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CD format abandoned in 2012?

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Topic: CD format abandoned in 2012?
Posted By: darkshade
Subject: CD format abandoned in 2012?
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:27
http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=46980_0_2_0_C" rel="nofollow - http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=46980_0_2_0_C

Quote
You read it well. The major labels plan to abandon the CD-format by the end of 2012 (or even earlier) and replace it with download/stream only releases via iTunes and related music services. The only CD-formats that will be left over will be the limited edition ones, which will of course not be available for every artist. The distribution model for these remaining CD releases would be primarily Amazon which is already the biggest CD retailer worldwide anyhow.

3 weeks ago we heard it for the first time and since then we have tried getting some feedback from EMI, Universal and Sony. All declined to comment.

The news doesn't come as a surprise to those who have been working in the business. In a piece that was published in a q&a with the Alfa Matrix people back in June 2011 in the 1st issue of "Matrix Revelations", our chief editor Bernard Van Isacker said the following when asked if a CD would still exist in 5 years: "Yes, but in a different format. Normal CDs will no longer be available because they don't offer enough value, limited editions on the other hand will remain available and in demand for quite a few more years. I for one buy only limited editions because of the added value they offer: a nice design, extra bonus gadgets, etc. The album as we know it now however will be dead within 5 years, if it isn't even sooner. I predict that downloads will have replaced the CD album within the next 2 years. I don't see that as something negative, it just has run its course, let's leave the space to limited editions (including vinyl runs for bigger acts) and downloads instead."

It's a move that makes completely sense. CD's cost money, even when they don't sell because there is stock storage to be paid; a label also pays money to distributors when CDs get returned to the labels when not sold and so on. In short, abandoning the CD-format will make it possible to just focus on the release and the marketing of it and no longer focus on the distribution (since aggregators will do the work as far as dispatching the releases to services worldwide) and - expensive - stock maintenance. In the long run it will most surely mean the end for many music shops worldwide that only stock and sell CD releases. In the UK for instance HMV has problems paying the labels already and more will follow. It makes the distribution of CDs no longer worth it.

Also Amazon will benefit from this as it will surely become the one and only player when it comes to distribution of the remaining CD productions from labels. Packaged next to regular album downloads via its own Amazon MP3 service it will offer a complimentary service.

The next monument to fall? That will be printed magazines as people will want to consume their information online where they also read most of the news.

What are your feelings? is it a move that you like or not?

Update: We were approached by several people working with major labels, who indeed re-confirm that plans do exist to give up the CD. We keep on trying to get an official confirmation, but it seems that the matter is very controversial, especially after Side-Line brought out the story


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm




Replies:
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:31
2012 is the year where I stop buying music.

I have enough to last me a lifetime anyway.

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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:34
As long as they provide .wav or .flac files. I'm not going to pay for lossy crap.

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:38
Completely agree.

My problem is, during the next 5 years when all the new music you've purchased / downloaded is on a hard drive that crashes / gets lost / destroyed, then what?


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:39
You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.

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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:45
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.

What if, hypothetically, the internet fails? (well I guess there would be more to worry about than just your music collection), but still.

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I honestly feel like something could happen in the next 20 years where people are going to wish they had that hard copy of music because all the internet is down or programs on your computer are not working, like how iTunes may run with "cloud", meaning you could only listen to your music if you're connected to the internet.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:51
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.

What if, hypothetically, the internet fails? (well I guess there would be more to worry about than just your music collection), but still.

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I honestly feel like something could happen in the next 20 years where people are going to wish they had that hard copy of music because all the internet is down or programs on your computer are not working, like how iTunes may run with "cloud", meaning you could only listen to your music if you're connected to the internet.
I'm with you on this.  I'm not a techy and really don't understand this Cloud-thing, but it is the new most amazing thing and apparently between your iPads and your iPhones and your iComputers you will be able to access anything, everywhere on the Cloud.    Beats me what prevents this Cloud from being hacked or deleted or temporarily down for maintenance or down due to an electrical storm or sun spots or from being unaccessible because you are camping in the middle of nowhere or in my case driving in the middle of the most technology based city in the state of Michigan but not able to get a signal because there is too much electronic equipment with magnets running blocking any signals from actually being received.

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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:53
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.



Theft / flood / fire / scratch / etc... Wink


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:56
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.



Theft / flood / fire / scratch / etc... Wink


LOL

All jokes aside, that is beyond the scope of this topic. Those are problems with any tangible item.

I'm more worried about scratches, than theft / flood / fire combined.

My worry is dropping the case and it breaks Shocked





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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:02
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.



Theft / flood / fire / scratch / etc... Wink


But of course you rip and copy all your cds onto 3 different hard disks anyway no? Geek

Actually I rarely listen to my CDs, only when I sit down to just listen and not do anything else.
My self-made mp3 media library is a much better jukebox then staring at a couple of meters of CDs before finding what I want to hear.

As to the end of the CD, I guess it's quite likely, also for us proggers, a lot of new bands only distribute their music via a marvelous site like bandcamp.

I don't care. If proggers want a CD, CDs will be provided. Vinyl would die too no?




Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:12
I think that the worst part about it for me is that I still enjoy going to record stores a/k/a CD stores and browsing through CD bins and picking things out based on album cover, or being familiar with a band, or looking at song lengths and deciding it is something that I would like, and then interacting with the store owner.  It is one of my more enjoyable forms of social entertainment. LOL 
 
I have backed all of my CDs up to my hard drive and do mostly listen either on my computer or my iPod, so it probably won't have a huge effect on me.  At this point I do still listen to CDs in my car or when I am at home playing my stereo system, although I did finally enter the 21st Century by purchasing a stereo system with an iPod port and have been using that more. 
 
Because I buy so much music I am generally browsing the used bins and at my local stores can purchase used CDs for between $4 and $8 a CD, which is far more affordable than downloading an album for 99 cents a song.  This kind of supplements my new CD purchases which are unfortunately far more expensive but usually the only way to get most of the music found within the halls of Prog Archives.


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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:17
If this all went down, it would mean purchasing music online through iTunes or Amazon would give you the same quality files as a torrent site (not advocating, just saying). For now, it doesn't look like these sites are going to offer lossless files any time soon. I don't want to hear somewhat lesser quality sound than the artist intended.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:26
I can barely enjoy CDs because the small size (talking about the cover), but if this is true, artist might aswell stop using covers to their albums.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:30
Could it be, that people have lost interest in the "album" format?

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:37
Actually, the only good I could see is that the artists do not have to worry about filling up a CD, as opposed to the old problem of making sure you could fit your music on a vinyl.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:39
Oh hell no, the indie folks and hipsters and real music fans will keep physical releases alive.


for one welcome our new iTunes overlords will keep buying CDs (and maybe even vinyl) as long as I can, and will resort to buying used if by any chance even the indie labels stop releasing physical albums.



I'm not happy at all to see that them big labels trying to get Amazon to monopolize the CD/vinyl market.


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Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:42
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Could it be, that people have lost interest in the "album" format?

Good question, and I'm not really sure, but digital music files are alot more convinient, I can take my iPod pretty much anywhere, also it's alot easier to find those rare albums, When you go into a record store there is almost a 100% chance that they have, lets say... Dark Side of the Moon for instance. However, the chances that you will find Art Zoyd there are quite slim.

So maybe people are not tired of the album format, they just found something more suiting. I like the digital format for those reasons, I don't think I would've heard even 50% of the prog bands I have, if it wasn't for iTunes. But in the end, the albums is way too important for me, they are an unexchangeable part of music for me, and I think it's going to take alot more time than 2-5 years for CDs to stop being in demand.


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:42
Well if the major labels stop producing Cd's they won't see any more of my money. never paid for a download, never will.
 
Hopefully the independants will continue to produce them or it may have to be vinyl.


Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:44
I'm also not pleased at all about this.  I too use my computer for most of my listening right now, but one of my big goals for the next 10-15 years was to get myself a totally amazing sound system with which I'd play all my CDs, old and new...with the lack of new, sure I'd still have all the stuff I already have, but as others have said, I don't want to have to pay for mp3 downloads in low quality sound.  Maybe if enough people still cling to CDs (pleasepleaseplease) then the record labels will lose a ton of money in this move and decide to stick with the physical product. 

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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:46
Originally posted by Atoms Atoms wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Could it be, that people have lost interest in the "album" format?

Good question, and I'm not really sure, but digital music files are alot more convinient, I can take my iPod pretty much anywhere, also it's alot easier to find those rare albums, When you go into a record store there is almost a 100% chance that they have, lets say... Dark Side of the Moon for instance. However, the chances that you will find Art Zoyd there are quite slim.

So maybe people are not tired of the album format, they just found something more suiting. I like the digital format for those reasons, I don't think I would've heard even 50% of the prog bands I have, if it wasn't for iTunes. But in the end, the albums is way too important for me, they are an unexchangeable part of music for me, and I think it's going to take alot more time than 2-5 years for CDs to stop being in demand.


Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily have a problem with iTunes or Amazon, especially for the rare case of me wanting only a couple of songs by an artist I don't really care about, but like a couple of songs. Even then, I do not like to buy digital music for the reasons I stated earlier.

Amazon has basically any album you can think of, that would most likely be nearly impossible to find at a record store.
But they still let you buy physical CDs.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:48
I like holding something tangible. Plus as others have stated, a hard copy that won't randomly nuke itself has its merits.

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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:50
Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

I'm also not pleased at all about this.  I too use my computer for most of my listening right now, but one of my big goals for the next 10-15 years was to get myself a totally amazing sound system with which I'd play all my CDs, old and new...with the lack of new, sure I'd still have all the stuff I already have, but as others have said, I don't want to have to pay for mp3 downloads in low quality sound.  Maybe if enough people still cling to CDs (pleasepleaseplease) then the record labels will lose a ton of money in this move and decide to stick with the physical product. 


I think the article in the OP was concerning major labels doing away with CDs than smaller labels, like Inside Out for example.

One problem is that I imagine most record shops survive on those major labels' sales. Another problem is some of our favorite artists may be on major labels, even if they are prog or whatever. Or labels like Columbia which sell mainstream music, but also have jazz artists on their label. I wonder how jazz albums would be affected...


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:56
I also wonder if the large classical labels (DG, Decca, EMI, even Sony Classical) will make the jump...that too would be pretty upsetting.  

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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:00
Not going to happen nearly that soon

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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:04
It is probably going to get to a point where the only way to listen to music will be to subscribe to a monthly or yearly service where you have unlimited access to everything ever recorded where the suppliers pay fees to the labels for the right to provide access to their music. 

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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:05
Yea, I would prefer the Spotify mdoel to the iTunes model. Cuz then you dont have to worry about losing your music.

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:11
Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

I also wonder if the large classical labels (DG, Decca, EMI, even Sony Classical) will make the jump...that too would be pretty upsetting.  

Classical music fans (I include myself in all of this) are less "song-oriented" and are usually sort of collectionists of legendary releases and performances and they won't suffer to download only "part" of, say, a symphony, plus the booklets usually are actually useful instead of just photos of the bands in rock albums, so I think it will take longer to kill the classical music cd.

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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:22
Yeah, I figured that would be the case.  Though some sites (ArkivMusic, for example) are offering some albums as mp3 downloads now.  I love the liner notes which usually come with classical music releases (the Stravinsky set I just got was particularly disappointing, as it was 22 discs with no info about the performances on any of them, etc). 

Plus...some of the sets would just be flat-out impractical to make available as downloads (the Complete *insert composer* stuff, for best example, usually being close to 100 discs per set).  LOL


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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:28
New albums need to contain liner notes, that would make it more worth it to buy a CD. Some old jazz albums used to contain liner notes in the sleeves.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:28
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

New albums need to contain liner notes, that would make it more worth it to buy a CD. Some old jazz albums used to contain liner notes in the sleeves.


By "liner notes" are you specifically referring to the kind of ponderous drivel you'd often find on those aforementioned jazz LPs or do you mean booklets in general? The vast majority of CD releases these days at least go the effort of a booklet with lyrics/artwork/etc.

Also, I'm not sure liner notes are really going to do much for the record buying public these days. Let's face it, CDs have largely been the preserve of the older generations and the genuine music collectors. It probably makes perfect financial sense for major labels to do a pretty limited run of physical copies for new releases as itunes, spotify, amazon mp3 store and the like have become the norm for an awful lot of people.

Small, independent and specialist labels will almost certainly continue releasing on CD and vinyl for the forseeable future because they're not pursuing that same casual market. I can't see specialist prog labels abandoning CDs any time soon.


Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:34
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

New albums need to contain liner notes, that would make it more worth it to buy a CD. Some old jazz albums used to contain liner notes in the sleeves.

The liner notes on old jazz albums are terrible, though. The only one I can think of that I actually like Black Saint since it's Mingus yelling about critics instead of some random person masturbating into his mouth about how good the album is.

Anyway, people still release things on cassette, CDs aren't going away any time soon for people who really need to hold a piece of plastic.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:39
Originally posted by The Hemulen The Hemulen wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

New albums need to contain liner notes, that would make it more worth it to buy a CD. Some old jazz albums used to contain liner notes in the sleeves.


By "liner notes" are you specifically referring to the kind of ponderous drivel you'd often find on those aforementioned jazz LPs or do you mean booklets in general? The vast majority of CD releases these days at least go the effort of a booklet with lyrics/artwork/etc.

Also, I'm not sure liner notes are really going to do much for the record buying public these days. Let's face it, CDs have largely been the preserve of the older generations and the genuine music collectors. It probably makes perfect financial sense for major labels to do a pretty limited run of physical copies for new releases as itunes, spotify, amazon mp3 store and the like have become the norm for an awful lot of people.

Small, independent and specialist labels will almost certainly continue releasing on CD and vinyl for the forseeable future because they're not pursuing that same casual market. I can't see specialist prog labels abandoning CDs any time soon.


By liner notes, I mean the artist, or "leader" of the band, talk a little about the making of the album, or some back story to a song, etc.. At that point, in this day and age, a bonus DVD or something would be more appropriate with studio footage, etc..

A limited pressing of new releases is a good idea. It gets the people who want the album to get it as soon as possible, or it sells out. Kind of like how it used to be in the 60s and 70s right? (for those who know). After that, you'd have to order it online.

Someone on another board made a good point on this topic. The record industry is not concerned about people who buy 1 or 2 songs online, since that's not where the money is at. They are concerned about album buyers, like us. This makes me believe that the CD format will not disappear as quickly as the article states.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:42
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

The record industry is not concerned about people who buy 1 or 2 songs online, since that's not where the money is at.

Yes, it is.

Good point about the leaders, though. I don't think people care that much (and the modern releases with that sort of thing typically aren't very interesting either), but it would be something.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:50
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

The record industry is not concerned about people who buy 1 or 2 songs online, since that's not where the money is at.

Yes, it is.

Good point about the leaders, though. I don't think people care that much (and the modern releases with that sort of thing typically aren't very interesting either), but it would be something.


I should have went into more detail about that (about the singles buyers), but I have no time now; maybe tonight I'll explain. You are right, since they market the mainstream stuff to those people, especially since there's more of them than album buyers.

As I said, I'll go into detail later.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Warthur
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 23:50
Could this turn into a boon for smaller labels? I can foresee the circumstances going like this:

Major labels abandon CDs -> Brick and mortar stores realise that devoting themselves to mainstream CD sales is a loser's game, and turn to independent labels to acquire stock, reasoning that they can survive by catering to niche/connoisseur markets instead -> Independent labels suddenly find it easier to get their CDs into stores where previously major label releases crowded them out.

The upshot of this would be a market where mainstream music is sold on a song by song basis on the internet, whilst CDs/albums are the purview of particular musical scenes (the indie/hipster crowd, the metal crowd, classical fans, jazz fans, us). When you want to acquire the hit song you just heard on the radio, you hit up Google, when you want to discover new music from outside of your comfort zone you stroll down to the CD store and use the listening booths to check out artists you wouldn't normally hear on the radio.

I could live with that.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 00:01
Yeah, the LP format was successfully eradicated in the early '80's, so the CD format will be just a successfully eradicated and supplanted in 2012. 

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 00:12
Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Could this turn into a boon for smaller labels? I can foresee the circumstances going like this:
Major labels abandon CDs -> Brick and mortar stores realise that devoting themselves to mainstream CD sales is a loser's game, and turn to independent labels to acquire stock, reasoning that they can survive by catering to niche/connoisseur markets instead -> Independent labels suddenly find it easier to get their CDs into stores where previously major label releases crowded them out.
The upshot of this would be a market where mainstream music is sold on a song by song basis on the internet, whilst CDs/albums are the purview of particular musical scenes (the indie/hipster crowd, the metal crowd, classical fans, jazz fans, us). When you want to acquire the hit song you just heard on the radio, you hit up Google, when you want to discover new music from outside of your comfort zone you stroll down to the CD store and use the listening booths to check out artists you wouldn't normally hear on the radio.
I could live with that.
I could live with that too.

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:37

I remember having a conversation down the pub about 10 years ago saying I would never download music ( I also said I would never own a mobile phone either). In the last couple of years though I have downloaded several albums just to save a few pennies. I would be disappointed though if the CD format disappeared altogether. It is nice just to own something that you can touch. I have stacks of CD's all around me and its a big part of my life.However as long as they keep the special editions its not so bad I suppose ,I could live with it.



Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:48
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Completely agree.

My problem is, during the next 5 years when all the new music you've purchased / downloaded is on a hard drive that crashes / gets lost / destroyed, then what?

Back in the 90s I lost most of my vinyl records to a water leakage in our cellar ... digital or analog, if your collection is destroyed then it's destroyed. Digital collections of course have an advantage here, since you can create backups and then store them at other physical locations.


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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:50
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

As long as they provide .wav or .flac files. I'm not going to pay for lossy crap.

The "lossy crap" is virtually indistinguishable from the original. If you keep ignoring it it may in fact be your loss.Wink


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https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike



Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:55
I believe physical editions will always be made, albeit in limited runs for serious fans only, and only of albums from more specialist bands or on the other extreme, massively popular acts like Lady Gaga. Those in between will probably go digital only.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:58
this thread is in its 7th page (and almost over) in Prog Ears...
 
This is mostly a hoax IMHO
 
CDs still represent over 50% of revenues to the music industry, so they'd be stuuuuuuupid to shoot a bullet in the own foot
 
 
 
 
 
 


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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 04:03
other graphs


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 04:39
Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Could this turn into a boon for smaller labels? I can foresee the circumstances going like this:

Major labels abandon CDs -> Brick and mortar stores realise that devoting themselves to mainstream CD sales is a loser's game, and turn to independent labels to acquire stock, reasoning that they can survive by catering to niche/connoisseur markets instead -> Independent labels suddenly find it easier to get their CDs into stores where previously major label releases crowded them out.

The upshot of this would be a market where mainstream music is sold on a song by song basis on the internet, whilst CDs/albums are the purview of particular musical scenes (the indie/hipster crowd, the metal crowd, classical fans, jazz fans, us). When you want to acquire the hit song you just heard on the radio, you hit up Google, when you want to discover new music from outside of your comfort zone you stroll down to the CD store and use the listening booths to check out artists you wouldn't normally hear on the radio.

I could live with that.

This is the future, no doubts whatsoever.




Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 05:39
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

You're SOL unless you've backed it all up on a Cloud or something.


Right, but if you had a physical format, you wouldn't really have to worry.

What if, hypothetically, the internet fails? (well I guess there would be more to worry about than just your music collection), but still.

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I honestly feel like something could happen in the next 20 years where people are going to wish they had that hard copy of music because all the internet is down or programs on your computer are not working, like how iTunes may run with "cloud", meaning you could only listen to your music if you're connected to the internet.
I'm with you on this.  I'm not a techy and really don't understand this Cloud-thing, but it is the new most amazing thing and apparently between your iPads and your iPhones and your iComputers you will be able to access anything, everywhere on the Cloud.    Beats me what prevents this Cloud from being hacked or deleted or temporarily down for maintenance or down due to an electrical storm or sun spots or from being unaccessible because you are camping in the middle of nowhere or in my case driving in the middle of the most technology based city in the state of Michigan but not able to get a signal because there is too much electronic equipment with magnets running blocking any signals from actually being received.
The "Cloud" is the biggest con-job of the 21st Century so far. This is the first step to not actually owning anything you buy. With current downloads you can copy the file elsewhere or even burn it to CDR, with Cloud based files you are effectlvely renting the file, be that music, video, a program or even an operating system. "Microsoft Update" is essentilly just that - you no longer "own" a copy of your operating system since it can be "updated" (read "changed" or "removed") by Microsoft - it's becoming harder to actually buy hardcopy instalation discs of Microsoft operating systems - I suspect Apple is not that different, certainly a iTunes installation is essentially controlled (ie "owned") by Apple, not the user.

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What?


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 05:46
^ but there are some software products where you buy a license to use only, are you saying that these are a con job?

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Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 06:59
Originally posted by Nightfly Nightfly wrote:

Well if the major labels stop producing Cd's they won't see any more of my money. never paid for a download, never will.
 
Hopefully the independants will continue to produce them or it may have to be vinyl.


Bang on! I only buy cd's and I still have vinyl. I never download and won't.
PS: I have heard vinyl is on the increase? I recently went to watch It Bites and they are releasing an actual vinyl album.......!


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Tony C.



Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 12:59
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ but there are some software products where you buy a license to use only, are you saying that these are a con job?

The point is the fact that you technically only bought a license to play Diablo 2 is a legal sleight of hand: you have a CD to install it from and you can play it offline without Blizzard ever being aware of your existence. But Diablo 3 requires you to be connected to the internet constantly, so you have to tell them what you're doing all the time, and they have the power to take away your ability to play the game at all if they wanted to (hax don't count for the purposes of this discussion). Similarly, with the Cloud, you are putting your data in the hands of Google or Microsoft for all time. Why anyone would get one of those Chromebooks is completely beyond me.

Although I would point out to Dean that you don't have to run Windows update. ;-)
Originally posted by clarkpegasus4001 clarkpegasus4001 wrote:

PS: I have heard vinyl is on the increase?

It's not really a significant number of people, it's just increased from zero. Personally, I am planning to live my entire life without owning a turntable, and if someone wants to release a vinyl only album with no digital download then I just won't listen to it.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 13:15
I'm a bit doubtful about the veracity of this information: would major labels really ask their consumers to drastically change their habits of buying and listening in the gap of a sole year?
After all, this article just quotes the declaration of one person, based on HIS habits of buying (and it sounds like one of these great prophecies which is called to be a miss).
Talking about a five-years plan is maybe more realistic, although I would rather predict a ten-years plan... And I already feel like I'm talking a bit too much audaciously.

Moreover, I wonder how the musicians would realize if such an idea was suggested: speaking of the EMI rooster, would Kate Bush or Iron Maiden agree with this new strategy? Would younger bands and artists be ready for such a change?


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 13:32

Another thing which is becoming apparant now is that the top seller lists is a joke now. Vera Lynn got a top 1 album by selling 60 000 copies in a week. Susan Boyle is releasing her new album on Monday and is a sure candidate for the top 1 for a long while without selling even a fraction of what a chart topper sold 20 years ago.  

And here is the whole point.

Buyers of Vera Lynn and Susan Boyle is not likely to illegally or even legally downloading their albums. There is no hit lists on piracy, but I would guess the new Justin Bieber or even the new Metallica/Lou Reed album is illegally downloaded twenty - fifty times more than Susan Boyle's new album. That is not even a guess. That is an almost certainty. What does this tell the bean counters in the multi national companies ? That the CD/LP paying customers are middle aged and pensioneers in the age group 45 to 105 years old. Those are the ones paying your bills now. The youth market from 10 to 45 years old are thieves which you cannot trust to buy your stuff/pay your bills. 

This is going to dawn on the Warner bosses and the new owners of EMI who are taking over a sinking ship and somehow have to stop the ship from going under. Where are the labels going to invest their money again ? Take a guess. 

 



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 13:37
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:


Although I would point out to Dean that you don't have to run Windows update. ;-)
For the moment, and only while Microsoft let you not run it. :-þ


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 14:01
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ but there are some software products where you buy a license to use only, are you saying that these are a con job?
No - if you know you are buying a licence then that isn't a con. But if you buy a download Kindle eBook for example many people are unaware that they are buying a licence to read the book, not to own it ( http://www.law.yale.edu/news/10288.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.law.yale.edu/news/10288.htm ) - now extrapolate that to download mp3s from Amazon or iTunes, for the moment we "own" what we download, but in the future when your hardware (iPad) is tied to one piece of software (iTunes) and only one store/storage (iTunes Store/iCloud) then who can really say tht they "own" what they buy.

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 14:16
If you really want to kill music place onerous restrictions on how you enjoy it once you've paid for it.

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 14:26
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

this thread is in its 7th page (and almost over) in Prog Ears...
 
This is mostly a hoax IMHO
 
CDs still represent over 50% of revenues to the music industry, so they'd be stuuuuuuupid to shoot a bullet in the own foot
 
 



Interesting graph, a drop from 71$ to 26$ per head in just 10 years. No wonder these majors are running around in panic.
And just 26$ per head per year, I must be crazy buying at least 50 cds per year.




Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 14:44
All very interesting reading. It's a sh*thole, this digital world. I am old enough to remember when I bought a Dave Clark Five album, I owned it. When I got tired of listening to Bits and Pieces, I traded it to a friend for Rubber Soul (score!). These were physical objects I could do with as I wished. If John Lennon said something offensive, I could burn the damned thing. Ha, I just realized burning had a different meaning in the '60s. 

I'm not aware of any software company that now provides physical media, at least for OS's, the difference being, the consumer never owned a copy of the software anyway, only a license to use it. My wife's iMac (Snow Leopard) came with installation disks. My MacBook (Lion) did not. Not that it matters. In the digital age, THEY know your machine. I think registration is required. 

All kinds of content providers (whether they provide music, movies, books, magazines, you name it) are desperately trying to come up with ways to sell content without distributing it on an own-able physical copy. The music industry in particular has been fighting this for the better part of my life. Remember when the music labels wanted to impose a "tax" on blank cassettes, claiming use of said cassettes was hurting sales? Remember when a pre-recorded VHS movie cost $80? 

I realize I'm not exactly making sense here, other than to say, the battle has been ongoing for years. Analog to digital has been a bitch for all involved, and will continue to be. 

That said, I just bought a few albums from iTunes. I don't know if I'm renting or owning. I suppose I could burn a DVD though I don't know what digital rights are attached to those purchases. That I even mention "digital rights" is disturbing. 

In the meantime, play on.  


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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 16:43
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

As long as they provide .wav or .flac files. I'm not going to pay for lossy crap.

The "lossy crap" is virtually indistinguishable from the original. If you keep ignoring it it may in fact be your loss.Wink

1) It can be distinguishable if the bit rate is low enough, but rather lossless music fatigues the ears less and provides for more dynamic range.

2) if I'm going to own music, I'm going to own it in it's best possible fidelity. That's just the way it is.


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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:09
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

As long as they provide .wav or .flac files. I'm not going to pay for lossy crap.

The "lossy crap" is virtually indistinguishable from the original. If you keep ignoring it it may in fact be your loss.Wink

1) It can be distinguishable if the bit rate is low enough, but rather lossless music fatigues the ears less and provides for more dynamic range.
Oliverstonedbeard?
 
Mike's point is it is indistinguishable if the bitrate is high enough. The dynamic range is unaffected by lossy encoding techniques and the "provision" within the two systems is the same. Listener fatique is subjective and would not pass an ABX test.
 
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:


2) if I'm going to own music, I'm going to own it in it's best possible fidelity. That's just the way it is.
And that is how it should be, but bear in mind that CD, and thus ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.


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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

s ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.


How so?


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:17
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Oh hell no, the indie folks and hipsters and real music fans will keep physical releases alive.


for one welcome our new iTunes overlords will keep buying CDs (and maybe even vinyl) as long as I can, and will resort to buying used if by any chance even the indie labels stop releasing physical albums.



I'm not happy at all to see that them big labels trying to get Amazon to monopolize the CD/vinyl market.

This.

The world is really coming to an end in 2012.OuchWink


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:


2) if I'm going to own music, I'm going to own it in it's best possible fidelity. That's just the way it is.
And that is how it should be, but bear in mind that CD, and thus ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.

I suppose that's correct, but very little past 44.1 KHz is going to be noticeable, while it gets much more noticeable below that.


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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:23
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

s ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.


How so?
".wav" files are generally raw waveforms ripped from a CD, where the encoding is 16-bits at 44.1KHz sample rate (Red Book standard). In the recording studio they use 20 or 24-bits at 96KHz or 192KHz which are "better" fidelity - some artists release albums for download at this standard as ".flac" file (eg Steven Wilson).

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What?


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

s ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.


How so?
".wav" files are generally raw waveforms ripped from a CD, where the encoding is 16-bits at 44.1KHz sample rate (Red Book standard). In the recording studio they use 20 or 24-bits at 96KHz or 192KHz which are "better" fidelity - some artists release albums for download at this standard as ".flac" file (eg Steven Wilson).

Did not know that. Thanks

But you could have a .wav of a 24 bit/ 192KHz sample?


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:39
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:


2) if I'm going to own music, I'm going to own it in it's best possible fidelity. That's just the way it is.
And that is how it should be, but bear in mind that CD, and thus ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.

I suppose that's correct, but very little past 44.1 KHz is going to be noticeable, while it gets much more noticeable below that.
I'm not convinced one way or the other about higher sampling rates and find 44.1KHz to be acceptable to me. For telemetry and instrumentation I wouldn't use Nyquist, but would want at least ten samples per cycle of the highest frequency I was trying to encode - which for audio would require sampling rates in excess of 200KHz - this would preserve the waveshape and phase of the ultrasonic components.
 
However the 16-bits is a possible limitation if the music you are listening to has a naturally high dynamic range with prolonged quiet passages that will affect fidelity across the audio spectrum.


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What?


Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:41
You'd think for news this big you'd get a bigger site covering it than side-line.com. I don't buy it. Confused


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:44
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


 
However the 16-bits is a possible limitation if the music you are listening to has a naturally high dynamic range with prolonged quiet passages that will affect fidelity across the audio spectrum.

I would think so too, especially for classical and jazz. 


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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: TheClosing
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:55
Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

You'd think for news this big you'd get a bigger site covering it than side-line.com. I don't buy it. Confused


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:55
Other than the political fallout this will cause record companies - which will be more significant than the prospect of vinyl, tape, or non-Bluray video items disappearing - what concerns me is general catalog;  you'd think with a download format, access to unusual, rare, old or overseas recordings would improve but I fear the opposite could happen.   One of the great things about the CD revolution was the eventual uncovering and re-releasing of so many wonderful things [e.g. Prog] that may have been lost or neglected forever.   Will that be the case with non-phys?   I wonder, and worry.



Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:00
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Will that be the case with non-phys?   I wonder, and worry.

Unless the musician has a stick up their ass and blocks it, I would imagine that more things would be rereleased digitally than on CD because there's almost no costs involved in making something available digitally.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:00
You'd think


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:01
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

s ".wav" files, are not the best possible fidelity.


How so?
".wav" files are generally raw waveforms ripped from a CD, where the encoding is 16-bits at 44.1KHz sample rate (Red Book standard). In the recording studio they use 20 or 24-bits at 96KHz or 192KHz which are "better" fidelity - some artists release albums for download at this standard as ".flac" file (eg Steven Wilson).

Did not know that. Thanks

But you could have a .wav of a 24 bit/ 192KHz sample?
You could but the resulting file size would be massive - a CD is 800MB and can contain 70ish minutes of 16-bit/44.1KHz music. The same music encoded at 24-bits/192KHz would be 4.8GBs.

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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:08
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Will that be the case with non-phys?   I wonder, and worry.

Unless the musician has a stick up their ass and blocks it, I would imagine that more things would be rereleased digitally than on CD because there's almost no costs involved in making something available digitally.
Accountability is going to be a huge headache - many artists struggle to get real sales figures (and thus roylaties) out of record companies when there is a physical product to count, I imagine the task is many times harder for downloads (there have already been cases reported of artists not being paid for downloads).

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What?


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm not convinced one way or the other about higher sampling rates and find 44.1KHz to be acceptable to me. For telemetry and instrumentation I wouldn't use Nyquist, but would want at least ten samples per cycle of the highest frequency I was trying to encode - which for audio would require sampling rates in excess of 200KHz - this would preserve the waveshape and phase of the ultrasonic components.


Whoa.  In my line of work I have never, ever required such a high oversampling ratio.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:14
well hold on to your CDs people, they may be little treasures someday 


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:23
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm not convinced one way or the other about higher sampling rates and find 44.1KHz to be acceptable to me. For telemetry and instrumentation I wouldn't use Nyquist, but would want at least ten samples per cycle of the highest frequency I was trying to encode - which for audio would require sampling rates in excess of 200KHz - this would preserve the waveshape and phase of the ultrasonic components.


Whoa.  In my line of work I have never, ever required such a high oversampling ratio.
In the past I have seen this ratio used on airframe stress telemetry, and recently I have tried testing the encoders used for sampling seismic data which employed well above Nyquist sampling rates (then the signals involved were <<0.1Hz)

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What?


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:31
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm not convinced one way or the other about higher sampling rates and find 44.1KHz to be acceptable to me. For telemetry and instrumentation I wouldn't use Nyquist, but would want at least ten samples per cycle of the highest frequency I was trying to encode - which for audio would require sampling rates in excess of 200KHz - this would preserve the waveshape and phase of the ultrasonic components.


Whoa.  In my line of work I have never, ever required such a high oversampling ratio.
In the past I have seen this ratio used on airframe stress telemetry, and recently I have tried testing the encoders used for sampling seismic data which employed well above Nyquist sampling rates (then the signals involved were <<0.1Hz)


You can certainly afford to be generous in those frequency regimes - but imagine the 10x requirement for signals with bandwidths of several hundred MHz.  Smile


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:34
maybe this what the Mayans were worried about 


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 21:04
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

well hold on to your CDs people, they may be little treasures someday 
I'm certainly holding on to them not because they may turn into a mini-gold-mine but because they already are my treasure.

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 21:08
I wonder when will the video side of things follow suit. Though video streaming hasn't even approached the level of picture quality of a blu-ray disc, quality is not even close yet, but people look for what's cheap and lazy, so I guess streaming will eventually kill physical movies too. And games also.

Damn I'm already a dinosaur.

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 21:08
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:


You can certainly afford to be generous in those frequency regimes - but imagine the 10x requirement for signals with bandwidths of several hundred MHz.  Smile
It is certainly affected by what it is you are looking for. It could be stated that in seismic data (for example) 10x oversampling of the fundamental is merely Nyquist sampling of the highest component of interest on that fundamental, but I've never seen it spec'd that way. I don't believe that in audio 192KHz sampling is looking for components between 22.05KHz and 96KHz in the analog signal (for example).

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 21:10
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I wonder when will the video side of things follow suit. Though video streaming hasn't even approached the level of picture quality of a blu-ray disc, quality is not even close yet, but people look for what's cheap and lazy, so I guess streaming will eventually kill physical movies too. And games also.

Damn I'm already a dinosaur.
The first question there is "how popular is blu-ray compared to DVD?"

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What?


Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 23:06
CDs were sent out to kill vinyl LPs, but it didn't completely work out that way.
As long as vinyl LPs are on the market there will be CDs. Everyone stop panicking.


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 23:32
I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying that Alcest ...De Lune album. That sucker will rip you a new a****le in spite of the spotty production. Well we complain about this all the time, eh? . All courtesy download from iTunes. I have no idea whether or not I "own" it. As long as it plays, I'm good. If it doesn't, someday the gummiest decides the cloud ain't legal, well then we may have to get out the guns. I would  hope it never comes to that,

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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 01:24
I can't wait for the day when something happens, and people lose their digital music collections, and I'll be on the other side of the proverbial room, laughing away as I take out one of my CDs and throw them on... Of course, they'll just get it all back by torrenting it all.

On the topic of movies and such, one reason Blu-rays and DVDs might not disappear as fast as CDs is that one movie usually takes up a lot more space on a computer than a song or album. Like 3 times as much space. Also, I think a downloaded movie's picture quality is not as good as actually getting a Blu-ray (which, I must say, is prestine quality).

Can you download movies? Sorry if I'm being ignorant.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 02:27
I really think the only confirmed dinosaurs in the media world these days are 8-tracks, reel to reel, VHS, Betamax...

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 06:55
Ya know, it's funny. I sometimes refer to stuff as being "somewhere down in the basement", my basement being where no longer used technology ends up. I need to clean it out, lest people think I'm some kind of sketchy hoarder. I'm not a hoarder, I'm just lazy. In any case, there's my Teac reel-to-reel down there (heads are shot), not to mention the Tascam 4-track recorder. Not to mention 1200 baud modems and even a few 56k ones. And the VHS player. And old computers. It's a veritable tech museum. I would hate to think my CD player would be down there some day, though of course it will end up there eventually.

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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 10:49
You don't have a basement there, what you have is an electronics graveyard.  I know from experience.

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 10:55
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I can't wait for the day when something happens, and people lose their digital music collections, and I'll be on the other side of the proverbial room, laughing away as I take out one of my CDs and throw them on...


Of course, if the electrical grid completely collapses, all bets are off.




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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 11:01
Originally posted by zappaholic zappaholic wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I can't wait for the day when something happens, and people lose their digital music collections, and I'll be on the other side of the proverbial room, laughing away as I take out one of my CDs and throw them on...


Of course, if the electrical grid completely collapses, all bets are off.




Well, it can't be the loss of ALL power, then I can't play my CDs. (I don't have a walkman anymore.)


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 11:02
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

maybe this what the Mayans were worried about 



That's a CD right there.


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 23:14
 ^ That's all I'm saying


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 05:57
Nice picture disc. Which band is it?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 06:04
LOL

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What?


Posted By: Warthur
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 08:28
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I can't wait for the day when something happens, and people lose their digital music collections, and I'll be on the other side of the proverbial room, laughing away as I take out one of my CDs and throw them on... Of course, they'll just get it all back by torrenting it all.
My digital collection is backed up on my computer, my backup external hard drive, and my iPod. It's probably far safer than my CDs at this point - to the extent that I digitise my CDs just in case they're ever lost rather than keeping my CDs in case my digital copies are ever lost.

Quote On the topic of movies and such, one reason Blu-rays and DVDs might not disappear as fast as CDs is that one movie usually takes up a lot more space on a computer than a song or album. Like 3 times as much space. Also, I think a downloaded movie's picture quality is not as good as actually getting a Blu-ray (which, I must say, is prestine quality).

Can you download movies? Sorry if I'm being ignorant.
DVD-quality stuff you can download, but obviously unless you have a pretty good connection it'll take a while. Blu-Rays obviously take longer so it's less convenient.

Then again, the video/movie industry has an advantage in that people are willing to rent movies temporarily whereas people have always preferred to own albums outright, so they've been able to offer streaming movie rentals at a very reasonable price (via NetFlix/XBox Live etc. - and the advantage they have is that for most people getting a movie that way is more convenient than the hassle of downloading it. Plus they're offering a heap of sweet extras on Blu-Rays these days that downloads would struggle to compete with.

Some of the big studios are even releasing so-called "triple play" packs, where you get a Blu-Ray of the film, plus a DVD (which you could then happily lend to anyone who doesn't have a blu-ray player, or use yourself until you get around to converting to Blu-Ray), and a digital copy you can load onto any device you like, all for the price of a standard Blu-Ray. They've by and large realised that they create more goodwill - and thus make people more inclined to pay money - if they work with their cuatomers rather than against them.


Posted By: Redug
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 10:18
I'll probably cease to actually buy any music whatsoever if there is no physical medium offered. I just don't feel right paying 10-15$ for a download.


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 08:20
In a weird way I'm not bothered. I'm an LP album cover fanatic, and with the emergence of the CD all that went down the drain. So if it had been theoretically possible at the time, they could have already turned to download exclusively when the LP went the way of the dodo, for all I care.


Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 08:51
Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I can't wait for the day when something happens, and people lose their digital music collections, and I'll be on the other side of the proverbial room, laughing away as I take out one of my CDs and throw them on... Of course, they'll just get it all back by torrenting it all.
My digital collection is backed up on my computer, my backup external hard drive, and my iPod. It's probably far safer than my CDs at this point - to the extent that I digitise my CDs just in case they're ever lost rather than keeping my CDs in case my digital copies are ever lost.

Quote On the topic of movies and such, one reason Blu-rays and DVDs might not disappear as fast as CDs is that one movie usually takes up a lot more space on a computer than a song or album. Like 3 times as much space. Also, I think a downloaded movie's picture quality is not as good as actually getting a Blu-ray (which, I must say, is prestine quality).

Can you download movies? Sorry if I'm being ignorant.
DVD-quality stuff you can download, but obviously unless you have a pretty good connection it'll take a while. Blu-Rays obviously take longer so it's less convenient.

Then again, the video/movie industry has an advantage in that people are willing to rent movies temporarily whereas people have always preferred to own albums outright, so they've been able to offer streaming movie rentals at a very reasonable price (via NetFlix/XBox Live etc. - and the advantage they have is that for most people getting a movie that way is more convenient than the hassle of downloading it. Plus they're offering a heap of sweet extras on Blu-Rays these days that downloads would struggle to compete with.

Some of the big studios are even releasing so-called "triple play" packs, where you get a Blu-Ray of the film, plus a DVD (which you could then happily lend to anyone who doesn't have a blu-ray player, or use yourself until you get around to converting to Blu-Ray), and a digital copy you can load onto any device you like, all for the price of a standard Blu-Ray. They've by and large realised that they create more goodwill - and thus make people more inclined to pay money - if they work with their cuatomers rather than against them.
Working for redbox it becomes pretty obvious that people are still interested in dvds and blu rays even if just as rentals, they arent going  anywhere

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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:46
Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Some of the big studios are even releasing so-called "triple play" packs, where you get a Blu-Ray of the film, plus a DVD (which you could then happily lend to anyone who doesn't have a blu-ray player, or use yourself until you get around to converting to Blu-Ray), and a digital copy you can load onto any device you like, all for the price of a standard Blu-Ray. They've by and large realised that they create more goodwill - and thus make people more inclined to pay money - if they work with their cuatomers rather than against them.
This--  you listening industry ??




Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:57
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Some of the big studios are even releasing so-called "triple play" packs, where you get a Blu-Ray of the film, plus a DVD (which you could then happily lend to anyone who doesn't have a blu-ray player, or use yourself until you get around to converting to Blu-Ray), and a digital copy you can load onto any device you like, all for the price of a standard Blu-Ray. They've by and large realised that they create more goodwill - and thus make people more inclined to pay money - if they work with their cuatomers rather than against them.
This--  you listening industry ??


'scuse me for being a cynic here, but isn't this backdoor selling of Blu-ray discs to encourage more people to adopt the format?
 
Sony sell the Playstation 3 for less than it costs to make because of the Blu-ray compatible transport, the most likely reason why they did this was to get blu-ray players into more homes by the backdoor. Sony caught a crab with Betamax and they had no intention of doing that again with CD and DVD, hence the deal with Philips and buying up media producers in the 80s (eg Columbia and CBS).
 
So this is just another tactic to ensure they don't lose the HD optical media war IMO.


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What?


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Warthur Warthur wrote:

Some of the big studios are even releasing so-called "triple play" packs, where you get a Blu-Ray of the film, plus a DVD (which you could then happily lend to anyone who doesn't have a blu-ray player, or use yourself until you get around to converting to Blu-Ray), and a digital copy you can load onto any device you like, all for the price of a standard Blu-Ray. They've by and large realised that they create more goodwill - and thus make people more inclined to pay money - if they work with their cuatomers rather than against them.
This--  you listening industry ??


'scuse me for being a cynic here, but isn't this backdoor selling of Blu-ray discs to encourage more people to adopt the format?
 
Sony sell the Playstation 3 for less than it costs to make because of the Blu-ray compatible transport, the most likely reason why they did this was to get blu-ray players into more homes by the backdoor. Sony caught a crab with Betamax and they had no intention of doing that again with CD and DVD, hence the deal with Philips and buying up media producers in the 80s (eg Columbia and CBS).
 
So this is just another tactic to ensure they don't lose the HD optical media war IMO.
I forgot Sony was in on the whole bleu-ray thing.  Revenge of the Betamax I guess.  Betamax's ultimate downfall against VHS was that it couldn't hold longer movies in a single cassette. 

Anyway, this thread need some Jen for those who missed this:
cartoon
And a little research confirms I'm not having thread deja voodoo:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64142&KW=end+of&PN=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64142&KW=end+of&PN=1


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:53
I don't see the issue anywhere with this CD thing. You can still buy blank cassette tape, reel-reel tape and VHS tapes. The big record companies may be looking at digital downloads but I doubt it will be the only media they are involved in. CD's are here to stay, the music companies don't make them, some media storage company will still make blank CD's.
And there will always be small indie labels issuing CD albums just like they are doing now with vinyl....Its their niche. Sony and the like are only looking at how to capture the mass media market via the internet, its quick and easy money for them....specifically the pop, hip hop and country music scene. Seems to me all other genres do not fit this profile. Although I do believe the online music subscription service will only grow.....The ability to download music on the fly whether at home, work, airport, park, beach is what makes it so attractive versus having to get in your car, bus, bike and go to a music store and purposefully browse for music for 2 hours and only to find that what you are looking for is not physically available.
 
You all know I love vinyl and I will sit and dig thru countless bins looking for those gems and jewels....but I also will sit at home in my PJs and download music without batting an eye.
 
You can still find parts for a '64 VW Bug or a '57 Chevy.......why on earth would the CD go away after about 35yrs....


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