they shouldn't be moved to Prog Related since there's a reason why polls were disabled there in the first place). I actually think of these as more classic rock songs (which of course they are, but as a designation) than even Prog Related. Personally, if something is a Prog Related poll (most options being in the Prog Related category), I just do it in General Music Discussions.
Anyway, I like both of these tracks about equally, I guess.
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 13:44
Xonty wrote:
Since I've Been Loving You by miles! As good as Lazy is, SIBLY is one of my top 10 Led Zep songs. I find it some of Jimmy Page's best guitar playing, I'd never heard anything like it before, and the improvisations he did in the live performances (especially on The Song Remains The Same) are properly mind-blowing. The lyrics are also quite powerful, along with Plant's soul singing as per usual, and let's not forget Jonesy and Bonzo!
So yeah, Since I've Been Loving You wins it for me | All this and more.
I'll just add that I love the interesting chord changes too. Especially towards the end where it almost becomes a game of guess-what-chord-is-coming-next. Great tension-builder.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 14:57
Barbu wrote:
Zep |
^
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Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 17:10
You're lazy just stay in bed You don't want no money You don't want no bread
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 18:13
Logan wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? Sorry if this isn't prog enough, but once again I couldn't make the poll on the Prog related lounge... I don't know what happened, I remember there used to be no problem making polls there. | Making polls was disabled in the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge long ago. I moved this to that lounge for you. I think people can still vote there, but perhaps I should moved it to General Music Discussions (I seem to remember Dean mentioning that he thought that they shouldn't be moved to Prog Related since there's a reason why polls were disabled there in the first place). I actually think of these as more classic rock songs (which of course they are, but as a designation) than even Prog Related. Personally, if something is a Prog Related poll (most options being in the Prog Related category), I just do it in General Music Discussions.Anyway, I like both of these tracks about equally, I guess. |
Oh, but I still don't understand. If this are prog related bands (prog related enough to be included on this site), then why shoould poll about them be made on general music discussion? Prog related lounges are already less viewed than the prog ones, so my post has less oportunity to be seen (even if it may be of interest to some people). But general music has even less viewers and it would be just forgotten. That reminds me, I think the last polls I was able to make on prog related were a bunch of polls of Pink Floyd members vs Beatles members. I though those polls were rather interesting because they weren't just about guitar vs guitar, etc, but also song writing and vocals (matching the ones I thought had a similar role, thus there was a Wright vs Harrison poll too). However, they seemed to have had some attention until they were moved to general music... and I never understood why. Pink Floyd are truly progressive, and The Beatles are Prog related (I had seen polls with less relation to progressive stay on the prog polls lounge).
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 18:16
Oh, by the way, I easily go with "Since I've Been Loving You" on this one, I really love that song. "Lazy" is very good too, of course, but there's just something special about the Zep song. I definitley don't know very much about blues, and I undestand this are not pure Blues songs, but as it is, I would say SIBLY is my favourite blues song.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 19:20
Dellinger wrote:
Logan wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? Sorry if this isn't prog enough, but once again I couldn't make the poll on the Prog related lounge... I don't know what happened, I remember there used to be no problem making polls there. | Making polls was disabled in the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge long ago. I moved this to that lounge for you. I think people can still vote there, but perhaps I should moved it to General Music Discussions (I seem to remember Dean mentioning that he thought that they shouldn't be moved to Prog Related since there's a reason why polls were disabled there in the first place). I actually think of these as more classic rock songs (which of course they are, but as a designation) than even Prog Related. Personally, if something is a Prog Related poll (most options being in the Prog Related category), I just do it in General Music Discussions.Anyway, I like both of these tracks about equally, I guess. |
Oh, but I still don't understand. If this are prog related bands (prog related enough to be included on this site), then why shoould poll about them be made on general music discussion? Prog related lounges are already less viewed than the prog ones, so my post has less oportunity to be seen (even if it may be of interest to some people). But general music has even less viewers and it would be just forgotten. That reminds me, I think the last polls I was able to make on prog related were a bunch of polls of Pink Floyd members vs Beatles members. I though those polls were rather interesting because they weren't just about guitar vs guitar, etc, but also song writing and vocals (matching the ones I thought had a similar role, thus there was a Wright vs Harrison poll too). However, they seemed to have had some attention until they were moved to general music... and I never understood why. Pink Floyd are truly progressive, and The Beatles are Prog related (I had seen polls with less relation to progressive stay on the prog polls lounge). |
I didn't say that people should, I said that, personally, I would make such a poll in General Music Discussions. The reasons being because: a) I don't like having my threads moved, or getting people to feel like they must move them as it might be seen as added bother, and Ive never had a thread moved that I've made there (only had a few polls moved over the years, and have got them moved back, mind you. So, a bit ironic... B) Unless I'm mistaken, I remember an admin questioning having Prog Related Polls in the Prog Related section, and I think suggesting that they would be better made in General Music Discussions (maybe he would have rather it just be left in Prog Polls).
Perhaps making polls was disabled in the Proto Prog and Prog Reated section for similar reasons that the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related categories are deliberately kept small in terms of additions: they would prefer the focus to be on Prog (and perhaps in the case of polls there was a concern that it takes up bandwidth which can slow down the site that they think, or Max thinks, could be better served in other ways -- but then, one might ask, why allow all sorts of non-prog polls in non-prog forums?, so it doesn't follow well... I'm just thinking out loud).
Like this poll, I have moved an awful lot to this PP/PR Lounge, and I've never minded doing that, and have offered to do that for anyone, but I think those actions have been questioned in the past. I'm not sure what the policy is on that, or if there is one, which is why I questioned if I was doing the right thing by moving it here.
If the admin have no problem with me moving polls here, then I'm happy to do it. But moving them here does rather defeat not allowing polls to be made in this forum in the first place, if you see what I mean.
Perhaps because my polls tend to be unpopular no matter where I place them, I have not cared from that perspective where I placed them. The few that seem to care seem to find them anyway -- well, it is more likely that they will be seen in Prog Polls, but visibility is just not that important to me. I would rather few notice it than the chance that one notices it who feels compelled to move it to another forum. Personally, I check the General Music Discussions as much as any forum (and more than most forums -- I almost never look at Just For Fun for instance).
I've questioned Pink Floyd being called Prog genre, though I think they were progressive and have Prog albums (just that my group tended no to classify them such long ago, and when I thought Prog I thought of symph bands such as Yes, Genesis and ELP -- a narrow view of Prog). I think the Beatles fit Proto-Prog very well. The band was progressive in that they were expanding the boundaries of rock and pop music and doing interesting things/ experimenting and bringing in non-rock ideas (like say the influence of musique concrete on the Beatles and how they brought that into a mainstream music context), but I wouldn't classify the band as Prog proper (more a band that helped to lay the foundations for the Pog movement as I see it generally).
Oh, and in case you were wondering why I mentioned the progginess of these tracks -- I personally just think that the songs themselves fit better in terms of classification in a General Music Discussion forum than in a Prog Poll, and are not either of the bands most prog-related tunes, so I wouldn't find the tracks themselves out of place in general Music Discussions even if the bands have been classified as Prog Related (a designation that I don't disagree with for the bands, but I like to look at music on a more micro level. I don't think bands are Prog or Prog-related so much as I think that particular music is -- aside from prog-by-style music, though, both bands have been associated with the progressive rock movement by people.
Things aren't always that consistent around here. I was a big one for moving stuff, to be honest, and I think some others have been rather more relaxed when it comes to it. It's no big deal.
Unnecessary side-note: Anyway, no matter where I moved it, since the poll title with the moved icon is getting bumped in Prog Polls, it doesn't really matter in terms of exposure .... That is at least if or until someone decides to remove the show move indicator.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 22:42
On the topic of Zepp - True Fact - 'Since I've Been Loving You' is a re-make of a MOBY GRAPE piece called 'Never'. Blatant plagiarism right there, but Zepp took it to extreme heights, but the Grape's version is also awesome too. It was penned by their bassist, and is the opening cut off their album 'Grape Jam'.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 10:40
Jimmy Page was very fine at arranging and also composition. Deep Purple ..although being classically trained in areas just didn't seem to have the right chemistry to pull of creative writing. They came close with Machine Head, but Gillian and Glover complained that they couldn't write new ideas. "Since I've Been Loving You" is more in the vain of how great writers like The Beatles would have played a Blues song. It has texture and structure more in the progressive side of things. However...the guitar playing on "Lazy" surpasses the abilities of Jimmy Page on "Since I've Been Loving You". "Lazy" is a very clean precise alternate picking style combined with odd trills played with the left hand. It's a little more adventurous in the area of guitar playing than some of the more choppy lead styles of Jimmy Page.
But again...Page's writing surpasses Deep Purple's because of their personal inability to compose a Rock song revolving around 12 different beautiful chord voicings instead of 3 or 4 chords repeating endlessly...which is what they often did. and usually the 5 chord fingering instead of a full melodic sounding chord. Page would stretch his left hand across many frets while sounding out open strings. Blackmore did not.
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 11:48
Lazy is my all time favorite Deep Purple track, allways been in love with that one, its great. But against the mighty Zep, very few stand up.
Zeppelin
------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 21:27
Logan wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Logan wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? Sorry if this isn't prog enough, but once again I couldn't make the poll on the Prog related lounge... I don't know what happened, I remember there used to be no problem making polls there. | Making polls was disabled in the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge long ago. I moved this to that lounge for you. I think people can still vote there, but perhaps I should moved it to General Music Discussions (I seem to remember Dean mentioning that he thought that they shouldn't be moved to Prog Related since there's a reason why polls were disabled there in the first place). I actually think of these as more classic rock songs (which of course they are, but as a designation) than even Prog Related. Personally, if something is a Prog Related poll (most options being in the Prog Related category), I just do it in General Music Discussions.Anyway, I like both of these tracks about equally, I guess. |
Oh, but I still don't understand. If this are prog related bands (prog related enough to be included on this site), then why shoould poll about them be made on general music discussion? Prog related lounges are already less viewed than the prog ones, so my post has less oportunity to be seen (even if it may be of interest to some people). But general music has even less viewers and it would be just forgotten. That reminds me, I think the last polls I was able to make on prog related were a bunch of polls of Pink Floyd members vs Beatles members. I though those polls were rather interesting because they weren't just about guitar vs guitar, etc, but also song writing and vocals (matching the ones I thought had a similar role, thus there was a Wright vs Harrison poll too). However, they seemed to have had some attention until they were moved to general music... and I never understood why. Pink Floyd are truly progressive, and The Beatles are Prog related (I had seen polls with less relation to progressive stay on the prog polls lounge). | I didn't say that people should, I said that, personally, I would make such a poll in General Music Discussions. The reasons being because: a) I don't like having my threads moved, or getting people to feel like they must move them as it might be seen as added bother, and Ive never had a thread moved that I've made there (only had a few polls moved over the years, and have got them moved back, mind you. So, a bit ironic... B) Unless I'm mistaken, I remember an admin questioning having Prog Related Polls in the Prog Related section, and I think suggesting that they would be better made in General Music Discussions (maybe he would have rather it just be left in Prog Polls).Perhaps making polls was disabled in the Proto Prog and Prog Reated section for similar reasons that the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related categories are deliberately kept small in terms of additions: they would prefer the focus to be on Prog (and perhaps in the case of polls there was a concern that it takes up bandwidth which can slow down the site that they think, or Max thinks, could be better served in other ways -- but then, one might ask, why allow all sorts of non-prog polls in non-prog forums?, so it doesn't follow well... I'm just thinking out loud).Like this poll, I have moved an awful lot to this PP/PR Lounge, and I've never minded doing that, and have offered to do that for anyone, but I think those actions have been questioned in the past. I'm not sure what the policy is on that, or if there is one, which is why I questioned if I was doing the right thing by moving it here.If the admin have no problem with me moving polls here, then I'm happy to do it. But moving them here does rather defeat not allowing polls to be made in this forum in the first place, if you see what I mean.Perhaps because my polls tend to be unpopular no matter where I place them, I have not cared from that perspective where I placed them. The few that seem to care seem to find them anyway -- well, it is more likely that they will be seen in Prog Polls, but visibility is just not that important to me. I would rather few notice it than the chance that one notices it who feels compelled to move it to another forum. Personally, I check the General Music Discussions as much as any forum (and more than most forums -- I almost never look at Just For Fun for instance).I've questioned Pink Floyd being called Prog genre, though I think they were progressive and have Prog albums (just that my group tended no to classify them such long ago, and when I thought Prog I thought of symph bands such as Yes, Genesis and ELP -- a narrow view of Prog). I think the Beatles fit Proto-Prog very well. The band was progressive in that they were expanding the boundaries of rock and pop music and doing interesting things/ experimenting and bringing in non-rock ideas (like say the influence of musique concrete on the Beatles and how they brought that into a mainstream music context), but I wouldn't classify the band as Prog proper (more a band that helped to lay the foundations for the Pog movement as I see it generally).Oh, and in case you were wondering why I mentioned the progginess of these tracks -- I personally just think that the songs themselves fit better in terms of classification in a General Music Discussion forum than in a Prog Poll, and are not either of the bands most prog-related tunes, so I wouldn't find the tracks themselves out of place in general Music Discussions even if the bands have been classified as Prog Related (a designation that I don't disagree with for the bands, but I like to look at music on a more micro level. I don't think bands are Prog or Prog-related so much as I think that particular music is -- aside from prog-by-style music, though, both bands have been associated with the progressive rock movement by people.Things aren't always that consistent around here. I was a big one for moving stuff, to be honest, and I think some others have been rather more relaxed when it comes to it. It's no big deal.Unnecessary side-note: Anyway, no matter where I moved it, since the poll title with the moved icon is getting bumped in Prog Polls, it doesn't really matter in terms of exposure .... That is at least if or until someone decides to remove the show move indicator.
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So, in the end, what should I do when I want to make a poll I consider Prog related? Well, strictly I understand I should do it on General Music. But in the end, I still don't agree with the arguments about not wanting to distract the attention from pure prog conversations. In that case, there shouldn't even be the non prog lounges... if they are available, then I consider the final choice about what the users of the site want to visit should be ours, and not be cheated puting things in the wrong places so we won't use them. Besides, the reason I don't visit General Music (and even Prog Related) parts of the forum isn't so much because I'm not interested in them, but more because I can go in several times and see no movement in them. So I mainly enter Prog related from time to time to see if there's something interesting or when I have an idea of something I want to post, and then follow it for a while until it cools down. However, in the end, I'm tempted to keep on posting prog related polls on the prog polls forum (not that I make lot's of polls very often, though)... still, I don't want to annoy people about that.
Oh yeah, and one last thing, I do kind of think this two songs are at least prog related too. Of course, they are more blues, and perhaps hard rock, than prog, but their length and amount of instrumental time makes them feel like they have at least some prog elements... actually, at some point someone called "Since I've been Loving You" a Blues Prog song, or something like that, and I kind of agree.
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Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 08:08
I haven't yet met the quals to vote in polls. However, Dellinger's post is valuable because I've always stayed away from listening to Deep Purple. They've always struck me as a less creative version of Uriah Heep, and I don't like primarily keyboard-driven rock. However, I will know listen to Lazy and probably enjoy it. Since I've Been Loving You is the best song on the substandard Led Zeppelin III album.
------------- I am the funkiest man on the planet!
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 08:49
thwok wrote:
However, Dellinger's post is valuable because I've always stayed away from listening to Deep Purple. They've always struck me as a less creative version of Uriah Heep, and I don't like primarily keyboard-driven rock. |
I always thought it was the other way around.
And keyboard driven??
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 10:47
Zep for sure.....the DP song is my least favorite on MH.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 11:30
Zep here too, I love that song.
We just watched the '84 Purple dvd. And while the band were in fine form, we both felt very strongly their material isn't even close to the level of Zeppelin generally. When I told the wife that many people consider Blackmore superior to Page, she just laughed. Basically telling me, that just you guys who worry about technical precision and fireworks....to her the emotion and melody of Page's leads are something Blackmore doesn't have.
Overstatement perhaps but I feel much the same. DP are decent but no LZ. Not at the kit, not at bass and not at guitar. DP has the organ which is a tick in their favor. Voice is a draw.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 11:51
Finnforest wrote:
Zep here too, I love that song.
We just watched the '84 Purple dvd. And while the band were in fine form, we both felt very strongly their material isn't even close to the level of Zeppelin generally. When I told the wife that many people consider Blackmore superior to Page, she just laughed. Basically telling me, that just you guys who worry about technical precision and fireworks....to her the emotion and melody of Page's leads are something Blackmore doesn't have.
Overstatement perhaps but I feel much the same. DP are decent but no LZ. Not at the kit, not at bass and not at guitar. DP has the organ which is a tick in their favor. Voice is a draw.
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About how I feel about both bands.........Blackmore was and is an excellent guitarist but Page seemed to come up with these iconic riffs one after the other and Zep simply wrote/composed better songs. Lord was somewhat wasted (not reaching his full potential within that framework.) in that band imho.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:27
Blackmore had stated long ago that he wished Deep Purple could write songs as good as Uriah Heep. He also liked Jethro Tull and attended their shows whenever possible. He would sit in the front row trying to be discreet and Ian Anderson would leap off the stage into Blackmore's lap just to bust his stones.....I believe Blackmore's attraction to both bands was of course a personal liking...however...I believe that Blackmore also wished that his band, Deep Purple, could turn out songs just as good and apart from Machine Head and some tracks on In Rock, that never materialized in the real world. I remember when he was asked why he was leaving the band and he replied ...."What's the point?" Led Zeppelin sold more than us"....which makes me laugh due to the fact that it's an excuse you might hear from a ten year old child...but again..there is undertone to all of his statements in the 70's indicating that he was unhappy about the songwriting in Deep Purple.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:38
^ As well he should be...I almost cringe now when I hear Smoke on the Water....that was the big finale of the DVD i mention below, and it's just so unremarkable.
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:41
I've heard Blackmore bashing Deep Purple for a long time, does it mean he's right? who cares? Honestly I like Uriah Heep too but they are not in the same league, but that's only my opinion.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:57
Good point Sagi, fans don't need to care what artists think of their work....although I think in Blackmore's case his moderate self loathing is somewhat closer to reality than say Waters/Gilmour bashing of their pre-Meddle.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 14:30
About the bands Zep and DP, I do like better Led Zeppelin, specially they have more songs that I really love a lot... but then again, I have known them for much longer and have all their studio albums, while I have just started getting into Deep Purple. As guitar players, I suppose I like Page a bit better than Blackmore... I guess he has kind of a wider pallette of sounds. Still, if I include what I know from Rainbow together with DP, I guess the amount of songs I love gets a bit more even.
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 14:53
'Since I've Been Loving You' is very far from being my favourite Led Zep track, but here it's an easy choice.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 09:05
Finnforest wrote:
Zep here too, I love that song.
We just watched the '84 Purple dvd. And while the band were in fine form, we both felt very strongly their material isn't even close to the level of Zeppelin generally. When I told the wife that many people consider Blackmore superior to Page, she just laughed. Basically telling me, that just you guys who worry about technical precision and fireworks....to her the emotion and melody of Page's leads are something Blackmore doesn't have.
I agree with the statement that some people worry too much about precision, but as a active guitarist ...I must render that when playing Page's solos..frustration comes to mind. Obviously Page brings out a lot of emotional feelings in people with his soloing, but sometimes as a guitarist you're being asked to emulate his reflections which is playing incorrectly regarding the sloppy note passages. I like his solos...but the majority of the world is not willing to accept that he is playing poorly according to a professional point of reference from a musician...which...is disrespectful and sometimes disregarded in an ignorant way. It's a very delicate situation because his sloppiness is appealing yet....difficult to not think of as pathetic in some cases when you are experienced on guitar. On "Heartbreaker" he plays many notes which are choppy sounding along with open strings ringing out like a drone tone which is precisely what a good teacher would stop you from doing. In that sense...it is ironic..but I do get it! Page was Jeff Beck's guitar instructor and I respect Page for what he is playing more than how he sounds when he plays it.
This is insight on the beef between Page and thousands of professional guitarists over the last 40 years. I'm sorry to go on like this..but for decades..there has been a whole world of great guitarists who have respect for Page, but are baffled by his lack of effort/determination in playing clean ..while another entire world of people who may not be musicians love Page for what he is and ask the same question over and over to professional players...."How on earth can you say that Page is sloppy?" Don't get me wrong....I especially love Page on The Yardbirds live at Anderson Theatre. It's a complicated situation where musicians who pull off his solos in a club. get a supportive response, must keep their opinons quiet when asked what they think of him.
Overstatement perhaps but I feel much the same. DP are decent but no LZ. Not at the kit, not at bass and not at guitar. DP has the organ which is a tick in their favor. Voice is a draw.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 09:20
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really?
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 09:31
Finnforest wrote:
^ As well he should be...I almost cringe now when I hear Smoke on the Water....that was the big finale of the DVD i mention below, and it's just so unremarkable.
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I cringe when I hear Blackmore using an octive divider on his guitar for an entire performance. It's like he was hit in the head by a van or a bus. How in the world can you go on stage with Rainbow in Japan and be so mindless as to use an octive divider for 2 hrs straight? Sometimes he would make noise and the noise itself being attributed to his influence of Hendrix? That's moronic because Hendrix with his feedback had a entire different approach musicially. Blackmore just sounds like a guitarist making noise without a purpose of producing anything worthwhile and Hendrix was not like that in the least bit.
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Posted By: schizoidman
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 11:35
Dellinger wrote:
This is a pair of cool almost blues songs (with and edge) performed by two giants of Hard Rock. Which one do you prefer? |
"Since I've Been Loving You" for me. Although Page ripped off Moby Grape's "Never" (which I have yet to listen to) LZ's performance on "III" is the best track on that album. Along with Hendrix's "Red House" it's one of my two favorite blues songs.
DP's "Lazy" isn't bad at all but I much prefer the feel of SIBLY.
------------- Making the useless useful 24/7.
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Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 11:53
just stay in bed
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ramza1316" rel="nofollow - www.last.fm/user/ramza1316 https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845" rel="nofollow - https://open.spotify.com/user/1211221845
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 18:22
TODDLER wrote:
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really? |
I hear you Toddler. I've heard it for years, how much better Blackmore/Beck/Clapton/Satriani are than Jimmy Page, he is called sloppy, stumblefingers, etc. And yet I'd rather listen to him play any day of the week over the others because his playing moves me, much more than those technical geniuses. That's the bottom line...does the playing move you emotionally. If it does, who cares about prowess?
Same with Garcia. He'll never be mentioned in the same breath as those technical monsters and yet his playing is somehow very special. It has space, it breathes, and it is very patient.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 20:31
Finnforest wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really? | I hear you Toddler. I've heard it for years, how much better Blackmore/Beck/Clapton/Satriani are than Jimmy Page, he is called sloppy, stumblefingers, etc. And yet I'd rather listen to him play any day of the week over the others because his playing moves me, much more than those technical geniuses. That's the bottom line...does the playing move you emotionally. If it does, who cares about prowess?Same with Garcia. He'll never be mentioned in the same breath as those technical monsters and yet his playing is somehow very special. It has space, it breathes, and it is very patient. |
And what about Gilmour? There's just something on his playing, which sholdn't be too difficult for more technical guitar players to emulate. However, I have not heard any other player get that kind of emotion out of a guitar.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 20:45
Good example...Dave is not flashy but has all the emotion and ambiance....wonderful and one of a kind
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Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 21:39
Dellinger wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really? | I hear you Toddler. I've heard it for years, how much better Blackmore/Beck/Clapton/Satriani are than Jimmy Page, he is called sloppy, stumblefingers, etc. And yet I'd rather listen to him play any day of the week over the others because his playing moves me, much more than those technical geniuses. That's the bottom line...does the playing move you emotionally. If it does, who cares about prowess?Same with Garcia. He'll never be mentioned in the same breath as those technical monsters and yet his playing is somehow very special. It has space, it breathes, and it is very patient. |
And what about Gilmour? There's just something on his playing, which sholdn't be too difficult for more technical guitar players to emulate. However, I have not heard any other player get that kind of emotion out of a guitar. |
The only one that comes close to that style is Steve Rothery from Marillion.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 14 2014 at 10:47
Dellinger wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really? | I hear you Toddler. I've heard it for years, how much better Blackmore/Beck/Clapton/Satriani are than Jimmy Page, he is called sloppy, stumblefingers, etc. And yet I'd rather listen to him play any day of the week over the others because his playing moves me, much more than those technical geniuses. That's the bottom line...does the playing move you emotionally. If it does, who cares about prowess?Same with Garcia. He'll never be mentioned in the same breath as those technical monsters and yet his playing is somehow very special. It has space, it breathes, and it is very patient. |
And what about Gilmour? There's just something on his playing, which sholdn't be too difficult for more technical guitar players to emulate. However, I have not heard any other player get that kind of emotion out of a guitar. |
I agree totally. Did you ever hear his lead work on "Over, Under, Sideways, Down from The Yardbirds live at Anderson Theatre? He also plays "White Summer" on electric and OMG...what a great performance he gives. He has the fire from within and especially his tone on the first Zep album. People often complain that Zep is over played ...yet try performing "Black Dog" 5 or 6 nights a week and see if you don't eventually louse it up somewhere along the road. Jimmy Page was a fine writer too.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 14 2014 at 10:52
Dellinger wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
Guitarists who find Page laughable...later discover that his songs require precision and are technical in some cases. They are baffled and ask..."How can he get away with being sloppy?" Because he's Jimmy Page. Because he can. What else can you say really? | I hear you Toddler. I've heard it for years, how much better Blackmore/Beck/Clapton/Satriani are than Jimmy Page, he is called sloppy, stumblefingers, etc. And yet I'd rather listen to him play any day of the week over the others because his playing moves me, much more than those technical geniuses. That's the bottom line...does the playing move you emotionally. If it does, who cares about prowess?Same with Garcia. He'll never be mentioned in the same breath as those technical monsters and yet his playing is somehow very special. It has space, it breathes, and it is very patient. |
And what about Gilmour? There's just something on his playing, which sholdn't be too difficult for more technical guitar players to emulate. However, I have not heard any other player get that kind of emotion out of a guitar. |
I agree totally. His feel when bending strings and phrasing notes is often a task to master regarding producing the overall effect he has when he is heard over a sound system. Many fine guitarists I know have trouble emulating his overall attack and it's because of his great originality. I love Gilmour's style.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: January 17 2014 at 23:48
Page isn't really sloppy, He just think and plays outside of the box and this is not easy for people who love absolutely correct precision (e.g. me normally). Best to think of it as spontaneously inverted harmonies at best. Really he has too when playing a scale for 10 minutes. I have heard him where he has been sloppy bad (on some boots).. (All My love, he never got a part together for that piece) versus Stairway when he took over Plants' vocal on guitar and wrote his singer out of the plot for a few minutes)....
Sloppiness as a band? Check Dazed after the final solo on Celebration Day. Skilfully edited train wreck, but still interesting.
In guitar progression Satriani is probably "better" than anyone (...Vai?). But with the unique identities of all these fine axe masters it may take a long time before even he can get to the pop culture depth all the above have.
Vague superlatives such as "better", and "best" need to be defined in posts better. (IMVVVHO)...
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 18 2014 at 01:12
For those that say Page was sloppy ; I think, at times Steve Howe could be somewhat sloppy too. And not to forget, what they're playing is never exactly simple, nor conventional.
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 18 2014 at 06:11
^ I wish I was sloppy like him then.
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Posted By: I-Juca Pirama
Date Posted: January 19 2014 at 16:31
I regret I voted on Lazy. I've just listened to SIBLY and my mind rapidly changed.
------------- Without charity, there is no salvation
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:16
I-Juca Pirama wrote:
I regret I voted on Lazy. I've just listened to SIBLY and my mind rapidly changed. |
Well, at least Since I've been loving you is clearly winning, so your vote won't really do much damage.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 20 2014 at 02:51
Since I've Been Loving You, one of my favorite LZ songs
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Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: March 08 2014 at 03:52
Cristi wrote:
Since I've Been Loving You, one of my favorite LZ songs |
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 08 2014 at 03:57
Tom Ozric wrote:
For those that say Page was sloppy ; I think, at times Steve Howe could be somewhat sloppy too. And not to forget, what they're playing is never exactly simple, nor conventional. |
Sloppy is not a bad connotation in music - at least not for me, just as a sloppy bj isn't too shabby either Sometimes I may even prefer the rugged and more carefree approach. Hell most of the time I do. If I want a metronome on my stereo (or in bed) I'd trade in my ticker for a Swiss power clock instead and be done with it altogether.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 08 2014 at 15:59
^ if the chick is hot, it's never sloppy..........
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 09 2014 at 22:21
I love them both but "Since I've Been Loving You", has, as mentioned elsewhere, more emotion and totally encapsulates how I feel about the blues in music.
-------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: March 15 2014 at 04:47
Lazy (Made in Japan version)
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 17 2014 at 05:01
thwok wrote:
I haven't yet met the quals to vote in polls. However, Dellinger's post is valuable because I've always stayed away from listening to Deep Purple. They've always struck me as a less creative version of Uriah Heep, and I don't like primarily keyboard-driven rock. However, I will know listen to Lazy and probably enjoy it. Since I've Been Loving You is the best song on the substandard Led Zeppelin III album.
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Substandard?! Led Zeppelin 3?!! Really?!!!! Find me another album that mixes great blue grass guitar (Bron Yr Aur Stomp, the catchy heaveiness of Out On The Tiles (a hit single for anyone else, Zeppelin couldn't be bothered), the awesome power of Immigrant Song - check JPJ's bass work in what would be choruses to another band. Who else is cool enough to introduce the bass at the end of (the C guitar tuning of That's The Way) near the end of the number which has already such aural depth. Tangerines' delicacy and precise solo, the understated evil of Friends, the monumetal chord structure for SIBLY, the trikery of the usal end of album blues in Hat's Off. And that most odd ball of hard rock numbers Celebration Day.
Not to mention the revisit in the Page Plant Unledded: No Quarter Days where the (no, I hadn't forgotten) was based around Gallows Pole and the often neglected Four Sticks from the wonderful fourth album. Both numbers incidentally were played once or twice in the Zeppelin live time but finally got their recognition in the 1990s
I wish there were more sub-standard albums like this, I'd be more broke than ever.
Deep Purple were masters of the intertwining riff in e.g. loads of In Rock, had orchestral works (Concerto x 2 and The Gemini Suite). They were fine improvisers and still give great concert. Lazy when done complete is a lot of fun and another refreshing take on the Blues.
Oh and bothe bands are drum driven. Ian paice was there from there beginning and still there; no Bonham, no Zeppelin.
Outside interest by Purple members reveal the depth and breadth, Paice's big band jazz, the soul (Hughes), Glover's theatrical productions, Blackmore and folk, Bolin and jazz, Lord's classical music. To get an idea I recommend the Second Concerto recording with a lot of solo ventures on disc 1 and that riveting CD 2. Their friend Ronnie Dio turns up to help out on Smoke. And the orchestral ballads are stunning performances.
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Posted By: Prog 74
Date Posted: March 17 2014 at 16:35
Since I've been Loving You. Great song!
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 18 2014 at 00:46
Has ANYONE ever bothered to hear West Coast psych band Moby Grape's initial composition entitled 'Never' during their musical travels ??? It came before SIBLY and worth every bit of ear-time one cares to bother with.........
Sure it's very good - no patch on what Page and his buddies cranked it out to be.........
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: March 18 2014 at 10:56
Both great tunes but Lazy just gets me rocking' every time!
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Jzrk
Date Posted: March 28 2014 at 23:50
Lazy. I just loved this song the first time I heard it.Still sounds great to this Day.
Nice version of it on the Remacjined CS by Joe Bonamassa and Jimmy Barnes
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 29 2014 at 00:05
Awww I voted for since I have been loving you, that track right from the start with the Santana guitar tunes plus lead and response with the vocals is so good really.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 29 2014 at 00:16
Awwww these comparisons are not fair because I also love the jazzy prelipupupus pa pa te ti te tum dum dum jazzy feel and mood of Lazy by Deep Purple infact I can replay this more often to be honest.
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Posted By: Kentucky_Hawkwindage
Date Posted: March 29 2014 at 09:12
Posted By: Daysbetween
Date Posted: March 29 2014 at 10:39
Voted Lazy as I love the jazz feel of the tune.
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