Gryphon
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74228
Printed Date: March 12 2025 at 05:33
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gryphon
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Gryphon
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 20:48
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I just heard this band's 1974 album Red Queen To Gryphon Three for the first time and I *really* like it. Usually I prefer things from the harder end of the spectrum but this one won me over, gentle and joyful though it is. Their lengthy instrumentals are dynamic, diverse, interesting and inventive. A playful and well executed medieval flavour, reminiscent of Romantic Warrior yet perhaps better executed.
For some reason Gryphon are one of those bands that slipped through the cracks. If you've never tried them, give RQTGT (by all accounts their best, though I haven't heard the others) a spin.
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Replies:
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 21:14
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They used to be discussed here pretty frequently. Still haven't checked them out.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 21:23
| Then, sir, you have no comment. Right? |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 21:26
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If I had no comment my post would have been blank and probably soon deleted by the mods. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 21:55
The only one I have heard is Red Queen to Gryphon Three and yes, a great album. 
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Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 21:58
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Like the others here, I only have RQTGT and it is quite good.
Nothing spectacular but it's a nice little album. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 03:53
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I've had Raindance on LP for many years and was familiar with the Red Queen from way back. Actually just got one of those this year. It was overshadowed by some other stuff I got around the same time. Probably in need of a sit down and listen.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 05:18
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Yep, RQTG3 is a goodie (and there are some incredibly complex musical arrangements on a par with Gentle Giant to boot) The debut album is a LOT more traditional (but still enjoyable) and consists of mainly faithful reproductions of medieval tunes and songs. ------------- 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 05:36
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Red Queen is a great album, and rightly lauded. I need to expand my collection from this band.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 05:41
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I was a bit obsessed by that album for a while. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 12:52
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I have all their albums. Just bought the recent Treasure's remaster about 6 months ago. I agree that Red Queen... is their best and not only... it's also in my top 5 albums ever! About Treason: I was not disappointed. Ok it is less folk and have more than a Yes' flavour but it's still of high standard of quality.... just listen to the 10 mns SPRING SONG to believe! |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 14:08
| I think their first 3 albums are very better than Their last 2 albums. In my opinion "Midnight Mushrumps" is a great album and masterpiece and its better than "Red Queen..." . The title track is a fantastic 19min epic song. Its remind me Mike oldfield's "ommadawn". MM is very complex song and its full of great melodies that connect to each other very cleverly. Each of these melodies make a musical piece and each piece has own accompmanent and chords. I try to say MM built by some musical pieces and each piece is like a song. I mean this song created by some seperate small songs and each of these small songs made around a great melody. I saw this kind of composing in some of Mike Oldfield's albums and I like it. Arrangement is very important in this style and I think Gryphone did it very well in MM. You can see this style in short songs of the MM album too. Finally I think MM is their best album. |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 14:22
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Interesting. I've listened to RQTG3, Midnight Mushrumps and the s/t several times, but I could never get into them. Great instrumentalists, but I simply couldn't find the outcome of their work exciting. I suppose I'll have to listen again sometimes.
------------- Property of Queen Productions... 
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Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 14:29
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^^^ Red Queen is very different from their previous output. And another highlight is Hein Klein Hendenleben... wow... the sound is a bit rusty but it's a strong epic composition. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 14:41
There is no real outcome I suppose..I just enjoy the journey. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Lizzy wrote:Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 14:59
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^^^ eh eh ehehhe me too. BTW, if the listener wants them to rock then he has to go with their last three. If he's more into their folky-medieval sound (even adventurous as Midnight Mushrumps) then the first two have to be the choice. |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: December 19 2010 at 16:55
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Love the Midnight Mushrump suite....music that accompanied a presentation of the S'speare play the Tempest in the spring 0f '74. One of my favorite of the Bard's plays....must have been one cool production.
The Amazing Blondel and Gryphon are two great bands that put a modernish twist on olde English music.
Their later is stuff is OK.....Red Queen has a lot to recommend but, to me, doesn't come close to the music on the first two albums.
Has anyone heard any of the tapes of the Gryphon portion of the Yes Relayer tour? ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: pied piper
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 09:19
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Gryphon has always been one of my favourite bands ever, since I first heard Raindance in 1976, and I've always been amazed by the musicians' skill, to say nothing of writing talents. I dare say that I love Gryphon's stuff because it's so... empathic with my mind: I recognize the melodic / harmonic / rhytm lines and patterns as they would have written by myself. Perhaps that's why I got friend with the band members (I met Gulland in 1979) and I was very glad to get an invitation for their reunion concert (and dinner, later) last year. An amazing night with Harvey, Gulland, Taylor, Oberlé, Jon Davie and Graham Preskett.
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Posted By: My Dreaming Hill
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 09:39
| I am enjoying the track in the OP. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 09:45
| One of my favorite bands of all times. |
Posted By: The Salem
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 10:03
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Amazing band ..Getting more albums right now. |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 16:13
wow!!! I see you come from Italy... tell me more about the meeting with the band... where did you find them? |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 22:13
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The first 3 albums are amazing, got the report that they blow off Yes from the stage when they toured together -------------  |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 17:21
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^^^ they even sounded like Yes (a bit) in their Treason album (which is very good, btw)... eh eh heeh |
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 21:16
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I've only heard parts of the one mentioned album, and really liked it. When I first became a member of this site, the album was on the top 100 PA list (a couple years ago).
------------- Z |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 21:21
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After seeing Red Queen To Gryphon Three praised to high heaven on this sight for a long time, I finally picked up a copy a few months ago. It is very, very good. I do feel that my expectations were rather too high though and it is not the mind blowing masterpiece that many claim it to be. It is however, as I said, very very good.
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Posted By: pied piper
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 05:46
It's a long story... I chanced to meet Brian Gulland (and to have a nice chat with) in 1979, in Florence, after a gig he held with the French band Malicorne. Of course, I've always kept in mind this meeting, not daring to think that he could remember me. But he did remember! I got his wife's friendship on social network, and the other members' too. So, when Gryphon regrouped for a concert at the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London, I was suddenly told, so I could book a seat in the first row. Brian Gulland recognised me (after 30 years!), and told me to remain after the concert. I am a graphic artist (and a spare time musician, too) and I had released a celebrating cartoon mini poster for the evening, which I handled to the group's members (it can be seen on their official website). Then, after the gig, we had a nice time in the pizzeria near to the theatre, chatting about everything. I was really excited...
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 09:33
You can consider yourself a very lucky person. Gryphon's always been one of my favorite bands, but I never had a chance to see them, what to speak of meeting them.
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Posted By: akajazzman
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 11:26
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These last few years I spent a bundle replacing my old favorite LPs onto CD and discovering new/old stuff and growing my Prog collection. I've slowed my pace a lot because I'm in a good place now, but oddly this is the last Prog CD I just bought a few days ago. I'd never heard it before, but have been reading about it for years as a classic. Oddly it doesn't rank as high in PA as I thought it would (since so many of the books out there on Prog hail it as a classic). Yeah it gets a good score, but I don't think its in the Top 100 PA albums. Anyway, its terrific and reminds me a bit of the great Harmonium classic. |
Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 18:38
| I don't like them much. RQtGT was a huge disappointment. I have forgotten how it sounds - haven't listened to it for years, and I've gotten rid of my copy. The debut was more appealing to me, but increased exposure to more authentic folk music made me think that its renditions are somewhat too silly and too 'perfectionist' and don't communicate the all-important authentic folk vibe at all. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 18:43
| Gryphon wasn't ever a favorite of mine either, although I do very much like Midnight Mushrumps title track. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 19:22
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Gryphon was one of the first "Prog" bands I got into long ago (starting with Midnight Mushrumps) and got back into much later, but am now not so into. I like all of the studio albums. I do find Red Queen... too formulaic, though. Each piece is too structurally the same for me, and I would like more variation/ variety in the pieces. Gryphon's version of "The Unquiet Grave" (a traditional song) from the debut is a favourite of mine. About six years ago Gryphon would have been my favourite listed in PA's Prog Folk category, but then I discovered acid folk. One Gryphon album I wish I hadn't got was Glastonbury Carol. |
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:17
That's pretty much how I feel. But I did end up getting Treason after all,and absolutely love it. ------------- Shake & bake. |
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:22
Very nice,and good for you. ------------- Shake & bake. |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 06:02
| The first four albums are all worthy additions to any Prog Rock collection - The first is more traditional folk rock with unusual instrumentation including oboes. They do get more progressive and less folk influenced with each album, but each album is distinctive in its own way (one thing they don't do is repeat themselves). Raindance (4th album) has the brilliant 'Ein Klein Heldenleben' suite which is my favourite Gryphon piece. Red Queen is all instrumental and is their most consistent album and also their most highly regarded. Line up changes affected the quality of their fifth album 'Treason' and I personally find this one very difficult to get into to. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 19 2011 at 20:44
Just let go of the progressive ideas, and simply listen to it when you are having tea anc crumpets and maybe even reading a Shakespeare play!
Try it. ... you might like it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: January 19 2011 at 20:45
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I need to give RQTGT a re-listen.
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Posted By: pied piper
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 04:40
Raindance was the first Gryphon album I purchased, 34 years ago, and I liked it at first hearing. But Ein Klein Heldenleben was a real jump on the chair... I suppose I'd fallen in love with the band with that tune. Treason is a good album but, IMHO, slightly easier than the previous works. Major Disaster is nothing but a simple pop tune (with a strange mediaeval middle eight). Best songs are the opening long Spring Song and the bizarre Falero Lady.
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Posted By: King Lerxst
Date Posted: July 20 2013 at 19:47
| A few months ago I bought Red Queen to Gryphon Three for the princely sum of $3.99. I had never heard of the band but the album art and the songs seemed like my cup of tea so I gambled that extensive sum and was not disappointed. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 11:07
Considering this band, anywhere near the "folk" side of things would be incorrect in my view.
This is electric, elizabethean music at its best ... and probably should be appreciated as such. The only issue is that the sound/compositional side of this is somewhat limited, thus, the band expanding this would be hard and it would likely become something else.
For my tastes, and this is a musically exceptional bunch of folks, this is the high level of musical education in the Brittish areas. And for their work they got an A+ and even had one of their compositions adjusted to match a play at the West End (Midnight Mushrumps) ... which tells you, again, that a lot of progressive and experimental folks, were not exactly waiting for the definition of the music to come alive later ... they were experimenting and working what they saw.
This is exceptional musicianship like you will rarely hear it on most rock or jazz musicians in the popular idioms! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 11:16
| That kind of elizabethean music often bores me, but here it works. Their counterpoint is fantastic |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 12:20
| I bought Raindance recently, and love it to bits! Only one of theirs i have heard, though, so far |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 12:52
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I think there are some nice tracks on all of their lp's....my favorite is Red Queen....
I either play that one or a compilation cd I have. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 12:57
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Seeing Gryphon open for Yes during the Relayer tour was by far the most wonderful treat I've ever been given by a warm-up act. They were warm, humorous, dexterous, and fantastically entertaining. Shortly thereafter, I found a DJ copy of RQTG3 at a record store. I still get a huge smile every time a track shuffles forth on the iPod that dwells in my car. I really enjoy the first three Gryphon albums, and RQTG3 stands out as a shining example of how woodwinds can be integrated into progressive rock.
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 23:06
I was wondering if anyone was going to mention that Gryphon opened for Yes. My 1st Yes show was the next tour with Gentle Giant as openers. Yes sure had great taste in opening bands in those days. Anyway, I've heard a few Gryphon albums and Red Queen... is my clear favourite. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: pfloyd
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 12:54
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I've always loved Midnight Mushrumps and think it is as good as Red Queen personally. I have yet to check out Raindances, but i will soon. ------------- check out my art: http://alexanderbennett33.wixsite.com/portfolio 
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Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 19:51
I agree. At the time I had also bought Gentle Giant's Octopus. A week later Gryphon's Red Queen. Both offered an enjoyable similarity full of crumhorns, oboes, bassoons, recorders, and yes, intricate counterpoint.  ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 21:11
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Gryphon opened for Yes and their "Relayer" show, 16 November 1974, Normal Illinois USA. They were visually interesting, as I recall the drummer was unique in that he stood for the entire show & used his drum kit in a unique manner. I was impressed with their energy and unique instruments (recorder, sackbut etc.). And then Yes came out and blew the top of my skull off. I've never recovered. |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: July 27 2013 at 18:38
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Going way back when I first was introduced to Yes, and I'm talking 1972, CTTE was the 1st album I bought. It was a hard album to top. My 1st Gentle Giant album was Free Hand and it took me about a year to warm up to because I always compared it to Yes. Over the years Free Hand is almost on par with CTTE. So predictably my 1st Gryphon album was RQTG3. Again this took about a year to warm up to because i was comparing it to GG. Since then I've come to appreciate all 3 great albums for possessing unique qualities in their own right. I think everyone should have RQTG3 in their collection. It really is a quite unique astonishing album. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: March 04 2016 at 23:54
Gryphon had one of the more extreme changes between their debut and second LPs, with the first largely given over to traditional folk tunes, though admittedly far from traditional arrangements. Done to often hilarious effect, especially in Estampie, where the bassoon player slips in riffs from Chattanooga Choo Choo, Somewhere Over the Rainbow, and the main riff from Cream’s Politician. The Devil and the Farmer’s Wife is one of the funnier things put to record, with its voice characterizations of the Devil and the Little Devils, the varied guitar treatments, and the hilariously out-of-place Maple Leaf Rag riff at the end.RQTG3 is, as noted by others in this thread, is an astonishing album. In its own way, I think it equals King Crimson’s best work in its contrasts of quiet, pastoral moments to ones more driving and rhythmic.Midnight Mushrumps I’ve found a bit harder to get close to but it has its great moments too.Raindance may actually be my favorite, though it has shorter tracks (except for the epic Ein Klein Heldenleben). The title track is one of the more evocative instrumentals I’ve ever heard, and its effortless segue into the Beatles’ Mother Nature’s Son gets me every time.Treason I very recently bought,
and my immediate impression was that it sounds like a whole other band recorded
it (which is partially true) but not awful by any means.
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Posted By: Lewa
Date Posted: March 09 2016 at 17:24
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Yes, Gryphon! As I'm also into the darker side of prog, I discovered them way to late. The folk label might be a bit misleading where Red Queen is concerned. Maybe that's why I ignored it for so long. It's really great for anyone who likes woodwinds and inctricate counterpoint. People into these aspects should give Gryphon a chance, even if they are sceptical about folk! Check out, midnight mushrooms as well OP, it's nearly as great imho. The comments here make me consider getting Rain Dances as well. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: March 09 2016 at 18:37
| Only know their first and RQTGT, which are very different, and I don't like either. For the first, so many bands did similar work much better. It sounds soulless and without emotion to me, like a medieval musician afraid that slipping up might mean a premature beheading. As for RQTGT, no matter how many times I listened I found it just so much uninteresting doodling. I've never tried anything else |
Posted By: Replayer
Date Posted: March 10 2016 at 11:48
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I own all Gryphon studio albums except Treason. My favorite are Gryphon and RQTGT, so if you don't like those, I don't recommend Midnight Mushrumps and Raindances, either. I find the material duller, but that's partly because I prefer their livelier and Renaissaince-influenced material such as Kemp's Jig, Estampie, the Juniper Suite, Ethelion and parts of RQTGT. However, I do have a soft spot for the last track on both Midnight Mushrumps and Raindances, Ethelion and (Ein Klein) Heldenleben, respectively.
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Posted By: crushingteeth
Date Posted: May 02 2016 at 18:32
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Treason is definitely one of my favorites of their material. I love the apparent classical influence in Red Queen to Gryphon Three but Treason has some weird melodies that get stuck in my head quite a lot (chorus of Round & Round especially). ------------- Cut your limbs free. |
Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: May 03 2016 at 00:31
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I like the first three albums. I really like them. Radiance is (for me) not a great album. I've just done a review on it. yestarday or so. Treason is pretty nice, though. |