Favorite Proto-Prog Album
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=94100
Printed Date: December 18 2024 at 13:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Favorite Proto-Prog Album
Posted By: dr wu23
Subject: Favorite Proto-Prog Album
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 15:44
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I'm sure someone must have had a similar thread before but I couldn't bring one up on search. So what is your single favorite Proto-Prog album of all time from the early days when prog was still in it's infancy between 1967 and 1970...?
As much as I like the Beatles-Pepper, The Doors-Strange Days, and Jefferson Airplane-Crown of Creation, and many others.....I find myself over the years playing 'Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus' by Spirit more than any other proto prog record. When I first heard it in college in 1970 at IU Bloomington, IN I was knocked out by the quality and variety of songs.
What's your story?
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Replies:
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 15:56
| Revolver |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 16:11
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The Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed and Procol Harum's Live in Concert with the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 16:47
You nailed it for me with "Twelve Dreams"! However, I also tip the hat to "Sgt. Pepper's" as a tremendous influence.
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dr wu23 wrote:Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 16:49
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Well ...the PA 'guys' consider The Moody Blues and Procol to be crossover/prog rock and not proto prog per se....but those are certainly 2 early bands with an early prog sound...and I might have chose In Search Of The Lost Chord which we played the crap out of also in college.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 17:11
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 17:32
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At the moment it's Live At Leeds, specifically the version with Tommy played on it. I prefer Tommy played live enormously. If i can't choose that, then it would be Who's Next. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 17:52
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Fock me!
Unbelievable.
It just goes on...and on..and on.
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/thumbnailCA73BQ3M.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 18:48
Touch - 1968
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 19:07
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Awlroight!
FINALLY someone who got it right.
(By no means the best proto lp, but at least someone here apparently has some idea what proto-prog entails.)
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 20:01
 ------------- |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 18 2013 at 20:50
One of my early favorites....I remember buying that at a small record store at college and it came with that odd yellow band of tape around it. Of course as everyone knows the keyboard player was from the Kingsmen of Louie Louie fame.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 00:37
| ^ Beautiful piano work! |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 03:55
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 05:03
 ------------- 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 05:23
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Tough question really. There are so many fine albums from the late 60s it's insane. Arthur Brown, Doors' debut, Band of Gypsys, The United States of America, Pretty Things' SF Sorrow and the list literally goes on and on... If Steve Miller Band were featured on PA - I might've picked eiter Children of the Future or Sailor. Love those two! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 05:57
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This Record  ------------- |
Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 06:18
This. By a mile. Period.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 06:34
The question was not which is the "BEST" but what is your "FAVOURITE", for which there is no right or wrong, just personal preference. But hey, don't let that stop you being a self-appointed snob of proto porg, you carry on old son. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 07:51
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Dean, perhaps it is that you WISH me to carry on so you can learn the error of your - and pretty well this entire forums - ways (when it comes to proto-prog.)
Not sure Im arsed enough to edify.
If you are serious - go to progressive ears or better yet galactic zoo forum.
What has happened here is what I call "cow bird" - the cow bird waits till another species builds it nest then takes over that nest.
The true meaning of "proto-prog" was laid down maybe as much as two decades before Progarchives came up with vastly generalizing the term to mean basically anything that developed out of psych (not "psyche" guys - psyche is "the soul"), pop and ROCK and embryonically began to wiggle towards what was to be progressive rock.
Think - where you think the TERM first came out of: web forums? I can assure you it did not.
Books on prog?
Of course not - it predated all that.
I lay odds it came out of those old (in some cases, yellow-brown paper) lp dealer catalogues that came in the mail to (serious) collectors.
The true meaning of "proto-prog" is it is simply a DISTINCTIVE SOUND that was pushed to make it easier for collectors to get what they were after.
It is NOT a genre (as progarchives would have it). It was mainly Hammond-organ-driven. (General rule, I would say - if its got synth in it, its not proto.). Mellotron can be there also. It was mainly a UK thing, but American proto CAN be identified.
It was mainly A VERY SLIM PERIOD in music's history, usually '69 but you CAN have clearly identifiable proto in '70 and even further on, due to fact that some countries were bit back in time - remember we are stressing THE SOUND here. The INITIAL appearance of the SOUND on vinyl. So you have "backward" countries like Denmark with (compared to the population number) a surprizing wealth of proto being put out as late as '71.
I repeat. Progarchives has taken the dealer-term , built their nest there, gave it their own spin ; made something other of it.
Perfectly alright, I expect. But I wish they would call it something else other than PROTO prog. (Maybe Burgeoning Prog?)
For instance The Who would NEVER be considered proto - they never had the Vertigo,Dawn,Nepentha - etc record label sound.
And for Progarchives in their "best proto lp " picture section to stress something like Deep Purple "Machinehead" and overlook the only one that is remotely proto, "Book of Talysein". (spelt wrong- yeah, who f**ks) is misleading in the least.
What you are speaking of in this thread is simply pop ,bluesrock , psych and ROCK wot began to merge into the oncoming prog.
Your speaking of something very broad, a parameter . Something that varies in different cases.
Whereas the origional, REAL meaning of protoprog is something extremely select and finite.
I dont want to go into it right now, (because it takes some digging on my part and I gots a lawn to mow), but if you seriously want to know what the proto sound is and why it is IMMEDIATELY recognizable on hearing (although difficult to pin down in words) search old Progressive Ears posts for the list of 100 protoprog lps.
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 07:57
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Favorite proto prog lp?.
Sorry - cant even come out with a fav 10 list for you.
Just too many good ones.
Besides I try not to play this rather meaningless favorites or "best of" (music forums) game.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 08:04
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tl;dr ------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 08:47
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"tldr"
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/E2K6CAXVR575CAJLNCZRCADLANH4CAOEFO2DCAPVQ8L8CATFRCIHCAEKKU2KCA82HNR3CAHXJ291CAG0FDH7CABDOVN5CAFY41V8CA70VX0UCAU4MSJMCAHCXIBRCA80SB4OCAWFV7ZQ.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 "Thou lousy dick-rider" ???
Are you calling Wallace a dick-rider?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 08:52
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You shouldn't go around trying on hats at random unless you want one of them to fit. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 08:56
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/watchit.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 09:16
Drop the "best" part of the equation then. List a few albums you think of as being proto-prog, and then perhaps we'll better understand where you're coming from. And don't think everybody in here mistake all the made up stickers for truth. Most of us use them as reference points, just as we use words like shoe, potato and lollipop. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 09:40
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Fair enough.
For you, Guldbamsen, I have gone to the bother of trying to find that old list someone from PE laid down.
Too bad forum noobs and people like Dean are not willing to bother to look into this.
Head in the sand,loikes.
2066 & Then - Reflections!
A-Austr Musics from Holy Ground Abacus - s/t Ache - De Homine Urbano Ache - Green Man Affinity - s/t Aquila - s/t Arc - At this Arcadium - Breathe Awhile Arzachel - s/t Battered Ornaments - A Meal You Can Shake Hands With In The Dark Battered Ornaments - Mantlepiece Atomic Rooster - Death Walks Behind You Beggars Opera - Act One Beggars Opera - Pathfinder Beggars Opera - Waters of Change Black Widow - Sacrifice Bodkin - s/t Bram Stoker - Heavy Rock Spectacular Burnin' Red Ivanhoe - M144 Burnin' Red Ivanhoe - WWW Catapilla - Changes Catapilla - s/t Cirkus - One Colosseum - Daughter of Time Colosseum - Valentyne Suite Comus - First Utteranace Cressida - Asylum Cressida - s/t Culpepers Orchard - s/t Czar - s/t Dear Mr. Time -Grandfather Diabolus - s/t Earth & Fire-same East of Eden - Mercator Projected East of Eden - s/t Egg - The Polite Force Egg - s/t Fairfield Parlour - From Home to Home Family - Family Entertainment Fantasy - Beyond the Beyond Fantasy - Paint a Picture Fields - s/t Frumpy - Frumpy Fuchsia - s/t Fusion Orchestra - Skeleton in Armour Fuzzy Duck - s/t Galliard - New Dawn Galliard - Strange Pleasure Gnidrolog - In Spite of Harry's Toenail Gnidrolog - Lady Lake Gracious - This is... Gracious!! Gracious - s/t Gravy Train - Ballad of a Peaceful Man Gravy Train - Second Birth Greenslade - s/t Greenwood, Nicholas - Cold Cuts High Tide - Sea Shanties High Tide - s/t Indian Summer - s/t Jan Dukes de Grey - Mice & Rats in the Loft Jody Grind - Far Canal Jonesy - Growing Julian Jay Savarin - Waiters on the Dance Julian's Treatment - A Time Before This Kestrel - s/t Khan - Space Shanty Kingdom Come - Galactic Zoo Dossier Kingdom Come - Journey Krokodil - An Invisible World... Locomotive - We Are Everything You See Love Sculpture - Forms & Feelings Manfred Mann's Chapter Three Vol. 1 & 2 Marsupilami - Arena Marsupilami - s/t Mellow Candle - Swaddling Songs Missing Link - Nevergreen! Odin - s/t Orange Peel - s/t Out of Focus - Wake Up Out of Focus - s/t Pete Brown & Piblokto - Thousands on a Raft Pete Brown & Piblokto - Things May Come and Things May Go but the Art School Dance Goes on Forever Parlour Band - Is a Friend? Procol Harum - Shine on Brightly Quatermass - s/t Quicksand - Home is Where I belong Rare Bird - As Your Mind Flies By Rare Bird - s/t Raw Material - Time is... Room - Pre-Flight Samurai - s/t Sandrose - s/t Second Hand - Death May Be Your Santa Claus Skin Alley - s/t Spring - s/t Still Life - s/t Subject Esq - s/t T2 - It'll All Work Out in Boomland The Greatest Show on Earth - Horizons Titus Groan - s/t Tonton Macoute - s/t Touch - s/t Tractor - s/t Traffic - John Barleycorn Must Die Warm Dust - And It Came To Pass Web - I Spider Wind - Seasons That is a pretty reasonable list. As you see, mostly UK. (Not sure why he included "John Barleycorn " there and I would have kept out Wind -Seasons lp (as I recall thats just too symphonic, but I may be confusing with their other lp.)
One curiosity I would include is the Jess & James certain lp -I think it was "Move On". Certainly protoprog sound, yet they came out of a SOUL background!
Proof that it doesnt HAVE to be psych-sourced.
So, what you say, Guld? You familiar with any of these?
If not ,youtube them and discover the distinct stylistic similarities.
THAT is what protoprog is about.
Nothing else.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 11:52
You know what - I was expecting something completely different  All the albums with stars after em are the ones I own myself, and I think you have a point(not about the genre definitions here on PA though  ). These albums all bear a similar fingerprint. That early prog rock feel with loads of organs, flutes and guitars. I didn't know that it was called something though, but then again I imagine a lot of (old) folks getting all dizzy trying to get a handle on the subs we have here.If I understand the - let's just say style eh - correctly, then I think you could add a couple more German bands. Ikarus fx: Ardo Dombec: and Nine Days o' Wonder: Hot damn!!! All three albums in their entireties on ze tube ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 12:52
Sand in the ears is preferable to what some people accumulate when their heads are firmly rammed into darker places...
One problem here is lack of understanding of "how things are" - we don't have multi-tagging, ergo we cannot tag all the bands that were ever protoprog as being Proto Prog - so most of that list is already included in the PA under a different tag (for whatever reason - frankly pigeonholing music is a dumb lose-lose game, anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over it should get out more) ... Most if the albums in your list can be found here - I guess the one notable exception is Pete Brown in his various forms (which is part of the problem with him in the first place - Battered Ornaments, Piblokto! Flying Tigers, and solo are all interlinked and there are good reasons for listing them separately and equally good reasons to list them altogether - if we ever decide to list them at all, our system is not well suited to dealing with exceptions - *shrug* - it's not the end of the world) - perhaps he should be in Proto Prog, perhaps not - personally I think should be listed here as a Progressive Rock artists, not shuffled off into the Proto or Related corner.
If the PA was a history book or an encyclopedia of Prog then these things would be resolved differently perhaps, but we're neither of those things, we're an open access review site, if you want to review Fairfield Parlour's "From Home to Home" (why sneer at Kaleidoscope if Fairfield Parlour is acceptable?) or Second Hand's "Death May Be Your Santa Claus" (or Chillum .. or even either of the two Seventh Wave albums) or read a review any of them, then they are here, so what's the problem?
------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 13:53
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Yes, you can add lotta German bands. Kravetz and Mammut come to mind. From Check. I'd definitely add ...damn, I forget them now!
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 14:02
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Dean: all problems are instantly resolved if I am allowed to post piccies of Babs about to burst out of her bikini top here: http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/carry_zpsd04e6b11.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Is it alright?
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 14:06
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/WindsorBarbaraCoC02.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 14:09
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/imagesCAKW3ZXY.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 14:25
 (imagine this emoticon slowed down by a factor of 5)
What, this Kravetz?: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4795" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4795 added in 2004
What, this Mammut?: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3214" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3214 added in 2004
 any more? Or are you going to search for them in our database yourself before suggesting them?------------- What? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 14:42
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Despite its flaws, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown has a magic that few records can match. ------------- 
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 15:39
Progarchives database is the be-all and end-all?
When did this database start, and I will tell you how many decades (one, two or three) before that when I knew of Kravitz & Mammut. (Truth to tell, its only in the last half decade that I learned of the other Kravitz "same" lp with different band name.)
And what is the point of all this anyways? - besides the usual glorifying of Progarchives.
Be cool. Its becoming telling.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 16:20
Sigh.....the point of my thread was about people listing their personal favorite proto prog lp...what ever that meant to them. It was not about best or how various people define proto prog, which is subjective anyway, or another thread to argue categories and classifications. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 16:23
It wasn't so hard. I'd never heard of Kravetz or Mammut prior to your post, if they were bands that we should consider adding then we should look into them. My first move in any suggestion made to us (normally in the Suggest New Bands and Artists section of the forum) regardless of who suggests it is to double check they're not already listed - that's simple expediency as we do get a number of suggestions for artists we've already added. It was unlucky/unfortunate for you that both artists were already here. If you want to suggest more artists we can add then go ahead, but I would prefer you did that double-check first. If that's me being small then so be it, if it was just a low jibe then it's water off a duck's back.
Progarchives is not the be-all or the end-all, it is one of many such sites dedicted to Progressive Rock, which in turn is not the be-all and end-all of music genres. Nor are we the only review site or the only discography site or the only one with a forum. No one here knows everything there is to know about everything, but most people here know something about something - by pooling that knowledge we add to the database a piece at a time, that's how collaborative websites work. I couldn't give a rat's when you first heard of any particular artist, this isn't a competition, if you want to score points with your knowledge then go on Mastermind, but if you want share your knowledge and help us to add more German artists then suggest artists we've not found already.
It's cool like a cucumber - green on the outside but gives you gas if you eat a whole one.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 16:49
My first post here gave my favourite Proto album: Kaleidoscope's A Tangerine Dream - this was one of the first albums I ever bought all those years ago (The Move's debut was the other) and it is still one of my favourite albums. The cover is a little dog-eared and worse for wear but albums are made to be played, not just to look at. Superficially it's a relatively simple psychedelic pop album, and a bit twee in parts, (then in 1967 that was to be expected), but there's more to it than that in terms of composition and song structure that pushed them ahead of their psyche-pop contemporaries. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 17:23
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"multi-tagging", "pidgeonholing","categories and classifications."
You two gentlemen have not had the decency to READ my words. I am not asking for a protoprog cubby AT ALL on this forum, like you deem it I am.
I repeat: protoprog is just a dealer term to link certain bands to a distinguishable sound. It is NOT A GENRE which need coverage or pidgeonholing here.
Sheesh! How many more times I gotta pound this in your heads. You just do not want to listen. You want to argue.
I call raging bigotry against the Masterman!
You should do the right thing and give a Masterman's words the regard they necessitate.
Have an open mind.
Not "tl;dr".
...
And its not "psychE-pop", it is "popsike"!!
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Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 17:27
Still, Sgt. Pepper's. The album had it all, string sections, harps, sitars, trons, found sounds, calliopes, psychedelic lyrics, and one of the best album endings ever!  ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 17:29
No problem...................btw, both of those are fine lp's from the early days. I always liked the Move and I picked up the Kaleidoscope collection on cd a few years back. Time to play it again. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 18:17
If we've purloined a terminology that you feel applies to something completely different, then such is life, the world will end shortly and everything will be fine after that.
Odd though, I don't recall abrieviating psychedelic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_pop" rel="nofollow - pop ) to psych-with-an-E pop but thanks for the tip, but that does sound like a dealer term to me. [edit: ah, I see I that did in a different post, my error, I stand corrected]
------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 19:28
I have nothing against this.
All I'm saying is re-name the entire section, taking out the word "proto".
Call it "Bands That Weren't Quite Prog But... and Prog-Related Lounge".
Call it "Rudimentary-Prog and Prog-related..."
Please.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 19:32
 nope.------------- What? |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 19:58
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I like proto. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 21:18
I don't go by PA's bewildering categories. the question regarded favorite proto-prog albums, and I consider The Moodys and Procol proto-prog, as in prog-like sensibilities before such sensibilities were defined, cast in stone and given arcane designations that only Dean can explain to me. But please, let us move on. This runaway train has been derailed enough. How's about HP Lovecraft's first album: or their second album, for that matter: ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 22:13
Love HP Lovecraft....always thought of them as psych rock, but they could certainly fit in with 'proto-prog'.. .oh...wait a minute, they aren't on Mr Knobby's list....sorry.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2013 at 22:26
Well, there are certainly prog elements amidst the detritus of psychedelia. Maybe we can call it psych-proto-prog and conduct a letter writing campaign to get it put on Mr. Knobby's pretentious list. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 07:57
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Now that's a new one:
Prog-luver using the "pretentious" word on another fellow prog luver's arris.
Despicable.
I call BAN.
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/Fripp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 19:47
I am a lover of a wide range of music, not merely progressive. I don't make exclusive claims and Domesday lists regarding what should and should not be in a music genre that did not even exist during the time frame we are discussing. I call a flagrant misuse of the English language with colloquialisms and net-speak. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 20:01
Friggin labels.....WTF? Proto works just fine ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 20:59
This is more than The Knobster can bear.
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/setsinjpg.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 This must be the 5th time I be reiterating this in this thread alone: PROTO IS NOT A GENRE. PROTO IS NOT A GENRE. PROTO-PROG IS NOT A GENRE!
What...just what is THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 21:09
Is this really worth yelling about? 
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 22:29
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Terje Rypdal as Proto-Prog act
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 22:32
Proto Prog is maybe my favorite genre on the site, -------------
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 20 2013 at 22:36
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Proto-Prog is the reason why i created a profile here in the first place. ------------- |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 05:11
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 05:37
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Genre(s) is/are made for Promotional comfort and/or to make boxing easy for the Music Press.
As a listner its compleetly irrelevant, everything is entangled and at the same time uniq, nothing will fit in a box.
------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 06:41
Now this is a goodie methinks......We Are Everything You See by Lokomotive (UK, Birmingham) Not listed on the archive but given the huge range of influences assimilated by Prog, were we to include everything that may have shaped the beast, the progenitors would have outnumbered the descendants? ------------- 
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 07:45
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As you state, Locomotive came out of Birmingham.
If you look a bit into my list you may discover much of this music came from either UK Midlands or even more north UK up to Scotland - not from London art schools, but from rough blue-collar towns.
Also as many would have it, it was NOT classically-inspired.
And I'm not hearing that much that it is a direct jumpboard from psych.
To my ears, if anything at all the proto SOUND had evolved out of something like instrumental UK take on bluesrock-jazz.
Graham Bond was not merely historically-important for mellotron, but much of proto can be traced back down to him and things like Alexis Korner Band. I think Dick Heath may just support me on this - only he doesnt seem to be posting here anymore.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 08:02
Arguments are pointless regarding genres, ...let's hear your favorite early proto prog lp's and talk about the music. btw...Locomotive is definitely a cool lp. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 08:13
| ITS NOT A GENRE, FOR FOX'S SAKE! |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 08:31
Yes, I agree that the likes of Graham Bond, Brian Auger, Don Shinn and Alexis Korner's roles in the gestation of the Prog beastie is rather under-appreciated and the strong jazz influence at that time subsequently retreated circa the ascendancy of Yes, ELP, Crimson, Genesis et al. However, I'm a bit skeptical about the North/South UK divide re parental disputes about the cradle of Prog and would support the idea that 60's Art Schools (irrespective of location) were pivotal in much subsequent progressive music. From memory, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, Keith Richards, Thunderclap Newman, Pretty Things et al emerged from such establishments. -------------
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 08:50
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Of course, Wallace never stated art schools were not important to pwog.
I said, seems the proto-sound came mainly outta elsewhere than the posh knoblandia.
(Those Don Shinn lps are killer, and no one heard them. FINALLY one has bin reissued.)
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Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 09:00
All Iron Butterfly ------------- I am currently digging: Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz! Please drop me a message with album suggestions. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 18:26
Move on Knobby.....you sound like a broken record. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: June 21 2013 at 19:19
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I haven't listened to it in years, but I couldn't get enough of The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp when I first heard it. Not saying it was important or incredible or influential, just that it's my favorite album listed under Proto-Prog on this website. Second would be SF Sorrow by The Pretty Things. Proto-Prog seems like a good term to define the music to me. I don't care if it's a Genre or not, and I don't know what would give anyone the authority to declare with absolute definition that it isn't. It just amazes me how adamant some folks are that everyone categorizes music the same way they do. Least favorite? I've never liked anything by The Doors |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 07:23
I only obtained a copy of Giles Giles and Fripp about a year ago....even though I 'm a KC fan I never had the urge to get a copy of it. SFSorrow is an excellent early lp and as far as the Doors, being an American and 61, I of course had all the singles and early lp's but I always felt they could have been better and were a bit cheesy at times. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 11:36
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If I go with the definition of proto-prog as 60's releases that laid the foundations for 70's prog I'd say my faves are these 10 1) Beatles - Sgt Peppers 2) Zappa - Uncle Meat 3) Procol Harum - Shine On Brightly 4) Van Der Graaf Generator - Aerosol Grey Machine 5) Soft Machine - Volumes I & II 6) Simon & Garfunkel - Bookends 7) Rolling Stones - Between the Buttons 8) Renaissance - s/t 9) Pink Floyd - Piper at the Gates of Dawn 10) Doors - Strange Days ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 12:13
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Bookends.
Killer lp.
Possibly the best lp to come out of Americay.
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Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 14:04
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The Doors — The Doors
------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 14:17
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SPRING - my fave proto-prog album thus far - not just for the mellotron madness either........
Wonderful album. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 16:07
"Bridge Over Troubled Water" was #1 throughout the entire world and sold a gazillion copies, but I've always liked "Bookends" much better. I think it's incredibly under-rated as a proto-prog masterpiece. Side 1 is quite the prog suite...a concept on ageing beginning with an unaccompanied guitar piece (forshadowing Fripp on "Poseidon"), dark synthesizer drones & effects (programmed by none other than Bob Moog), my fave S&G song "America" (which we all know Yes covered on Yesterdays) and "Voices of Old People" (which set's the stage for Godspeed You Black Emporer's "They Don't Sleep Anymore on the Beach"). Side 2 is a collection of outstanding songs, many with a pop-prog sensibility...yup...fantastic album. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: June 22 2013 at 18:10
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so I went to youtube and listened to all the tracks from the album and band Touch. Holy cow. This is great. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 01:48
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Don't expect any special insights from me here.
Even though I've heard of Lovecraft, Sardonicus etc., I choose the proto-prog album which is rated the highest by the members of PA: Abbey Road by the Beatles. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:39
So, is Abbey Road your favorite prot-prog album, or did you choose it because it's the highest rated on PA? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:50
Hmm....never thought of Bookends as 'proto prog' and they aren't listed here but it is certainly a great lp. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 13:26
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Its not protoprog obviously. Awesome record nonetheless. (They cant all be protoprog) And protoprog IS WOT WALLACE SAYS IT IS! http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/14003d16.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 17:08
-------------  
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Posted By: Einsetumadur
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 17:26
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The Byrds - The Notorious Byrd Brothers (1967) What an eclectic and spiritual record - the 'folkified' psych R&B of "Goin' Back", the surreal backing vocals and Gene Clark's crude metre in "Get To You", Moog drones in "Space Odyssey", jazz in "Natural Harmony" and "Tribal Gathering" (the latter with early acid rock riffs), the softly pulsating drone of "Draft Morning" - and a set of tremendously good bonus tracks. Every track is utterly sophisticated, no genre is omitted in this eclectic mixture which only lasts mere 29 minutes. A shame that this groundbreaking band isn't permitted entry to the Progarchives.  ------------- All in all each man in all men |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: June 23 2013 at 18:19
Good call. Speaking of the Byrds, I always considered Eight Miles High (1966) to be one of the first proto-prog classics. My favourite cover version was released in 1984 by Husker Du. I think it captures the essence of the song and kicks it up a few notches  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBKyBlJ_JN8" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBKyBlJ_JN8 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Einsetumadur
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 04:17
A really good cover of a perfect song, yes. My favorite version however
is the RCA Demo by The Byrds from 1965, the one with the heavy lead guitars
and smashing Hillman bass lines.Another proto-prog recommendation: Golden Earring's Eight Miles High album with a side-long jam on "Eight Miles High". One of the few proto-prog records which have a pretty distinct taste, and not too many Tull or Deep Purple copies. ------------- All in all each man in all men |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 14:42
Great lp but that came out in '71 and imo is definitely prog rock ala the Strawbs sound , not early proto music. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 17:00
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Spring is PROTOprog.
'71 is late, still its definitely The Sound (even though it is not Hammond-heavy.)
Late bloomer, loikes.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 17:37
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This thread gets ever more ridiculous with each passing day. What next? Someone declares Pawn Hearts, Nursery Cryme, Fragile, Meddle, Islands, Aqualung, Tarkus, Acquiring The Taste, The Land Of Grey & Pink, Dance Of The Lemmings, Tago Mago and In Search Of Space as Proto Prog?
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Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 19:21
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Proto was first coined IN REFERENCE TO ROCK by record dealers as being a certain sound. This was long before any other connotations were made. The initial specific meaning stays.
A PROG MASTERMAN has declared it so.
(And I am not the only Masterman to do so either.)
You wans to go literal on me arris Dean, then you must be one of those who take Krautrock as meaning rock made in Germany and not what it was - once again, specifically , made to describe origionally.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 19:24
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 19:57
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/baggra/media/Bitco/psych/Mr__Horse_by_Ren_and_Stimpy_Club.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 20:39
I concur with Dean. By 1971, there was no such thing as "proto-prog". The very idea is absurd. Tull releases Aqualung and records Thick as a Brick in 1971, King Crimson already released 3 albums and releases Islands by year's end, both The Yes Album and Fragile are out in 1971, Soft Machine are on their 4th album, ELP has released 2 albums. "progressive rock" has neared or reached its crest as far as a popular music genre. By mere definition, you can't be "proto" after the fact, Jack. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Knobby
Date Posted: June 24 2013 at 21:32
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Jesus!
Are these apes Im trying to reason with here?
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Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 01:16
| All hail the Prog Masterman! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 03:38
In the evolutionary hierarchy of primates, apes find monkeys amusing, and then they eat them - at present we find you amusing. So let's dispense with childish playground taunting and name-calling.
Krautrock is a flag of (in)convenience, it is not "a sound" or style, there are no musical similarities within the bands that get tagged "Krautrock", even when that is narrowed down (as some do) to regional geographies such as Köln, Berlin or München. It is simply convenient to lump a Japanese or Turkish band that sounds like some a priori classified band from Germany together in the same remainder-bin at a record collector's fayre. Unlike many here, (including yourself it would seem), I'm a purist, I don't believe that later bands that sounded like Caravan should be called Canterbury, later bands that sound like Can should not be called Krautrock, and bands that make music like Henry Cow should not be called RIO if they were not part of the RIO movement ... because none of those "classifications" or "sub-genres" are musicological names for identifiable and describable musical styles, they are simply what we call them... So bands that made music that sounded like Proto Prog after there was a genre called Prog should not be called Proto Prog... and that's nothing to do with going all literal on your arse. But as I say, I'm a purist. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 05:29
| I agree with Knobby. Many bands have continued with proto sound after 1970, so that we can call these bands proto prog; i.e. the same as we call krautrock a band who released a debut album in 2013 e.g. in Italy. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 05:36
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Savage Rose : In the Plain ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 05:51
What makes that Italian band "Krautrock"? Serious question. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 06:16
Nothing makes it krautrock if you like that, but we still call it krautrock. So, why we call it krautrock? There's some reason for that. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 06:23
Laziness? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 06:27
Of course not. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: June 25 2013 at 06:34
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Are you talking about :
Post Krautgressivo Italiano ? ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |