Ian Anderson disses prog
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Topic: Ian Anderson disses prog
Posted By: bucka001
Subject: Ian Anderson disses prog
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 16:02
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Genesis, Yes, ELP, and Gentle Giant had their heads up their arses according to the Jethro Tull frontman...
http://www.progrocks.co.uk/progrocks/Exclusive-Video/" rel="nofollow - http://www.progrocks.co.uk/progrocks/Exclusive-Video/ ------------- jc |
Replies:
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 16:07
Ah Ian, you cheerful chap - and this from the man responsible for the lyrics in Aqualung  ------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 16:12
I love the way he whispered. 
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 17:00
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Not the first time he's made those kinds of comments. He seems to cling to the fact that TAAB was a "spoof" concept album (and often conveniently forgets A Passion Play in the process) as some kind of proof that JT were never a "real" prog band. It's not the concepts that made it prog, Ian, it's the way you wrote, arranged and played the tunes! The lady doth protest too much, methinks. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 17:10
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Not surprised. As far as I recall, he never cared for the prog banner is any way shape or form.
Shame being he is quite good at it. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:15
Yeah, he's actually full of sh*t. Think about TAAB and when it came out in '71. Prog had not really gotten into the full blown excesses that it would be criticized for yet. It's more likely (as others on a different forum have pointed out) that if TAAB was indeed a "spoof" (uh huh... right), it was probably taking potshots at something like Tommy.
Look at the prog heavies circa '71. Genesis released Nursery Cryme but I doubt IA was very familiar with it as that album made little to no impact in Britain at the time (and even if he was, there's nothing conceptual or bombastic on NC). Van der Graaf Generator were more popular than Genesis at the time (VdGG appeared on the cover of Melody Maker as 'Britain's Most Fashionable Band' in May of '71 -- a big deal at the time to appear on MM's cover) so Anderson would have been aware of them, but VdGG weren't doing concept albums either. Yes had The Yes Album & Fragile out but this was when the group were putting out great albums with little or no fat, before any shastric scriptures invaded the Yes landscape. Crimson had the sidelong 'Lizard' out and it occupied all of side 2, but Ian didn't mention them in his little potshot. Gentle Giant in '71? Not much to tie in with the idea of concept albums from them. ELP had Tarkus out as well as the Pictures at an Exhibition album, but I doubt that TAAB's supposed 'spoofery' was influenced by those albums. Just Ian Anderson larking about, probably, and with a bit of revisionist history (which, of course, casts JT in a favorable light and everyone else as being in their dust). ------------- jc |
The Hemulen wrote:Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:29
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Anyone who plays a flute and dresses in tights is prog, sorry Ian.
------------- 
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Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:30
| Actually, the reason why he made TAAB into a concept album was because people kept on calling Aqualung a concept album, even though he denied it. So he decided to create a concept album. When he mentions that TAAB was a "spoof" album, I think he was refering to the way the song was written and not how the story evolves. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:35
Well, I haven't seen the video interview in a couple of days (the link at the beginning of this thread) but I thought he called TAAB a spoof and made it sound like that album was taking the piss out of groups like Genesis, Yes, GG, and ELP. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:46
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What an a****le. I'm not gonna hold the idiot he's become against the witty, talented guy he used to be. Saw Jethro Tull a couple of years ago, and it was the lamest, most uninspired concert I've been to in ages. Ian's lost his voice, his good taste (+ hair). The sh*tty Enya synths, metal drums and hair metal guitar managed to ruin every single classic he ever wrote. The flute was ok. He's also ten years late dissing pretentious proggers. |
Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:53
That is only the second half. If you have spotift, I'd suggest that you listen to this: spotify:track:0PuFR3mv7f1lJqJHymiDyj" rel="nofollow - Jethro Tull – Interview With Jethro Tull Listen to as much as you get the time to, they get back to the topic regarding the concept album once in a while.
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 10:56
Please guys.....Ian Anderson is just having a laugh. Get a SOH ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:17
Yeah, seriously. Do any of you people have any concept of a joke?  He like tried to make it obvious as possible he was joking, too.
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:26
| There's a road stretched out between us like a ribbon on the high plain. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:33
Yeah, he is (as I mentioned) probably just larking about, but he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He's taken potshots at prog bands before and, even though it's a bit tongue in cheek, one gets the feeling he kind of feels that way. But, it's like, "hey, since I'm being sort of jokey about it, you can't really get mad at me; I'm not totally serious here..."
A few issues ago, in Classic Rock Presents Prog, he stated, "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous."
I don't even totally disagree with him. I just think it's rich coming from him. A dude in tights, with one leg elevated and foot upon knee, and playing the flute ain't exactly a whole lot more badass than a guy in a sunflower mask...
------------- jc |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:36
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Well considering Jethro Tull recently headlined the High Voltage festivals Prog stage i'd like to think he was joking. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:48
I know but That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore. Neither is Ian. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:51
Indeed - that is Anderson all over. indeed, any self respecting JT fan would know all of this either from history, or by actually listening to many of the witty, self deprecating lyrics he sang. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 11:58
EXACTLY! For Christ's sake, he's being interviewed in front of a huge "Prog Rocks" sign by prog critics (who were, by the way, fawning all over Yes and ELP whilst slamming "Passion Play."). He's just having some fun at the expense of the audience, totally in character!! I would have been surprised if he said anything different! Maybe IA should square off against Rick Wakeman's "Grumpy Old Rick" TV routine? It would be rather hilarious!
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:01
See my post above (below...ha ha!) and, if you get a chance, let me know what your vibe is about his quote in Classic Rock, which I give below:
Yeah, he is (as I mentioned) probably just larking about, but he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He's taken potshots at prog bands before and, even though it's a bit tongue in cheek, one gets the feeling he kind of feels that way. But, it's like, "hey, since I'm being sort of jokey about it, you can't really get mad at me; I'm not totally serious here..."
A few issues ago, in Classic Rock Presents Prog, he stated, "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous."
I don't even totally disagree with him. I just think it's rich coming from him. A dude in tights, with one leg elevated and foot upon knee, and playing the flute ain't exactly a whole lot more badass than a guy in a sunflower mask... ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:04
To be fair, he's not really dissing all of prog (and he is just having a laugh), but I feel he doesn't have any enthusiasm for Yes, Genesis, and ELP... and fair enough.
But it doesn't mean he's anti-prog in general as he did guest-edit an issue of Classic Rock Presents Prog.
I know of a lot of famous musicians who dislike Genesis, Yes, and ELP, but are on the record as being major fans of the darker prog bands with more bite, such as King Crimson and VdGG (i.e. the bands it's "cool" to like) ------------- jc |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:07
These cats all know one another, most of 'em are gentlemen farmers in Devon, UK near Exeter. Ian's acoustic guitars are made by Brit luthier Andy Manson, and Martin Barre's electrics by Andy's brother Hugh Manson. Hugh also builds the basses for John Paul Jones, is the guitar tech for Steve Howe, etc. I think his wisecracks were as much towards those guys as anybody! Lighten up, folks. http://www.musesmuse.com/pressrelease.20101006.1286367193.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.musesmuse.com/pressrelease.20101006.1286367193.html
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:28
Oh yeah? Well, I don't fancy cats. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:29
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I reckon there are some members of this site that agree with what he says and are not joking ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:16
------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:19
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Ian said that before playing Thick As A Brick when I saw Jethro Tull in March. But he said they were also up their own arse and that ''it was actually quite nice up there!''
------------- ''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.'' - Albert Camus |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:22
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The comments from Ian Andersson has been totally misunderstood and we have got two pages out of it. Should I laugh or cry ? Let's start a poll on that ! Come on. Let's save the world instead of having a debate on something someone has not meant. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:28
Misunderstood? He called Yes and ELP spaghetti noodlers who could beat an idea to death, and said that Gabe prancing around in a flower outfit was verging on ridiculous. I perfectly understood what he meant (and actually agree with him for the most part). He might have been poking fun, but I think he does feel that way about those bands. I, for one, am not offended! And I don't think anyone misunderstands him.
Save the world? In a Prog Forum? I'd rather discuss Pawn Hearts vs. The Lamb
By the way, re: the poll. I vote that you cry. Or laugh... waitaminute... can I get a do-over? ------------- jc |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:36
Haw! Even Wakeman agrees with IA, this fantastic interview is a must-read (Wakeman compares Yes to Spinal Tap) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1Ss5rspNu" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1Ss5rspNu The curry that Wakeman ate onstage during the "Tales" concert was chicken vindaloo, my own favorite!! Let's face it....we LOVE much of that music, but a great deal of it was pompous, over-the-top theatrics!! That is a good part of its charm for me....the elaborate sets, massive tours with dozens of lorries, and lengthy rock opuses played for hours, with nary a wrong note to be heard!! You have to see Lady Ga-Ga to get anywhere close to the '70's era in terms of onstage extravagance! Ian's having fun, he'd probably bust a gut at this thread!
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:49
Post of the year, Charles  We really, really shouldn't take ourselves so seriously! ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:58
I agree, and I feel the same way when people have gotten ticked off at John Lydon and Jello Biafra taking shots at Yes, Floyd, etc, and calling them boring. It ain't the end of the world! ------------- jc |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:23
| The end of the world is near if we don't stop saving the world. After all; there has not been a nuclear war since ProgArchives saw the light in 2004. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:30
I think, in its own small way, that ProgArchives (and maybe even ProggressiveEars) has contributed to the absence of nuclear war...
...just go with me on this! ------------- jc |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:45
Why so serious?
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:49
Sure, Rick Wakeman knows how to laugh at himself. He's cool (unlike Ian). As bucka I'm not a fan of the of the over the top stuff he's making fun of, and I didn't misunderstand him. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 15:04
Also, people should understand that Rick can laugh about this now, decades after the fact. At the time, Tales was one of the reasons he left the group. And Jon Anderson sure wasn't laughing. He was having to defend Tales to critics and everyone else; he wasn't thrilled that the had to defend it to someone in the group (I remember this from Dan Hedge's biography).
So, Wakey is lighthearted about it now, but it was a bigger issue then. ------------- jc |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 16:37
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Ian Anderson also has a remarkable sense of self-deprecation.....I think he skewers HIMSELF as much as Yes or ELP! You have to read between the lines with this fellow, he's a brilliant satirist (think of the lyrics to TAAB). After all, "A Passion Play" was roundly panned by the rock press when it came out, and the live show (which I missed) was a complicated bunch of sets, movie clips and other things that were about as "proggy" as TFTO!! He really can't throw any stones, and I don't think he is, he's looking to stir things up! Here's a Melody Maker review from 1973: http://www.tullpress.com/mm21jul73.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.tullpress.com/mm21jul73.htm Of all the proggers out there, Anderson might be the one I'd most like to tip a pint with!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 21:13
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FYI, Mike Rutherford more or less called people who were trying to keep prog alive into the 80s stupid.
Fripp pronounced the rock business shallow and excessive as early as 1974, even before punk could commence its effigy burning business. An observation with which I largely agree, by the way.
Michael Dunford said in the 90s that maybe the band should have moved to shorter songs earlier.
The Shulmans always wanted another Kite, if you believe what Gary Green and John Weathers have to say.
John Wetton is effusive in his praise for the era that he was part of KC but says it "promised too much" (implying that it was an unsustainable concept ultimately)
Face it, none of these guys would want to stand up for prog (and imo, it is not a very progressive idea to stand up for a genre), so it's good to see Ian Anderson can be funny about it in his usual way.
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Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 21:55
I take it that you missed the Yes vs Genesis poll, then. Yikes!! Ian Anderson is one of my earliest (and biggest) heros, but I always have a laugh when he picks on prog. I don't agree with him, but I must say ... I'm much more into the 'darker' prog bands, but I do love Genesis. Give me Henry Cow over Yes, anyday ... or Jethro Tull over Yes for that matter! Personally, I think Anderson likes to have a laugh about most things and so do I. Lifes too short to take such matters too seriously. Perhaps that's what Ian's really digging at ... the bands and fans who take it all too seriously. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 22:25
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This is one of the funniest threads...(of this week).....I urinated in my pants with laughter due to what some thought he said in the video......You obviously do not listen to music. -------------   
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:27
| Funny old chap.The 'Heads up their arses' comment accurately describes a lot of the prog rock fraternity at the time (1971-1972). Hardly controversial really. It will probably annoy a few though that he includes Gentle Giant in his little list. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:29
My apologies for starting a thread that has forced you to take your trousers to the cleaners!  Please do enlighten us on what he really said in the video.Is it one thing for Ian (a non-punk) to Sl*g prog, and another for Johnny Rotten, Jello Biafra, and other punks to do the same? It seems to me that, in the past, a lot of people have gotten pissed about punks taking the piss out of Yes, ELP, etc, but it's not as bad when Ian does it. Is this true? ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:31
See an earlier posting of mine in this thread re: prog in '71, when TAAB was made. Prog's excesses weren't in full swing yet. Topographic, The Lamb, etc, weren't until much later. ------------- jc |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:36
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:41
The momentum was there, but the ridiculousness wasn't. The Yes Album is worlds away from Tales From Topographic Oceans... In a recent issue of Classic Rock Presents Prog, many illuminaries discuss that year ('71) and agree that it was the pinnacle of the genre, before the ambition got the best of many involved. ------------- jc |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:47
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 01:54
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What I was referring to directly was his comment (joking or not) that TAAB was a spoof of 'heads up their arses' concept-album bands like Genesis, Yes, and ELP. He may have been joking (although the vibe I get is that he really doesn't care for those bands, which is fine by me), but as TAAB came out in '71 it's apparent that the album wasn't a spoof of those bands... more likely a spoof (if it really was one and not just revisionist history on his part) of Tommy because the prog bands of the time had yet to make their over-the-top concept albums yet. They were still pretty trimmed and streamlined albums compared to what was to come (The Lamb, Topographic, Works, etc, were later). This being the case (him saying that TAAB was a reaction to "those" prog bands), I don't think he was pretty accurate. ------------- jc |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:01
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:08
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Richard, I appreciate your posts and the intelligence behind them... One thing that interests me (and Lord knows why!) is the reactions of people to this thread: some are ticked off at Ian's sl*g.ing of prog, others defend him as just a guy having a laugh and implying that people are being overly sensitive. As I stated, the vibe I get is that he really doesn't care for the bands he mentions and has a bit of fun with it. Is this less offensive to the people who say it shouldn't be taken so seriously than comments by noted punk rockers (or other non-prog musicians) who have historically knocked the genre? No one's really addressed that here although I've thrown that out there in a couple posts. What's the difference (if there is any) between Ian knocking the genre, and other non-proggers doing it (I'm considering, for the sake of argument, Ian as a progger here, as opposed to, say, John Lydon).
------------- jc |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:52
TAAB was indeed a parody of the concept of concept album but based on criticism of the 'concept' of Aqualung. There were no prog concept albums prior to or in 1971, unless you count Tommy or, arguably, Sgt Peppers. As for the other part of your post, certainly Anderson poking fun to a prog audience and at people he knows well is a lot more harmless than burning effigies of Keith Emerson. The implication is that people are prepared to laugh off Ian Anderson's comments partly because he is funny and partly because he was part of the movement and he can make of it what he likes. I don't know if that's what you've implied, but people would probably not laugh off criticism of prog from a friend as easily as they would if it's Anderson. Speaking for myself, even if he was dead serious about it, I think what he said is not without merit.
 There's basically no perfect or ideal musical genre. Prog gets noodly and bloated, metal gets VERY repetitive, some eras of classical music can be rather stately, so on and so forth. P.S: I have the Madison Square Garden performance DVD and in the album notes, Anderson refers to himself as gesticulating rather wildly or something to that effect, don't remember his exact words. So, he is quite capable of looking in the mirror and laughing at his own reflection. He is not trying to have his cake and eat it too, in other words.
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Posted By: Katusnya
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 03:21
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Ian for president!!! :)))))) FUNNY!!! ------------- I love Music! |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 04:12
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Some injection of whatever: Some prog rock, some of the best albums no less, was overbloated and well over the top. That Wakeman and Anderson sees the funny sides of certain excesses just proves that they are sound, sane persons. Nothing more and nothing less. I have read Rick Wakeman's biography/tales from the Yes years and this book is one of the most funny book you can ever read. And yes, I still love the well over the top loony excess albums from that time. But I also sees the funny side of them and the scene. For example when Genesis and their managment was panicking one night in London before going on stage because they could not find their vocalist (Gabriel) anywhere. They only found an exotic vegetable on the stage........ which was their vocalist. The concert was on. I think everyone of a sound mind find that funny. I see no contradictions in terms when I both love the Gabriel era Genesis & find their excesses hilarious funny. And this is how I see Ian Anderson's attitudes too. Let's both laugh and praise the music created at that time. We are big enough to do that. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 04:51
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Don't take it too seriously. And I remember Ian Anderson liking Gentle Giant. I searched it back on the internet and here it is: http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/Ian_Anderson_interview_regarding_Gentle_Giant" rel="nofollow - http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/Ian_Anderson_interview_regarding_Gentle_Giant |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 05:11
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The history of The Marquee Club, where all of these bands "cut their teeth," is revealing. Ian's playing a prank on us, trust me! They were as thick as thieves, and I'm sure they are sharing his laugh at our expense!
http://www.themarqueeclub.net/history-the-wardour-st-days-1964-1988" rel="nofollow - http://www.themarqueeclub.net/history-the-wardour-st-days-1964-1988 "In February 1970, the club went through an important achievement: the opening of the bar since finally got a license for serving alcohol. During the first years of the new decade the club also saw the birth of progressive music, hosting the new talent of legendary bands such as Ten Years After, Procol Harum, Taste, Family, the Nice, http://www.themarqueeclub.net/yes" rel="nofollow - - Led Zeppelin , http://www.themarqueeclub.net/jethro-tull" rel="nofollow - - King Crimson , http://www.themarqueeclub.net/genesis" rel="nofollow - Many of these bands would reach international audiences during the early 70's, changing their residencies at the Marquee for the big arenas around the world. At the time, London venues like the Rainbow Theatre and the Hammersmith Odeon would look more appropiate for the demand of wider audiences." |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 05:46
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It's funny when he says "not a concept album - bunch of songs.". But I think it all shows a distress over being associated with the prog movement. Because no genre has been generalized so much as prog. Especially in criticism, people want to dismiss the whole thing with one word, such as pretentious. And all bands being bunched together as if they were the same thing. And those who want to critize it only wants to concentrate on the negative aspects. If someone says "you have to admit - a lot of prog was bad"...well, what genre doesn't have a lot of bad music? Rock? Pop? Techno? But for some reason prog is a genre were every detail has to be perfect in order to be accepted.
I think Ian Anderson doesn't want to be limited to and thought of as one of the prog giants with all the generalized associations that come with it, so he says that the other bands had their heads up their arse while Jethro Tull only did a concept album just for fun.
It's not especially funny, just very dry in my opinion. That generalized image of prog, bands that are too serious for their own good, is just very old, and showing self-distance, being able to criticize aspects of prog in retrospect isn't especially admirable in this day. Everyone knows what associations the word prog brings with it, the narrowminded image of it is what is prevailing. That's why it's not pericularly fun when Anderson buys into that by saying the other prog giants have their heads up their arses. It's just that old image of pretentious proggers being brought up again. It's very old.
The general view of prog deserves to be seen for what it is instead of being slandered all the time.
But I wasn't pissed at what he said, because it mostly shows some distress over being part of something that people have judgemental and preconceived ideas about. ------------- http://www.lastfm.se/user/wilmon91" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 07:03
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Loving this thread so far. It's great to watch how some people without a sense of humour try to convince others that there's no such thing. Keep it up! Best thread in ages. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 07:56
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I don't know. I guess I still haven't forgiven him the 70-80 euros I
paid for for something sounding like a third rate tribute band. A good
tribute band would atleast sound inspired. So seeing him so self-congratulating and pleased with himself ticked me off. But not as much as npjnpj's kind of comments. Of course everyone notices the jokeish way he says it, but not everyone shares your dull sense of humour. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 08:39
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 09:45
Yeah, I get what you're saying. But, on the flip of that (and this is the vibe from what some are saying on a different forum) it's actually more annoying coming from Ian because - while you expect it from critics, punks, hipper-than-thou music heads - it's different coming from a prog hero (to some). Here's a (pretty f*ck'd up!!!) analogy... It's like being a left-wing liberal, totally tuned in to the show Mystery Science Theater 3000 (believing that it mirrors your sensibilities) and finding out that your hero/host Mike Nelson is a stone cold conservative republican. You expect right wing commentators to criticize your view, but you don't expect it from one of 'your' guys. *whew* where on earth did I come up with that??
A lot of bands knew each other because they'd play fests together and bump into each other at the Blue Boar Motorway on the way home from gigs. But if you ever interview them or read interviews of a lot of them, the times were very insular. Bands saw each other as rivals even though they'd be cordial and maybe even hang out (like at the drinking establishments La Chasse, The Ship (been there), and The Speakeasy). Doesn't mean they all loved each other's music.
I do get what you've been saying, that Ian's having a laugh and a bit of fun with it... but you can do that and still actually mean what you say. When he says Yes and ELP could take an idea and noodle it into the ground, I believe he's sincere and isn't a fan of those bands (but he could have a pint with them and yuck it up). So, to me, it's no different to when punks or hip critics have a go at prog. I just wonder if the same people who are saying 'lighten up!' (such as yourself, and fair enough!) would say 'lighten up, it's okay' when it's critics/punks knocking their fave prog bands in the same way. In my mind, they're hypocritical if they don't take the same attitude. If they do say 'its okay when punks do it too,' then they're consistent. ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 09:48
Thanks, I try. You should see the other thread I started on 'What is prog?'
(that's a joke, btw) ------------- jc |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 10:00
| You really need to get over it. ;) |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 10:03
|
I'll do my best ------------- jc |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 10:47
I am familiar with that point of view but in this case, it doesn't resonate with me because I am more of a favourite artists guy than favourite genres. I tend to drift towards rock and jazz based music than other styles because I have my tastes and preferences but I am interested in artists who excelled in these styles rather than the style by itself. So, I am quite comfortable with the notion of Ian Anderson bashing prog, especially in a tongue in cheek vein. I believe progress and creativity in music comes more from musicians who badly wanted change and thought they could do better than whatever was out there rather than those who couldn't find a damn thing wrong about the way things were. It follows that such people may not always play to the gallery, eh? If at all he is attempting to establish some heightened sense of self worth through this, that too wouldn't surprise me because that's pretty normal for extraordinarily talented, eccentric musicians. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 11:23
| ITT: Jokes are srs bsns. |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 11:43
| Prog IS funny. How anyone could not laugh at Gabriel's costumes, Keith's knife throwing and Organ abuse (not to mention Greg's fur coats and Persian rugs), Yes' elaborate Topographic Oceans state sets, is beyond me. And I love the music of each of those bands unreservedly. Ian always cracks me up with his prog comments. Whether he feels that way about the bands in question is irrelevant. Still, nothing is more funny than people who don't like prog (like the "punks") making fun of it. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 12:23
If I piss my pants it better be because something was funny......If not I better go see a doctor.
 . You obviously believe that Tull back in the day, recorded Aqualung, TAAB as straight up progressive rock. I think there are interviews that date way back where Ian did not think their music was prog at all, back then they all felt it was simply just rock music....and maybe even pop music.
Only in the past 20 yrs or so have people been so hard fast to label it progrock and now the internet has done the same thing, where we all "believe" that's what it was 40yrs ago.
Ian has every right to poke fun at his albums and other bands of that period. If you have the album with the 12 page newspaper there is a "review" of the album where its referred to as a "fine disc and a good example of the pop scene.." I don't recall the exact wording as I am at work and the album is at home.....I have the original LP fold out newspaper.
I don't listen to Gentle Giant but I would guess if you found some very old original interviews/reviews the words "progressive rock" may not be there......or not how we think about it today. Ian is pulling your leg....go with it, plus he's old and comes off as serious.
-------------
|
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 12:35
|
Ian probably took TAAB far more seriously than he admits today ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 12:38
I never thought of Tull as prog rock, even back in the 70's. It's only when I started looking at ProgArchives and Progressiveears that I became aware that many fans lumped them in with prog. I think you're right, though, that no bands thought of themselves as 'prog' back then. They were just making music they liked and hoped that others liked it too. Peter Hammill says that the phrase in the late 60's (and maybe very early 70's) was 'underground' rather than 'progressive' (which came later). ------------- jc |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:45
|
I finally got a chance to watch the video. To me it seemed obvious that IA was joking when he mentioned other bands. However, from this, and the spoken portions of the Aqualung live album, it appears that Ian is a bit confused about the definitions of prog rock and concept albums, as he appears to frequently confuse the two.
In his defense, he often claims to be very old. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:38
|
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 18:33
Thanks, good insight! Sadly, I wasn't in London when all of this was coming together, but I've read many accounts & interviews, and the various band members used to live together, jam together, get high together, chase girls together etc. as do musicians anywhere! Peter Banks' interview is remarkable for his recollections of those days (including when he shared a flat with Bob Fripp! I often thought I heard Fripp's influence in Banks' guitar, or perhaps vice-versa?) http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes" rel="nofollow - http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes Even the musicians themselves used to groan about the over-the-top compositions! Regarding TFTO, Chris Squire once said "That tended to go on a bit, didn't it?" The interview with Wakeman is hilarious, where he breaks from recording TFTO to play darts with Black Sabbath in another studio!! No doubt, the lengthy noodling-bit isn't Ian's cup of tea. I always admired Tull's compositions for the strength & brevity of the individual songs, knit into a larger work. However, I remain convinced that he's tweaking us all on purpose.
|
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 20:47
I read that Banks interview a while back, I should re-read it (is that the one where he says that VdGG and Yes shared the bill quite a bit in the old days?). I also have his autobiog and remember it as being a riveting read. He does talk about sharing a flat with Fripp and playing him the Flash album. That Wakeman bit reminds me of talking to David Jackson (sax man w/VdGG) and him telling me that, when they were recording Godbluff at Rockfield in '75, Motorhead were in the next studio and he ended up recording a jam with them! So, somewhere there's a tape of Lemmy and the boys jamming with Jaxon on sax. Jaxon also remembered playing darts with Andy Fairweather-Low during some downtime in the Godbluff sessions! ------------- jc |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 20:58
Yeah, when Rick was blowing off the TFTO recording, he sat in on Sabbath's "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" recording! "Keyboardist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Wakeman" rel="nofollow - Rick Wakeman of the band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Yes (who was recording http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_from_Topographic_Oceans" rel="nofollow - Tales from Topographic Oceans with Yes in the next studio) was brought in as a session player, appearing on "Sabbra Cadabra". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_Bloody_Sabbath#cite_note-3" rel="nofollow - [4] " |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:17
|
I suppose if this were 1972, this might have mattered. To someone. I'm not sure who. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:42
 like a thread------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:44
Didn't catch his last line in that video...what..."waiting to be sued by those splendid chaps"...he couldn't have made it any more obvious that he was trolling. |
Posted By: Billy Pilgrim
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 00:00
| I don't really care, the guy makes good enough music. Why do we have to care about our musicians personalities or what they say? Shouldn't affect the music in the slightest, not like were all gonna be going to a barbecue with him anytime soon. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 01:30
I remember when the allegations of Christian Vander being a facist, nazi sympathizer started up, and some fans posting that they were going to get rid of their whole Magma/Vander collections which they'd had for years. These were people posting on a Magma blog who'd been major fans for ages. But to your point... who here has said that they won't listen to IA's music anymore because of this? I haven't seen anyone post that...
------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 01:53
Well, you seem to care. Your own review of this album, from your best rock albums list, states, "And it is very sly: according to Ian Anderson, Thick as a Brick was a
send-up of progressive rock of the time, holding up a cynical mirror to Tull's
pompous rock counterparts (and the band itself)." So, having put that out there for public consumption on your blog, I'm sure you'll agree that it's at least fair game for discussion on a prog forum where we just discuss stuff for fun and to kill time anyway. I'm not sure you've gone through the whole thread (I probably wouldn't have if I joined the party late) but no matter what side of the fence folks are on (i.e. either IA's a jerk for putting down these other bands, or he's just larking about so folks should chill) it's been established that TAAB wasn't a putdown of prog at the time... that's revisionist on IA's part. At any rate, here's an interview with IA from the time (1972, with Circus magazine) in which he discusses the idea behind TAAB. This is him in his own words, at the time, discussing the real intent behind the album (a reaction to critics' reactions to Aqualung, among other things), not how he's rewritten things now, 40 yrs later. http://www.tullpress.com/capr72.htm" rel="nofollow -
------------- jc |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 02:29
| More prog musicians should diss prog |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 02:39
Most do, and trip over each other as they try and run away from the genre label. ------------- jc |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:13
How strange is that. So what is your opinion on prog? If prog is just silly or lame , why do you listen to it?
Maybe music is just a big joke.
How can a prog musician have a passion for music while at the same time have no respect for it? Is it some sort of sickness? "I'm doing silly prog music, I can't help it".
It reminds me of the sort of commercial entertainment artists who are like clowns and see their own music as a sort of joke that has no meaning whatsoever. A swedish artist comes to mind, Markoolio.
So everyone should diss prog. Oh how cool. ------------- http://www.lastfm.se/user/wilmon91" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:26
|
It is great to have a passion for something. But if you cannot take 5 steps back and see the whole picture + laugh a bit at yourself and find yourself and what you are doing a bit silly, you are in serious trouble. Worst of all; you will alienate people around you. It is my personal belief that when I stop laughing at myself, I am in serious problems. May that time not come because the mental asylums here are not that great. Rick Wakeman's hilarious biography and Ian Anderson's statements just gives me greater respect for both persons, prog rock and bands like Yes, Jethro Tull and the other prog rock greats.
|
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:40
I'm sorry I don't listen to the artists I like because someone on a website or a doosh magazine reviewer has labeled them "prog". I don't come to this website on a daily basis because its progarchives. I come here because the artists people discuss and review is the kind of music I like......not because its prog...my God, that has nothing to do with it.
BTW....that's the basis for the album Thick As A Brick.......you go ahead and call it what you like. Its Rock, Metal, Pop, Prog......whatever floats your boat. On this forum Jethro Tull is very popular.....so I guess its Pop Music.......but you would diss that label I suppose. -------------
|
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:57
Having self distance is a different thing. But slandering ones own work and others is more of a nervous behaviour showing lack of confidence and a need for praise. Like a child who makes a drawing and calling it ugly just so everyone else can say "no it's fine".
Of course self distance and humility are two good personal characteristics. But it doesn't mean that you have to disparage your own work. It's just childish. ------------- http://www.lastfm.se/user/wilmon91" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 10:10
The idea was to show more disrespect to prog, which means bands who are related to that genre. I found the idea strange. I don't think genres are relevant either, but the point is that every musician should stand for their own music.
And one should be careful in doing an evaluation of a whole genre , it will likely only produce stereotypical and untrue ideas. ------------- http://www.lastfm.se/user/wilmon91" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 10:43
|
So the best thing for you to do is have a whip-round to hire a hitman to bump off IA. Problem solved. His own bleedin' fault. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 10:51
No, it just shows he is a carrier of the British Humour Disease. I myself is a carrier of this disease too. It is a disease the scientists is working hard to find a cure against this very offensive disease which has caused so much damage in other countries. For example in your neigbouring country where this disease was banned from entering the country back in 1977-78. Terrible. |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 11:14
|
I’ve no problem with Anderson taking the mickey out of prog, but the “non mea culpa” sub-text to his comments is pretty rich. Anyone who thinks the world really needs a multi-song suite dedicated to his thoughts on organised religion obviously had a fairly severe bout of Cranium Up Posterior syndrome himself. And his claim that Thick as a Brick was intended as a send-up of concept albums seems like after the fact rationalisation. The genre didn’t really come into vogue - and subsequently get a bad name - until a year or two later with Dark Side of the Moon, Tales from Topographic Oceans, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway etc. In fact the success of TAAB might have kicked off the whole concept album onslaught. So actually it’s all YOUR fault Ian! (put that in your flute and smoke it). An Anderson vs. Wakeman face-off in the pages of Classic Rock sounds like an excellent idea. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 13:15
 Best comment so far IMO, and spot on. And done with a fair amount of humor, so everyone should be happy!!------------- jc |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 14:38
|
I think its all just banter tbh 30+ years ago Anderson accused ELP of just playing the same 20 songs every night.
Carl Palmer's response was 'true but we did at least change the order!'
priceless
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 17:06
Hardly making fun of progressive music, and the spoof, originally, was strictly because a lot of the press and bands doing long cuts at the time, thought they were better and more and this and that ... and of course, PA bought it all lock stock barrell and bullet!
But it also tells you the English humor that Ian has that we are not adjusting to, and the local Brits today are not capable to enjoy since their judges are now shutting out all satires, especially Lady Gaga ... which tells you that the Brits are tired of Satire and fun and humor ... it's becoming very American in that sense!
Can you imagine telling Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, Bennet, Hall, and all those turkeys to shut up? ... might as well burn up Oxford and Cambridge ... and a whole generation ... but no ... we're so small minded that we take offense when someone is speaking the truth ... and Ian is basically telling you there is no difference between them ... maybe some clever lyrics and a clever sound effect or chord change here and there ... but I seriously doubt that PA would accept the idea of "spoof" on PA ... as progressive. That would mean changing their definition and .... appease to Mosh's Gods! Not to mention Ian's ... ! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 17:07
Better yet ... on "Behind the Music" with Metalica ... you have sold out ... for fame! ...
"Yeah! ... Every Night!" ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 05:17
Whose music exactly? Ian Anderson just expressed himself through his music. Who exactly gives listeners or media any right to club bands together and expect them to adhere to these hundreds of thousands of confusing and pointless categories? We do it for convenience and that's ok but it's not a religion onto itself, it's not meant to be taken seriously and to expect eccentric artists not to step on shoes as soft as touch me nots is just a bit too much. And prog rock is certainly not metal where you could say the genre identity transcends music and becomes a whole culture of its own. You can't even accuse Anderson of cashing in on a bandwagon and then laughing at it when it's gone stale because he was one of the pioneers, one of the first movers.
|
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 05:21
There is no hint of disparagement of his own work in at least that clip. He has denied that Aqualung is a concept album and said TAAB is just a spoof of a concept album and not really a concept album proper. He didn't say that that makes it a terrible album, you can have excellent/amazing spoof, after all. He has poked fun at Yes, ELP etc but it doesn't necessarily follow he is ridiculing himself.
|
Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 07:37
|
It's just that JT was not a consistently essential prog rock band, it's just that JT visited the genre in many albums (from their golde nera) and incorporated lots of prog elements in other albums that were more folk-hard-rock with abundant artsy arrangements.
I remember that Ian said many times that TAAB was NOT a concept album but a piss at the concept of concept album, which is not news at all. APP, War Child, TOTRR were, obviously, concept albums. Minstrel kind of was, too, but mostly, a "how i am feeling now" sort of album. There is a concept of celebration, concern and retorspective on the idea of rural life in teh string of Wood, Horses and Stormwatch albums. Ian is obviously a very conceptual man and a very coceptual artist... but TAAB was jus ta spoof. (Even then, JT made what is perhaps teh best prog rock concept album ever... how genius is that when you make a joke about a thing and by doing that you take that thing to its maximum level?).
In other interviews, he praised GG, so... mostly, this is him making fun of prog, himself and the music business in general. Sense of humor, the same he utilizes in TAAB, Passion Play, interviews, and of course, on stage. This is Ian Anderson, remember?
I found this very funny and very amusing, just like any other guy should find it...
|
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 10:44
From that link: "That's why so much of my stage act is really a parody of what a rock star is supposed to do. I'm just a straightforward bloke, and I'd hate to have to take the whole thing too solemnly onstage. Unless you're ready to laugh at yourself, there's the danger of falling into believing that you're a rock star. And so much of that is just baloney, you know. I try to remain logical about it and just take it as so much good fun. I'd like people to see the act humorously in part, the same way I look at it." I think he pretty much tells you right here that TAAB was not a "serious" concept album. By the way, there were concept albums long before TAAB or Aqualung. Check out The Pretty Things "S.F. Sorrow" album from 1968. Not exactly prog, but certainly proto prog and certainly a concept album. One of my biggest issues with some prog bands is that they do take themselves too seriously. I find many aspects of what 70's prog bands did hilarious in retrospect (see my previous post in this thread). Doesn't mean I don't think the music was also brilliant. I just think you can't take any genre too seriously. There is plenty of over the top stuff in rock music in general that seems quite funny in retrospect. |
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 11:32
See below.
Well, it's a very confused thread so maybe we should define what we are talking about first  .What Anderssons said isn't the main focus (my version and interpretation of it is on page 3). My focus shifted to the reactions in this thread, and the obviously differing experiences of what was funny. No one have misunderstood the fact that he was joking. Secondly, to me saying that Genesis, ELP etc had their heads up their arses is funny only in it's spontaneity and vulgarity, but there is no actual point being made, no actual truth being uncovered. So the level of fun can be discussed. To say that "he is right", that it was extremely funny and to say "every prog artist should diss prog" ....well, then it becomes confusing. It's just strange to have a wish for artists to talk about prog bands in a ridiculing way, as if it automatically would be funny. Why is it fun to ridicule prog? It has already been done a lot through the years in the media. No one could joke about it in a new way , everything has been said. ------------- http://www.lastfm.se/user/wilmon91" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 11:50
What he didn't say at the time was that it was a spoof on other bands (which he does do now).
At any rate, he wasn't talking about TAAB when he uttered the quote you put forth. He was reacting to a fan saying this: "Ian Anderson has to be the greatest genius ever to live on the face of the earth... Let this man lead us out of our present darkness and into the light of a new world."
But the groups that IA takes potshots at aren't The Pretty Things or The Who (Tommy was also a concept album that pre-dated TAAB). It's Genesis, Gentle Giant and Yes. None of them had concept albums out when TAAB was made. He may have been just having a laugh (and I'm certainly not offended by him making fun of those bands) but his revisionist history (even if it's done with tongue firmly planted in cheek) has others taking it at face value. Witness The Dark Elf's review, where (through no fault of his own) he mentions that TAAB was a reaction to pompous prog bands of the time. 'Prog' didn't even exist as a genre yet (folks weren't thinking in those terms in '71) and the pompous concept album stuff (the stuff that has been held up by detractors of the genre) didn't come until two or three years later (The Lamb, Topographic, Works, etc).
------------- jc |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 12:37
Well, the part about the other bands is true. He didn't mention them back then, but he certainly was doing a piss take on the concept album and on the fact that critics had called Aqualung a concept album. There are other interviews from that time that verify this. The rest is just splitting hairs because the people who get the joke (us prog fans) find it funny, and the people who don't get the joke were not going to explore those bands whether Ian make his humorous comments or not. |