Kashmir vs. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part 1)
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Topic: Kashmir vs. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part 1)
Posted By: jude111
Subject: Kashmir vs. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part 1)
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:25
| Not to be a fly in the ointment, but which of the two do you prefer from 1975? :-) |
Replies:
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:27
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Shine On. Kashmir is pretty boring. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:31
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Love both but I prefer Shine On. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:31
Blaspheme!   |
Finnforest wrote:Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:46
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Lol Shine On ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:49
| Like both--voted for Kashmir---love the beat--- |
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:43
| Love both but have to go with PF |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 01:17
| Kashmir (only one of of 2 Zep tracks I would have voted for ahead of SOYCD) |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 01:42
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Two not comparable. I listen more often to Shine on. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 02:00
| Definitely two great tracks, but i'll go with shine.. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 02:02
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Zeppeling have better tracks to fight 'shine on...' that i would vote for. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 02:33
I feel the same way. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 02:45
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Kashmir is good, one of the best LZ songs, but no contest for Shine On You Crazy Diamond. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 03:14
| Shine On. Kashmir tends to be quite a drag for such a length. Nonetheless, I do like it in general; ****. But PF ... *****. Has a lot to do with emotion. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 03:55
Agree. Kashmir puts me to sleep
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Posted By: KeithC
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:05
| Agree. Not really comparable, to my mind. Might as well compare Beethoven and Mozart |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:08
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Kasmir ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:09
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-V). ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: PabstRibbon
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:16
| Any song by Floyd beats anything by Zeppelin IMO |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:26
Nothing like blind devotion. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 06:04
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It's a tie! ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 06:08
Gotta love it. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 06:40
It's about as comparable as "Abacab" and "YYZ" are to "Arrakis" or Magma. Or rather, more comparable. The only relationship between "Kashmir" and "SOYCD" is that they are among the greatest epic prog songs of 1975. However, "Kashmir" didn't compete in the "Best of 1975" poll because Zep is a "prog related" band. I expected SOYCD to win (I voted for it myself), but I was curious how close the vote would be. I thought of doing a "Stairway to Heaven" versus "Echoes" poll - both are from 71, - but it seemed to me that "Echoes" would win by a huge margin. The point being, perhaps proggy tracks from prog-related bands should be included in the year-by-year Best Of polls. :-) |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 06:43
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No amount of polls will change those polls you are talking about so that is wasted effort. On the other hand you can compare these two pieces and you cdan compare Beethoven to Mozart. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:29
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Kashmir. It's among Zeps best tracks, imo.
I only really like the intro and build up in SOYCD. I don't think the song is that remarkable to be honest, and when the sax comes in at the end, it's one of the biggest anti climaxes in prog rock, I can think of. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:34
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I really love both. Choosing one over the other is like choosing between a shrimp cocktail and a beautiful rabbit stew. I'm not saying which is which though... ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: PyramidMeetsTheEye
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:48
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isnt kashimr from led zeppeling and arent led zeppelin an hard rock band -------------  |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:57
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Yes they are a hard rock band. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:06
Led Zeppelin weren't just a hard rock band; they used mellotrons and Moogs and mandolins and 12-string guitars and Indian percussions, and drew from disparate sources like Arabic and Indian music, folk, blues and early r&r. Plant's Tolkien-influenced lyrics could be as insrutable and mystical as anything by Jon Anderson. Page and Jones' approaches were often symphonic. See, for example, "The Rain Song." And Genesis' "Fly On a Windshield" bears more than a passing resemblance to Zep and in particular "Kashmir"s beat and atmosphere (although the Genesis tune came first?), so clearly the progsters were paying attention. |
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:12
Kashmir is the meat stew I think, it's meatier, and the cocktail has to be the delicate Shine On  ------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: spknoevl
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:13
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Two great songs. I love 'em both and refuse to vote. ------------- http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:13
Damn!!! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:27
But rabbit, not cow? I often think of LZ as red meat, really 
------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:31
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Easily Shine On... ------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump...... |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:37
I don't know; I think Plant fancied himself a hobbit. And they're kind of rabbit-like. Sort of. Or perhaps an elf on a white steed, all glistening swords and gleaming arrows, galloping off to fight the hordes at Mordor in the land of the ice and snow. Bare-chested, naturally. (Unlike Jon Anderson, who was in and around the lake. Standing there.) (Or Peter Gabriel, swooning for the royalty, piping his flute.) See? Zeps were prog. |
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:42
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^ Nice, well-said ! - so now we have to ask, what's Hobbit meat like?
------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:46
A bit like chicken, I imagine. (Sorry, couldn't resist |
Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 11:24
| Glory to Kashmir |
Posted By: phrophus
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 14:34
| Shine on you Crazy Diamond for my tastes. |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:28
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How can I vote against a brilliant song from one of my favourite artists of all time, which was covered by another one of my favourite artists of all time?
-------------  
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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:29
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond by light years. Kashmir, while a great tune, is kind of dull and goes on for way too long. The atmosphere and the lyrics is what attracts me to the tune. Jimmy's riff is pretty cool too.
------------- 
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Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:34
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I like both songs but i've gone for Kashmir, mainly because IMO it was the best track they played when I watched them at Knebworth in 1979.
------------- Tony C. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:39
this!
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Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:48
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If by Part 1 you man Parts I-V, Shine on. ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 17:54
| I really love Kashmir, but Shine On may just as well be my favourite song of all. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 20:33
After Yes' Tales came out---Jimmy Page said in an interview in Melody Maker---(I own lot's of vintage Melody Makers) that he wanted to do something artistic and complex like Yes did with Tales---then Kashmir and that whole album came out by Zep and it was their version of arty Zep---it may not be prog in the purist sense--but it's not just blues oriented hard rock.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 21:15
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What a hilarous turn of events. Here we have a blues-based band Zeppelin composing a prog song, "Kashmir", and Pink Floyd, a psych-prog band, composing a blues-based song, "Shine On". And yet everyone votes for the blues-based song! I'll go with "Kashmir" here. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 21:50
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 23:47
Come again? You might as well call it a blues-based composition with synthesizers.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 00:06
I don't believe I stuttered. It is a blues-based song, particularly Part I. Whether there are synthesizers in it has no bearing on the fundamental composition. Or Gilmour's blues riffs, for that matter. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 00:10
You mean you are not happy with the riffs and synths?
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 00:20
No, I really like the composition. A great modification of the blues. There are many blues-based tunes from the 60s that had synthesizers, so it's not novel in that sense. I was merely amused at the irony of the voting. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:52
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Kashmir.
-------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 07:43
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 09:24
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Led Zeppelin may be my favorite band of all time. But the first half of the Shine On suite is a much better piece of music than Kashmir and it's not even close. Floyd at their peak power.
Kashmir is monstrously over-rated.
No Quarter on the other hand would have been hard. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 09:40
Agree with all that Jay. No Quarter, Rain Song, Stairway, Ten Years Gone, Achilles.....all would have been harder contests for me.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 09:48
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^Kashmir is way better than all those. Well...maybe not the powerhouse that is...Achilles Last Stand! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 10:03
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Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 10:11
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Instinct told me to go for Kashmir, but that was my anti-Pink Floyd bias speaking. Not that I hate Pink Floyd, but I like them significantly less than most people (same with Led Zeppelin but much less severe). I prefer Led Zeppelin as a band and Kashmir is pretty great, but I have to agree that it's overlong. Shine on Pt 1 is one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs, so it wins. It sounds like it was performed by anesthetists (like almost everything by them), but it's a pleasant anesthesia. |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 10:56
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Can't choose. Both are monumental.
------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 17:18
I believe I read somewhere, or heard on the radio, that either Plant or Page (don't remember who) once complained about Led Zeppelin being labeled "Hard Rock" or "Heavy", or whatever word was used back then, given than more than half of their songs were acoustic... now I haven't counted how many of their songs are acoustic or not, so it's not me saying that is true. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 17:59
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Kashmir is staggeringly dull. It should have been two and a half minutes, tops. I don't know why people like it so much. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: otto pankrock
Date Posted: April 21 2012 at 18:00
| Shine On. Finnforest is correct, Kashmir is boring! |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 21 2012 at 20:49
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Was it Ellington or Satchmo who said, when asked to explain jazz, said, "There's some people that, if they don't know, you can't tell them." In that spirit: "Kashmir" is not boring or staggeringly dull. You don't get it, that's all. Nothing wrong with that. I don't get zeuhl. I didn't get Genesis till about, oh, I don't know, 8 years a go. Then I was hooked. I still don't get why Jethro Tull's rated so highly. To each his/her own. Variety's the spice of life and all that. It's a great thing. From Wikipedia: All four members of Led Zeppelin have agreed that "Kashmir" is one of their best musical achievements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-11" rel="nofollow - [12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones_%28musician%29" rel="nofollow - John Paul Jones suggested that it showcases all of the elements that made up the Led Zeppelin sound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-complete-0" rel="nofollow - [1] Plant has stated that "Kashmir" is the "definitive Led Zeppelin song", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-12" rel="nofollow - [13] and that it "was one of my favourite [Led] Zeppelin tracks because it possessed all the latent energy and power that wasn't heavy metal. It was something else. It was the pride of Led Zeppelin." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-Welch-5" rel="nofollow - [6] During a television interview in January 2008, he also named "Kashmir" as his first choice of all Led Zeppelin songs that he would perform, commenting "I'm most proud of that one". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-13" rel="nofollow - [14] Page has indicated he thinks that the song is one of the band's best compositions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_%28song%29#cite_note-Schulps-14" rel="nofollow - [15] Led Zeppelin expert Dave Lewis describes "Kashmir" as:
The song is listed highly in a number of professional music rankings:
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 21 2012 at 20:56
Judging by your ID icon, you must be a Future Sound of London fan. LIFEFORMS is an amazing album. Can never get enough of tracks like "Papua New Guinea" and "Cascade." Been listening to them a lot lately, and Herrmann & Kleine too :-) |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 23 2012 at 11:22
Yeah, I love FSOL. Lifeforms is one my favourite albums of all time.  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: NickHall
Date Posted: April 29 2012 at 17:16
| I like crazy diamond as a piece of prog pop, and I dont really like Zeppelin, but Kashmir is their finest hour. |
Posted By: Guzzman
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 12:08
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There's music that you can compare and there's music you can't compare - these two are in the second category.
------------- "We've got to get in to get out" |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 17:52
| ^ You can't compare in general. I agree. But if you take in account one factor or more, the one(s) that is/are most important to you ... . |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 19:20
| Kashmir bores me. I agree with Henry that I stop paying attention after a few minutes. Shine On, however, always blows me away. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 30 2012 at 19:38
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 02:44
| ^ Well, here is the cookie: the Zeps are a prog-related band. I don't think tamijo would consider how prog this track or that track sounds. I think it's artist-genre oriented. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 02:55
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 03:15
Doh! S#$t, how could I forget it? Maybe I thought it wasn't quite prog? ... Uh, screw it. But, like I said, those are tamijo's criteria, and it's his poll, none of which are mine.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 01 2012 at 04:25
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Posted By: The-Winkler
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 03:56
| Shine on by a mile |
Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: May 27 2012 at 01:01
| Crazy Diamond is a nice pop song (and I do like it), but Kashmir is a really clever piece of work. |
Posted By: Glucose
Date Posted: June 20 2012 at 13:50
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Both but Shine on is about Syd and it gives a message to this song.
------------- Under the rocks and stones, there is water underground 
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