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The true successors of Yes

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80593
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Topic: The true successors of Yes
Posted By: roberto59
Subject: The true successors of Yes
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 07:27
Dear All,

this is my first post here, so forgive any mistake I may make as a newcomer.

I have been a long time YES fan and as many others I am highly disappointed by the musical course the band has taken after splitting from Jon and Rick.

I would like to ask you which are in your opinion the best current bands that make music with a strong vocal and instrumental harmonic side like the classic Yes. I'll give you an example: I just finished listening to Moon Safari's Lover's End: beautiful record and very good vocally, but a bit "superficial" as far as the instrumental development is concerned. Do you know of any group with similar vocal harmonies and deeper musical content?

Thanks to all who will take some time to reply!

BR

Roberto


Replies:
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 09:10
Two that come to mind for me are The Flower Kings and Magenta, especially their Metamorphosis album. Neither has the level of vocal harmony of Yes at it's best, but musically I find them very solidly in the Yes category and enjoy both quite a bit.

As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 10:14
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

Two that come to mind for me are The Flower Kings and Magenta, especially their Metamorphosis album. Neither has the level of vocal harmony of Yes at it's best, but musically I find them very solidly in the Yes category and enjoy both quite a bit.

As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.


Yes, Flower Kings and Magenta are the best examples. I would add Glass Hammer, but to a certain degree.

Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 10:38
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

Two that come to mind for me are The Flower Kings and Magenta, especially their Metamorphosis album. Neither has the level of vocal harmony of Yes at it's best, but musically I find them very solidly in the Yes category and enjoy both quite a bit.

As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.


I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.





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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 12:33
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.

I sense some bias here.  Genesis quickly deteriorated after the departure of Gabriel.  They produced one good album and one just so-so, with every album after that with only slight hints of good prog.
 
Yes, while not equalling Fragile or Close To The Edge since the seventies, has at least retained prog creds, as well as creating some very good music into this millenium.
 
In their Gabriel period they were excellent, creating a sound all their own.  But as great as they were, their sound was simpler, and thus easier to reproduce, than Yes.  Which is why there are so many more Genesis inspired bands than Yes inspired. 
 
 


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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 12:45
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.

I sense some bias here.  Genesis quickly deteriorated after the departure of Gabriel.  They produced one good album and one just so-so, with every album after that with only slight hints of good prog.
 
Yes, while not equalling Fragile or Close To The Edge since the seventies, has at least retained prog creds, as well as creating some very good music into this millenium.
 
In their Gabriel period they were excellent, creating a sound all their own.  But as great as they were, their sound was simpler, and thus easier to reproduce, than Yes.  Which is why there are so many more Genesis inspired bands than Yes inspired. 
 


I mostly agree with you here, but what kind of bias you see in my comment?Confused


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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 12:48
Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:



I have been a long time YES fan and as many others I am highly disappointed by the musical course the band has taken after splitting from Jon and Rick.


Doesn't sound that radically different to me. Confused


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 13:03
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.

I sense some bias here.  Genesis quickly deteriorated after the departure of Gabriel.  They produced one good album and one just so-so, with every album after that with only slight hints of good prog.
 
Yes, while not equalling Fragile or Close To The Edge since the seventies, has at least retained prog creds, as well as creating some very good music into this millenium.
 
In their Gabriel period they were excellent, creating a sound all their own.  But as great as they were, their sound was simpler, and thus easier to reproduce, than Yes.  Which is why there are so many more Genesis inspired bands than Yes inspired. 
 


I mostly agree with you here, but what kind of bias you see in my comment?Confused
Maybe I sensed something that wasn't there, but it seemed to me that you were placing both Genesis and TFK above Yes in the pantheon of prog. 


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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 13:08






The band name should make their intentions quite clear. ;)

Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 13:28
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.

I sense some bias here.  Genesis quickly deteriorated after the departure of Gabriel.  They produced one good album and one just so-so, with every album after that with only slight hints of good prog.
 
Yes, while not equalling Fragile or Close To The Edge since the seventies, has at least retained prog creds, as well as creating some very good music into this millenium.
 
In their Gabriel period they were excellent, creating a sound all their own.  But as great as they were, their sound was simpler, and thus easier to reproduce, than Yes.  Which is why there are so many more Genesis inspired bands than Yes inspired. 
 


I mostly agree with you here, but what kind of bias you see in my comment?Confused
Maybe I sensed something that wasn't there, but it seemed to me that you were placing both Genesis and TFK above Yes in the pantheon of prog. 


Well, TFK has surely more constancy than Yes, but I wouldn't put Unfold the Future (my fav by them) above The Yes Album or Fragile (my favorite and second favorite, respectively), the latter is more important and qualitative better than the former, when they were at their peak.

What I ment was that TFK released more good albums than Yes throughout their career. I mean, really, apart from TYA, Fragile and Relayer, Yes does not have many more albums that really thrill me and I enjoy more TFK albums than I enjoy Yes albums, but none of the albums by TFK can manage to be as good as these three for me.

And I certainly would not place Genesis above Yes. LOL


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Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 13:31
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:

Two that come to mind for me are The Flower Kings and Magenta, especially their Metamorphosis album. Neither has the level of vocal harmony of Yes at it's best, but musically I find them very solidly in the Yes category and enjoy both quite a bit.

As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.


I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.



LOL Didn't quite mean it that way, but........

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 13:34
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I liked how you subtlelly said Genesis was an untallented band. LOL

As for The Flower Kings, I would say that they are a better band than Yes in at least in the lastability of their group, since they are out there for at least a couple of decades, with no sign of stopping and with an average album quality of the highest degree. Yes has most of their best albums placed in the first half of the 70's, wile TFK have top quality albums released throughout their existance.

I sense some bias here.  Genesis quickly deteriorated after the departure of Gabriel.  They produced one good album and one just so-so, with every album after that with only slight hints of good prog.
 
Yes, while not equalling Fragile or Close To The Edge since the seventies, has at least retained prog creds, as well as creating some very good music into this millenium.
 
In their Gabriel period they were excellent, creating a sound all their own.  But as great as they were, their sound was simpler, and thus easier to reproduce, than Yes.  Which is why there are so many more Genesis inspired bands than Yes inspired. 
 


I mostly agree with you here, but what kind of bias you see in my comment?Confused
Maybe I sensed something that wasn't there, but it seemed to me that you were placing both Genesis and TFK above Yes in the pantheon of prog. 


Well, TFK has surely more constancy than Yes, but I wouldn't put Unfold the Future (my fav by them) above The Yes Album or Fragile (my favorite and second favorite, respectively), the latter is more important and qualitative better than the former, when they were at their peak.

What I ment was that TFK released more good albums than Yes throughout their career. I mean, really, apart from TYA, Fragile and Relayer, Yes does not have many more albums that really thrill me and I enjoy more TFK albums than I enjoy Yes albums, but none of the albums by TFK can manage to be as good as these three for me.

And I certainly would not place Genesis above Yes. LOL
I see your point.
And as the man said to the orthopedic shoe salesman, "I stand corrected."


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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 16:58
Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:


I have been a long time YES fan and as many others I am highly disappointed by the musical course the band has taken after splitting from Jon and Rick.

Yes were one of my favourite bands as a teenager in the 70s.

The only difference between you and I though is that I've been disappointed by their musical course since "Going For The One" Wink


Quote I would like to ask you which are in your opinion the best current bands that make music with a strong vocal and instrumental harmonic side like the classic Yes. I'll give you an example: I just finished listening to Moon Safari's Lover's End: beautiful record and very good vocally, but a bit "superficial" as far as the instrumental development is concerned. Do you know of any group with similar vocal harmonies and deeper musical content?

Roberto

I echo the many recommendations for The Flower Kings Wink

To me, they took over where Yes went wrong from Tormato onwards and they've cerianly been my favourite band for the last 15 years or so.

Not that they are Yes clones or anything but Roine Stolt (their guitarist) is certainly influenced by Howe - but then he's influenced by Hackett, Latimer. Gilmour, Hendrix and any number of other guitarists.

Have a look at this clip from there epic "Garden of Dreams":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuBIi1oJ6f4&feature=related" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuBIi1oJ6f4&feature=related

I posted that clip on a Genesis forum and someone immediately ordered the DVD that it's taken from Smile

Hope you enjoy it as well

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 17:28
Why nobody has mentioned the Spock's Beard (until Snow)? Also Starcastle are "good clones" if one wants more "Yes" than available. 



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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 17:40
Yes were pretty good up until 1980 with Drama. Although their consistent high quality dropped after 1972. Either the quality of songs weren't quite as strong or the long songs were hit and miss over the duration of the track. Not interested in what pop bands have been their successor Big smile

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 17:46
Pop bands? You mean ABWH ? LOL

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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 18:07
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Pop bands? You mean ABWH ? LOL
 
spocks beard, flower kings, porcupine tree LOL

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 18:37

........oh, and by the way, the last time I saw The Flower Kings in London, Chris Squire was there checking them out Wink

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:02
Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván




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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:13
Babylon´s self titled from 78 is the best "reincarnation" of the Yes sound to my ears. Otherwise you should probably check out the new Wobbler album Rites at Dawn, which has a very strong Yes parallel.




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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:21
what about Yezda Urfa who mixed Gentle Giant with Yes that would count for something i think

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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:23
^I second that recommendation. Great album, and to think it originally was a demo!

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:49
Another vote for The Flower Kings here.  No real surprise as they have a decent following here on the Prog Archives, but in my opinion they have moments that emulate Yes, but they turn those moments into their own and take them in a new direction.

Tom


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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.

Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 20:53
Not a recent band, but...




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http://theprogressiveweb.blogspot.de" rel="nofollow - Visit me in Second Life to talk about music.

Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 21:05
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván


Don't get me wrong. I in no way am suggesting that classic Genesis wasn't great music or difficult-I am a big fan of theirs. 

As to your list, I agree with some, but IMHO few of them are much more than clones. What I like about Flower Kings and Magenta is that they are very original, but are clearly influenced and inspired by Yes and I think are far better than most others because they aren't trying to sound like Yes. 

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 20 2011 at 23:04
Genesis's SOUND is not so hard to emulate, just a few keyboard arpeggios and you're there, kind of.  To truly emulate the very substance of their music is hard.  I have personally NEVER heard the spirit of Genesis or Yes's music truly encapsulated in a more contemporary prog rock band's work, save Kevin Gilbert's Shaming the True album and even that is a simplified approach to Genesis.   

Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 00:14
I don't think there's a point looking for the true successor of Yes, or the true successor of anyone to be honest. Each band has its own thing, and if it truly doesn't- then I don't really think they should be listened to at all. But people judge different bands as clones or not clones. 

Don't look for successor, look for innovator (ugh that felt cheesy to say...)


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There be dragons

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 00:19
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:



I have been a long time YES fan and as many others I am highly disappointed by the musical course the band has taken after splitting from Jon and Rick.


Doesn't sound that radically different to me. Confused

Sorry, friend, but I cannot agree less!   Musically, the newest Yes is fair to decent, although Downes is perhaps the least competent of the long history of Yes keyboardists.  Benoit David is quite decent on Fly From Here. 

However, I find the latest lyrics to be insipid beyond my ability to tolerate!  Believe me, I have tried repeatedly!!  

Example:  The Revealing Science of God

Dawn of light lying between a silence and sold sources, 

Chased amid fusions of wonder, in moments hardly seen forgotten, 

Coloured in pastures of chance dancing leaves cast spells of 

challenge, 

Amused but real in thought, we fled from the sea whole. 


Compared to Fly From Here:


Along the edge of this airfield

The old prop-shaft airliners stand

Altimeters reading zero

Formless memories lingering


Nights are cold on this airfield

I sit alone watching radar 

Locked on the wavelength, God in the field

Falling slowly into the screen

-------


I'm sorry, but UGH!!!  Dead

Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 00:26
^ I can't say I saw too much of a difference- but I've never been a fan of Yes' lyrics...

But yeah the Fly From Here ones were pretty terrible...


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There be dragons

Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 00:32

I think Maps and Atlases sounds like yes.... especially their spirit is yesish



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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 01:18
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:


Don't look for successor, look for innovator (ugh that felt cheesy to say...)


That would make for an awesome thrash metal chorus. Headbanger

Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 01:22
^^^^ Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd dead inside Cry

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There be dragons

Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 02:11
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

^^^^ Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd dead inside Cry

Quick, transalate it into Kobaian so you can become pure again!

Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 02:53
ummmm

Huun Tuur isma irrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrqa irrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrqa stanodum?

Close enough


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There be dragons

Posted By: wjohnd
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 04:05
I'd add to the recommendations for the Flower Kings. As a primer you could do far worse than invest in their live album 'Meet the Flower Kings' which has some of their best and most epic songs on it.

Also Transatlantic SMTPe if only for All of the Above - a very Yes-like epic .  

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 05:19
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Babylon´s self titled from 78 is the best "reincarnation" of the Yes sound to my ears. Otherwise you should probably check out the new Wobbler album Rites at Dawn, which has a very strong Yes parallel.




That's a good record, but can a  band that had made one album could be consider the true successor of YES? Is this band could have made another series of quality albums of the nature of all the best Yes albums? Maybe we could have name this band the temporary successor of Yes. Also i will have to listen to that album again, because it seems to me that they have also a Genesis's influence.

Posted By: roberto59
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 06:37
Dear All,


first of all thnk you very much: I am surprised by the amount of replies and the explainations given together with the comments: I am excited to think how much good music I may enjoy following your suggestions!

A  few words of clarification: of course I was referring to the "Yes- spirit" (if this does mean something to you) of their golden period in order to look for successors. However I am quite inclined to like music including vocal harmonies and choral parts and I am personally fond of Jon Anderson's voice (but this is another story adn should not limitate the suggestions).

Someone mentioned that it would make more sense to look for innovators than for "reincarnations" and I agree in general, although I am quite convinced tha musically the 70's prog is still unequalled. For instance I like very much Dream Theatre, but I don't have the same "thrill" I still have when I listen to the classic Yes: am I getting too old?


Thanks again everybody and I'll keep on reading!

Roberto

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 06:41
^^You´re right, makes no sense whatsoever. I just thought he should listen to a good album. Temporary succesor seems about right.
And there´s some Genesis popped in there as well alongside some pre-Fish vocals on Mote in God´s Eye:




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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 13:37
Sorry, I've been following this thread and now I just have to butt in, enough is enough.

The Flower Kings are nothing like Yes AT ALL.

I feel very strongly that the TFK Appreciation Society is using this opportunity to plug their favourite band for all it's worth, regardless of content.

Yes is (OK, was) a most fantastic band that not only produced wonderfully complex and at the same time melodic and (especially) rocking music, whereas no song, and i MEAN no song at all by TFK has any rocking quality or energy that could even remotely equal it.

I don't doubt they're a fantastic band in their own right (already trying to rebuild bridges here), but their music is geared much more toward improvisation (which Yes never did) and endless noodling solos (which Yes never did either). Sure, some similarities are there, but only to Yes' quieter moments. Yes mainly used them as a bridge toward their next explosion of energy, but TFK seem endlessly stuck in these bridge sequences. Adfditionally I defy anyone to immediately identify any TFK song, after a short while they all sound the same. Yes' songs are immediately identifiable. Believe me, after all the hype on the appropriate forum threads I've tried to seriously get into them, but it's not long before terrible boredom sets in.

If you like that sort of thing, fine. I can see the quality, although I have to be in the mood for it, but as a recommendation for someone looking for a new Yes? No way!

As for recommendations: I'd probably have to go along with early Starcastle and Yezda Urfa, although both long defunct. Both these bands don't offer any continuation of the Yes style, but I consider them quite good copies. As for anyone carrying the flag to new horizons: I don't believe there is anyone.

Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 13:45
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván



Do you really wanna go there Iván? I mean, really man . . . . Ermm Nuke Head on wall


-------------

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 14:07
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Sorry, I've been following this thread and now I just have to butt in, enough is enough.

The Flower Kings are nothing like Yes AT ALL.

I feel very strongly that the TFK Appreciation Society is using this opportunity to plug their favourite band for all it's worth, regardless of content.

Yes is (OK, was) a most fantastic band that not only produced wonderfully complex and at the same time melodic and (especially) rocking music, whereas no song, and i MEAN no song at all by TFK has any rocking quality or energy that could even remotely equal it.

I don't doubt they're a fantastic band in their own right (already trying to rebuild bridges here), but their music is geared much more toward improvisation (which Yes never did) and endless noodling solos (which Yes never did either). Sure, some similarities are there, but only to Yes' quieter moments. Yes mainly used them as a bridge toward their next explosion of energy, but TFK seem endlessly stuck in these bridge sequences. Adfditionally I defy anyone to immediately identify any TFK song, after a short while they all sound the same. Yes' songs are immediately identifiable. Believe me, after all the hype on the appropriate forum threads I've tried to seriously get into them, but it's not long before terrible boredom sets in.

If you like that sort of thing, fine. I can see the quality, although I have to be in the mood for it, but as a recommendation for someone looking for a new Yes? No way!

As for recommendations: I'd probably have to go along with early Starcastle and Yezda Urfa, although both long defunct. Both these bands don't offer any continuation of the Yes style, but I consider them quite good copies. As for anyone carrying the flag to new horizons: I don't believe there is anyone.


You say "Not at ALL" and after that : "Sure some similarities are there"...Confused I think you have made some valuable points in the difference between both, but you have made some exaggeration here saying that all songs sound the same. And i don't feel terrible boredom listening to FK's music. We are not saying that FK is equal to Yes, but try to find another band that is closer to Yes sound, and youre going to have tough time. The sound and compostions of Flower Kings are very different from Yes, but how can you hide the similarity of the guitar playing of Ronnie Stolt to Steve Howe. It's pretty obvious...

Posted By: wjohnd
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 14:07
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Sorry, I've been following this thread and now I just have to butt in, enough is enough.

The Flower Kings are nothing like Yes AT ALL.

I feel very strongly that the TFK Appreciation Society is using this opportunity to plug their favourite band for all it's worth, regardless of content.

..........

If you like that sort of thing, fine. I can see the quality, although I have to be in the mood for it, but as a recommendation for someone looking for a new Yes? No way!

As for recommendations: I'd probably have to go along with early Starcastle and Yezda Urfa, although both long defunct. Both these bands don't offer any continuation of the Yes style, but I consider them quite good copies. As for anyone carrying the flag to new horizons: I don't believe there is anyone.

While i'll concede FK do  not have the frantic energy of some Yes, the music (for me) is very evocative of Yes in many ways- bonkers lyrics included.

Starcastle on the other hand? Beyong Lady of the Lake I was never impressed. Putting on Starcastle was like listening to Yes on an off day rather than a band that had ambitions and talents of their own.

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 18:51
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Sorry, I've been following this thread and now I just have to butt in, enough is enough.

Ooo! What's happened? This should be interesting.......


Quote The Flower Kings are nothing like Yes AT ALL

A totally ridiculous comment.

TFK have been massively influenced by Yes and very occasionally sound very similar.

In addition to this, they have a similar vibe and cosmic spiritual feel about them.


Quote I feel very strongly that the TFK Appreciation Society is using this opportunity to plug their favourite band for all it's worth, regardless of content.

Your "very strong" feelings are letting you down.

Personally I'm just responding honestly to Roberto's question.


Quote Yes is (OK, was) a most fantastic band that not only produced wonderfully complex and at the same time melodic and (especially) rocking music, whereas no song, and i MEAN no song at all by TFK has any rocking quality or energy that could even remotely equal it.

In your opinion.

I feel very strongly that you are completely wrong Wink


Quote I don't doubt they're a fantastic band in their own right (already trying to rebuild bridges here), but their music is geared much more toward improvisation (which Yes never did) and endless noodling solos

Personally I can't stand too much improvisation or "endless noodling solos". I would concede that TFK do occasionally do this in a live context but it's probably my least favourite aspect of the band.


Quote (which Yes never did either).

What??

I literally fell asleep during a Chris Squire bass solo on the Drama tour.


Quote Sure, some similarities are there, but only to Yes' quieter moments.

Eh?

You just said "The Flower Kings are nothing like Yes AT ALL" Confused


Quote Yes mainly used them as a bridge toward their next explosion of energy, but TFK seem endlessly stuck in these bridge sequences. Adfditionally I defy anyone to immediately identify any TFK song, after a short while they all sound the same. Yes' songs are immediately identifiable. Believe me, after all the hype on the appropriate forum threads I've tried to seriously get into them, but it's not long before terrible boredom sets in.

It is plainly obvious that you don't really know The Flower Kings very well at all.


Quote If you like that sort of thing, fine.

I love it Smile


Quote I can see the quality, although I have to be in the mood for it, but as a recommendation for someone looking for a new Yes? No way!

I totally disagree

Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: August 21 2011 at 19:53
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

 

Adfditionally I defy anyone to immediately identify any TFK song, after a short while they all sound the same. Yes' songs are immediately identifiable. Believe me, after all the hype on the appropriate forum threads I've tried to seriously get into them, but it's not long before terrible boredom sets in.


Seriously, it's cool and all of that if you don't like The Flower Kings, everyone has their own opinion, but I find the above statement insulting.  

There is a fine line between you thinking that all Flower Kings songs sound exactly the same, but to infer that the "Flower King Appreciation Society" effectively can't tell the difference between the songs of our favorite band is unnecessarily derogatory.  





-------------
-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.

Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 00:01
Just to clear this up: I don't dislike the Flower Kings, they just leave me completely cold. I object strongly to them being recommended as some sort of Yes replacement, that was and is the reason nof my post.

I have every studio TFK CD in standing on my shelf, and I have made every effort to find something of interest me there. I must have listened to each CD 8 to 10 times, but I find them sensationally uninteresting. Nothing ever happens and nothing ever goes anywhere. To my mind they just seem like beta-blocker music on a pleasant Sunday afternoon walk.

And when I said there were similarities in the quieter moments, I was just being nice. So there.

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 04:28
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Just to clear this up: I don't dislike the Flower Kings, they just leave me completely cold. I object strongly to them being recommended as some sort of Yes replacement, that was and is the reason nof my post.

I have every studio TFK CD in standing on my shelf, and I have made every effort to find something of interest me there. I must have listened to each CD 8 to 10 times, but I find them sensationally uninteresting. Nothing ever happens and nothing ever goes anywhere. To my mind they just seem like beta-blocker music on a pleasant Sunday afternoon walk.

And when I said there were similarities in the quieter moments, I was just being nice. So there.


Why do you keep torturing your self by buying every FK's cds?Confused There must be someting good in their music that make you buy their cds again and again.

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 04:36
My pence: I have attempted to listen to FK  but they have failed to catch my attention. It may be my fault probably it wasn't the right moment, but basing on what I have heard I don't see any connection with Yes. Of course I haven't listened to them enough to say if that's true or not.




-------------
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 06:03
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I have every studio TFK CD in standing on my shelf, and I have made every effort to find something of interest me there. I must have listened to each CD 8 to 10 times, but I find them sensationally uninteresting. Nothing ever happens and nothing ever goes anywhere. To my mind they just seem like beta-blocker music on a pleasant Sunday afternoon walk.

So, please let me clarify this........

You bought a Flower Kings album at some point in the past, listened to it 8 to 10 times and decided that they were "sensationally uninteresting" and that "nothing ever goes anywhere" and that they leave you "completely cold".

That's fair enough - I've bought CDs by bands and had the same experience.........

........the difference being that you repeated this process another 9 times Confused Wacko

Nurse!! - the screens!!!

Wink

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 06:07
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

My pence: I have attempted to listen to FK  but they have failed to catch my attention. It may be my fault probably it wasn't the right moment, but basing on what I have heard I don't see any connection with Yes. Of course I haven't listened to them enough to say if that's true or not.

This is reasonable comment..

However, you concede that you "haven't listened to them enough to say if that's true or not".

I, on the other hand, have listened to all of their albums many, many times over the past 10 or 15 years so can state with more authority that they do actually have some sonic and spiritual connections with Yes.

Wink

Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 08:16
I was a bit flush at the time and got the whole batch in one swoop.

Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 08:23
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

My pence: I have attempted to listen to FK  but they have failed to catch my attention. It may be my fault probably it wasn't the right moment, but basing on what I have heard I don't see any connection with Yes. Of course I haven't listened to them enough to say if that's true or not.


same situation here ...

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 09:11
Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:

I would like to ask you which are in your opinion the best current bands that make music with a strong vocal and instrumental harmonic side like the classic Yes. I'll give you an example: I just finished listening to Moon Safari's Lover's End: beautiful record and very good vocally, but a bit "superficial" as far as the instrumental development is concerned. Do you know of any group with similar vocal harmonies and deeper musical content?

Roberto

Roberto,

Based on what you are looking for - "music with a strong vocal and instrumental harmonic side like the classic Yes" - despite what some people are saying, I think this could be the sort of thing you are looking for:
http://%20www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwmY182NWFw&playnext=1&list=PLACBFD69286D765A6" rel="nofollow -
http://%20www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwmY182NWFw&playnext=1&list=PLACBFD69286D765A6" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwmY182NWFw&playnext=1&list=PLACBFD69286D765A6

That song, in my humble opinion, bears more than a passing resemblance to Yes.

Cheers

Nov

Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 09:22
I consider The Flower Kings  true successors (but not imitators) of Yes,
having such similarities as

-strong emphasis on melodic side
-strong vocal harmony
-virtuoso musicianship from guitarist and keyboardist
-complex rhythm section
-little touch of jazz and avantguarde  (here is the difference, TFK is on jazzier side,
 Yes have only one "jazzy" album - Relayer )


also Transatlantic is somewhat similar to Yes

p.s. Glass Hammer and Echolyn also have some similarities with Yes, but primarily influenced by other bands: ELP and Gentle Giant, respectively

Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 09:50
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván



Do you really wanna go there Iván? I mean, really man . . . . Ermm Nuke Head on wall

What, Os Mutantes AeoZ sounds quite a bit like Yes, though a hell of a lot better.


-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 09:55
Nov's Youtube link above illustrates my point perfectly, and I thank him for that:

The song starts and apart from some obligatory quieter parts in between and an uninspired solo here and there, it coasts along without anything really happening, no real dynamic anywhere.

Verse and chorus consist of about 2 chords each, and mainly it's just a succession of pretty but lame part followed by pretty and even lamer part, and repeat.

Where's any climax at all here, where's a build-up to anything at all?

We must be on completely different levels to one another; the example from that link, that's meant to showcase TFK's Yes-like qualities show, in my mind, precisely the way they don't cut it in the slightest.

Where the hell is any of the uplifting quality and dynamic that Anderson and co. manage to convey? Just friggin' nowhere! Does anyone really think that that song (and it's a typical example of any TFK tune, thank you again) shows any similarity to, for instance South Side of the Sky, Heart of the Sunrise, Starship Trooper, or even And You And I? I just don't hear it.

Oh, one more thing, I agree with the recommendation of Moon Safari, they're heading in the right direction, although the step from second to third album may indicate that they're taking a step away from the complexities inherant in Yes songs in their prime. Definitely worth keeping an eye on though, they're great!

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 10:44
Originally posted by awaken77 awaken77 wrote:

I consider The Flower Kings  true successors (but not imitators) of Yes,
having such similarities as

-strong emphasis on melodic side

Check


Quote -strong vocal harmony

Check


Quote -virtuoso musicianship from guitarist and keyboardist

Check


Quote -complex rhythm section

Check


Quote -little touch of jazz and avantguarde  (here is the difference, TFK is on jazzier side,
 Yes have only one "jazzy" album - Relayer )

Check


Very well put - and I can see from your forum name that you actually know what you are talking about.

Wink

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 22 2011 at 18:15
True successors to Yes?  Right now, it would be Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman.   I'm looking forward to what they may spring on us!!

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 02:02
Originally posted by awaken77 awaken77 wrote:

I consider The Flower Kings  true successors (but not imitators) of Yes,
having such similarities as

-strong emphasis on melodic side
-strong vocal harmony
-virtuoso musicianship from guitarist and keyboardist
-complex rhythm section
-little touch of jazz and avantguarde  (here is the difference, TFK is on jazzier side,
 Yes have only one "jazzy" album - Relayer )


also Transatlantic is somewhat similar to Yes

p.s. Glass Hammer and Echolyn also have some similarities with Yes, but primarily influenced by other bands: ELP and Gentle Giant, respectively


 
The problem is this is too general and vague, it could apply to so many bands. I also notice that only the first two aspects touch upon compositional elements.  What stood out in Yes or Genesis's work is not such things but a distinct compositional signature.  Would welcome examples of how TFK's music relates to Yes in that light.  I am not saying it has to, and I'd rather it doesn't because there is no need really to fawn over one band, no matter how great they are.

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 05:01
Here's a band trying to sound like Yes, but i don't think they are the true successor of Yes, Mostly similar in the vocal department, looks like Jon Anderson struggling to hit the high note!

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 05:26
Surely they are not Pinch

-------------
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 12:48
Personally I think Fly from here is the best album Yes has made since Drama...

-------------
"You want me to play what, Robert?"

Posted By: roberto59
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 13:18
Sorry El Bothy, but it is just because of "Fly from here" that I started longing for the old times Yes spirit (or even for the more recent ones, "Keys to Ascension" for instance).

Pardon me, but I did not like Yeggles music at the "Drama" time nor do I like it now: honestly I was expecting something more than some recycled stuff.

(Sorry, I am sad about the decadence of my all time favourite band).


Thanks however for contributing.

Roberto

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 16:27
If "Fly From Here"  has made you realize how special the "Keys" sessions were, then it has done you a great service.
 
That said, I'd listen to "Fly From Here" over "Drama" most days.


-------------

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 18:20
Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:

Sorry El Bothy, but it is just because of "Fly from here" that I started longing for the old times Yes spirit (or even for the more recent ones, "Keys to Ascension" for instance).

Pardon me, but I did not like Yeggles music at the "Drama" time nor do I like it now: honestly I was expecting something more than some recycled stuff.

(Sorry, I am sad about the decadence of my all time favourite band).


Thanks however for contributing.

Roberto

So, have you checked out my links then Roberto?

Or shall I get me coat? Wink

Smile

Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 06:28
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Personally I think Fly from here is the best album Yes has made since Drama...
I would tend to agree.
 
Can you have a successor to a band that's still going?

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 06:29
Depends on where it's going.

-------------
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 11:03
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Personally I think Fly from here is the best album Yes has made since Drama...

I completely agree

Iván


-------------
            

Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 11:31
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Personally I think Fly from here is the best album Yes has made since Drama...

I completely agree

Iván

You are not keen on Anderson's voice, so this is not an entirely impartial opinion.

I am VERY keen on his voice, so my entirely biased opinion is thatt his is the best they have done since Magnification. It's a good enough LP, but not in any sense a classic.


-------------
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

Posted By: mikehunt42
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 16:38
Guys,
All praise to the encyclopaedic knowledge and musical insight of the majority of contributions to this thread. I've just fallen across this site and thread by accident while researching Yes European tour dates this autumn and delighted to hear that  more than 40 years after I first discovered that magical sound of Yes in the early days of "Harold Land" the spirit lives on. Intrtigued by your debates, I'm really  inspired to rekindle my love for this genre of music, and given there isn't going to be another "Yours is no disgrace", Roundabout", or "Heart of the Sunrise" any time soon from my chronological peers, which contempories should I be following? TFK look like the popular choice, but which album?(6 listed on my fav download site). Along with my long-time  heros (Yes), I've always held a soft spot for the classical inspiration of Godfrey's Enid, while Gentle Giant's jazz-infused innovations and Genesis/'Banks  majesterial chord progressions never failed to lift the hairs on my spine. More recently, Gazpacho's Atropos also touched an evocative nerve after a lenghty familairisation period (about 4 weeks of repetetive dosage). So, guidance would be gratefully received, along with any music sites which could push these great sounds into my conscience so I don't need to rely on good luck to know that the spirit of great music survives despite the omnipotence of BBC radio 1 (or Radio DJ in my adopted Italy) 
Thanks in advance, Michael

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 18:13
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Personally I think Fly from here is the best album Yes has made since Drama...

I completely agree

Iván

You are not keen on Anderson's voice, so this is not an entirely impartial opinion.

I am VERY keen on his voice, so my entirely biased opinion is thatt his is the best they have done since Magnification. It's a good enough LP, but not in any sense a classic.
It kind of reminds me of Chris resurrecting The Syn with Syndestructible.  It's ok but it completely veers away from  the band's history and style.  The Keys releases are the Yes masterpieces of this century, although Magnification and The Ladder were both good as well.
And I'm middle of the road on Jon's voice.

-------------

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 20:22
Originally posted by mikehunt42 mikehunt42 wrote:

Guys,
All praise to the encyclopaedic knowledge and musical insight of the majority of contributions to this thread. I've just fallen across this site and thread by accident while researching Yes European tour dates this autumn and delighted to hear that  more than 40 years after I first discovered that magical sound of Yes in the early days of "Harold Land" the spirit lives on. Intrtigued by your debates, I'm really  inspired to rekindle my love for this genre of music, and given there isn't going to be another "Yours is no disgrace", Roundabout", or "Heart of the Sunrise" any time soon from my chronological peers, which contempories should I be following? TFK look like the popular choice, but which album?(6 listed on my fav download site). Along with my long-time  heros (Yes), I've always held a soft spot for the classical inspiration of Godfrey's Enid, while Gentle Giant's jazz-infused innovations and Genesis/'Banks  majesterial chord progressions never failed to lift the hairs on my spine. More recently, Gazpacho's Atropos also touched an evocative nerve after a lenghty familairisation period (about 4 weeks of repetetive dosage). So, guidance would be gratefully received, along with any music sites which could push these great sounds into my conscience so I don't need to rely on good luck to know that the spirit of great music survives despite the omnipotence of BBC radio 1 (or Radio DJ in my adopted Italy) 
Thanks in advance, Michael


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHgzivkG0M0" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHgzivkG0M0

Wink

Posted By: tupan
Date Posted: August 24 2011 at 21:15
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván



Do you really wanna go there Iván? I mean, really man . . . . Ermm Nuke Head on wall

What, Os Mutantes AeoZ sounds quite a bit like Yes, though a hell of a lot better.


Only one album don't make Os Mutantes an Yes clone!


-------------
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 25 2011 at 09:42
Calling any of those bands Yes clones is quite disrespecful of what they have accomplished, not to mention in most of the cases cited highly inaccurate.

-------------

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 26 2011 at 23:07
Originally posted by mikehunt42 mikehunt42 wrote:

Guys,
All praise to the encyclopaedic knowledge and musical insight of the majority of contributions to this thread. I've just fallen across this site and thread by accident while researching Yes European tour dates this autumn and delighted to hear that  more than 40 years after I first discovered that magical sound of Yes in the early days of "Harold Land" the spirit lives on. Intrtigued by your debates, I'm really  inspired to rekindle my love for this genre of music, and given there isn't going to be another "Yours is no disgrace", Roundabout", or "Heart of the Sunrise" any time soon from my chronological peers, which contempories should I be following? TFK look like the popular choice, but which album?(6 listed on my fav download site). Along with my long-time  heros (Yes), I've always held a soft spot for the classical inspiration of Godfrey's Enid, while Gentle Giant's jazz-infused innovations and Genesis/'Banks  majesterial chord progressions never failed to lift the hairs on my spine. More recently, Gazpacho's Atropos also touched an evocative nerve after a lenghty familairisation period (about 4 weeks of repetetive dosage). So, guidance would be gratefully received, along with any music sites which could push these great sounds into my conscience so I don't need to rely on good luck to know that the spirit of great music survives despite the omnipotence of BBC radio 1 (or Radio DJ in my adopted Italy) 
Thanks in advance, Michael

Welcome aboard, Michael!!  The search for "another Yes" has consumed my life since, oh, 1973 or so... I very much enjoyed Flash and Starcastle as being more than copycat clones, please give them a listen.  Their early albums tend to be better than later efforts.

A band with a Yes-flavor would tend to have the following elements:

a) lead vocalist who sings in contra-tenor vocal range, rather rare.  

b) bandmates who can sing harmony in contra-tenor/tenor/falsetto/baritone ranges, while playing their instruments....extremely rare! 

c) musical virtuosity throughout, see above.  

d) emphasis upon keyboards, driving bass (helps if it is a Rickenbacker) and speed/coordination. 

A rare mix of talents!  Many have tried....I've written my own embarrassing "Yes clone" music, it's fun as hell and gives a person a real appreciation for the talent level in that band!! 

The version of "Siberian Khatru" by tribute studio band Stanley Snail is one of my own personal Yes "clones" (Mike Keneally on guitar AND vocals is just amazing!!)  Seek that out, the YouTube posting was removed.  Darn it! 

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 00:59
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván



Do you really wanna go there Iván? I mean, really man . . . . Ermm Nuke Head on wall

Never said Mutantes were clones, some of this bands are clones, others followed the lead of Yes.

Mutantes are influenced by Yes as Flower Kings or Glass Hammer IMO, and I don't have a problem to say a band is a clone IMO, as I always said about Starcastle.




-------------
            

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 01:05
Never argue with a lawyer.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 01:20
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Never argue with a lawyer.

The problem is not the discussion, everybody is entitled to their opinions, CCVP used emoticons implying what I said is absurd, but he gave no arguments at all, I am very careful with what I say

As a fact, the own members of Mutantes admit a STRONG  Yes influence:

Quote  From the Jardim Eletrico on, they began to get a little more "progressive" (I spoke with both Sergio and Arnaldo in 1993 and they admitted lots of influence from Yes  at that time), not losing their anarchic spirit, almost always well-humoured. After the release of Mutantes e seus Cometas no Pais do Bauretz, in 1972, Rita Lee left the group. Then, the band records the album "O A e o Z", which their label considered too much uncommercial for the time. It was finally released in 1992, when they begun to edit the band's work on CD. O A e o Z is such a  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes -like, acid-oriented album, very good but a little different from the first albums. Then, after this recording, there was a general split, and Sergio Dias re-organized the band, with other components, and recorded an album called Tudo Foi Feito Pelo Sol in 1974. Now this is a *very* good album, in the "traditional" progressive style, yet a little  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes -oriented, with very good instrumentation, although yet a little far from the initial band's sound, which cannot be labeled. I recommend Mutantes andMutantes e seus Cometas no Pais do Bauretz for a first-time listen). -- Gabriel Costa

CCVP I don't use emoticons to imply other members say absurd things, I use quotes and arguments to support what I say....In this case according to Gabriel Costa in  http://www.gepr.net/mofram.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.gepr.net/mofram.html  two members of the band admit the Yes influence........Apart from my opinion, I tend to believe what they say being who they are .

Iván


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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 01:36
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Never argue with a lawyer.

The problem is not the discussion, everybody is entitled to their opinions, CCVP used emoticons implying what I said is absurd, but he gave no arguments at all.

 
lol, I was just fooling because I have lawyer friends. LOL

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 01:41
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Never argue with a lawyer.

The problem is not the discussion, everybody is entitled to their opinions, CCVP used emoticons implying what I said is absurd, but he gave no arguments at all.

 
lol, I was just fooling because I have lawyer friends. LOL

I'm more careful, I only have a couple lawyer friends . LOL

Iván


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 01:47
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Calling any of those bands Yes clones is quite disrespecful of what they have accomplished, not to mention in most of the cases cited highly inaccurate.


Not calling all the bands I mention Clones, apart from Starcastle, Exodus, partially Cathedral and maybe one more, the rest are only highly influenced bands.

Saying Glass Hammer or Mutantes are clones, would be absurd, but both have a clear Yes sound and influence.

Cheers

Iván


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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 03:46
Within my limited knowledge, the two recent albums which sound most like Yes are Glass Hammer's If and Wobbler's Rites At Dawn, any fan of old Yes should love these unless he/she's the kind of person who dismisses them as being just clones. Both are excellent in my opinion and I don't mind the obvious replication of the Yes sound. Wobbler's RAD sounds more like period Close To The Edge / Fragile / Relayer while Glass Hammer's If sounds more modern.
 
Another album which sounds quite similar to Yes (but different at the same time) is Cathedral's Stained Glass Stories although since it's quite old and was a sole album (except for the much later reunion album) they can not be considered "successors".
 
Magnification was a better album than Fly From Here IMO.
 
 

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 03:50
Originally posted by mikehunt42 mikehunt42 wrote:

So, guidance would be gratefully received, along with any music sites which could push these great sounds into my conscience so I don't need to rely on good luck to know that the spirit of great music survives despite the omnipotence of BBC radio 1 (or Radio DJ in my adopted Italy) 
Thanks in advance, Michael
You need to look no further than PA for guidance, you have so much information here and indeed quite some of these guys are living prog encyclopedias! 

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:25
I agree pretty much with Ivan's assessment, that so many bands show influence from Yes, including The Flower Kings.  I would also consider bands like Starcastle as clones, as the similarity in the sound is too close for it to be coincidental (my basis for considering Fish-era Marillion to be a Genesis clone as well).  I would also say that World Trade was a Yes clone, although they chose the simpler sound of 90125 to emulate.
 
Flash is in a different category, as Peter Banks and Tony Kaye were member of that group, so the band would naturally have a similar sound to early Yes.
 
As for Wobbler, I think that their latest album does at times sound like they were trying to sound like Yes, but at this point it is only one of their three albums.  Unless they continue with this, I would consider "Rites At Dawn" as more of a Yes tribute than a clone.  They put too much of their own sound into it to be a pure clone.


-------------
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:42
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Calling any of those bands Yes clones is quite disrespecful of what they have accomplished, not to mention in most of the cases cited highly inaccurate.


Not calling all the bands I mention Clones, apart from Starcastle, Exodus, partially Cathedral and maybe one more, the rest are only highly influenced bands.

Saying Glass Hammer or Mutantes are clones, would be absurd, but both have a clear Yes sound and influence.

Cheers

Iván
Saying that Starcastle is a Yes clone is just as ridiculous.  Where is the dominant bass playing rifffs like a lead?   Where is the guitar virtuoso enchanted with the tonal qualities of various instruments?  Where is the dedication to avoiding anything poppish?  Where is the showcasing of the talents of each band member?  Where are the serious but incomprehensible lyrics?  Starcastle has very little to remind of us Yes, and their most striking similarity is mostly an illusion.  Starcastle has extremely uplifting and positive songs.  Yes has a reputation for the same, but when you pay attention, you begin to realize that that reputation is not that accurate.

-------------

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:46
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

 
Flash is in a different category, as Peter Banks and Tony Kaye were member of that group, so the band would naturally have a similar sound to early Yes.
 
What is really surprising is that Flash does NOT have a similar sound to early Yes, for the most part.  I could imagine Dreams of Heaven being included on The Yes Album if Peter had stayed, but other than that the only real similarity is some of Peter's noodling solos.

-------------

Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:47
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by yanch yanch wrote:


As a long time Yes fan too, I've noticed that there are far, far fewer bands that have sounds in the Yes vein as opposed to bands who have emulated the classic Genesis style. A tribute I think to how talented Yes were at their peak.

A band has fewer clones or followers not because more talented, but because they caused a lesser impact.

I'm sure that Yes is among the most respected bands in UK and USA, but in other countries Genesis is far more accepted, and don't tell me that songs like Fountain of Salmacis, Supper's Ready ( with so many different changes and moods), Can Utility and the Coastliners ,etc are easier music.

In Italy and Sweden for example, Genesis had far more impact, in Germany and Japan, ELP had more followers because they caused a greater impact.

Now Yes had hundreds of followers and clones like 

  1. Starcastle, 
  2. Abbhama (Indonesia), 
  3. Druid, 
  4. Welcome (Switzerland), 
  5. Atlantide (France)
  6. Saens (France)
  7. Glass Hammer
  8. Flower Kings
  9. Lift (USA)
  10. Cathedral
  11. Cherry Five
  12. Exodus (Known as the Polish Yes)
  13. Blue Shift
  14. Flash
  15. Relayer
  16. Banzai
  17. Legacy
  18. Alaska
  19. Mutantes
  20. Big Picture
Just to mention a few

Iván



Do you really wanna go there Iván? I mean, really man . . . . Ermm Nuke Head on wall

Never said Mutantes were clones, some of this bands are clones, others followed the lead of Yes.

Mutantes are influenced by Yes as Flower Kings or Glass Hammer IMO, and I don't have a problem to say a band is a clone IMO, as I always said about Starcastle.



Well, OK, but it wasn't as obvious as many of those listed here AND they kept being original. For example, I love Glass Hammer to death, but they are not a very original band since some melody lines from each of their album could be found in the works of those who influeced them "ipsis literis", what does not happens with Mutantes.




-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 11:35
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 
Well, OK, but it wasn't as obvious as many of those listed here AND they kept being original. For example, I love Glass Hammer to death, but they are not a very original band since some melody lines from each of their album could be found in the works of those who influeced them "ipsis literis", what does not happens with Mutantes.



True, and is also well known that Mutantes changed dramatically when Rita Lee left (They lost that Beatles influence) so specially since O 'A' E O 'Z' the sound is very close to Yes,to the point that in some parts of "A" e o "Z" i feel as if was listening some instrumental changes from "Tales"  but they still keep some of their mysterious Psych spirit.

My point is that for me is absurd to say Genesis had a lot of followers and clones while there are very few bands that have the Yes sound. It's evident that Pink Floyd, Yes, ELP and Genesis had all a lot of followers and a few clones, because all were influential bands.

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Saying that Starcastle is a Yes clone is just as ridiculous.  Where is the dominant bass playing rifffs like a lead?   Where is the guitar virtuoso enchanted with the tonal qualities of various instruments?  Where is the dedication to avoiding anything poppish?  Where is the showcasing of the talents of each band member?  Where are the serious but incomprehensible lyrics?  Starcastle has very little to remind of us Yes, and their most striking similarity is mostly an illusion.  Starcastle has extremely uplifting and positive songs.  Yes has a reputation for the same, but when you pay attention, you begin to realize that that reputation is not that accurate.


Oh please GOM, few people areas virtuoso as Steve Howe, and honestly, II find a lot of lead by the bass, now the showcasing of the talents of  their members depends on the talents of Starcastle members, they may have different lyrics (few are hallucinated enough to write the kind of absurd lyrics Jon does), but you listen the band and you say hey, this guys are trying as hard as they can to be Yes   

It's obvious that in songs as Lady of the lake, they are recreating Jon's voice, the second voice by Squire, the keyboard style of Wakeman, and the guitar riffs of Howe without the same talent.

Just listen  http://www.progarchives.com/mp3.asp?id=757" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/mp3.asp?id=757  

Or watch:


Even worst:



They even have a Wakeman in their cast. LOL 

And that's not an illusion, it's obvious they are cloning Yes, if they succeed, it0's another issue.

Iván
  


-------------
            

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 18:54
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Saying that Starcastle is a Yes clone is just as ridiculous.  Where is the dominant bass playing rifffs like a lead?   Where is the guitar virtuoso enchanted with the tonal qualities of various instruments?  Where is the dedication to avoiding anything poppish?  Where is the showcasing of the talents of each band member?  Where are the serious but incomprehensible lyrics?  Starcastle has very little to remind of us Yes, and their most striking similarity is mostly an illusion.  Starcastle has extremely uplifting and positive songs.  Yes has a reputation for the same, but when you pay attention, you begin to realize that that reputation is not that accurate.
Oh please GOM, few people areas virtuoso as Steve Howe, and honestly, II find a lot of lead by the bass, now the showcasing of the talents of  their members depends on the talents of Starcastle members, they may have different lyrics (few are hallucinated enough to write the kind of absurd lyrics Jon does), but you listen the band and you say hey, this guys are trying as hard as they can to be Yes   

It's obvious that in songs as Lady of the lake, they are recreating Jon's voice, the second voice by Squire, the keyboard style of Wakeman, and the guitar riffs of Howe without the same talent.

Just listen  http://www.progarchives.com/mp3.asp?id=757" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/mp3.asp?id=757  

Or watch:


Even worst:



They even have a Wakeman in their cast. LOL 

And that's not an illusion, it's obvious they are cloning Yes, if they succeed, it0's another issue.

Iván
  
So what you are sayihng is that they have none of Yes's distinguishing characteristics, but since they obviously want them they must be Yes clones?  Let's deal in facts, not fantasies please.

-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 27 2011 at 20:53
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

So what you are sayihng is that they have none of Yes's distinguishing characteristics, but since they obviously want them they must be Yes clones?  .

No, as I said:

  1. The vocal work is similar to Yes (Not only the Anderson clone, but also the choirs in the vein of Squire)
  2. The guitarist is not Steve Howe, but does a great job simulating his interplay with the band, surely not ijn the same level during the solos, but that's not the point
  3. Oliver Wakeman (As Herb Schildt )  does an outstanding job impersonating Rick Wakeman
  4. Gary Strater takes the lead with his bass as Squire did
But most important The band sounds like Yes.

You don't need to be a virtuoso to sound as a determined band, I seen pub bands playing Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd (I seen a Peruvian Tribute band called Big Pink sounding extremely close to Pink Floyd and more than one band playing Yes or Genesis songs in small places with great performances), you only need to sound like them despite your technique.

So please, don't tell me you need to have a Squire, a Howe and a Wakeman to clone Yes, you only need musicians who are able read a tab and are to play with some ability.

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

   Let's deal in facts, not fantasies please.

I always deal wit facts, I posted complete songs andthe effect is incredibly similar

Other sites agree with me:

Quote Proggnosis
 USAStarcastle
Genre-SubGenre-Style: http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - PROGRESSIVE ROCK (Symphonic Artist Web Site: http://www.starcastlemusic.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.starcastlemusic.com/
If you like this artist - you might like: http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Aelian  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Cherry Five  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Druid  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Exodus  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Grandbell  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Jon Anderson  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Steve Tassler  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Welcome  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - Yes  -  http://www.proggnosis.com/PGArtist.asp?AID=269" rel="nofollow - You & I

Or

GEPR

Quote

A  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  clone. I bought their self-titled album on the recommendation of  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes -fans, but I never expected them to sound this much like  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes . Perhaps a bit more new-age flavored, hence the common nickname, " http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes -lite."

_______________________________________________________________________
A six-piece band. The only one I have is the first, self-titled album. They sound quite a bit like  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes , and have very vocal music. The lyrics also are reminiscent of  http://www.gepr.net/am.html#JONANDERSON" rel="nofollow - Jon Anderson . The lineup consists of two guitars, bass, organ/synth, drums, and vocals. The lead vocalist sounds a bit like  http://www.gepr.net/st.html#CHRISSQUIRE" rel="nofollow - Chris Squire . If you're really into  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes , then you have to check the first album out.
_______________________________________________________________
They started out as a pretty faithful  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  clone, but had, by their third album, Citadel, begun to develop some of their own unique idiosyncracies. None of their albums are bad, but the first one is very derivative for the most part.
___________________________________________________________________
While sounding at first listening like a  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  clone, careful listening will reveal these musicians were NOT  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  wannabees, and are very talented players in their own right. Comprised of two guitars, keyboards, bass, drums and a lead singer with an apparent bass-heavy sound due to bassist Gary Strater's melodic approach. Substantial poly-rhythymic and poly-chordal writing. Exceptional clarity of tone with all instruments, and a tremendous resource for those musicians studying this style of music. Well worth locating usable copies of [the first] four albums. -- Andrew Woodard
________________________________________________________________________
I know it's been said before, but they're the ultimate  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  clone. The first album and Citadel even attempt to copy Roger Dean's distinctive cover art style. The only album I have is Fountains Of Light. Not original for a second. Keyboards are definitely patterned after  http://www.gepr.net/w.html#WAKEMANRICK" rel="nofollow - Rick Wakeman , with ascending  http://www.gepr.net/proginst.html#MINIMOOG" rel="nofollow - Moog  runs a la "And You And I" (to which "Portraits" bears more than a passing resemblance). The inclusion of two guitarists presumably makes up for the lack of anyone as talented as Steve Howe. The singer, while he doesn't have  http://www.gepr.net/am.html#JONANDERSON" rel="nofollow - Anderson 's range, is clearly trying to impersonate his phrasing (too many examples to give, but "True To The Light" and "Portraits" are the best ones). Only if you've run out of  http://www.gepr.net/y.html#YES" rel="nofollow - Yes  albums to collect and don't give a damn about originality. -- Mike Ohman
________________________________________________________________

http://www.gepr.net/stfram.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.gepr.net/stfram.html

All except one of five contributors of GEPR call them CLONES, except Andrew Woodward, who as I said claims that the late Gary Stratter has a bass melodic approach.

You can go to almost any Prog site and you will read the word clone besuide the name Starcastle

Quote Back in the 70’s along with other major league acts Yes had more than their fair share of imitators. The band that came closer than anyone was America’s Starcastle. Their sound dominated by Chris Squire influenced bass melodies and Jon Anderson like rich harmonies graced four album releases from 1976 to 1978.

http://www.dprp.net/reviews/200729.php#starcastle" rel="nofollow - http://www.dprp.net/reviews/200729.php#starcastle

Seems you are the only one that doesn't notice the Melodic bass 0of Stratter and the FACT that this guys are clones or extremely close to this status.

So you insist this is fantasy and that we all are wrong and you are right?

Iván 


-------------
            

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 10:00
By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.
(and why are you so quick to go to an argumentum ad populum?  Surely they taught you some logic in law school.)

-------------

Posted By: wjohnd
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 11:18
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

So please, don't tell me you need to have a Squire, a Howe and a Wakeman to clone Yes, you only need musicians who are able read a tab and are to play with some ability.

Maybe best to describe Starcastle as a Xerox of Yes 
or the kind of drawing you get when you use tracing paper,,,
it reminds you of the original, but lacks originality and any variation from the original is more likely to be through the loss of detail/ texture rather than an artistic choice or additional flourish. 
 
Wink

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 11:48
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.
(and why are you so quick to go to an argumentum ad populum?  Surely they taught you some logic in law school.)

1.- Genesis and Moody Blues? They have nothing in common, except that both are musicians, even during their first album, Genesis was close to the early Bee Gees and then they did elaborate Prog music that The Mood y Blues never dreamed of. Plus nobody sane will compare the Moody Blues with Genesis, they two different styles and genres, and more important, they never sounded remotely similar.

2.- I only support what I already believe with the opinions of people and sites dedicated to Progressive Rock, you are claiming everybody is wrong except you. I don't believe that Starcastle are clones of Yes because people believe they are...I believe Starcastle are Yes clones because they sound incredibly similar to Yes and apparently experts and people from the Progressive Rock community agrees with this. 

But if you want to believe Starcastle is the most original band in the world and that the singer doesn't sound like Jon Anderson and the bass Riffs follow the Chris Squire style and more important  their songs are similar to the ones by Yes (with less brilliance of course), go on, it's your problem.

Iván 


-------------
            

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 13:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.

1.- Genesis and Moody Blues? They have nothing in common,
 
LOL.   I may not have made my point to you, but I trust that other people caught that.


-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 15:17
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.

1.- Genesis and Moody Blues? They have nothing in common,
 
LOL.   I may not have made my point to you, but I trust that other people caught that.

Genesis never imitated The Moody Blues

Sttarcastle imitates the sound of Yes clearly

You make no point, there's nothing in common....The Reductio ad Absurdum is the worst fallacy of all. Wink

Iván


-------------
            

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 28 2011 at 16:24
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.

1.- Genesis and Moody Blues? They have nothing in common,
 
LOL.   I may not have made my point to you, but I trust that other people caught that.

Genesis never imitated The Moody Blues

Sttarcastle imitates the sound of Yes clearly

You make no point, there's nothing in common....The Reductio ad Absurdum is the worst fallacy of all. Wink

Iván

I knew Starcastle, and I tend to agree with Brother Ivan when he says "Starcastle imitates the sound of Yes clearly".  

The band I knew were very much influenced by Yes, and they followed the "Yes formula" very closely (driving Rickenbacker bass, contra-tenor vocalist, classically-trained keyboardist, talented guitarists and vocal harmonies).  

Gary Strater even looked hauntingly like a young Chris Squire onstage!  It was eerie.   

However, they also were not content to sit back; they COULD have covered Yes tunes very close to perfection, but I never even heard them do this in practice or onstage.  Most of their live material when I knew them (months before "Lady of the Lake" was cut) was dead-ringer covers of songs by the Stones etc. 

A very talented band with great promise, but also with a clear goal of taking on the Brits from this side of the pond (they wanted to be the American "Yes" if you will).  Lovely lads, they gave it their best shot.  I dearly miss Gary Strater, RIP.  He was good enough that he easily could have subbed for Squire back then.

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 29 2011 at 12:45
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

By your logic, we could say that Genesis is a Moody Blues clone fronted by an eccentric singer.

1.- Genesis and Moody Blues? They have nothing in common,
 
LOL.   I may not have made my point to you, but I trust that other people caught that.

Genesis never imitated The Moody Blues
Surely somebody as knowledgeable about Genesis as yourself remembers those early reviews comparing Genesis to The Moodies.  And wasn't that the point of your argument, that reviewers are never wrong?  LOL.

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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 29 2011 at 15:06
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Surely somebody as knowledgeable about Genesis as yourself remembers those early reviews comparing Genesis to The Moodies.  And wasn't that the point of your argument, that reviewers are never wrong?  LOL.

Again Reductio ad absurduum:

1.- Ever Progressive Rock site in the world says Starcastle are clones of Yes or close to that
2.- All articles I read say that they are at least imitators
3.- 90% oif the reviewrs say thatthey are clones

But most important , I believe they are clones of Yes

On the other hand

Cocensus is not the same as a review, don't be a wise a$$

You imply that because your knowledge is infinite it's all imagination and the whole Prog listening world is wrong

Very arrogant to say the less.

Iván

Never said reviews can't be wrong, I read really stupid reviews, but whoever said that Genesis sounded like the Moody Blues  is wrong, because appart from everybody,. the own producer Jonathan King said that he made Genesis souund like the Bee Gees, because he was a fan of the Bee Gees.}


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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 29 2011 at 15:11
Argumentum ad populum.  You imply that 100,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong.  Tell it to the architects of the Maginot line.  And I see you don't deny that there were early reviews linking The Moodies to Genesis.  How nice of you to be factually honest.   The point here is that when I apply the same  rules to Genesis that the Genesis fanboy has applied to Yes, suddenly you have a conniption.  Perhaps Starcastle is not quite the clone that you think they are?  Perhaps you have strayed out of the area of your expertise?
(and I'd be a fool to imply that you are not extremely knowledgeable re: Genesis.)

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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 29 2011 at 15:37
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Argumentum ad populum.  You imply that 100,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong.  Tell it to the architects of the Maginot line.  And I see you don't deny that there were early reviews linking The Moodies to Genesis.  How nice of you to be factually honest.   The point here is that when I apply the same  rules to Genesis that the Genesis fanboy has applied to Yes, suddenly you have a conniption.  Perhaps Starcastle is not quite the clone that you think they are?  Perhaps you have strayed out of the area of your expertise?
(and I'd be a fool to imply that you are not extremely knowledgeable re: Genesis.)

I don't remember early reviews about Genesis being a Moody Blues clone, maybe beacuse I started listing Prog in 1976 when I was 12 and by thet opont Genesis had a unique sound that couldn't be comnpared with anybody or ,maybe because this reviews never existed.

Just one mre thing, some reviews (if they ever existed), are not the same that the almost unanimous concensus about a musical style (not talking about the Maginot line or the Chinese Wall,)..

But leave it there, the whole world is wrong and you are right Starcastle is the more original band in the universe, they don't sound nothing at all  like Yes.

For what it matters.

Iván.




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Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: August 29 2011 at 15:42
Originally posted by roberto59 roberto59 wrote:

Dear All,

this is my first post here, so forgive any mistake I may make as a newcomer.

I have been a long time YES fan and as many others I am highly disappointed by the musical course the band has taken after splitting from Jon and Rick.

I would like to ask you which are in your opinion the best current bands that make music with a strong vocal and instrumental harmonic side like the classic Yes. I'll give you an example: I just finished listening to Moon Safari's Lover's End: beautiful record and very good vocally, but a bit "superficial" as far as the instrumental development is concerned. Do you know of any group with similar vocal harmonies and deeper musical content?

Thanks to all who will take some time to reply!

BR

Roberto

Blomljud is more complex and all around better than Lover's End (which is still a great album), so I'd give that a listen if you haven't yet.  And I think Yes' sound is hard to imitate without copying them (mostly the vocals), but as stated, there are some "clones" which aren't all bad.


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