Nearfest cancelled
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Gigs, Tours and Festivals
Forum Description: Announce (shows, dates and more) and discuss progressive events and bands touring (featured in home and artist page)
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Topic: Nearfest cancelled
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Subject: Nearfest cancelled
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 01:12
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Nearfest, unfortunately has been cancelled. Here is the official word: NEARFEST 2011 CANCELED March 25, 2011 It is our sad duty to inform you that 2011 edition of the North East Art Rock Festival has been canceled due to insufficient ticket sales. This unfortunate result is likely the product of lower-than-expected interest in a transitional lineup of talented international acts combined with a slow-to-rebound U.S. economy. Despite utilizing our well-established avenues of communication and traditional revenue streams, including the annual Patron Program, it has become apparent to the five of us that ceasing operation of NEARfest 2011 is truly the only recourse. Though enthusiasm for an experimental new direction was not suitably obtained, we do greatly thank those of you that had already purchased tickets for your continued support. Rest assured that all tickets purchases will be refunded in full, including the donation portion of any Patron ticket. If any Patron would like to retain their donation status with the festival to help offset any cancellation fees we may incur, please contact Jim Robinson ( mailto:[email protected]" rel="nofollow - [email protected] ) privately by email. For those who have already booked airline travel, we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and hope that you can get the most value out of any non-refundable tickets. All hotel and car rental reservations should be well outside their respective penalty windows. We also apologize to the bands that were scheduled to play in 2011. We always look forward to presenting an exciting and diverse lineup of wonderful bands from around the world, and that includes getting to know some of them personally. We are truly sorry that we cannot have you grace our stage this year. Please note that no decisions have been made regarding the long-term future of the festival. Thank you for your understanding and support. Sincerely,
Ray Loboda, Operations Coordinator |
Replies:
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 01:45
Man if this fest can"t make it in the States which ones can? Sign of the times I guess. 
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Evolutionary Sleeper
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 01:58
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Wow. That's too bad.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 02:02
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I'll repeat what I said in the other thread.
Anyway, that is a shame. Though this year the lineup was pretty terrible, especially compared to years past. But I hope it doesn't doom the entire thing. Its so close to me! ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 04:14
Feels like the death of prog has finally happened despite all the rumours down the years to the contrary. RIP.
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 06:40
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Never been to NEARFest, but its reputation speaks for it, so this is a bit of a surprise. Plenty of prog festivals in debt-stricken Europe are doing well (closer to me, Gouveia Art Rock sold-out in days, but I'm gessing it is a much smaller venue than NEARFest). How many seats were they trying to sell and at what prices? ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 07:39
| This is a sad situation. In the past 2 weeks I have seen individuals employed to hold up closing business signs in my area. Gas prices are eating us alive. And as usual those gas prices go skyrocketing a few months before summer. The same pattern occurs every year. It's now more difficult for a person with average income to take their kids to the shore without sacrificing the important items on the shopping list at the supermarket. On a personal level, I won't care or indulge in activities that the average person is deprived of due to the burden of gas prices.. I wouldn't give any American business a buffalo nickle for entertainment at the shore. I can think of ways to see the ocean without green backs in my pocket. This happens every summer and eventually people will just have to give up and hopefully if the shore business suffers enough, a message will be revealed to those behind the high jacking gas prices. The more business suffers, the less gas is purchased. Just a dream though I would love to see a turn of the cards. I would love to see more people riding bikes as a response to jacked up gas prices and a solution for practical survival. I hope to see the working middle class individual survive without spending more than a hundred dollars a month on gas. It's a shame that Nearfest has to cancel as a result of B.S. like this when other sources of entertainment (which are questionable), are as big as sliced bread. It's to be expected though when in the last decade or so you could hire GONG to play in your living room. LOL. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 07:50
Excellent point. If times are lean, you have to cut your clothes accordingly. I see that in other type of entertainment businesses over here in Europe too where we often get special deals which makes it affordable and/or the businesses scales back to just offer the core event. I have no idea why NEARfest was cancelled so I am speaking in general terms and as a reply to Kotro's post.
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Kotro wrote:Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 08:33
| who was lined up to play---in this economy you need lot's of bang for your buck---I would think you need one really big name---like Yes with Moraz ---LOL---- |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 09:12
http://www.nearfest.com/lineup.asp" rel="nofollow - Here was the line-up for Nearfest And for comparison, http://www.rosfest.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=127" rel="nofollow - the Rosfest line-up. Maybe this sad news will have some good in boosting the Ros show? |
Posted By: qscprog
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 09:13
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I have been to most Nearfest and I’m disappointed. I must admit though that I only decided to go this year at the last minute. Not to take anything from the bands performing but I though the line up was very poor for this type of festival. When I saw that Umphrey”s Mcgee was the headline act I was very surprised and decided not to go this year but as I said, I changed my mind at the last minute and bought tickets. Nearfest has a special place in my heart and I am very sad to hear this news. Chatting with Stan Whitaker in the lobby, talks and pictures with Anne Haslam, Roger Dean and the wonderful Mark Wilkinson, finally meeting Andy Latimer, seeing once in a life time performances by some of the Prog greats, the people, the CD’s, the list goes on and on. I hope that the Nearfest team swings back to the types of bands we have seen in the past. This is not to say that there should not be a few newer, avant/RIO or lesser known bands (GOD! does anybody remember the awesome Nexus or Cabezas de Cera or Koenji Hyakkei ? ) but the PFMs, Camels, and Strawbs are the draws. And what great Friday nights we have seen. Yes, I am very sad but lets hope the management team at can maybe set up a spot on the site where people can realistically submit bands they would like to see (using common sense cause Gentle Giant ain’t happening ) and have a more “traditional” Nearfest line up. LONG LIVE NEARFEST!!!!!!!
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Posted By: qscprog
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 11:10
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It's NOT the economy! It's NOT the cost! It's NOT the death of Prog! It was the line up.The ticket price for three days of great prog at Nearfest is a bargain. Last year sold out as I believe all previous years . I usually buy Patron tickets. This year I almost didn't buy any. Nearfest is a wonderful event!! Next year let's hope for a better outcome with some great Prog bands. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 11:29
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Crikey. Being a penniless Brit, attending nearfest has never really been viable for me, though when I was first getting into prog I would torture myself on an anual basis by drooling over the line-up. I have to concur with those who've pointed to this year's line-up as the real nail in the coffin here, though. It's not the economy - the usual crowd would save up and make the effort if the line-up was enticing enough. Anyway, whatever the reasons, this is a real shame. Nearfest has been a major fixture on the contemporary prog landscape for years now and its impact always goes far beyond those lucky enough to attend. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 11:34
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Yes, as much as football being dead when a football team goes out of business. It is sad that Nearfest is cancelled this year. But the prog rock scene is still very healthy. So let's not get too much downhearted and start to shoot ourselves in the foot. I have my personal theories why the festival is cancelled. But I will keep them to myself. |
Posted By: Rune2000
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 11:41
| I can't exactly say that I found either Nearfest nor the Rosfest even remotely tempting. Luckily I live in Europe and have nice festivals like the local Sweden Rock Festival with Prog acts like Queensryche, Kansas, Hawkwind, Spock's Beard and Evergrey visiting this year. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 11:42
| There have been plenty of festivals cancelled in Europe, too. They simply have to do it smart and don't let the fans forget that if they wait and remain interested, the return is going to be awesome. (That's how I've seen this marketed, not as a failure.) |
Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 13:08
| I am highly dissapointed. I had front row tickets! I go every year and with very few exceptions have enjoyed every band that performed. I have enjoyed the mix of "traditional" prog bands and new blood. While I still enjoy a good dose of PFM or Spocks Beard, bands like Pineapple Thief or Until Sunrise is the future. I really enjoy the international flavor that has been a characteristic of this festival in recent years as well. "Progressive" means to evolve and like it or not, that is what's happening. This is an anomoly and I am sure it will be back. I will be at Progday this year, but I will really miss the quality and vibe of NEARFEST weekend. Long live NEARFEST - see you in 2012! |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: March 26 2011 at 18:34
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Not sure if I have met you before or not. I have been to several NF, RF and PD's. They are all good and all a bit different. I was pretty involved with PD a few years ago. The only fest I go to much anymore is RF and I missed even that one last year. The band's chosen have been a factor in the lack of ticket sales but I don't think that tells the whole story. Do that many people go to a festival just to see the headliners? Progfans seem to be more hardcore than that. I think the economy is a big factor too but it's hard to say which factor is the biggest. The lineup actually seemed pretty solid but I admit not having really solid headliners for a prog festival is probably the thing that hurt it the most this year. UM just aren't well known enough in prog circles and not enough people whether they be old fans or younger fans know about the New Trolls. I think Curved Air are actually more well known over all than the New Trolls. Anyway, this is too bad and a real bad break for NF. I get the feeling it will be back next year though. |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: March 27 2011 at 04:57
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I think this year's line-up was very interesting, can't see a problem there. I would gladly pay to see some of those acts on their own. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 27 2011 at 13:34
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Having attended many NEARFESTs, the problem as I see it is that it was so successful in years past with the patron program and the instant general ticket sellouts, that it became a closed community. It is safe to say that the biggest change in the faces at the festival from year to year were the musicians. I got to know many people on a first name basis. The problem with that is as soon as a segment of that community chose not to attend (for whatever reason), there was not a source of newcomers to replace them. I don't know what all of the issues were leading to the decision to cancel, but it just seemed to me that there was plenty of time to get the word out that tickets were available. If I had not seen the posting on Facebook, I would have only assumed that it sold out in one day like in past years. I think that a word-of-mouth marketing campaign starting with an e-mail to the patrons and vendors may have been enough to get tickets sold. For instance, I have friends that would go to a festival like this, but I never pushed it with them because it had been too hard to get tickets in the past. A lot of people won't sit on the phone for 3 hours waiting to talk to a box office or pay double the ticket price to be a patron, but may buy a ticket if they knew they could simply go to a web site and get a good seat. Anyway that's my 2 cents. I am probably over simplifying what was an overwhelming difficulty. I know the guys managing NEARFEST do a fine job, and I am sure it will be back next year. Prog_Traveler: if you go to Prog Day look for me - I will be with the Quantum Fantay contingent. I will likely be wearing a Paul Reed Smith (PRS) or Until Sunrise T-shirt. Quantum Fantay and Until Sunrise are touring together at the end of August into September and I will be traveling with the bands. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 07:45
| For a different take on the matter, see http://progmistress.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/interlude-nearfest-2011-a-wake-up-call-for-prog/" rel="nofollow - here |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 09:15
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I've never
been to Nearfest, but when I look at that line-up I wouldn't be tempted to go. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 10:07
In wasnt aware that Raff had her own blog, but I think she definitely hit the nail on the head there. Admitedly though, the NEARfest line-up was very hit-or-miss this year from my point of view. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 10:19
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Yes there was a cancelation this year that could have had an impact. Super Sister canceled due to health reasons of one of thier members. Umphreys Mcgee is not really that obscure. They play Jam-Band and progressive and would have played thier more progressive material at NEARFEST. They started as a Pink Floyd cover band and thier live performances are phenominal. I do believe that most of the other bands in the line-up have played at other key festivals in the US in the past such as PROG DAY and ROSFEST. All of the information on NEARFEST including ticket costs are available on thier web site http://www.nearfest.com" rel="nofollow - www.nearfest.com . |
Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 14:42
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Long time lurker here. Hi. When will people stop using the economy as an excuse when their decisions don't work out? 2009 was a massive success despite the economy being in the toilet. This lineup, plain and simple, is too new/weird to expect the typical NEARFest goer to spend $600 for a weekend. Not that I think that it's a bad lineup.. I bought my tickets this year and I am massively disappointed.. but the reason why past editions are so successful is because you get to see the new bands stand tall among the legends of the 70's. Come for PFM, stay for Cabezas de Cera, so to speak. This year there are no PFM's so it becomes a hard sell, regardless of the economy. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 16:21
exactly... a point I've made several times It is a very vivid example of the distinctions between fans of prog fan.. and fans of progressive music. It's like a very wise man said... 'Nearfest became too progressive for it's fans.. a sad irony but not unexpected considering the nature of prog internet forums'. People just wanted a nostaglia fest. words of wisdom here... Jacob said: I'm just going to chime in on the original post, dunno what's been discussed over all these pages. I whole-heartedly applaud every prog festival organizer who has ever walked the earth for their amazing contribution to the entire prog revival. Without people like Rob and Chad and Greg and Steve and George and the rest, a lot of us in prog bands would simply be nowhere. Progfest and NEARfest in particular have been essential to the growth of Scandinavian prog in the 90's and noughties. It just seems that the time has come now for prog to find a new way. The festivals have become, as was mentioned, nostalgia get-togethers. They have been artificial life-lines for stagnant acts, rather than fertile grounds for new, exciting acts. And those organizers who have tried to feature some new blood have been punished by a rather backwards-looking audience. As with NEARfest this year. I don't think blaming either the audience, the organizers or the bands has any virtue. What I think, is that the prog umbrella for too long has tried to shelter two very different things under its shade: On the one hand, the nostalgia scene, which features both the old acts that are still around, like Yes and whatever Italian band you care to mention, and "old-new" bands like Flower Kings and Transatlantic - bands that, though newish, cater mostly to very conservative audiences. On the other hand, the new progressive scene, which could include anything from The Mars Volta to Gösta Berlings Saga, and which really isn't a scene at all, especially considering that many of the bands themselves have no awareness of being part of a "prog scene". These two strands really are extremely different. There's plenty of people with a love for both (including, to a certain extent, myself). But to throw the typical fans of both scenes (the former, ageing, follicle-challenged geezers - bless'em all!, the latter young, dynamic listeners brought up to endless eclecticism and irreverence to genres - bless them too!), might just be too much of a stretch. Maybe it's time for a divorce. Let the geezers have their nostalgia-fests, and let the "new prog" bands get out on the regular rock circuit and compete with any other rock genres out there rather than put them in the geriatric ward of "prog" where the smell of old age will make them unpalatable to both the rock media and the major labels. No disrespect to either!!! :-) And as an a propos: Prog labels that sign new, fresh and exciting bands should be careful how they market and present the bands. Selling them in the traditional way ("washes of mellotrons, recall Eloy in their heyday, rave reception at Bolivia Art Rock Fest (BARF)") will, quite simply, sell them short. It's a new world out there. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 16:52
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I can't remember the lineup exactly, but for me there were two (possibly three) bands that I liked and the rest either I don't or ddidn't know. Based on some of the comments here, I can't imagine I'm alone on this. So honestly, even if you differ in your opinion of the lineup, who would spend the amount of money they are asking (plus travel and hotel) to see a majority of bands they didn't want (or care) too? I'm not saying you need a huge old name (like Caravan or Magma or PFM) but you need something that will draw people in. If not, drop the prices. There is a reason some bands are cheap to see. Its just the nature of the game as they say.
But hopefully they shall rebound and come back next year in some form. I don't think this incident has killed it completely. I know I'll consider going next year if they have it, and then make the final decision based on who is playing there. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: SMSM
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 17:27
| A good point perhaps. While I like Curved Air, They are not really superstar status. For spending $600 for the weekend, they had better have like e.g. Le Orme. Maybe do one day then you don't need to pay for a hotel. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 21:12
This is totally sad, but the American way, is usually the extravagant way, and the one that shows the money ... as was the case with Sean Ahearn's attempt in 1999, where he took a wash for some 30 or 40k ... and the help he got from many of us, simply was not enough ... I have never received a penny from all the pictures they used for their posters and adverts ... and it was fine with me ... it was my way of helping if I could. I'm proud of just knowing that I was there, even if my name is not listed like it should have been! But that's ok. I have the negatives if anyone wants to see them! And my expenses ran into the $600 dollars worth of film, developing and printing a set for Sean and myself. And I paid for the trip, my tickets, gas time and effort for free!
I don't think that the issue was the business scales of the times, and neither do I think that the musicians selected were the issue ... although it might be easy to say that ... maybe one or two of those acts were over rated and probably got paid more than they should have! ... but that is neither here nor there ... but hurts the outcome.
In general, the biggest problem is how the information gets around. And not everyone is on the same page here ... there is Twitter, Facebook, Youbullsh*t, ProgArchives and other places ... but I never saw that advert ... and if PA did not have a flashing icon going ... they didn't help ... because I never saw it! I didn't even know the dates or the acts!
My example of the Festival in 1999 is important ... and I only found out about it from Mike, who was a part of Gong (as a sound board person) and later came on to play bass with Daevid in the University of Errors, of which I am a professor and emeritus member per Daevid and I have the certificate in my wall! And I promptly found a way to get a couple of days off, drove down on a rented car (my VW bus would not have made it!) and took with me 20 rolls of 800 ASA (36-Pro) Kodak to shoot the event ... with Sean Ahearn's permission and approval.
I would have loved to make it to Nearfest ... but the way of getting the information around, to my knowledge, was limited ... and when you can only BURY IT in a small forum in the middle of nowhere, as PA does, in the end, it hurts the festival. I do not think that PA has to, necessarily, help these folks, but I do think that a more open and willing reception and exchange of ideas and thoughts is important, but in the end, I felt that the choices Nearfest was making, were ... interesting, but I would like to see 3 of those and the rest I can miss out on ... and I'm sure others feel the same. But I have to tell you that Sean's line up was more interesting and massive ... goodness, Brand X, Magma, Porcupine Tree, Gong ... you're kidding me right? ... that was almost half the whole lineup !!!!!!
I don't want anyone in that group -- specially given their history -- to lose their shirts and pants ... but I am not sure that the economy is the problem ... music and the arts always survive and make it ... we just have to learn how to bring to the stage the modern Orson's that will magically get us rivetted to our seats ... and we have to do a MUCH BETTER job supporting new bands and their work ... but we also have to expect those bands to get better, because just filling out the show with some metal and then some prog, is going to turn me off ... as too many of those are just not worth it. And I am not sure that I would feel the need to see the Wayside NewYork Frank Zappa wannabe copies with a different instrument!
I remember when Daevid was in Santa Barbara, and he probably was broke and shirt less and starving, but he didn't quit and our friends took care of him the best we could ... and we got him a gig or two (that's when he did his Divided Alien thing first!) and he eventually put something together so he could get another dinner or two at The Wolf ... and at least eat right ... and yes, there are times when things are tough, but it is at this time when we have to get better instead of lazy ... and invent new ways to communicate and reach people ... and I never understood why they did not put together a mailing list and/or a list of friends ... which should number 150k people ... so they could send out a quick note that something is happening. I'm not sure that 5k of those people will show up, but you never know, and if they don't know ... seriously ... how much does an email alert cost you? ... An internet business account is $60 bux per month ... and a busienss deduction on your Schedule C ... but you have to do more, than simply expect the ticket sales to support you. You don't have record companies anymore, and some of these bands are doing their own thing anyway ... but in the end ... a lot of it depends on what you have done and not done ... in the past -- and how you adjust for today!
The local issue is another story that I am not qualified for ... but let me tell you that Guy Guden and Space Pirate Radio had the same fight in Santa Barbara for many years, and he is still not remembered or appreciated for the uncompromising way that he stuck to these artists ... no one knows him today or gives a sh*t ... and that is the part of this business that hurts ... we don't even have enough class to pat each other in the back ... and will gladly send our condolences upon your death! ... we need the help during the life ... and that is the part that a lot of these "progressive" places are not helping with ... and it is a trade out that you folks have to learn to deal with ... to help yourselves and each other -- not to mention help establish the "name" better. So, as a joke, all folks at the show should know PA, and all the folks at PA should know ... there is a show out there ... and such and such are going to be there ... I might not make it, but my sister in Baltimore might say ... ohhhh interesting ... and show up!
You have to get better support and co-operation and help from the Chamber of Commerce and many other "town" things, but that means you have to spend time making sure they have the information on time so they can also list it on their web sites and such ... where does the creativity stop? And some parts of it have to go commercial ... so you can ensure the support and sales ... and if that means you go to Pepsi or Coke distribution center and rent out the pumps and the bottles so you can pick up a couple extra bux, you DO IT ... and stop bitching! You don't have a choice at this point, and if you make a mint once, re-invest ... don't lie to us and then go buy a new Mercedes, because that will come around to bite you!
One last thing ... the guy that owns the Troubadour in LA, used to have one thing in the contracts that has helped him tremendously ... do some research and find out what it is ... and you should do the same thing, no matter if it is a band from Podunk, New Zealand. It's really kool, and the artist gets paid the same! But it's a trade out for the faith that someone had when someone was starting out. And maybe that is what our problem is ... we're trying to go after too many albatrosses that are already dead and not helping the new kids out there ... and as such ... yeah ... we're getting older, lazier, and we are still screwed up and think that "progressive" is ten bands and the rest sux!
I would go after Zappa plays Zappa right off the bat ... start at the top and guarantee a sell out on one of the nights ... jsut an example. Not sure Gail would like this, but Dweezil might come up to you ... what happens if the next night I just do Dweezil and my work ... ? ... and he might even say ... I'm willing to do this for almost nothing just to get my name out there better and such ... you just never know ... you just never know ... or better yet ... (you ready?) ... have him do a Frank Zappa non-musician workshop ... a one hour fun with the audience and a handful of musicians just for fun ... and we will make the be-bop tango look stupid when we get done ... you just never know and the guy might just say ... that could be worth having fun with! And watch 5 or 10 major musicians show up for the fun un-announced! ... you never know, unless you have the guuts to try it and go after it. But you have to stop going after dead albatrosses that most of us don't care about anymore!
Sometimes I think we're just getting old, out of shape, and out of time ... that's all ... and we have to learn from Daevid Allen what it is about "energy" and "strength" that makes it work. And then the next question is ... do we want to?
Good night ... sweet dreams ... because that is what you all need! And I sincerely hope that you folks over there at Neafest are willing and capable of reading this! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 21:26
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Hi,
One last idea ...
Start the Progressive Music Hall of Fame ... even if it is just an online place with words from all of us!
And stop being so damned clickish ... because nothing kills it all more than that ... exclusivity! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 00:24
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I wish we could do something like Nearfest in Chicago! We have prog groups blow through all the time (Yes just last weekend), and we have a ton of local prog talent, particularly of the jazz-rock fusion brand. The FM radio stations are jammed with Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, etc. all day long! A festival that mixed some older groups with newer stuff would probably be popular. However, it is damned expensive to do all of that....I have a buddy who used to bring acts to Chicago as a hobby (Brand X and Nebel Nest were two great shows!), he lost his shirt on the stuff. We have lots of underutilized venue space and a huge audience base, so I just don't know why it couldn't work here. Chicago Jazz Fest is coming up soon, as is Gospel Fest.
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Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 00:35
| This really sucks for the local economy... it's impossible to find an hotel room during NEARFest weekend, and now it'll all be vacant. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 01:41
very interesting read. The High Voltage festival although not designated a 'prog festival' as such does have a prog stage and is about 'nostalgia acts'. They recognise that this is the only way to pull in the punters. However their first year despite having prog legends ELP still fell a long way short of selling out (something like 18000 tickets were sold for Sunday when the capacity would have allowed near 30,000- at least no queue for the toilets!). This year is crucial and will be interesting to see whether the festival can build on last year. Dream Theater is now the headline act. Will that attract more people given that they are a more modern contemporary prog band? Will have to wait and see.
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Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 06:25
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I lived for years within 10 minutes of NEARfest. As others have pointed out, past lineups have been nothing short of outstanding for the most part. Despite gas prices, the economy here is stronger than it was at this same point last year.
I will go on record as saying the puzzling band selection at this year's NF was the single biggest reason for poor sales. Umphrey's McGee as the headliner? C'mon. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 15:21
very interesting indeed. I met him through Raff's facebook page (shes the one more involved in the behinds the scene action than I am) and he had some interesting views on the state of things prog, then saw his post over on PE's. Thought it was an interesting and essential view (from a working member of a current act today) and should be shared. I'll be curious myself to see how High Voltage goes this year. After hearing some private thoughts given to Raff by people close to the situation there, I have very deep fears for the future of Nearfest and live festivals here in the states. I could care less for the old timers, they had their time in the sun and obviously can get people to show up for their shows. I think Jacob was right, it might well be time for a split, for the new bands to think about carving their own paths. AWAY from associating themselves with prog rock. Prog rock to too many, those who have the money to invest in it, it is a very narrow and backward view of prog. Today's generation I believe cares a great deal less about tags and labels than many who call themselves prog fans. UM didn't care if they were playing a prog fest or not.. like I often like to say... the 14 year old girls next to me at the HoL concert last year would have gone WFT are you talking aboutt if I had asked them what they thought about prog rock? In it's own funny way it harkens back to what prog so great in the 70's (and the whole 70's muscial scene) it was the days before the industry slapped tags and labels on everything where you might go to a ELP concert one night, and the Stevie Wonder the next. Perhaps with the download era and the manifest decrease in the power and reach of the recording industry.. that we have reached some point where tags and labels just don't matter one iota to today's engaged listeners. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:54
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^ Ah you are so correct Micky. The prog label is thing that needs to die a quick death so the music can survive. Back in the 70's it was all still Rock music but certain bands seemed linked to one another but the wholesale lumping didn't happen until later in the decade. I have this poster hanging in my room from a certain Dec 1969 show at the Filmore West in San Francisco the line up was (headliner first): Chambers Brothers King Crimson The Nice Little Princess #109 here are a couple of the lineups they had back in the day: Nov 28 1968 It's a Beautiful Day Deep Purple Cold Blood Holy See Feb 26, 1970
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 17:41
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It's very sad but if you are going to market yourself as a Prog Rock Festival then you really need to have a line up that is recognisably Prog. It's all very well blaming Prog fans for being stuck in their ways and maybe stuck in the 70s but that is what it is and if they did not buy tickets in sufficient numbers then the festival organisers messed up. It's as simple as that. You can't expect Prog fans to shell out big bucks for something they don't recognise as Prog.
To me this whole clusterf**k is symptomatic of the ridiculous fallacy that Prog Rock and Rock that is progressive are the same. Here's proof that they aren't. So everyone loses. |
Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 17:56
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My dream lineup for a festival:
Yes
Porcupine Tree
The Dear Hunter
Crack the Sky
Morgibl
Three
PFM
Time Columns
Until Sunrise
Quantum Fantay
Spocks Beard
Dixie Dregs
Marillion
Ten Years After
Now that would be variety!
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Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:08
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The point is - it's all a matter of taste. My college age son's two favorite albums are Yes - Close to the Edge and Sigur Rós ( ). One of the characteristics of Prog is that is an aquired taste especially the stuff on the fringe. At one time even Yes was on the fringe of the then accepted contemporary music and only had a small but dedicated cult following but ultimately became a commerical giant. Some of the "new" stuff is also an aquired taste. The more I listen to the newer varieties of prog whether a revival of a classic symphonic theme or the newest variety of ambient driven post rock, the more I tend to like it. The overriding characteristic is relative complexity to the music and highly talented musicians. If that is present, then I am willing to listen to explore new ground. It's all about the music - right? |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:16
Great post Tony. (BTW How the hell are you?  ) It really comes down to do you want a nostalgia fest or a fest that is celebrating new music twisted on the old. Why I liked Calprog so much is not matter what the bands direction was the promoter asked them to pick a classic prog song to play at the festival as sort of a homage to its roots without necessarily having someone from the 70's on the stage. I have seen 20-25 bands i never would have seen without the fest and I am very happy to have that experience. However the show never sells out and last year didn't even sell half so again your point is made. i can't believe in an area with 10 million people within an hour to hour and half drive cant get 400 people there. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:26
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I'm good Brian.
Wonder when M@x is going to invest his millions in the Greatest Prog Festival Ever? 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 19:25
Aww, thanks man!  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:06
Agree 100%---
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:08
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I think we've agreed already that what kills the festivals is their attempt to "stay prog"...
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:15
Then "we" are not really very good at this event staging lark and should stay out of it...
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Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:24
| It's THREE DAYS of music. You can very well please everyone, and they've done so very successfully until now. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:32
Actually I've been into the event staging industry already (events comparable or bigger than a prog festival, like the PROMS franchize for example), so I think my opinion weighs more than others' |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:43
Go for the gusto ... !
Mike Oldfield
Vangelis
Ryuichi Sakamoto
Klaus Schulze
Roy Harper
Peter Hammill (not VdGG!)
Manuel Gottsching
Egberto Gismonti
Keith Jarrett
... as far as rock bands on a festival, I can safely say that there is only a handful I would dearly love to see these days ... they are:
Djam Karet
Porcupine Tree (already seen them once in 1999)
Zappa plays Zappa or Dweezil on his own not doing a daddy impression!
Terje Rypdal
Some of the things that I would love to catch and see ... that I think would be massive and fun and different. have a festival do one of those question and answer things with some of these people ... and the ones that I would love to hear and talk to would be -- and you would not have to bring a band along either! They are welcome to play if they want to one but hopefully it would be nothing but an appreciation hour or two for that person to say hello and talk about their art ... it would be something totally massive and different ... and sort of like the ending of the "Actor's Studio" thing on the Bravo Channel. I just hope that we are not creative and clever enough or too old and f**ked up, to even try doing something different and far out.
Daevid Allen
Robert Wyatt
Kevin Ayers
Richard Pinhas
Robert Fripp
Mani Neumeier
Holger Czukay
Christian and Stella Vander
... and this would be a lot less expensive than trying to bring over a lot of equipment and whatever else the person/band needs.
Not to mention that it would add something else to the whole evening that otherwise -- would be more interesting in regards to the music and its history ... than it would the "progressive" thing ... I'm not sure we need to see Robert play again on a stage ... or any of these folks ... but it would be nice to get a better idea of their talent and learning and what brought them here and how and why ... we might have a lot of fun hearing all these stories.
And then ... the newer bands ... I'm not sure that I would enjoy the Umphrey's ... comment ... specially if I was in the band and trying hard to get out there and "make it" ... but it gives you an idea of how picky and sometimes really full of sh*t, we are when it comes to our own tastes ... notice that the interview section I listed is the grand-daddy list ... and the play list is much younger ...
Sad to see someone hammer that band ... and it was the same thing in 1999 at the SF Show I went to ... someone hammered Lana Lane and the Rocket Scientists, and they put on the most professional, tightest, and well rehearsed show of all that whole Saturday ... and they deserved a lot more than they got ... but they got ... ohh they are some band from LA, too metal ... or some of the craziest poop you ever heard.
In the end, it is about the love and respect of the music ... and as you can see, we do not have ENOUGH respect for the music itself in order to appreciate other bands showing what they can do ... and that is, by far, one of the saddest things, that even this board is a part of ... creating an atmosphere where the top ten dinosaurs are good adn the rest isn't ... and no one can live up to that and succeed. And in the end, it ends up hurting festivals and any chance of many of these bands coming around ...
Oh well ... it's the American culture ... let's go watch American Idol ... !!! Who the f**k cares about progressive or prog anyway?
We're at fault as much as they are ... and I find it sad that we're accusing them of bad taste, specially when they have a phenomenal record of the bands they brought in for our appreciation ... and you folks over there at the Nearfast ... that person, does NOT speak for me! I would have seen that band and all the others and given them their due and fair listen!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 21:13
I think that we have to go back to the old days ... and find a park, and play every Saturday afternoon ... until all of a sudden ... several thousands are there and you are selling 500 CD's every weekend ... and watch a record distribution outfit show up at your door next week!
I really think that waiting for Nearfest, or ProgArchives or anyone else, or anything else, to carry you to dreamland and starland, is facile, and worse than star dreams at American Fool or American Idiot ... !!!
Basically ... you have to know how to invest in yourself ... and if I have to show up with my band on Central Park, or in the Bears parking lot, I will damn it ... but you will remember it! Right or wrong. But thinking that I would have to wait for the fame? ... right ...
Chicago is an excellent place for music, although I always thought that it was a bit too conventional for my tastes ... we had better taste for music and new stuff in Madison, than there was in Chicago ... but Chicago was cool enough to have Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin ... and that is something that Madison did not have ... and even folks here in PA probably don't know what what was all about or its value! Even to progressive and experimental music!
But you CAN NOT ... depend on the regular avenues for doing this, or the regular advertising ... you have to have the guts and balls and verve, to stand up and be counted and then noticed ... or it will not happen! And I'm not sure that those single sheets on every pole across town is enough, or a good thing, other than trashing the town ... and I can not tell you of a single concert I ever went to ... because of a single sheet poster on a street pole!
Awareness is a one on one thing, and I don't have affairs with a street pole ... so there ... lesson on advertising right there! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 21:42
| moshkito, I hope that you didn't think my comment on it all about personal tasts was intended to say the NEARFEST organizers have bad taste. On the contrary, I was trying to point out that I AM one of the old fart who actually saw Yes play in the round the first time, And peter Gabriel on the stage with Genesis and I enjoy seeing the new bands very much. I have been to half of the dozen NEARFESTs, and every single one of them was exceptional. With a couple of exceptions I likes the new and the old. I will still listen to Trick of the Tail from beginging to end, but will also listen to Ulver - In the Red or Opeth - Ghost Reveries and enjoy it all. In fact, I also love Jazz; Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Dizzy Gillespie - but that's another story all together. Again, it's all about the music (not an idea of what it is supposed to be). |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 23:28
Good stuff, thanks! Prog bands, wether big-name or local, tend to blow through the smaller venues....I saw John Goodsall, Percy Jones & their bands in a tiny bar in Chicago called "Martyrs," and Tony Levin & Adrian Belew also played that place. Gong played the Cubby Bear bar, Nebel Nest at Schuba's Tavern, and the Yes concert a couple weeks ago was at House of Blues, etc. Local guys include Kick The Cat (jaw-dropping fusion!), Grand Parade (they do a lot of 70's stuff from many bands), a bunch of tribute bands and a few other acts that have decent fan followings. Check this out - Chicago's own Fareed Haque, sitting in with California Guitar Trio! https://cgtrio.com/latest/latest-news/item/47-cgt-in-chicago-with-fareed-haque-free-download" rel="nofollow - https://cgtrio.com/latest/latest-news/item/47-cgt-in-chicago-with-fareed-haque-free-download I don't know the scene in Madison for squat, but I love the town! University towns tend to have more of the creative energy, we had Starcastle in Champaign when I was getting my BS from UI. I'll have to check into it! |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 00:28
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Wait Umphrey's were playing this? They usually draw a huge crowd and have a ton of followers. Ticket sales from their followers alone should have been more then enough. Or was this festival not advertised to the jam band scene? The jam band scene has a ton of people who love prog and don't even know it yet. I'm honestly surprised more artists aren't reaching out to that community. I know a lot of jam band fans who love prog and don't even know it yet. ------------- 
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Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 00:47
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The NEARFEST crowd would have liked Umphreys MCgee live. Unlike something like Phish, UM has a very strong progressive overlay and the musicianship is outstanding. Yes the do improv a bit, but in a complex Jazz like way. They do pink floyd covers! They are typically played on prog internet radio stations. I have not really understood why having them in the line up was an issue. I can tell you from year of going to NEARFEST though was the quality of the unknown newbie acts that have surpise the crowd with excellence at the 11AM opennings. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 02:03
But I tend to think that fans then were 'spoilt' to some extent simply because there were so many talented musicians who had their own vision. I'm not just talking the ELP's and Genesis type bands of course but also people like Stevie Wonder (as mentioned) and the odd bands like Roxy Music who were a bit 'left field'. So whats changed? I suspect it was just the passing of a great era in music and the unwelcome intrusion of the media (critics and TV) into what is essentially an artistic process. Music just doesn't fly anymore and that perhaps refelcts now in the quality of bands that are around. The festival organisers can only do what they can with whats available.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 06:43
Apples and oranges pal. 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 07:12
| So you can't offer a valid opinion on organizing prog festivals unless you've organized prog festivals? In that case everyone here is talking out of their range of knowledge. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 09:55
I think it already is fwiw and lot of that has to do with the digital age, and the 'at a click' nature of getting music. If one is not exactly constrained by cost to check music out people can and I suspect are more free to explore not to mention the internet making word of mouth much easier these days. That lumping obviously still exists at some level, very much where the record industry has still considerable sway. However since the recording industry obviously has like zippo interest in trying to market (ie.. lump together) many of today's progressive group they are more free. .and do .. reach a wider audience. Music to them these days, is probably just as it was to you back in the day, Good music is... good music. Unfortunately I think prog fans are sort of stuck in the old way of thinking. That old irony again. It's like I mentioned earlier.. did any of those kids I saw at the Decemberists show really care one iota if they were digging a fantastic prog concert. I doubt that, and probably would have looked you as if you had two heads if you had mentioned it. It was great music that happened to be prog... that is where prog will survive. With or without festivals. Will festivals get with the times.. and stop being the prog world equilvalent of the record industry....we'll see. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 16:14
I do think that we have to rejuvenate ourselves a little more ... but that's me ... I find some of the new music really helpful in that area ... and I'm 60!
To me, a lot of the old ones, are still the same, and they stopped growing. Too much of their work has become a different note on the same work they were doing before ... and that usually loses it for me. I think that at this point I would rather Daevid Allen spent an hour having tea with us, than playing old Gong standards again ... and if he wants to break into a singalong, or a song on his accoustic, I'm ok with that ... but all of a sudden ... you MEET the artist ... and I find this a lot better than the image that rock music gives us, which is something I am not interested in. The worship and the whatever and the star and ... I love the work ... not the star! I love the music ... not the fame! They might be related ... but what is behind that creates it, is wayyyyy better ... than anything else they can play on stage!
Festivals, for me, is about having fun and learning new things and new music, and what not ... but having a festival to simply go hear the same thing (like the Portland Jazz Festival every year here! -- finally brought an ECM artist this year ... and I have been screaming for 20!) ... really hurts ... and when we talk about the music here ... sometimes in condescending terms - I hope that I don't come off that way, because that is not me, and I can appreciate all styles and go out of the way to never separate MUSIC by styles so I don't fall into that trap --
I've been to a few ... but in general, I prefer the cozy atmosphere for most music, when the artist can get free and loose, and it is the reason why I suggested a Bernard Pivot type of Q and A and a free for all, so the artist can be himself/herself and not have to play "the star" ... and if you ever see those things on the "Actor's Studio" thing, you will find how valuable and neat these are ... and even MTV and VH1 are not good enough to consider doing something like this. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:14
No, you were claiming a "knowing" opinion then an "expert" opinion.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:17
You can't tell people what to like. The trick is to gather some bands that most people will want to see and pay for the pleasure then mix in some bands that are up-and-coming and/or promising. Add a few off-the-wall bands for flavour and Prog's your uncle. This is not rocket science. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:26
I wasn't claiming it, I know I have it already.  But that's out of the point anyway - what I was trying to do was to put your post in the proper context - i.e. showing an opinion which is an obvious minority. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:37
If my opinion was in a minority then Nearfest wouldn't have been cancelled!
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Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 19:55
NEARFEST were contacted and could have had FLASH and Stan Whitaker's OBLIVION SUN. Why didn't they? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 06:35
Hey Sherry. Probably had a lot to do with Oblivion Sun playing there just two years ago. Besides the undercards weren't exactly the issue, they were as strong as ever, and OS is not exactly headliner material. Not in the way Nearfest crowds had come to expect at least. Which leads to... As far as Flash. Could be that they just played ProgDay, but that ignores the stated (cryptically as it was) intention for this year to be a 'transition year'. I think they saw the writing on the wall that classic headliners aren't going to be around forever and basing the fortunes of the festival on them was a dead end route. I guess that got proven in spades didn't it hahah. One can debate the merits of that move and especially the way they did it but if you want an answer why? I suppose that is why. They wanted to transition to more modern groups, perhaps to lend more exposure to the current prog scene. What we obviously saw was a complete disconnect between the festival and what they are trying to do, and the audience and what they want. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 07:27
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I appreciate your comments, Micky. As Tony said, common sense tells you the winning combo is to have a mix of 'old' (name bands) and new. They blew it. By the way, when the new Flash CD is released, I think it'll be clear to everyone they're not only a "modern group" - I expect them to give a much needed boost to the "current prog scene". In the meantime, you should check out Ray Bennett's solo CD "Whatever Falls" (Voiceprint 2001) - excellent reviews and shows an artist as vital and innovative as his early days with Flash.  P.S. Were you at ProgDay, Micky? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 18:09
ooohhh. That is obviously one way to look at it Sherry. The festival didn't give the core audience what it wanted. At what point though should the organizers start to ask. What happens when those classic bands that draw so many aren't around to headline these shows. (hint.. we got a preview this year) Remembering that these organizers work year round not to simply get their nostalgia freak on but using venues like the NJ Proghouse promoting and nuturing today's prog bands. Umm possibly TOMORROW's headliners that some seem to thing are a dime a dozen in todays fractured and often un-traditional prog scene. I met some guy on PE's who thought they should be chosen using 'maximal consensus'. Huh.. I nearly fell outta my chair when I read that. Has he spent ANY time on prog sites. Find me 3 people that agree to a definition of prog rock and I'll wager money that you can find hundreds of people that agree enough on a modern band that they are a) headlining material and b) errr.. prog in the first place As some have said, there is blame enough to be shared by organizers and the audience. The audience was under no obligation to support the festival, the artists, or the music that we all claim to love. I get that but they shouldn't have whined and cried about the cancellation like spoiled kids sent from the table without getting dessert, To be fair though who says the organizers have any obligation to the audience. As I said.. it was a complete disconnect between the two. One is working to promote the music, and do so with the understanding that these classic headliners are disappearing, the other voted with it's wallet that it has little real interest. Lip service if you will in the music itself other than as a appetizer to the moldy oldies. Is either side to blame, is either side without blame. Who knows. I for one will be mighty curious to see what Nearfest does if it does try again next year. Resign itself to what people want, or try to refocus people to what drew them into those groups in the first place.
Oh we most certainly were at ProgDay. It was a first for Raff and the 2nd for me. I love it there and as nice as Nearfest was, there is no better location for a prog festival. We did really dig Flash's set btw! I look forward to hearing both of those albums Sherry. If I can plug my wife....... she is quite an active prog reviewer and don't think I am being too biased to say her reviews are quite well respected in the community. If you want some promotional help, talk to her and let her take a crack at those albums. She is tough, but you won't find you fairer reviewer. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TechnicallySpeaking
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 20:32
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[/QUOTE]
NEARFEST were contacted and could have had FLASH and Stan Whitaker's OBLIVION SUN. Why didn't they? [/QUOTE] I beleive that the festival had become a closed market and a victim of its previous success. When the core audiance (The Patrons) did not sign up, there was not time to market to the outside. I beleive Umphey McGee could have sold it out. There wad plenty of time left to sell general sales tickets. The problem is that it was too late becaue not enough patron tickets were sold and that geneates twice the income per ticket. Once they realized that not enought patron tickets were sold, they realized that even if they sold out on the general sales tickets, they would not have had enough revenue to cover the cost. It was a business decision. Now next year they can change the model to maket more hevily in the open market in time to draw new crowds to the event prior to selling patron seats. It could not hurt to go back to a mix, but I for one (at the age of 50) hope that they keep new talent on the roster, continue with the international theme and stay at the same venue. The venue has incredible aucoutics which is important to this kind of festival. The staff at the Zolliener has been great and the Comfort Suites has been awesome as well. I look forward to a strong resurgence next year and have already offiered my services to help.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 21:30
Yeah ... but you might not be taking in consideration an outlay and loss of about 50k dollars or more ... before the first note is sounded ...
And that is scary for anyone ... but I do think that, sometimes, we just have to come down and adjust, and perhaps the Nearfest folks were not able to adjust fast enough to prevent a serious washdown and tsunami that might hurt the festival for years and years to come ... again ... I think that we are all to blame here ... the chance and ability and care for something like this simply did not come across and they did not get enough help from local internet, radio, tv and other venues to help themselves better ... but then, sometimes when it comes to competition, many people find a way to not like something instead of working together to help each other better.
We don't know ... but it's hard for me to not think that the Nearfest folks are not 50% of this equation ... look ... do the math ... if you have to give away a ticket, and you get 20 people for it ... you do that ... for crying out loud ... I used to give away free meals at our restaurant to seniors ... (40 every week) ... and you know something? ... it averaged about 4 or 5 folks with them per each one of those freebies ... and I never lost a senior in my days in that business ... my sales of senior "cards" always increased and I gained them faster than I lost ... so stop telling me that this and that is down ... the music is never down ... we are!
It has to do with the leadership ... and perhaps they do not have the aura, the feel, the love, the attraction ... the open-ness ... that the previous leader of their group did ... who knows ... I don't think they have told us the whole story ... and I think they are having too many fights inside their heads right now to be able to get a clear insight as to what they need to do to fix it ... it can't be just about "their" ideas, or their "likes" and their "dislikes" ... because they also have to get other people to buy the tickets ... but maybe they did one local prog band wrong and it got back to them ... who knows? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 02:57
That's very cool! I'm glad. I did too. It was a gorgeous day, and a lot of fun. Ironically, Flash is the only band I got to hear since we arrived just before their set which ended the day, and we had to fly out the next day. If you'll give me contact info for your wife, I'll pass it along to the band. We'll let you know when the new CD is ready. I have to say, I knew nothing about prog rock when I met Ray in 1980, and I still don't listen to much. But I'm a music lover through and through - all kinds of music from classical to jazz to pop and rock - if it's GOOD. Good, of course, is personal and means so many things, but I know it when I hear it - original, adventurous, touching, skillful. I haven't heard much new music lately that I like. The snippets of recent prog that I've encountered, though there are lots of great players, don't go much beyond skillful for me. I get bored listening. It hasn't moved me or drawn me in. Often just seems like 'noodling'. When I first heard Flash, I liked it right away. It's got that quality that says something - goes somewhere - and stays with me. Maybe I'm not alone - maybe that's why prog is fading? There's not enough of that quality, and too much meaningless razzle-dazzle. I think Flash could have helped NEARfest, and will help prog rock. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 06:15
You and I seem a lot alike in our tastes. I get bored pretty easy myself hahah. I just love music, and 'good' prog (ie stuff that connects with me personally) is one of many types of music I love. There are some types of prog that really do nothing for me but it takes all kinds to make a village and for every band that I turn my nose up at, you can bet there are 3 people who love it. There are some great bands out there today, I hope you find them. They are worth the exposure and the support. It is sort of why I came out of my self-imposed prog forum exile when this whole Nearfest dealio broke. I've gotten to meet and know some of the musicians impacted by all this and it is hard to sit on the sidelines I guess. Check out Raff's reviewing blog at http://progmistress.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - http://progmistress.wordpress.com/ if you like what you see and the band is interested in having her check those albums out let her know! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 17:15
Can't see the NEAR fest lineup anymore. Anyone has a good memory and post it please. ------------- Shake & bake. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:13
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:O97wMnS7TEYJ:www.ghostland.com/nearfest/lineup.asp+http://www.nearfest.com/lineup.asp&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com" rel="nofollow - The internet never forgets. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:53
Well they play all over the United States and I am not sure their fans wanted to shell out the money Nearfest charges when they could see them much closer and cheaper. On top of that there is that prog thing about sitting down in your seats and listening instead of standing up dancing as well as that really stupid rule of no smoking in the theater. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:58
That is the key. The core element has become so closed that the festival doesn't even try to reach out beyond it because it always has sold out and sold out quickly. If UM was to be that first step then they failed because they did not reach out beyond the core group. Quite honestly this is true of every other American festival as well. See my post above as to why UM's followers may not have wanted to join in either. If they were counting on this to help sales then they badly misjudged the turnout that would have come from them. -------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 19:49
But I do. Thanx. Well,I wouldn't go out of my way for that line-up.Even if it was down the road. There is nothing there that would draw me in what so ever. Checking the line up faithfully over the last couple of years,I would totally have loved to be there. Not so this year. ------------- Shake & bake. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 01:11
This is my least favorite part of being a prog fan in America. I watch these DVDs of Europe gigs and everyone's having a blast, but I go to see my favorite bands playing some mindblowing shows in the US and most of the audience is sitting down completely stoic. Screw that. My partner and I are always rocking out at shows, regardless of what the rest of the audience is doing. Transatlantic and Fish were the only shows that were an exception to this. Fish especially really got the crowd going (and berated a guy for sitting down and reading during the performance). I wish more prog shows were like this. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 09:46
and that is the key to the key hahha. Excellent point Brian. They needed to reach out beyond a single website. I agree with the points made about reaching out to UM fans, which was one of the points made in the bruhaha when they were announced. This a band that tours all the time, they can be seen easily outside of Nearfest for those that traditional go went to Nearfest. For 'newer' blood, why pay the big time prices for a band they can see in a more condusive atmosphere to dancing, smoking, and meeting hot chicks under the age of 40 hahahaha. The undercards appeal to fans of UM?, it goes back to to what Jacob said in a way. The way these groups are marketed is geared towards the nostaligia folk. 'great epics, washes of mellotron etc etc'. They do these young groups NO favors in doing anything to appeal them to those outside of the fish bowl of prog forums and prog fans. Is it any wonder that that young open-minded music listeners, who may care nothing for all these tags and labels that we were conditioned with over the years by the industry (and prog websites hahah), might turn their nose up at something marketed to sound so... regressive. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 17:03
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Good music doesn't happen when the artist is thinking "prog rock", or anything else that says "I'm THIS". When Yes and Flash and all the others were making music in the 70's, they were just doing what came naturally to them as individual artists and musicians. They were influenced by, and used, everything they'd ever heard, which was VERY diverse - classical, rock, big band, pop, BEALTLES - ( and that's key for an artist). Maybe some of today's musicians haven't had enough of that, and have listened to too much 'prog'.  A REALLY good band ought to be able to play anywhere - prog, rock, jazz festivals. When Flash toured, they were paired with all kinds of bands from "Three Dog Night" to Jeff Beck to "Earth, Wind & Fire". Some pairings worked better than others, but it was healthy to think about going to hear good MUSIC, not a particular sound. Having never played a prog festival before, Flash was curious about Prog Day, and very gratified by their reception. It was a small crowd, but I was especially happy to see the response of one of the youngest in the crowd (20-something) sitting next to me. He was on his feet and digging it!! Let's have more of that... So, I'm all for diversity and thinking in terms of MUSIC festivals rather than a genre. I maintain that if festivals are to succeed and grow, the artists have to be FIRST-RATE, (no proficient noodlers, please!) and promotion has to be excellent. Flash was prepared to do a lot more to promote Prog Day, but weren't called upon. They did one phone interview for a local university station. With major colleges surrounding the festival, nothing else was done to bring in the college students. Youth is always part of a vital scene! They need to hear - and be influenced by - GOOD music. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 17:39
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[QUOTE=sherrynoland]Good music doesn't happen when the artist is thinking "prog rock", or anything else that says "I'm THIS". When Yes and Flash and all the others were making music in the 70's, they were just doing what came naturally to them as individual artists and musicians. They were influenced by, and used, everything they'd ever heard, which was VERY diverse - classical, rock, big band, pop, BEALTLES - ( and that's key for an artist). Maybe some of today's musicians haven't had enough of that, and have listened to too much 'prog'. This is very true---young musicians need to do their homework and listen to all kinds of music to make good prog--you can't just listen to Howe, Hackett or Fripp and play like them---it makes for watered down junk---not very interesting and original. |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 03:25
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S'actly! |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 05:30
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NEARfest 2010
Steve Hackett, Eddie Jobson's Ultimate Zero Project, Three Friends, The Enid, Riverside, Pineapple Thief, Iona, Forgas Band Phenomena, Astra, and Moraine NEARfest '09 (June 19, 20 & 21, 2009) PFM, Gong, Van der Graaf Generator, Steve Hillage Band, Trettioåriga Kriget, Beardfish, DFA, Cabezas de Cera, Oblivion Sun, Quantum Fantay NEARfest X (2008) Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Liquid Tension Experiment, Fish, Peter Hammill, Synergy, echolyn, Discipline, Radio Massacre International, Mörglbl, and Koenji Hyakkei NEARfest 2007 Magma, Hawkwind, Pure Reason Revolution, Magenta, La Maschera di Cera, NeBeLNeST, Indukti, IZZ, Robert Rich, and Bob Drake (Progressive Arts Preshow: Allan Holdsworth, Secret Oyster and One Shot) NEARfest 2006 Keith Emerson, Ozric Tentacles, Ange, FM, Michael Manring, Richard Leo Johnson, Niacin, Riverside, Guapo, and KBB (Progressive Arts Preshow: Hatfield and the North and The Tony Levin Band) NEARfest 2005 Le Orme, IQ, Present, Kenso, Steve Roach, Matthew Parmenter, The Muffins, Frogg Cafe, Wobbler, and Knight Area (Progressive Arts Preshow: PFM and Proto-Kaw) NEARfest 2004 Strawbs, Univers Zero, Mike Keneally Band, Planet X, Richard Pinhas, Sean Malone, Metamorfosi, Pallas, Yezda Urfa, and Hidria Spacefolk (Progressive Arts Preshow: The Musical Box) NEARfest 2003 Camel, Magma, The Flower Kings, Änglagård, Kraan, Tunnels, Glass Hammer, Alamaailman Vasarat, High Wheel, and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum (The Laser's Edge/Cuneiform Records Preshow: Miriodor, Woodenhead, and IZZ) NEARfest 2002 Steve Hackett, Nektar, echolyn, Caravan, Isildurs Bane, Enchant, Miriodor, Gerard, La Torre dell'Alchimista, and Spaced Out (The Laser's Edge/Cuneiform Records Preshow: McGill/Manring/Stevens, Dr. Nerve, and Dysrythmia) NEARfest 2001 Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Porcupine Tree, Deus Ex Machina, After Crying, White Willow, California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin, Djam Karet, Birdsongs of the Mesozoic, The Underground Railroad, and Under the Sun (Independently organized preshow: Land of Chocolate, The Red Masque, Electric Sheepdog and Wine of Nails) NEARfest 2000 Transatlantic, Happy the Man, Anekdoten, Pär Lindh Project, Iluvatar, Il Balletto di Bronzo, DFA, Thinking Plague, North Star, and Nexus (Official Preshow: echolyn and Priam) NEARfest 1999 Spock's Beard, IQ, Solaris, Mastermind, Larry Fast, Crucible, Scott McGill's Hand Farm, Ice Age, Alaska, and Nathan Mahl ----------------------- If you compare the roster for 2011 to those above there are serious questions need posing. Obviously I don't know how financially successful those previous years were but what happened here? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 08:01
very true, perhaps some bands haven't. Or some just play music that they are 'expected' to play by the audience?? Good prog IMO is a melting pot of various musical styles, not a style itself. That leads back to one of my favorite soap boxes that I loved to shout from when I was active member here. The 'genrefication' (© Micky 2006) of prog. Again Jacob hit the nail on the head. There are two distinct grouping at play here. Fans of the genre and fans of progressive rock (music). Nearfest 2011 illustrated that divide. Good news however there are a lot of groups that made their own diverse sound, a progressive sound not tied to the worn out maxims of 'prog rock'. A performer that caught our ears last year at Nearfest was Dennis Rhea (Morraine, Iron Kim Style, solo) whose love and passion for Chinese folk music comes through his music. Great stuff, and funnily enough .. criticized by some as not being prog enough hahaha.
amen to that Sherry! My advice (if it was worth taking) would be for bands to not want to play retro fests, but tie themselves to newer groups outside the bounds of prog who are progressive. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I believe that fans of many of today's groups are themselves more open-minded than supporters of the old guard prog rock. These bands can play together but perhaps not at prog festvals. The evidence is out there for all to see that prog fans won't accept bands outside their views of prog. Package a good prog/progressive NOT as progressive/prog but simply as good music and let them get their music out to those who simply want to hear good music and have a good time and could care less about some internet jockeys think the group is tagged or labeled. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 08:33
| All this talk about UM made me turn to Mantis. At least this album sounds right up the alley of those favouring the 70s brand of prog (as opposed to the metal/experimental side) to me. So, some of the disdainful reactions are surprising but it's all a matter of taste, I guess. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 08:39
No truer words spoken.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 12:15
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In my humble opinion I think there is enough room for both the bands that want to expand their music on the style of the 70's groups and new groups who want to go into another direction. We as fans are the most closed minded of any genre as we don't like it unless it matches up to our vision of what we expect. As someone who actually has seen UM play I think they are a very good band and cater to more than just a prog audience. Maybe this is the real problem with prog fans especially those not willing expand beyond the 70's or those that think that regulated noise is the intellectual equivalent to musical nirvana. I have never met more closed minded people than prog fans for the most part. Very few are willing to step outside the comfort zone of what they feel is the real deal. I have been guilty of that at times myself but I am making a supreme effort at my age to not be a stick in the mud fuddy duddy. . I read a comment of a guitar player of a band I really like that described UM as vanilla. Okay his band styles themselves on the 70's fusion sounds and rarely steps out that style and he dares to call a band willing to step outside of it's comfort zone vanilla It is this kind of comment I am starting to resent. First of all what is wrong with vanilla? Just like any other flavor if you eat it too much it tastes the same. I do not think UM falls into that. They vary their style a lot. I also wonder about this guitar player and is he just jealous of the fact that his live appearances equal roughly once or twice a year? I think we all need to open our minds and relax our sphincters a couple of notches. I would have paid to see the Nearfest lineup if I did not have to get on an airplane to see it. I do it all the time with Calprog however so I do put my money where my mouth is.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 12:26
Thanks for posting that Tony. It looks to me that this list of line-up shows that the source of the problem was easily the lack of really interesting (big? exciting? dunno what to put there) names that could make the fans decide for going. As for the "prog" quotient, I see a lot of names outside the safe area of a regular progger, still the festival was successful until now. I see a good balance of "great names" (classics), new interesting bands and more "difficult" bands. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 13:32
| It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the organisers, surely there is more to this than meets the eye. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 16:03
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thanks Roger.. . Thinking back to the immortal Damone. It's 'the attitude'.... fertilize the internet with enough sh*t and sooner or later something might grow hahha
I couldn't agree more Brian. Great post.I saw the posts you are referring too.... yet another sorry episode in this affair. Today's episode seems to be the honest thoughts of attendee being lambasted as the ravings of a troll because he said something that obviously hit a little too close to comfort for some. Pretty damn hard to see something an outsider might see... when your ass is planted firmly on the inside. Pretty funny if you ask me since the cliquish nature of this particular forum is a problem that has been acknowledged by many on that site. Even to point of soliciting ideas to make 'outsiders' feel more welcome. Should be no surprise that with the symbiotic relationship between the site and Nearfest.. that insider/outsider nature would naturally reproduce itself. For me I could care less. As long I had beer, smokes between shows, along with HT, Raff, David, and Walter to shoot the bull with I was happy. As I said over at PE's.. if I sense a clique.. the LAST thing I'd want to do is try to be a part of it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 16:10
regarding the cancellation itself, they did over at PE's if you did not see it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 17:17
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Truly, We'll never know exactly what happened until they speak up. Looking back at the historical lineups just confirms my thoughts: you can indeed please everyone in three days. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 17:30
even then I doubt we will.. at least the whole story hahah. There is a 3rd variable in addition to the audience and organizers that hasn't spoken and probably won't (publically at least ).. and those that do, like UM, will obviously be extremely diplomatic and take the high road. Does anyone really think they didn't read the threads regarding their announcement. You'd have to be a saint to not take this cancellation personally. Then there are the undercards, the non-headliner for whom this was just not another gig... nice to feel the love of the progressive community huh? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 19:17
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I just read the whole thread and there's not a lot of info beyond what it's on the original announcement. They did answer the "why now, not later?" question very well, and I think it was a good decision to cancel now instead of waiting for May. But the lingering questions for me: "Transitional" lineup? Transition to what? What was the logic behind this year's lineup? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 20:09
to my knowledge they have never spelled that out. If I had an ego the size of Texas I'd say they read my Nearfest review from last year where I pointed out the future dilemna Nearfest was going to have with classic headliners becoming rarer and harder to book. Since I don't and Micky...only pawn in the game of prog, I could only think of one reason why they'd tamper with a winning formula, that the winning formula was a long term loser. Thus the need for transition.I'd be guessing.. but I sure can't think of ONE good reason why it would be transitional unless they were thinking the same thing I had and decided to transition from a festival with classic prog headliners being the emphasis to more modern faire. One to be honest I agree strongly with, however to be a Monday morning QB it could have been done a lot better. Starting with the obvious... explaining WHY it was a transition lineup and why they felt one was needed. In it's own funny way though, that need got shown and explained. The shame of it is it could have been done without the graphic example of losing a year of Nearfest. My own private thoughts are that they misjudged their core audience and thought they'd buy tickets for the experience, friends and good times, and didn't understand what they really wanted (or what they DID NOT want). ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 20:35
Funny.. I grabbed that CD on the way out the door earlier today when we went out and listened to it again. It wasn't the greatest album I've ever heard by far, but you are exactly right, the group was not as much a WTF selection as some seemed to think. They probably would have wow'd the crowd if they had had the chance. I'd be lying if I said that the announcement of UM excited me but it did make me curious to see what they'd do for the crowd. The part of Nearfest that always got me jazzed were the other groups. Finding and seeing the lesser known, that is what we were going for and I figured that is what most people enjoyed most out of it. The reactions? Perhaps I'm too jaded from years spent on prog forums to be surprised by any negative reactions by prog fans. I do agree with Brian that 'prog fan' can be one of the most close-minded of all music fans. Once I heard the dread 'jam band' accusation thrown out perhaps we should have all seen that this was going to end badly. Though like all, including the organizers I would have never thought that it would be enough for people to stay away.. the undercards are worth the price alone, the discoveries of new groups and all that, along with all the other things like seeing old friends, meeting new ones etc etc. Oh well. It's all really sad in a way. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 22:11
Exactly, the implicit insinuation especially that UM has nothing to do with prog at all is far out because it is definitely from that sphere of modern prog which would satiate fans of the 70s scene more rather than the prog metal fan base. I cannot comment on what part the ticketing arrangement played in it and maybe UM was not enticing enough to bring in 'Patrons' but, well, there was also Curved Air in the billing and would have also expected Karmakanic to draw audiences.
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Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 23:57
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Listening to some UM... 100% appropriate for NEARFest. Significant 70's prog influence there. Funny how some music is defined by the audience who listens to it instead of the music itself.. I feel the same way about early Phish.. stuff like "Divided Sky" is a lot closer to Gentle Giant than Grateful Dead. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: April 04 2011 at 01:26
The first time I heard Gentle Giant my inital thought was "Hey's here's a band making a whole album of songs that sound like 'Reba'". Granted this was in my younger and more naive years but the point still stands. Jam Band music is one of the best gateways to prog. If I hadn't been interested in bands like Phish and DMB when I was younger, I probably would have never discovered so many bands I know and love today. In fact the first time my friend introduced me to LTE and Dream Theater she used the description "they're like a jam band but with metal" (this was someone who wasn't familiar with the term "progressive rock", I wasn't either). When I stumbled upon this site years later and saw how many bands I already liked were listed, I became curious about so many of the other bands, and a new love for music was born. Man, Umphrey's and Karmakanic? I probably would have gone to this if I'd only I'd known about it.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 04 2011 at 01:34
| Leads one to wonder if the protests at bringing a jam band to NEARFest were made without actually listening to any of UM's music. If it is said that they didn't give the audience what they wanted, are we going by labels or the music? |
Posted By: CharAznable
Date Posted: April 04 2011 at 09:45
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I WAS going to go. I have patron tickets. I was really excited to see Karmakanic, UM, Curved Air and New Trolls. I am incredibly depressed that it's not going to happen. However, I can see exactly why. Oh well, you can catch UM any time. New Trolls, not so much. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 04 2011 at 13:15
Yes, I read the explanation. I'm just wondering how they thought they could sell that lineup and it smacks of "someone's" bright idea going badly wrong. |