Thoughts on Master of Reality
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90230
Printed Date: December 18 2024 at 21:34
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Thoughts on Master of Reality
Posted By: thellama73
Subject: Thoughts on Master of Reality
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 14:56
|
I just bought Black Sabbath's Vol. 4 and have been sufficiently impressed by it to revisit their earlier work, listening to all of it heavily over the weekend. I know that many people consider Master of Reality their master(ofreality)piece but have never really understood why. I actually much prefer Vol. 4 to it. Listening to it again, I realized that my main problem with Master of Reality is side one. Side two is rock solid, but apart from Children of the Grave,which is an absolute monster, I don't find that much to like about the first side. That impression is probably what turned me off about the record initially and prevented me from giving side two a fair hearing. Sweet Leaf is too overt in its celebration of marijuana (I much prefer metaphor like in Snowblind) and always struck me as pretty dumb. After Forever feels really out of place to me with its very unsubtle Christian lyrics. I'd love to get other people's thoughts on the record and Black Sabbath's early work in general. ------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 14:59
|
For me Sweet Leaf is the best song, so........ ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 15:34
|
Here's what I wrote in my MMA review of the album.
Five stars, which is also the rating I gave Paranoid. The somehow unfocused and thinner Vol 4, while still great classic Sabbath for the most part, was a slight dip before return to brilliance on the next two albums. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
|
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 15:42
|
Allmusic says Sweet Leaf has "one of the greatest guitar riffs ever committed to record." That seems to be the general consensus, but I have never liked that riff. There are three or four others on the album I like a lot better.
-------------
|
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 16:41
| Vol. 4 is my favorite Sabbath album, and I too have never really understood the hype around Master. |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 17:09
|
Like you, thellama73, I much prefer Vol. 4, which I think contains many of their best songs ("Wheels of Confusion", "Tomorrow's Dream", "Supernaut", "Snowblind", "Laguna Sunrise", "Under the Sun"). Master of Reality, I think, has two classics: "Children of the Grave" with its ultimate chugging riff and quasi-tribal percussion and Into the Void, which might the heaviest song ever recorded. As for the rest of the record: "Solitude", albeit overlong and monotonous, is quite lovely and may contain the only good vocal
performance by Ozzy Osbourne ever ("Planet Caravan" doesn't count
because his voice is unrecognizable). "After Forever" is rather strong, but the lyrics are incredibly awful even by this band's standards (I don't object to Christian themes, but Butler's effort to put forth a convincing argument for Christianity backfires immensely) and that upbeat, almost boogie-ish section doesn't gel too well with the 'urgent' main riff. The riff to "Sweet Leaf" is so dumb that it's almost cool again and the fast interlude towards the middle is quite entertaining. Plus, Ozzy contributes maybe his most unintentionally brilliant moment in the way he screams out "my life is freeeeeeeeeeeeee now". "Lord of This World" is one of three by-the-numbers Sabbath songs (the others are "Cornucopia" and "St. Vitus' Dance") that I always think are totally lame but nevertheless entertain me a bit when they're on.The two short tracks are completely dispensable. So in the end that's two great songs, four okay ones and two minutes of filler. That makes a solid three stars. By contrast, Vol. 4 has six great songs, three okay ones and also two minutes of filler ("Changes" barely makes the "okay" category for similar reasons as "Sweet Leaf": It's so dumb that it's kinda cool.) My ranking of Sabbath's first six albums looks like this: 1. Vol. 4 2. Paranoid 3. Black Sabbath 4. Sabotage 5. Master of Reality 6. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 17:50
|
I really like `Master Of Reality', plenty of killer tracks, even though I find `Sweet Leaf' a little plodding and repetitive, my least favourite song on the album. Still good, though!
Some poeple seem to have a problem with the production of some of `Master', I noticed some tracks are almost like demos, others have a much fuller sound. I've argued endlessly with a friend about this over the years, saying he can't stand the album because of the sound quality, I say the rougher stuff gives the album it's identity and more of a `stoner rock' sound? But to be honest, you can't go wrong with the majority of the Ozzie Sabbath albums, especially the first 6 or so. The bluesy self-titled debut is one of my favourites! 
|
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 17:56
|
I've always been a little lukewarm towards Master of Reality too. It's my least favorite of their first six albums. But I still like it a good deal. I always skip Sweet Leaf, thought I do love After Forever and Children of the Grave. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:07
|
I prefer Paranoid to Master of Reality and always have. No reason, just do. Children of the Grave and Into The Void are stonkingly good and do stand out though. ------------- What? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:24
I'm a pretty big fan of myself. Ohhhhhhhhhh...you mean the other Master of Reality.  Of their first four, MoR is actually my least favorite. I think their debut, Paranoid and 4 are much better. And I agree with the OP, After Forever seems very out of place on a Black Sabbath record. That song would seem more appropriate on a Neal Morse solo album. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:27
|
I do prefer the rawness of their debut, with the more bluesy and jam feel, even if the guitar solos get kind of repetitive. I just like the whole feel of it, the riffs, the BASS, Ozzy's vocals. It's just awesome and unique for the time. Paranoid was a step forward in composition skills, War Pigs is brilliant. However I'm not too big on Iron Man nor title track. Maybe I prefer other type of riffs. When it comes to Master of Reality, it's not my favourite but with time I began to hear its brilliance. Again, they progress and change, wayyy heavier and darker in tone (I've read somewhere that Tony and Geezer lowered the tuning or something). Bomb riffs, simply that; probably the reason why its held so high for metal fans and rock fans in general. Truly one of the first metal-sounding albums of the time, while Paranoid and the debut still relied on more blues. Anyway, I think that one of Sabbath's best in compositional terms is Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, very elaborated album and its done greatly. Got to admit though that Ozzy's vocals are very whiny here and can turn off listeners. But for me it's up there with the previous three. Vol. 4 is good but wouldn't call it brilliant, it continues the vein of its antecessor and doesn't offer much new.
|
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 10:32
|
Into The Void evokes the Cold War. Fortunately we came to our senses. I wonder if Master Of Reality was played in the Kremlin or Pentagon. Sabbath saved the world with that one. if they didn' get the message with Warpigs then this one must have sunk in.
------------- |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 10:33
Yes, because as we all know, war is a thing of the past and never happens anymore. -------------
|
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 17:59
|
Great album, and the third consecutive 5 star album Sabbath has from me. I don't like it quite as much as the first 2, which really speaks to their greatness. Not much to say, it's everything you want from Sabbath and done well. Vol 4 is where they start to lose it IMO, though it's a good album. The excessive touring, recording and drug use started to take its toll by that point. |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 18:24
|
Probably their most revolutionary in terms of sound. Along with Raw Power (Iggy & The Stooges) and Red (King Crimson), it sounds like it could have been made recently. It also happens to be my second favorite of the "Classic six" (right behind Paranoid). On a related note, here's a review of the album from everyone's favorite hack critic, Robert Christgau: As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch, in which critics redefined GFR as a 1971 good old-fashioned rock and roll band even though I've never met a critic (myself included) who actually played the records, I feel entitled to put this in its place. Grand Funk is like an American white blues band of three years ago--dull. Black Sabbath is English--dull and decadent. I don't care how many rebels and incipient groovies are buying. I don't even care if the band members believe in their own Christian/satanist/liberal murk. This is a dim-witted, amoral exploitation. Rating: C- ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 22 2012 at 18:39
|
I would say Vol 4 is my, well, 4th favorite. Master of Reality is not up there at all on my list. I'm a much bigger fan of their b-side stuff than the staples. My Ozzy years' BS (make of that what you will) ranking: 1 Sabbotage 2. Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath 3. Never Say Die 4. Vol. 4 5. S/T 6. Paranoid 7. Master of Reality 8. Technical Ecstasy I would say the gulf in class between 7 and 8 is much bigger than between 1 and 7. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 23 2012 at 23:10
| Love this album but I definitely like Sabotage a lot more than this. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 25 2012 at 03:16
|
I see MoR as the band progressing beyond their first 2 huge albums; fairly short even by vinyl standards, it contains to me some of Iommi's best work. Sweet Leaf is to me the weakest track on the album & I loved Solitude as soon as I heard it (still do).
Volume 4 built on the foundations set by MoR & in my opinion, still stands up as their masterpiece. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Federico95
Date Posted: October 25 2012 at 04:47
|
Master of Reality is my favourite album from the Ozzy era (along with Sabbath Bloody Sabbath which is a bit more proggy and melodic), but the best overall is Heaven and Hell
------------- 
|
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: October 25 2012 at 11:47
|
Master of Reality is probably their heaviest soundwise concerning the classics. Quite the guitar tone for its time, and the downtuning added an extra doom factor to the overall vibe. Granted, it's short, but still one of the most played out of their albums I own.
Love the speedy break during "Into The Void", like proto-thrash in a way.
|
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: October 26 2012 at 04:23
|
I think the s/t will always be their greatest simply because of the impact it had and how many future styles of metal it influenced. But I really love all the early Sabbath albums, classic band without a doubt. a friend and i have also wondered what would have happened if Sabbath became a psych rock band. They certainly could capture very nice stoned atmospheres with songs like Planet Caravan... |
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: October 27 2012 at 21:19
|
Loved the early BS (Ozzie) years. I think it is a tie for me between Paranoid and Sabotage (love the Writ) for the #1 spot. The rest were very close behind, except for the last couple even though they still had their moments, "Never say die" title track and "You can't Change Me" from Technical Ectasy. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: October 28 2012 at 03:34
|
I never knew so many people didn't like Sweat Leaf, I always considered MOR to be a great album with no weak moments especially not the opener. I love this album it presents Sabbath at their heaviest. I wouldn't say it's their best but I always thought it was better than Vol. 4 which always seemed uneven in sound quality, some tracks sound good but others sound horrible( Cornucopia, Under The Sun). I might be a minority around here but I always liked Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die better than those two as classic as they are. I cant' get enough of that Vol. 4 first minute opener....tiniiiiiiii ti ti ti tiiiiiiiiii wi wiiiiiii ti tininininini < guitar solo  |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 01 2012 at 10:09
|
You don't like Under The Sun? I think it is epicly awesome. It's interesting to me that people consider MOR their heaviest. I think Vol. 4 is far heavier. Maybe "Changes" detracts from that for most people, but not for me.
-------------
|
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 01 2012 at 14:38
|
^ I have to agree that Vol.4 is the heavier album but MOR is a fine album and much improved from Paranoid IMO. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 17:12
|
I find Master Of Reality to be Sabbath's most consistently heavy album, however. there are some songs - "Tomorrow's Dream", "Cornucopia", "Under The Sun", "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", "Hole In The Sky", "Symptom Of The Universe", "Megalomania" - that could give the songs on that album a run for its money in terms of heavy. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 04 2012 at 17:17
Blasphemy!! Cornucopia and Under the Sun are among my absolute faves from that album. I especially adore the convoluted nature of Cornucopia's riff. May just be the most confused in all of rock. Yummy! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: November 05 2012 at 00:09
| Let's see - Master Of Reality..............great album, though I consider it a step down from their previous 2 albums. Real 'metallic' production, but at the same time, a frad thin and tinny. Top tracks - Children of The Grave, Orchid and Into the Void. |
Posted By: BORA
Date Posted: February 10 2013 at 13:08
You may want to be aware that the album had been reissued on CD by some different labels. The sound quality on one of those (bought in Sydney) is extremely muddy and just horrible. There are better copies in circulation and chances are that you and your friend must have heard two different reissues. BTW, I thoroughly enjoy the album.
|
Posted By: geneyesontle
Date Posted: February 11 2013 at 12:04
|
It is a pretty good album. Sweet Leaf, Children of The Grave and Into The Void are CLASSICS. ------------- Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb - Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle |
Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: February 12 2013 at 15:39
|
I actually don't think Master of Reality is their best album. My vote is for Paranoid.
------------- 
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: February 13 2013 at 12:39
Damn it, I just saw your post Dave. I didn't mean they were horrible songs, far from it, I love every minute of every song in their 70's albums. My copy of the album (reissued in 1986) has those two songs I mentioned in a very poor quality. I actually never checked more recent reissues of this album to see if this changed. |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: February 19 2013 at 19:12
|
They peaked with Masters....their first three albums solidified their sound; everything after is too cluttered, too noisy or playing away from their strengths. Vol. 4 is listenable but Never Say Die and especially Technical Ecstasy find the band forcing, not forging, a new sound. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Tristan
Date Posted: February 21 2013 at 17:47
|
I find I like MOR and V4 equally as Paranoid is my favorite.......Fairies Wear Boots is my favorite BS song.. Sweet Leaf and Children of the Grave vs. Wheel of Confusion and Under the Sun
|