Your Country's Greatest Foe
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Topic: Your Country's Greatest Foe
Posted By: Epignosis
Subject: Your Country's Greatest Foe
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 16:09
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http://news.yahoo.com/george-washington-voted-britains-greatest-enemy-commander-153037718.html" rel="nofollow - This article inspired me to open this historical thread: What individual person- not group nor country- was your nation's greatest foe? Your choice can come from any time period since your nation was established, but that individual must have engaged your country personally and militarily in some manner. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Replies:
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 16:22
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After careful thinking, I would have to say no individual outsider has been as much a foe as some of our natives.
------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 16:29
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The only greatest foe I can think of engages my country neither personally nor militarily. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 16:40
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Easy. Hitler and Stalin.
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 17:49
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Posting before someone says Obama. ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 17:50
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Dick Cheney
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:02
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Hard to pick. Woodrow Wilson, John Maynard Keynes, TR, FDR, Alexander Hamilton, maybe John Marshall. There are a lot, actually. -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:17
I think we can all agree that there were and are internal people whose actions we detest, but I am asking about a militaristic force, not a philosophical or political one. We can have those discussions in the political or Libertarian threads, I think. I wanted this to be a more historical topic. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Epignosis wrote:Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:34
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Being a yankee severely limits my choices here. There's just not that many that have attacked us. I guess I'll have to admit to being ambivalent... between king George and Hitler.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:35
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Oh come on guys. Hitler did not personally attack you. Neither did King George. I'm asking you to consider warriors and generals. Dig a little deeper into history if you must. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:43
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How can someone personally attack a country? You mean someone who was also a warrior? In that case probably some Peruvian guy... I'm not going back to the time of the Incas... And who would be the US' greatest foe under those terms Robert? Who has personally attacked the US? ------------- 
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:50
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^ To me "personally" sounds like a direct attack against a country in speech. On the topic: I can't choose between Hitler and Napoleon. Napoleon did quite a mess in my country with Barclay-de-Tolly & Co. The babka burned Moscow, for God's sake. On the other hand even if Hitler and Stalin had a Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact c. 1939 (which explains why in Russia they would say WWII started in 1941, whereas in the States they would say 1939), I wouldn't have been born if that Nazi officer didn't spare my grandmother and her family.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:55
What I mean is someone who is there in person, attacking the forces of your country.
I don't know the greatest, but examples could be Charles Cornwallis, Benedict Arnold, George Prévost, Robert E. Lee, etc. Note that the requirements do not say someone actually attacked a country- just one that engaged your forces during a particular war. George Washington never went to the UK to take over London, but he was voted Britain's greatest enemy. I hope that clears things up. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 18:58
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OBAMER ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 19:36
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Richard Nixon and/or Dick Cheney. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 19:49
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 19:59
 Relax Robert, tomorrow you go back to your students...  -------------
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 20:01
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If domestic terror counts I suppose Timothy McVeigh's bombing would rank right up there... ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: iamathousandapples
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 20:11
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Group? Religious Zealots. Especially domestic zealots. A specific person? Er... I'm gonna go with Bin Laden, if only for making a large wild goose chase for throwing large amounts of money away at ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/thamazingbender" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 20:14
| General Richard Montgomery and Colonel Benedict Arnold, I suppose. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 20:37
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I am my own worst enemy. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 20:52
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hmmm Ok its finally sinking in. Attack has many meanings and one common usage is for inflammatory or derogatory speech. I think we can clarify by saying you want to hear who we think our countries greatest military foe is. is that about right? Honestly our greatest foes are always the politicians and philosophers who incite minds against us. The men of action never mean as much in the grand scheme. I'm no war buff so I have no great insights here. I'm sure there's many names and many subtleties I won't know about. When I think of such things However I always think of Rommel. He was really kicking our asses in the desert until we broke his supply line and ran his war engine out of fuel. I think with a steady supply he would have out maneuvered us in that theatre of war. ------------- This space intentionally left blank |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:02
The premise is boring and not very interesting in the USA's case. Military discussions are ho-hum. Leading a military attack against the USA or aiding the enemy in war time? Good luck with that. Undermining the moral fabric of the society from the inside? Far more destructive. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:06
We discuss the latter all the time. Notice for the last damn time I didn't say the attack had to be against the US. It could be against a US army somewhere else. Please read carefully, or else YOU may be the greatest enemy we have. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:40
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Stupidity and ignorance are greater enemies than any person or group. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 21:52
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Probably the Iroquois War Chiefs who attacked us during the French and Indian Wars and Pontiac's rebellion, causing terror in the colonies. That is just a smart ass answer. I would actually say the most deadly enemy of the Untied States was Khrushchev in 1963. He wasn't really, but in terms of perception and power to make that perception count. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:22
I gave historical names. I suppose I reject the premise:
"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged against provisions against danger, real or pretended from abroad." - James Madison
You're looking for enemies in the wrong place. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:28
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Probably some president. I'm not sure which one.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:17
You may, at least partially, agree with my list from the page before. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:38
| America's greatest living foe is probably Roger Ailes. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:25
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:50
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Vidkun Quisling, he sold his country to the invading German army, to become the primeminister, (he only become a puppet for the stationed German officer Josef Terboven
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 01:20
| Mel Gibson. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 03:00
yeah he have said some shocking things recently 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 03:56
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By the standards you ask Rob....I don't know? We're pretty lucky in that regard. I guess the British Generals from the Revolution. How about Benedict Arnold? Maybe not quite right but can you think of something more historically reviled in America? His name = traitor so that's a pretty big foe |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:07
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William the Conquerer
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:09
Ah now that's a good one! Yeah that seems like, historically and in terms of the grand scale, a better answer than George Washington. |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:14
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The French had been at war with ALL its neighbours (including the Swiss!), but if we're talking about attackers... - the Vikings, which pillaged and ravaged the whole West coast before claiming and taking the Normandy; - the Saracens, which pillaged the South coast, but were courteous enough not to claim or take a region; - the English... From the Middle Age to the 19th, from the Plantagenets to Queen Victoria, there had been countless battles, wars, colonial competitions... Joan of Arc, the Seven Years War, the Fachoda incident... We could make a whole library just with these issues! - Bismarck and Kaiser Willhem the First. And I know what I'm talking about: I have some Alsatians ancestors who fleed from their native region just to remain French citizens. Then, Willhem the Second, who thought he could match his father and his Prime minister (but no one could match Bismarck). Then, Adolf Hitler - but he had been the enemy of half Europe (Poland, Yugoslavia, Russia, Netherlands, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, etc...) - Mickey Mouse. f**k this rodent, the pinguin from Zig and Puce was much more cuter. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:23
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For the UK, it's hard to say.
Maybe.. Oswald Mosely Margarat Thatcher Adolf Hitler (and the members of our royal family who admired and supported him) Maybe Simon Cowell. Who knows? There sure are a lot of arseholes out there, who for one reason or another have wanted to turn our nation to souless mush. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:57
| I really wasn't kidding about Roger Ailes. Do people here know who he is? He has done some serious f**king damage to America over the years. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:04
Yeah but that doesn't seem to be what Rob is going for. I'd agree with that and other people's comments, I sincerely believe many internal, non military people have done more damage to our country than anyone else. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:08
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I noticed Rob seemed to be trying to steer the forum towards a particular answer and got frustrated when he wasn't given it, but screw that. We're just answering the question how we feel. Ailes is some bad news. This isn't a joke about Fox News either, look into the guy as deeply as you can, he is f**king poison. He's hard to learn about though, he's deliberately mysterious and cultivates a false image. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:22
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Well people are frustrating. It is a tough question, especially for the US where we'd not had issues of invasion and etc Nixon is a lamesauce answer, but I do believe Cheney should be on the list. As you said, not a joke about Bush or the GOP...I think he was a frightening human being. What he may have done to the country is bad, (we all seem to have forgotten about that secret force squad or w/e it was that answered directly to him) but what he probably wanted if he could've had his way.....*shivers* Yeah I couldn't find much about Ailes, the fact he heads that misinformation network is bad enough. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:23
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By-Tor ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:28
| Man Biden is a useless VP. Cheney may be evil but at least he occasionally achieved something. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:32
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Yeah it's a 180 for sure, Biden does nothing and Cheney was more or less the President I may have to rescind my comment, Dick and Rumy both came from the Nixon days, as did that f**k Karl Rove. I know all politicians need a certain mindset but it is unnerving how all these super paranoid, iron fisted guys came from Nixon :O |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 06:47
| Being from Israel, I'm working on a list, i think i'll be done sometimes next week. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:41
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron" rel="nofollow - Baron Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim (Swedish pronunciation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Swedish_and_Norwegian" rel="nofollow - [ˈkɑːrl ˈɡɵsˌtɑf ˈeːmil ˈmanːərˌheim] ) (4 June 1867 – 27 January 1951) was the military leader of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Finland" rel="nofollow - Whites in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Civil_War" rel="nofollow - Finnish Civil War , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander-in-Chief" rel="nofollow - Commander-in-Chief of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland" rel="nofollow - Finland 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Defence_Forces" rel="nofollow - Defence Forces during http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II" rel="nofollow - World War II , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_of_Finland" rel="nofollow - Marshal of Finland , and a Finnish statesman. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:44
I do. It's something internal for sure. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:13
By all means, do so- just do it in the Political or Libertarian threads please. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:16
Mannerheim? Finland's greatest hero? You might as well insult Kekkonen to top it off, and get deported! |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:20
 Kekkonen was cool k |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 16 2012 at 16:32
Ah that's right...you're a dirty commie. Of course Kekkonen was cool k, he was in bed with the KGB It all makes sense now. |
Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 02:15
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This all depends on what you consider a country. In question of a land area with set borders, I believe anyone sharing a border with Russia/Soviet Union has/had to be on their toes all the time. This has nothing to do with the Russian individuals. All of them that I know are top people, friendly and caring. When thinking about the biggest enemy to our national safety... Well, in the recent years it used to be George W. Bush and his ilk who made Europe into a less safe place. Oh how Europeans hated him! At the moment my country's biggest enemy comes from within, and that's the populist right wing political undertow so strong in Europe nowadays, taking us back to the national socialist ideas of the 30's. More philosophically speaking, our biggest foe is the general decline of values, ignorance of cultural values, sophistication, history, fine arts etc.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/osmotapioraihala/sets" rel="nofollow - Composer - Click to listen to my works! |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 02:40
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My country's greatest foe? Since I'm from Croatia, I guess many will think it's some other South-Slavic Balkan country, perhaps Serbia or Bosnia? Actually, we had quite a lot (still do) shared history of cultural, artistic and national-uprising exchange in the past couple of hundred years. But I won't deny there were/are quarrels (even occasional wars). Our tensions are our rivalry. Historically, greatest foe would be Hungary. We were under Hungarian rule in way or another for almost thousand years. Frankly, I'm wondering why my language and culture aren't much more Hungarian-influenced. ------------- |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 03:07
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Tony Abbott
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:09
It may not be so surprising: after all, from the Middle Age to the 19th century, big kingdoms/empires never really tried to repress "regional" or minority linguages. In France, it wasn't until the late 19th century that the Republic decides to make school free, lay and mandatory - with lessons only told in French. So, even in Britanny, Alsatia, French Flanders... the linguage remained "unfrenchized". Rivalry, rivalry... One of my friends is croatian (born in Bosnia) and she seems to be ready to seize a gun when only referencing the very word "Serbia".  |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:12
I was thinking the same thing - Washington is admired in the UK as "a good guy" hence the reason why I suspect he topped the poll, the American War of Independance was something that happened "over there" and was not an attack on British soil as such. The Normans were the last people to sucessfully invade Britian and eventhough their rule only lasted about 100 years, their legacy lasted much longer in our culture and language. ------------- What? |
Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:28
And still does today... Just think of all the town names especially on the eastern parts of your island: Grimsby, Whitby, Boston, Sunderland, Inverness, Skegness, Scalby, York (former Jurvik), Helmsdale, Musselburgh etc., that's ancient Scandinavian all over the place. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/osmotapioraihala/sets" rel="nofollow - Composer - Click to listen to my works! |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:34
Yes, it seems some people have a threshold of tolerance so low they can't even hear a word, let along talk to a person of a certain nationality.  Fortunately, those are exceptions rather than the rule - the majority of people that I know are normal and don't care about those things. If nothing else, most people are sick and tired of the same old story. It's a long overdue to move on. ------------- |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:44
Er, I think Dean was referencing to the Normans from Normandy, France... (Yeah, I know that this region was invaded by the Vikings, but still...) |
Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 04:53
You are right, of course, but Normandy got its name from Norrmän (= Northern Men) as well. So in a way we are both right.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/osmotapioraihala/sets" rel="nofollow - Composer - Click to listen to my works! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:06
------------- What? |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:07
I'll reference you back to my post of William the Conquerer and just say you started it.  ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:13
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:15
I think William's biggest legacy is that it contributed to a rivalry between England and france that has lasted almost a thousand years now. As the King of England was also the Duke of Normandy, he would owe fealty to the French king, a rather embarassing position for a monarch to be in. Also, much of our nobility owned great swaths of land in northern France and considered it their ancestral homes with the result being tension between our two nations and the Hundred Years War, and any number of batles and wars faught over the centeries since until Napoleon's defeat. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:18
Those names are from numerous Viking invasions and not Norman. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:20
Except that the Normans brought French to our language. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 05:31
------------- What? |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 06:09
| Ooh, what about Gordon Gekko. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 09:27
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EASY ONE  ------------- |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 10:36
| During the time of the German Democratic Repubic me and a few mates visited Berlin and actually peed over a small ditch onto East German territory, so actually it might have been us. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 17 2012 at 11:03
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^No that was the Stasi.
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