Will technological progress slow down?
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Topic: Will technological progress slow down?
Posted By: Gerinski
Subject: Will technological progress slow down?
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 09:21
... and if so, how may that affect our society?
For surely 2 centuries we have been experiencing unrelentless technological progress. But much technology depends on underlying science, and in some areas (mainly physics) the fundamental science progress is slowing down. As we get further up our knowledge, progress becomes harder, sice the development of quantum mechanics from the 1920's to the 1970's little real progress in fundamental physics has been made. In areas like chemistry some progress is still being made for example in artificial materials, but the underlying chemical rules between all the naturally ocurring elements are quite well known and there's little more to discover.
For sure we still have big progress in all the areas related to electronics and computing, as well as others as genetics and medicine, but in many other areas genuine progress is getting harder (commercial jet planes nowadays are not much different from those in the 70's and we are not flying any faster).
Much of the latest progress in many areas has been focused on finding ways to produce the things cheaper and more efficiently rather than in pushing the technology itself further.
But since much of our socio-economy is based on researching, developing, producing and selling ever more advanced products, what will happen if it becomes ever harder to find any improvement in the current technologies? to put a rather stupid example, if nobody can find ways so that a washing machine can wash better, why should I replace my old washing machine as long as it works?
Of course companies will always have the aesthetics trends to makes us buy new products even if they are not any better than their predecessors, they will just convince us that the predecessor looks out of fashion.
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Replies:
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 10:13
There's been no more productive age in the history of mathematics than the past 50 years. The progress in other fields are similar. Science isn't slowing down.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 10:53
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
There's been no more productive age in the history of mathematics than the past 50 years. The progress in other fields are similar. Science isn't slowing down. |
Even if you believe so, I foresee that it will eventually slow down. This is a must as long as you think science has some ultimate limit (regardless if practically achievable or not). In any thing, getting from 50% to 70% is relatively easy, when you are at 90%, just improving to 91% is much more difficult and when you are at 97% the energy required to get any further may become prohibitibe in practice. The closer you get to the ultimate limit the harder it gets to get further. This is a natural law, same as trying to accelerate towards the speed of light.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 11:41
I don't believe so. It is so. Although recent developments may be
perceived as too technical or esoteric to disseminate, it does not
change the massive and groundbreaking activity being done.
I said progress isn't slowing down. Not that it never will. Not that it never has. I said that it isn't.
What
you about relatively growth makes intuitive sense, and I won't really
try to argue with it. But it's first of all irrelevant to what I was
saying, and much more importantly, we're much closer to the 1% benchmark
of understanding the universe than we are to the 50% benchmark.
(Whatever these arbitrary and immeasurable benchmarks are supposed to
be.)
Gerinski wrote:
The closer you get to the
ultimate limit the harder it gets to get further. This is a natural law,
same as trying to accelerate towards the speed of light. |
No
this is not a natural law. It has nothing to do with accelerating
towards the speed of light. This is just a nice sounding analogy you've
made based on your experience with many matters. It's not a bad
assumption, but it's not a law. It's not proven. Just don't say that.
EDIT:
I'm grading homeworks. If my tone sounds harsh, which it does in
retrospect, I assure you its frustration based on students not animosity
towards you.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 12:10
Don't worry, I'm a very tolerant person as long as insults are not being used.
I know I stretched the analogy of accelerating towards the speed of light, sorry for that, it's indeed 'not a natural law' but a true fact in many aspects and it is conceivable that growth in scientific understanding might follow this principle as well, with one possible difference being that some unexpected breakthrough may trigger a completely new line of development and progress which we can at present not even conceive of.
I don't deny that a lot of progress is being made in Math (which btw is not 'a technology' which was the subject of the OP) and many other areas (among other things, because the number of people being involved in research is much bigger than one century ago), but it is also undeniable that in some technological areas it seems like we are hitting a wall. As I said fundamental physics has slowed down, some engineering areas are slowing down. Take engines, we are refining the known concepts but the diesel engine of a modern boat is basically the same as a few decades ago, the same I already said about planes. We still build houses with baked bricks (still much wood in the States) and tile roofs.
If we exclude electronics, computing and genetics / biotechnology, I'd say that progress has slowed down compared to what we experienced from the early 19th century until the 1950's, where there was not one decade without a significant step forward.
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 12:16
I think it's possible that there may come a time where we have advanced so far that we don't know what to do anymore. But I doubt that.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">
The greatest record label of all time!
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 13:43
Gerinski wrote:
Don't worry, I'm a very tolerant person as long as insults are not being used.
I know I stretched the analogy of accelerating towards the speed of light, sorry for that, it's indeed 'not a natural law' but a true fact in many aspects and it is conceivable that growth in scientific understanding might follow this principle as well, with one possible difference being that some unexpected breakthrough may trigger a completely new line of development and progress which we can at present not even conceive of.
I don't deny that a lot of progress is being made in Math (which btw is not 'a technology' which was the subject of the OP) and many other areas (among other things, because the number of people being involved in research is much bigger than one century ago), but it is also undeniable that in some technological areas it seems like we are hitting a wall. As I said fundamental physics has slowed down, some engineering areas are slowing down. Take engines, we are refining the known concepts but the diesel engine of a modern boat is basically the same as a few decades ago, the same I already said about planes. We still build houses with baked bricks (still much wood in the States) and tile roofs.
If we exclude electronics, computing and genetics / biotechnology, I'd say that progress has slowed down compared to what we experienced from the early 19th century until the 1950's, where there was not one decade without a significant step forward. |
I wasn't answering your question about technological progress, because I'm really not much of an engineer nor do I pay attention to this kind of stuff at the market level. I was merely responding to the fact you pointed out that technological progress draws upon scientific progress. I just don't know if your assertions are justified.
It seems to me that you're equating local stagnation with a sort of global stagnation. We build houses out of the materials we do due to existing infrastructure and other economic reasons. Technology will grow in different areas at different times. There may not have been much progress made recently in the development of a new engine design, but we've seen great bones in solar/nuclear power. I see no evidence that suggests to me that our rate of technological growth is slowing.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 13:52
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
we're much closer to the 1% benchmark
of understanding the universe than we are to the 50% benchmark.
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This.
I'm not sure about the speed of technological progress at the present time, but I have no doubts that, as we keep learning more and more about a universe about which we now know almost nothing, relatively, science and technology will progress further and further.
Of course, you could also make the point that as science becomes more theoretical, technological growth will slow. I acknowledge this but at the same time, it's only a matter of time before theoretical science advances far enough to become practical.
------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 14:03
Gerinski wrote:
As we get further up our knowledge, progress becomes harder, sice the development of quantum mechanics from the 1920's to the 1970's little real progress in fundamental physics has been made. |
I think you're barking up the wrong tree with regard to "advances". Integrated circuits (computer
chips) are a great example of where you've gone wrong. The "advances"
are actually there -- we see them every day. You're using them right
now. Yet, IC design has become so fantastically complex that no one
person can understand even the fundamentals of the design of a chip.
There are teams that each work on bits and pieces of each chip design.
The complexity is staggering, and it will only grow with time. IC
feature miniaturization will continue for many years to come. There's
some hope for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_logic" rel="nofollow - three-state devices, which would dramatically increase processing power in many case. While
the outside appearance of an airplane hasn't changed much, newer
aircraft are more efficient. Materials and form have been improved to
reduce weight and drag. We now have autopilot that controls every aspect
of flying, including takeoff and landing.
The reason you've
missed all of this is that you're looking for new frontiers to be
addressed. You can only take to the skies once. We've gone up, down, and
every which way. The only place left to go are other planets, and we're
talking about journeys that take years (or even millennia if you're
leaving our solar system). You can get across an ocean in hours, but
nothing is going to shore up the trip time to Mars. The low-hanging
fruit has been plucked.
That's not to say that there aren't
lingering big questions. We still can't reconcile quantum physics (which
works on small scales) and relativistic physics (which works on large
scales). Hell, we can't even reconcile wave and particle. We can't solve
the three-body problem. The rate of advancement has accelerated, but it's just become very hard to know anything about what's being advanced.
------------- Hail Eris!
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 14:08
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I was merely responding to the fact you pointed out that technological progress draws upon scientific progress. I just don't know if your assertions are justified.
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Well that's a very interesting question without a definite answer. Sometimes technology follows very closely the developments of underlying science (maybe the steam power era or the birth of human-controlled electricity could be examples?) and sometimes one fact of underlying science may trigger long-lasting technological developments (take the long ongoing developments in electronics derived from the principles discovered in quantum physics so many years ago).
But at any rate, I'd say that to a certain extent technological progress draws on scientific progress.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 14:43
Not soon. That is good for medicine and all kinds of applications. On the other hand is a perfect excuse to make people buy useless sh*t every year. But whatever, it's here to stay and won't stop.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 15 2013 at 18:13
I agree with Pat, there is no natural law involved here, there is no limit to technological development that we are asymptotic to.
While Moore's Law is colloquially called "a law" it is not a physical or natural law, it is merely an observation and a prediction. Even when how small a transistor can practically be eventually bottoms-out as transistor geometry is ultimately limited at the atomic level, the size of the silicon substrate can increase in three dimensions essentially unchecked (there is a speed vs distance issue to address, but not every process within a system needs to occur at light-speed). If we can't make transistors smaller, we simply make chips bigger. In 1965 Moore stated that there was no reason why a large circuit cannot be built on a single wafer, (which in 1965 was 4 inches in diameter - now wafers can be 12 inches in diameter, 9 times the surface area), to date we haven't used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafer-scale_integration" rel="nofollow - wafer-scale integration as a viable manufacturing method.
But even if Moore's Law eventually does reach a finite limit that does not halt technology progress. An integrated circuit with 32 billion transistors is merely a count of how many "bricks" you have to build a "building", it does not limit how many "buildings" you can build, what they look like or what they will be used for. There are components in a PC that haven't changed (or progressed) in 50 years, and the PC would be as useless without them as it would without a 2billion transistor processor... The number of transistors in an integrated cuircuit does not limit technological development.
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In a previous thread I remarked that there have been no major technology breakthroughs in the past 20 years, and that is essentially true - every consumer gadget we have today originated at least twenty years ago, the technology they are made of is also ancient technology. We are seeing a steady progress in product development inspite of that lack of real technological innovation. Apple have achieved a everything they've ever produced in their entire history without having to invent, innovate or progress technology one single mm. Sure your new iPhone can stream movies and music, surf the interweb, it can remind you to phone your mum and to pick up the groceries, it take high-res pictures, track your position on Earth and plan your route so someother position on Earth, it can tell you which way is Up and which direction is North, it can talk to you and you can shout insistantly at it, it can identify a piece of music by "listening" and it show you where Arcturus is in the night-sky, and if you're really lucky it will have sufficient signal to allow you to call your mum - but none of those things are "new tech", they are just doing more "old tech" functions with "old tech".
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in spite of computing power increases we continue to use them for the same tasks and functions we always have, which means we are actually using less of the available processing power that the technology advances are providing us with. Most of that increased power and memory is being used in driving the operating system, the actual data manipulation that I bought the thing to do uses very little, and if I'm text editing (eg writing a paper, entering data into a spreadsheet, reading mail, posting on a forum or even just surfing the web etc), then that's barely even measurable. Our computers can multitask, but we're still not that good at it.
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Transportation technolgy plateaued 100 years ago - the basic concepts of the bicycle, automobile, ship and flying machine hasn't advanced a great deal in that period and until http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=earth-talk-charging-ahead" rel="nofollow - battery technology has a eureka moment we will continue to use combustion as a power source - but you cannot deny that development progress in all aspects of transportation has been continued since the days of Richard Pearse, George Cayley, Ferdinand Verbiest, Christian Huygens et al. (okay - and the Wright Bros and Karl Benz) - a modern automobile is more "advanced" than its vintage counterpart.
------------- What?
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 02:14
Right from the OP I conceded that electronics and computing are precisely some of the few areas where we are still seeing very fast progress (as you say, at least in application if not in the fundamental technology) and I believe that we have still a long way to go before it will slow down. I also predict that much of the near-future progress will be based in genetics, biochemistry / bio-engineering and possibly neuro-science. There's a lot of room for spectacular progress in these areas.
But IMHO in many other technological areas (call them the more 'physical' or 'mechanical' areas) progress has slowed down. While there may be no theoretical limit to technological progress, practical and economical considerations may prevent that progress from being achievable in practice. We could make commercial planes fly faster, but they would be uneconomical so we stopped the speed progress and stay at more or less the speed they fly since the 1970's.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 09:50
Not to be flippant but isn't the tech revolution supposed to lead us into the Singularity ....?
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 14:51
I think if technological progress slows down at any point in the next century it will be because of the people in power, not because we've reached any sort of limits.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 17:54
Gerinski wrote:
Right from the OP I conceded that electronics and computing are precisely some of the few areas where we are still seeing very fast progress (as you say, at least in application if not in the fundamental technology) and I believe that we have still a long way to go before it will slow down. |
So? I wanted to give my thoughts on my area of expertise.
Gerinski wrote:
I also predict that much of the near-future progress will be based in genetics, biochemistry / bio-engineering and possibly neuro-science. There's a lot of room for spectacular progress in these areas. |
If the ethics-conservatives allow it.
Gerinski wrote:
But IMHO in many other technological areas (call them the more 'physical' or 'mechanical' areas) progress has slowed down. While there may be no theoretical limit to technological progress, practical and economical considerations may prevent that progress from being achievable in practice. We could make commercial planes fly faster, but they would be uneconomical so we stopped the speed progress and stay at more or less the speed they fly since the 1970's. |
Commercial aircraft have actually slowed since the 1970s, the modern turboprop engine does not produce high-velocity thrust of a traditional jet engine where all of the thrust was produced by combustion exhaust. These engines use jet combustion to drive a shaft connected to a big fan that produces the thrust. The advantage is they use less fuel, which either gives a better fuel to payload ratio or a better fuel to range ratio - either way, the benefit is they are more cost effective than engines that produce high-velocity thrust. The development of the turboprop engine is a technology advance where the goal is fuel efficiency, not speed.
The limits to airspeed were imposed on ecological grounds (actually most of it was probably political rather than ecological) - supersonic flight was only permitted over water, which severely restricted when the aircraft (and that would be Concorde, because to date only one supersonic airliner has ever been put into service) could operate at its design speed.
However that does not mean that technological progress in aircraft design as slowed down, it just means the goals of progress have changed. ------------- What?
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 18:02
I'm more concerned with the population explosion, and the lack of clean drinking water for all those teeming billions-technological progress will mean nothing unless we solve these problems.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 18:29
Technological progress is the thing that will solve those problems.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 20:55
Technology already has solutions for producing clean water and viable low-tech solutions at that. There are also viable low tech methods of birth-control to address the issue from the opposite direction. The problem is not one that needs technology to solve.
------------- What?
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 21:18
Assuming technological progress is paired with our capacity to improve the mind, and assuming the mind can be improved or 'exercised', one could use the body as a physiologic example. The fittest human beings of a given generation, even with stringent exercise and diet, can only develop physically to a certain point without the addition of some derivative or synthetic like human growth hormone or steroids. Unless a 'brain steroid' is invented (which seems entirely plausible, and no 'smart-drugs' like hydergine don't count), it is possible the human brain will only develop to certain point on its own. But I suspect that's a long way off as the brain surely takes much longer to fully develop than the body. Heck you can get whipped into shape in two months. Try that with a physics degree.
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Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: July 16 2013 at 22:05
Dean wrote:
However that does not mean that technological progress in aircraft design as slowed down, it just means the goals of progress have changed. |
Bingo! I think this is a possible key element in this interesting topic. You could just about substitute any technology in the place of "aircraft design" and this statement would apply. You could, for the most part, insert "marketing" in the place of "goals of progress" as well.
Within our own engeringeering department (the place I am enslaved to for money), marketing research informs how and what to design in the next product (which pretty much does the same thing the last products did for the past 25 years, but better and smaller) even though there is a more robust and foolproof quality way of doing it, with the possibility of more breakthrough research that could occur if the funds were put into R-n-D.
If more funds were put into research and developement, I think progress would not "appear" to slow down.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 04:22
Atavachron wrote:
Assuming technological progress is paired with our capacity to improve the mind, and assuming the mind can be improved or 'exercised', one could use the body as a physiologic example. The fittest human beings of a given generation, even with stringent exercise and diet, can only develop physically to a certain point without the addition of some derivative or synthetic like human growth hormone or steroids. Unless a 'brain steroid' is invented (which seems entirely plausible, and no 'smart-drugs' like hydergine don't count), it is possible the human brain will only develop to certain point on its own. But I suspect that's a long way off as the brain surely takes much longer to fully develop than the body. Heck you can get whipped into shape in two months. Try that with a physics degree.
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There is the idea that "brain steroids" are DHA (omega-3 fatty acids) and AA (omega-6 fatty acids), both are linked to brain development and there is a theory that they were instrumental in the evolution of the human brain. There is also evidence (albeit tenuous and based upon limited fossil finds) that the human brain has shrunk over the past 250,000 years due to a change in diet away from foods rich on both those fatty acids. Of course there is a long way to go before that affects our ability to invent.
------------- What?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 04:25
AEProgman wrote:
Dean wrote:
However that does not mean that technological progress in aircraft design as slowed down, it just means the goals of progress have changed. |
Bingo! I think this is a possible key element in this interesting topic. You could just about substitute any technology in the place of "aircraft design" and this statement would apply. You could, for the most part, insert "marketing" in the place of "goals of progress" as well.
Within our own engeringeering department (the place I am enslaved to for money), marketing research informs how and what to design in the next product (which pretty much does the same thing the last products did for the past 25 years, but better and smaller) even though there is a more robust and foolproof quality way of doing it, with the possibility of more breakthrough research that could occur if the funds were put into R-n-D.
If more funds were put into research and developement, I think progress would not "appear" to slow down. |
Which leads to the old proverb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_is_the_mother_of_invention" rel="nofollow - necessity is the mother of invention .
------------- What?
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 04:38
Atavachron wrote:
Assuming technological progress is paired with our capacity to improve the mind, and assuming the mind can be improved or 'exercised', one could use the body as a physiologic example. The fittest human beings of a given generation, even with stringent exercise and diet, can only develop physically to a certain point without the addition of some derivative or synthetic like human growth hormone or steroids. Unless a 'brain steroid' is invented (which seems entirely plausible, and no 'smart-drugs' like hydergine don't count), it is possible the human brain will only develop to certain point on its own. But I suspect that's a long way off as the brain surely takes much longer to fully develop than the body. Heck you can get whipped into shape in two months. Try that with a physics degree.
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That's another intriguing aspect to the question. Even if scientific and technological theory has no limit, will we ever slow down simply because we are reaching our intellectual limits? everything is becoming so complex that nobody can learn even a small fraction of it all, we have had to specialize massively, there is possibly a limit to what a human can learn in a lifetime (although we will likely increase our average lifetime). It may be that because of such unavoidable specialization, we miss opportunities because nobody can make the link to another area of knowledge. Scientists in the old days were very frequently multi-discipline, they worked as well in physics issues, in chemistry, electricity, thermodynamics, etc and were able to grasp useful connections between the different areas. Nowadays it's virtually impossible for anybody to know so many areas into much detail.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 07:16
I have a few unfortunately disorganized things so say on my way out the door.
-There's this notion that specialization has grown as a result of a complexification of fields or a sort of scientific necessity, this is not necessarily true. It has developed in part because of economical / bureaucratic reasons. Nascent fields have few people working in them, so specialization makes little sense. As they grow and attract others, it becomes more economical to specialize simply to increase productivity. As scientific pursuits become industrialized, the incentives to do this only increase. In the academic realm, if two people are applying for similar research grants, all else equal, usually the more specialized individual will get the grant. With this in mind, I don't think you need to worry about things becoming so specialized so as to become inaccessible to thinkers.
-Scientists today are still multidisciplinary. It's a bunch of hoopla that they're not. Just in the past decade we've seen an explosion in interdisciplinary fields like compressive sensing, topological quantum theories, quantum computing, mathematical biology. Unification is a big deal in the sciences. We like to have multiple angles to view a phenomenon. Discovery in the vacuum of a single field can be very exciting, but it's usually not truly illuminating until it can jump the gap into other areas. The disparities between disciplines will most likely start to close in the coming years as we develop better theories of everything.
-Just because science is getting more complex, doesn't mean that it will continue to do so. For example, 300 years ago even top flight mathematicians struggled to understand the Calculus. It was simply too complex for many to understand properly. A good part of what the Bernoullis did was simply trying to teach other mathematicians the tools of the trade. Nowadays, teenagers, many of whom aren't particularly bright, get a fine understanding of the Calculus in high school.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 07:32
Well at the rate we're breeding, we should have quite the number of upcoming scientists, electronic buffs and general nerds ready for new technological progress, I suspect.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 07:35
Gerinski wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Assuming technological progress is paired with our capacity to improve the mind, and assuming the mind can be improved or 'exercised', one could use the body as a physiologic example. The fittest human beings of a given generation, even with stringent exercise and diet, can only develop physically to a certain point without the addition of some derivative or synthetic like human growth hormone or steroids. Unless a 'brain steroid' is invented (which seems entirely plausible, and no 'smart-drugs' like hydergine don't count), it is possible the human brain will only develop to certain point on its own. But I suspect that's a long way off as the brain surely takes much longer to fully develop than the body. Heck you can get whipped into shape in two months. Try that with a physics degree.
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That's another intriguing aspect to the question. Even if scientific and technological theory has no limit, will we ever slow down simply because we are reaching our intellectual limits? everything is becoming so complex that nobody can learn even a small fraction of it all, we have had to specialize massively, there is possibly a limit to what a human can learn in a lifetime (although we will likely increase our average lifetime). It may be that because of such unavoidable specialization, we miss opportunities because nobody can make the link to another area of knowledge. Scientists in the old days were very frequently multi-discipline, they worked as well in physics issues, in chemistry, electricity, thermodynamics, etc and were able to grasp useful connections between the different areas. Nowadays it's virtually impossible for anybody to know so many areas into much detail. |
Maybe we have to wait until our brains evolve. We basically have the same brain as our cave dwelling ancestors some 10.000 years ago.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 09:51
Guldbamsen wrote:
Maybe we have to wait until our brains evolve. We basically have the same brain as our cave dwelling ancestors some 10.000 years ago.
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I'm afraid waiting for natural evolution to do that job would take too long for most humans to have the patience. But it's possible that we will tinker with genetics in order to speed up directed evolution for that purpose.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 17 2013 at 20:37
Dean wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Assuming technological progress is paired with our capacity to improve the mind, and assuming the mind can be improved or 'exercised', one could use the body as a physiologic example. The fittest human beings of a given generation, even with stringent exercise and diet, can only develop physically to a certain point without the addition of some derivative or synthetic like human growth hormone or steroids. Unless a 'brain steroid' is invented (which seems entirely plausible, and no 'smart-drugs' like hydergine don't count), it is possible the human brain will only develop to certain point on its own. But I suspect that's a long way off as the brain surely takes much longer to fully develop than the body. Heck you can get whipped into shape in two months. Try that with a physics degree. |
There is the idea that "brain steroids" are DHA (omega-3 fatty acids) and AA (omega-6 fatty acids), both are linked to brain development and there is a theory that they were instrumental in the evolution of the human brain. There is also evidence (albeit tenuous and based upon limited fossil finds) that the human brain has shrunk over the past 250,000 years due to a change in diet away from foods rich on both those fatty acids. Of course there is a long way to go before that affects our ability to invent. |
Interesting; I take 50 mgs of DHEA daily, a similar hormone that begins to diminish after about forty-five and I admit my energy and wellness have improved markedly. Not sure about brain function as the cerebral sweet-spot seems to now be in one's forties anyway, but I'm sure it doesn't hurt.
I suppose one could argue that "brain steroids" would be detrimental in the same way longterm steroid use has shown to be harmful as well as addictive (surely a good sci-fi story in there somewhere). But let me also say this: it is a shame they have been abused and now so rarely prescribed by doctors. I realize and appreciate the potential dangers but prescribed by a responsible physician, steroids and Human Growth Hormones were a godsend to people with often crippling problems as arthritis, chronic back or leg pain, old injuries, asthma, you name it-- basically any kind of inflammation that causes people to suffer can be improved by careful steroid application. It's a pity.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 19 2013 at 01:49
Between Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's new vacuum cleaner and the urine-powered cellphones soon to hit stores, technology looks to be well in hand.
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Posted By: Einhander
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 12:41
I think that with social media and facebook, the perception is that certain technology is crazy. But I'd much rather look at the internet on a real screen than a 3 inch screen. Anything my iphone can do, my computer can pretty much do. And facebook is really not that special of a site, just a very popular myspace.
We need to use technology for people who need it, people dying, people who are blind. Give them all an option.
As far as Americans, technology is making them dumber and dumber. An American doesn't deserve the technology that it has.
So in a way, technology hasn't changed much. People are brainwashed to give out personal info on the web these days and it so our perception is that you can find out anything about anybody. But people across the globe are still dying, starving. A lazy American on the other hand worsens themselves by consuming technology.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 13:16
I believe that 2113 will be as different from today as today ( 2013) is from 1913.
Technology and human invention/creativity is exponential in growth, not linear, and this has been studied and even given a specific name though at the moment it eludes me.
I won't live to see these changes since I have at best about 20 years left but it will indeed be a 'brave new world'.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 13:51
Dean wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
Right from the OP I conceded that electronics and computing are precisely some of the few areas where we are still seeing very fast progress (as you say, at least in application if not in the fundamental technology) and I believe that we have still a long way to go before it will slow down. |
So? I wanted to give my thoughts on my area of expertise.
Gerinski wrote:
I also predict that much of the near-future progress will be based in genetics, biochemistry / bio-engineering and possibly neuro-science. There's a lot of room for spectacular progress in these areas. |
If the ethics-conservatives allow it.
Gerinski wrote:
But IMHO in many other technological areas (call them the more 'physical' or 'mechanical' areas) progress has slowed down. While there may be no theoretical limit to technological progress, practical and economical considerations may prevent that progress from being achievable in practice. We could make commercial planes fly faster, but they would be uneconomical so we stopped the speed progress and stay at more or less the speed they fly since the 1970's. |
Commercial aircraft have actually slowed since the 1970s, the modern turboprop engine does not produce high-velocity thrust of a traditional jet engine where all of the thrust was produced by combustion exhaust. These engines use jet combustion to drive a shaft connected to a big fan that produces the thrust. The advantage is they use less fuel, which either gives a better fuel to payload ratio or a better fuel to range ratio - either way, the benefit is they are more cost effective than engines that produce high-velocity thrust. The development of the turboprop engine is a technology advance where the goal is fuel efficiency, not speed.
The limits to airspeed were imposed on ecological grounds (actually most of it was probably political rather than ecological) - supersonic flight was only permitted over water, which severely restricted when the aircraft (and that would be Concorde, because to date only one supersonic airliner has ever been put into service) could operate at its design speed.
However that does not mean that technological progress in aircraft design as slowed down, it just means the goals of progress have changed. |
Quite so.
In terms of radio controlled aircraft/boats/cars &c. technology has really moved on fast in the past 10 years. However, this has used existing technology that has been improved on.
- 35 MHz. is mostly being replaced by 2.4 GHz. (and eventually that will also be replaced) - electric power is becoming far more popular and more efficient (yet batteries can still be dangerous in the wrong hands, as a 2-stroke/4-stroke model engine can) - radio Transmitters/receivers are mostly digital now (due partly to 2.4 GHz.) - due to both 2.4 GHz. and smaller and more efficient electric motors, smaller indoor aircraft can now be flown on 2 or 3-channels (some even on 4-channels) -- micro-servos and receivers are obviously lighter - there's also better covering materials and many ARTF models now use foam rather than balsa - FlyCams are also becoming increasingly popular due to the miniaturisation of camera technology and you can even fly an R/C aeroplane from a screen now (a bit like Track IR on a flight simulator)
The fundamentals of flight/aerodynamics haven't changed and unlikely will. Yet the miniaturisation and improvement of existing technology will continue.
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