The Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs
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Topic: The Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs
Posted By: Juan Carlos de Mulde
Subject: The Voice Of Gabriel or Collins in Genesis Songs
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 17:52
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Hm I searched for a topic in this way and I couldn't find anything? I'm wondering why? Ok, the question is easy: Do you prefer the vocals of Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel in the old Genesis songs Peter Gabriel sung? I think the most answers in this forum were belong to Gabriel, but in my opinion Phil Collins is the better singer of both, thats why I started this topic. I mean I read an Peter Gabriel Interview in which he stated, that Collins sungs better versions of the old songs, but I'm not sure. If anybody knows more about it, please add links to interviews or sth. else. Some part to establish my opinion ist, that Collins was singing, when he has to sing, and not drumming. Peter wanted to did more "art" in is appearance like costumes and using the flute or the bass drum for example. Maybe this is the reason why he overdubbbed the Lamb perfomance on the archive set from 1975. I don't know but... I like the old Collins vocals, because it is sometimes so intense and more phrased then Gabriel vocals, instead of Phil Collins vocals in his actual productions like the Motown Cover album. I think he started to prattle with his voice in the late 90ies in songs like "You'll Be In My Heart" and so on. This is my list of songs, which are better sung by Collins live than Peter in the studio or available live performances (on the archive set for example) The Cinema Show on Seconds Out Firth Of Fifth on Seconds Out especially Suppers Ready on Seconds Out (the best version in my opinion) (I don't like I Know What I Like as a song, so I don't post it here) In The Cage Medley on Three Sides Live (i think this is some of the best Collins vocals performances) The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway on The Way We Walk The Musical Box on The Way We Walk (mainly of the chorus voice effect) The Carpet Crawlers on Live Over Europe ------------- http://www.lastfm.de/user/SSsebastian/?chartstyle=SidebarPlain" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 18:07
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Gabriel was vocalizing during their most progressive phase and Phil took over admirably after his departure.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 19:10
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 19:14
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 19:25
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I personally think Phil outsings Peter Gabriel by a longshot. I like his theatrics even more than Gabriel's, especially on Seconds Out! Phil is fabulous on Supper's Ready:) ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 19:41
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I believe that the only Gabriel song that Collins sung better than Peter was I know what I Like. The rest...Gabriel by light years. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 21:27
| I think Seconds Out is one of the greatest live albums by any group---Steve sounds amazing and the PG songs are sung better by PC. This line-up should reform one last time---as Steve is playing better than ever live and brings so much to the table. (I can dream can't I?) |
Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 21:29
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Peter sings with his feelings and gives us incredible sensation and Phil is only singing well and right to the note. He still got some feeling but less then Gabriel. ------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle! - Napoléon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 21:38
| Phil Collins has a voice I find grinding and annoying |
Posted By: Tarquin Underspoon
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 21:39
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Actually, the first version of Supper's Ready that I ever heard was Phil's rendition on Seconds Out. So I've always had a soft spot for Phil singing the old tunes.
Overall, the edge goes to Gabriel of course. But I really do enjoy Phil's take on some of the older songs (especially Supper's Ready and Carpet Crawlers) ------------- "WAAAAAAOOOOOUGH! WAAAAAAAUUUUGGHHHH!! WAAAAAOOOO!!!" -The Great Gig in the Sky |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 22:00
| I like Phil's modest, humble voice for the first 3 or 4 years when he took over for PG---but then his self-assured ego voice became so polished it became annoying. With the exception of Carpet Crawlers--- I think I prefer PG voice on the original Lamb better ---Steve's amazing guitar on the live stuff also contributes to making me love the Seconds Out stuff. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 22:37
| I still haven't heard Seconds Out, which I really want to hear becaus I do like Collins singing much better than Gabriels... too bad that those performances with Collins on vocals don't have the flute. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 03:28
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Gabriel by light years! Collins is just a below average singer, very annoying one. Uh, his voice makes me feel sick ... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 03:37
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Phil Collins for me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 04:11
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Peter's vocals have an extra dimension, although Phil did a really good job, especially on the first albums after Peter had left - and on Seconds Out. ------------- 
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 05:47
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From Gabriel era, I love Collins' voice on More Fool Me, and later on - "Like Father Like Son" |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 06:19
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Phil Collins sings Supper's Ready fantastically and the Seconds Out version is probably the definitive one for me. I am not as keen on his vocals on Firth of Fifth but he still does it well. I think Phil's most creative vocalisation of a Gabriel song is the way he performs In The Cage which i think transforms the song to be much more frantic than the original lamb song, i probably prefer the lamb version but the Three Sides live version of In The Cage is just incredible -------------  
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 06:28
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It's good to see some (mainly0 positive comments about Collins for a change. Seconds Out was certainly a seminal live album, and Collins' performance on it is excellent.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 07:13
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PC sings very well on Seconds Out and the first post-PG-era albums. Definitely he could sing, maybe better than Gabriel from a technical viewpoint, but Gabriel had a much more personal voice and singing style and I undoubtedly prefer Gabriel, especially when the question refers to his era songs.
The question is somewhat unfair because we have heard PC singing PG songs but not the opposite (to my knowledge) so we can not tell for sure who of them is best at re-working the other's vocals.
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Posted By: Juan Carlos de Mulde
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 07:48
Why not? With Web 2.0 it is so easy to check it out in youtube for example.... ------------- http://www.lastfm.de/user/SSsebastian/?chartstyle=SidebarPlain" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:11
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The lower register resonance in Gabriel's voice on Carpet Crawlers is far better than Collins and carries a warmth that Collins cannot muster, however Collins's backing harmonies on the original are superb. The song was written for two voices and studio multi-tracking - it just doesn't work for me as a single voice song the way Collins sings it.
I really do not like the lack of timbre in Collins singing on the opening verse of the Seconds Out version of Carpet Crawlers, but will admit his higher register voice is more soothing than Gabe's and that does work slightly better. The problem for me is that he rushes the words at the end of each verse so he can transition into the chorus-voice and then does it again at the beginning of the next verse in transition out of the chorus, for example "The porcelain manikin with shattered skin fears attack" is sung by Gabriel as three distinct phrases that fit the music, but with Collins it is a crushed forced-fit on the live version with no pause between "manikin" and "with" and between "skin" and "fears". I find it "odd" that a drummer should bugger up the rhythm of the vocal so badly at that point - it really irritates me to listen to it.
To get a better understanding of what I mean you need to compare the Seconds Out version not with the studio version but with the Gabriel-era live version from the Archive Box Set where Collins provides the second (backing) vocals - that is the definitive live version and knocks the Collins version right out of the ball-park.
On Seconds Out Collins is doing a Gabriel impression, even on the Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering tracks, and doesn't use the bluesy-soul voice he would use on later albums. He is also singing in English rather than American (phrasing, pronunciation and diction) - another Gabriel trait (also shared by Kate Bush) that he later dropped.
In general, when Collins sings Gabriel songs that are within his vocal range he is a good singer, but he doesn't have the depth or versatility of Gabriel when he goes "into character" and lacks that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Chapman" rel="nofollow - [Roger] Chapman esque bark in the back of his throat (that Hammill, and to some extent Fish and Ian Anderson, also have) - when Collins does character voices it just sounds mockney to me. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:20
------------- What? |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:26
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I prefer Gabriel's voice on the older tracks, though Collins did a good job early on after Gabriel left, as many of said. I have always felt that Collins' versions of the Gabriel era tracks were a bit flat. The one exception for me is Supper's Ready. I love the Seconds Out version of the song with Phil on vocals. I agree with those who have said that Collins changed his style as time went by. An example-I saw Genesis on the tour right after the Second's Out tour and they did Cinema Show and Fountain of Salmacis and both were done well, similar to Second's Out. I saw them again a few years later in Forest Hills NY and they did Cinema Show and Supper's Ready and they were different-Phil sounded much more like a pop singer on that tour.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:34
| Dean said it. But one point I want to make is at least in the 70s, Collins seemed less likely to run out of range in live performances, whereas Gabriel did seem to wrestle with his highs a bit. Of course, I am judging purely from what live recordings are available and not from first hand experience of watching either live. Further, that's more of a technical point and regardless of that, Gabriel was still the more expressive singer, live or in the studio. His diction is also much better than Collins, who lacks clarity. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 09:42
Agreed. Gabriel was, is, and always will be better than Collins.
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Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 12:00
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I think Gabriel became a much better singer after he left Genesis. With each solo album you could hear him come into his voice in a much more nuanced and sophisticated way. By 3 and 4, he's really singing in the right place. Don't get me wrong--this is not to discredit the Gabriel-era Genesis at all. Vocally, though, Gabriel in that period generated what I think of as a great character voice, and it is a wonder to listen to, but as Dean and others have said, you can hear him struggling with it to make it work. By the solo albums I think he starts to understand his range and exploits the texture of his singing much better. And the poor maligned Mr Collins has a fantastic voice. ------------- The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 12:38
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I think they have rather similar voices in fact. Although Gabriel's performances are more histrionic while Collins is a better singer all around. |
Posted By: b4usleep
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 12:44
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PC is not listenable for me ------------- Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 13:14
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No preference. They're both fantastic. I could listen to either singing the Gabriel era songs all day. Fantastic but different.
Gabriel once said to Phil "you sing the songs better than I do, but not like I do" True, but at the same time they can sound very similar.. 
Because Phil sung backing vocalsf or so long, they are both a big part of the Genesis sound. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Tychovski
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 14:03
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They are both excellent, distinctive vocalists. To my ears Phil's voice has a thinner, crisper quality to it; where Peter's has a warmer, more rounded tone - which I think is why they sounded so great together. I don't particularily care for Phil singing Peter era material, but that's only because I'd rather hear them as originally conceived. Both perfect for their times. ------------- Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 14:08
Very true.
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Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 17:32
Hope Santa will not bring you the latest Phil Collins effort Going Back. Musically decent record ruined by maneric nasal voice. Compared to Gabriel ... huhhuh ;) |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 18:47
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Both are awesome. Regardless of what they sing.
I'll probably always side with PG though. PC is the man too, though. ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:37
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:48
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:48
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I don't like most of Genesis' output, but I think Collis was a better singer. That said, I don't think they were actually good singers. They fit very well in the band's sound and both sound very alike. I really don't understand why people say Gabriel was better. His voice was weak, anemic and slightly out of tune in most songs prior to Lamb, wile Collins' voice had a limited range and wasn't as resonant. -------------   
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Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:50
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 20:54
meh, haters hate the haters that hate Genesis' singers. Everything went according to plan.   -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 22:46
| Actually, I agree with CCVP that neither are great singers. They just do that drama-singing thing well, which is generally liked in prog circles. But I prefer Gabriel on the Gabriel-Genesis albums because he conveyed drama better, while Collins, as Dean said, can get a bit goofy. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 00:46
What this wise man said. |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 06:18
Absolutely agree.  I'd like to add that Peter Gabriel sings the lines with more compassion and meaning, e.g. the line "Through the door a harvest feast is lit by candlelight" the "through" is a half tone lower than "the door" and "lit" is the highest note in the line, which makes perfectly sense, whereas Phil Collins sings the whole song, as if it does not mean anything at all to him (and probably it does not). |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 08:59
Wow, somebody actually agreed! That's unheard of. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:31
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Singing can be a million things, how well do you produce pure tones, how well do you do complex melodies, can you do a deep dragonvoice, but what matters most is how do you communicate with your audience.
Neither Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel can produce pure tones like Art Garfunkel. Collins is probably a little better, and from live tapes was much less likely to actually sing out of tune. But neither can do vocal acrobatics very well.
But Gabriel was one of the best vocalists ever in the range of dramatic expression and range of emotional communication.
I've been watching video of Collins doing Supper's Ready and Musical Box and Carpet Crawlers and it's just weak. There's just not enough pathos in his voice or his soul to pull that stuff off.
One other important point, however, is that going back and watching the Gabriel-era video, you realize how much having Collins' second voice really was an integral part of the classic sound.
And finally, gotta have the flute. and the makeup. and costumes.
Collins plays a mean trapset though. He was a beast on the skins. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 08:43
| Gabriel has a menace in his voice that Collins cannot match. Compare and contrast the "me, I'm just a lawnmower" bit in the original and live versions. Also, Collins adds some annoying bits such as "Stickleback, back back" in Carpet Crawlers (which I recently saw a Genesis tribute band do as well). Collins is a great singer but he lacks Gabriel's character. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 09:01
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:34
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Both are rather nasal and annoying for long periods, Gabriel less so.
In fact I would go as far as to say that they are my least favourite vocalists from "all the greats" in prog..... ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 10:59
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well they are definitly not Freddy Mercury -------------  
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:40
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Collins was, in the early years after he took over, a perfectly competent vocalist, especially considering what he had to follow. But he isn't Peter Gabriel by a very long way. But few, if any people, are fit to compare with this most charismatic of all 70s vocalists.. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: DomValela
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:50
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I think that they're both great vocalists, but for different reasons. On a technical level, PC is probably better...you hear his seemingly infinite range jump around throughout Seconds Out, really. But PG is more soulful and dramatic, and his rasps and nasal notes add to the effect that he tries to give his vocal parts (at least in the Genesis material. His 80's and 90's vocals are much more controlled and...normal. Still great! )
------------- ...all around, all around, all around, all around... |
Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 12:42
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I have always loved Genesis. Musically I like the PG years more, but for music AND voice, I would say my favorite era of Genesis is 1976-78. The hackett/collins years (including andthentherewere3). Collins was a good singer then. I heard he didn't start his bombastic shouting until Conny Plank told him he was "a soul singer" in 79-80. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I think that's when his voice drifted away from my liking. After 79, it seemed like he did more screaming and shouting then singing. I think his ego took over. Thank god Banks and Rutherford were still writing or Genesis, I think, would have totally gone down the tubes. I personally still lean to the Banks written stuff anyways. ------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 14:39
| I do not understand why this topic isn't moved. |
Posted By: Mystery
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 09:19
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Gabriel has a nice voice, and I've grown to love it, but at the start I sort of hated it. Collins, on the other hand, has a more refined voice, which I don't like quite as much. It's still fairly good, though. |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 12:06
I'm not too sure that PG would be interested in singing PC's sentimental slop. PC can't put any real feel into old Genesis stuff cos' he did'nt write the songs, and does'nt know the motivation behind them. That's the difference for me.......Collins may be the singer, but Gabriel was the song.
 ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 15:40
| Phil made it great as soon as Gabriel left. |
Posted By: pinegard
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 15:43
| I think Phil is a good singer (and a fantastic drummer) at least the last years of the seventies.But he lacked Peter Gabriels warmth. I´ll go for feeling any time over technique. |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 17:31
I wouldn't go as far as light years for this comparison. The bravura Phil added to the In the Cage medley on Three Sides Live made Gabriel's album version seem flat. I mean it's everything you'd want Collins to be on an old Gabriel-sung song. And I'll contend till my dying day that what Collins achieved with A Trick of the Tail greatly lessened the drama of Gabriel's flight from the band.
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Posted By: meeka2661
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 00:02
| Peter |
Posted By: sorcerer kermes
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 15:15
| both great but gabriel is beyond great!! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 17:15
Are you crazy? In the Cage is one of the worst tracks by Colins Gabriel version expresses fear, claustrophobia, and panic, his semi yodel creates a sensation of anguish and being hopelessly trapped, while Collins version is flat with no changes. An artist must convince, and while Gabriel version creates the sensation of being trapped in a cage, Collins transmits nothing, it's well sung, but emotionless. Now, A Trick of the Tail is no Gabriel album, but being you entered into that territory, I must say that is beautiful, but closer to the way you will narrate a fairy story to a child, compare with the brutal violence of The Knife, Musical Box or the dramatic capture of Hermafroditus body in Fountain of Salmacis. I insist, miles behind. Iván -------------
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 17:38
| Phil did a good job of taking over - a very good job - but a copy isn't an original. Gabriel wasn't necessarily the better singer, but he had character and depth and a voice of his own. It's not really fair to expect Phil to do the early Gabriel songs and yet transcend what was there before; generally, that doesn't work, and I don't think you can say that Phil outdid Gabriel in that respect, though he too had a voice of his own when it came to the 'new' Genesis songs. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 18:08
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Collins by a mile, notwithsatnding as Ivan says PG's pure menace and passion for voice. PG left 7 years after Genesis began, PC remained for almost 25 years, speaks volumes really if you are a true Genesis fan across timelines.... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 19:05
I consider myself a true Genesis fan, and the reason why I lft the Genesis forum is because some people believe that fans have to love everything a band did, that's not my case, I consider ATOTT and W&W echoes of the first years and nothing after Hackett left real Genesis music, I just wish they would had changed the name of the band after Wind & Wuthering. Gabriel founded Genesis, without him, the masterpieces would had never existed, Collins had an important role, but not as transcendental. BTW: In all his years as vocalist, Collins made only 2 more albums than Gabriel, but none remotely transcendental as Foxtrot, SEBTP or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Iván
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 22:00
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I prefer both when they sings his own album material, it means Gabriel with his Genesis period and collins with his period. Collins done a great work in Seconds Out, but in the Gabriel vocals songs, it's a poor man's Gabriel. -------------  |
Posted By: Bronsonia
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 12:35
| I like them both. I even like the later 80's pop songs like "No Reply" and "Jesus He Knows Me". Phil Collins is personally my favorite vocalist of all time, but I really like Peter's voice too. From a solo point of view, I like Phil's solo material much better than Peter's. But it's really impossible to compare. They are two completely different types of voices and styles. You can't compare Supper's Ready to Misunderstanding. |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 06:05
| Gabriel. Always. Collins is a good drummer. |
Posted By: madadayo
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 07:57
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Great Ivan! I prefer always Peter Gabriel! for the prog Genesis era he was the best!! instead of Phil Collins was a drummer ,very very good , but only a good pop singer for the"pop" Genesis era! |
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 20:51
| Overall, Gabriel for sure. Especially his theatrics, but I think his voice is much more suited for prog, not to say that Phil is bad at all. |
Posted By: MasoTMN
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 22:26
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Gabriel for sure. For me, Genesis is no longer Genesis once Hackett left the group, they should have really changed the name (then again, who would give up the bloody name Genesis? 'I GOT IT, I AIN'T GIVIN' IT AWAY!'). Phil's way too poppy for my taste, Gabriel had the attitude and the theatrics, not to mention some pretty wild lyrics! ------------- TMN - Too Many Notes, stream the whole album for free on Soundclick http://www.soundclick.com/tmntoomanynotes" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundclick.com/tmntoomanynotes http://www.facebook.com/tmnproject |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: January 08 2011 at 13:51
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: January 08 2011 at 14:06
I won't ask if you're delusional - I'll just come out and state that you are. I love Gabriel's Genesis as much as the next fan, and being so, I have to say one simply can't dismiss Collins for the hard work he and the boys just because Gabriel was no longer around to sing the standards. As for your off-handed assessments of the two-album follow-ups to Lamb, learn this now - they were amazing and showed the band was a much tighter musical unit without their former front man.
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Posted By: Altti_H
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 14:10
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Hi, I have preferred Peter's voice since the beginning of my frienship with Genesis. Still, Phil's voice is ok and I enjoy it. -- |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 17:39
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nevermind collins or gabriel the question is is the music good or bad ,ijust love the gabriel era but ther's so much good stuff in the collins era!!!so have nice time with the thing you love ( music ) f**k the rest
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Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 07:46
| Gabriel |
Posted By: akajazzman
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 13:00
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Great idea for a post. I feel sorry for Phil over the years getting compared less favorably in the press to Peter (not just in vocals but in everything). And certainly Phil's pop/pap in the 80s both solo and with the band didn't do anything to help that. Just yesterday in the grocery store they were playing that pop dittie "I Can't Dance". I actually felt a flash of anger. Here was the band that did Selling England By the Pound now doing pretty much the same type of song that Madonna does.
Still, I think the timbre of Phil's voice is actually more pleasant than Peter's. However, Peter has more command and power in his voice. At the end of the day, I call it a tie.
 Of course Peter sang on more great songs. ( I actually do really like most of the Genesis albums up and through Duke. And I can even stand several of the 80s songs (if even they begin to all sound the same after awhile))
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: January 25 2011 at 00:59
But Gabriel's voice does get too theatrical on songs like "Battle Of Epping Forest" which spoils it a little for me. On the other hand, Gabriel is much better on "Supper's Ready" than Collins is on the "Seconds Out" album. Collins is the more musical of the two but Gabriel is more expressive. That makes it a tie for me!
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Posted By: FullMoonRising
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 02:28
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I'm sure I will get and endless mountain of sh*t from this forum for saying this, but I honestly fail to see why prog fans are so obsessed with Peter Gabriel. For one, he's really not a very good singer. His voice kind of lacks depth, and gets really thin and weak at the top of his range. I know that era was pretty collaborative and admittedly, I'm not sure what role Gabriel played in writing, so I could be completely wrong about this, but the impression I've gotten is that Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutherford handled more of the musical aspect (which is what made Genesis good to begin with) and Gabriel just did lyrics/melodies and all the theatrical bullsh*t.
And I'm sure people are also going to cite the theatrics as a reason why Gabriel was so great. But for me it's actually a major turn-off. To me, it just seems like a gimmick. And I think it just confirms the stereotypes of prog being this artsy-fartsy, pretentious, superficial, over-theatrical genre. And I think that definitely could alienate some people that might like Genesis for the *good* elements of their music. I know at least for me, watching Gabriel trot around stage in that f**king flower costume almost kills it for me, and whenever I listen to them I have put in extra effort to try to look past the cheesiness to appreciate the amazing musicality behind Gabriel. Same with the weird "quirky" and "weird" kind of things he does with the vocal delivery (eg, "a pin-up guru every week!" in TBOEF). I honestly think I would like Genesis a lot better if it weren't for Gabriel's weird bullsh*t. It just makes the whole thing seem like a charade; it lacks a certain honesty and earnestness that I think is important in music, and it makes it that much harder for me to take seriously.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 07:32
I'm not Gabriel's greatest fan but your point about the writing is not correct. From their Charterhouse days, Gabriel formed a writing team with Banks, while Rutherford formed a writing team with Anthony Phillips. On the early Genesis albums Gabriel plays flute and percussion, so he's certainly capable of writing music (as we see later with his solo albums). Also, I don't think Gabriel's voice is thin in the top of the range - I just think Gabriel is a very expressive singer who at times does get a bit too theatrical. But this needs to be taken in context of the times when Genesis was struggling for an audience and Gabriel was the front man in a band where most of the other members of the band just sat quietly in the corner of the stage playing their instruments and thus Gabriel was the one expected to grab the audience (this is before Collins joined the band). Even if you don't like Gabriel's voice he has a distinct style of singing so you know that its Gabriel's voice as soon as you hear him (same as for Collins).
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Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 08:36
| I like them both. I even love Abacab. That's right. Love, not like. Times changed. So did music. The Lamb will always be my fav, though. Gabriel sounds weaker on the higher register notes but displays shredding prowess in the same song. Back in NYC has some great vocal melodies but the part that goes No time for romantic escape....is so weak the instruments drown him out. But I do like Petes solo stuff more than Phils for style, not vocals. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 15:47
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Thank You FullMoonRising!!! I just got the 1970-1975 boxset and the DVD footage is hard to watch!! Peter Gabriel's live singing and theatricality is awful and just looks foolish now. Even then you could hear how much better Phil Collin's voice is!!! Ditto for Fish and Hogarth in Marillion. Hogarth is a much better singer also!! ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 17:50
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If only Tony and Mike would reunite with Peter for one more Genesis tour... so we could hear Peter sing Collins-era songs like "Mama", "In Too Deep", and "I Can't Dance" and see if he fares better than Phil. |
Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 17:54
How about endless mountains of agreement? |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 19:52
Why must it be a competition between two totally different singers?
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 22:43
I too fail to hear the greatness of Gabriel. He even won a "poll/competition" about the best prog singer, above even Peter Hamill, Greg Lake, Francesco Di Giacomo (and well, above Jon Anderson, whom I personally love his singing, but can quiet understand him to being everybody's cup of tea). But well, it's the majority voting... |
Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: January 29 2011 at 06:29
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For the record I do enjoy Gabriel's contribution to the band, both as singer and performer. I'm just reacting more to people dumping on Collins so much when I think he is as, if not more so, talented than his predecessor. Gabriel has proven himself a worthy singer/songwriter with his solo material, IMO. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 29 2011 at 15:57
| I quite enjoy the vocal doubling-effect at the beginning of "Supper's Ready," where Gabriel and Collins sing together, Collins singing an octave higher in a falsetto/contratenor mode. Spine-tingling stuff. |
Posted By: JakeMM626
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 08:46
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In a band Like Genesis where two great Rock vocalists take the band in very different directions over time, you almost have to consider it as two bands. Peter Gabriel's Genesis was much more classic prog with mixed rhythms and Yes/Zeppelin-esc vocal lines. Of course Gabriel's voice isn't comparable to either band really, the classic style that make albums like Foxtrot and the Lamb the favorites of many Genesis Die-Hards. On the other hand, As a Die-Hard myself, my favorite Genesis album will always be Duke. I feel like I relate to that album as if it were a childhood friend. I love every songs and lyric on it, and yet it is the beginning of Phil Collins' 80's pop trending. I find that Phil's voice has a smoother yet more passionate tone to it, as opposed to Peter Gabriel's rasp and frantic dynamic shifts. Phil brought prog and pop together, which I believe is a constant struggle of all prog artists these days. Simply, how do you get the common person to listen to a complex prog song? you make it relatable to the masses (Invisible Touch, Genesis, I Can't Dance are all good attempts at pop, but the band by this point has strayed so far from the original sound to be more mainstream. So my argument? I'm sorry fellow Die-Hards, but I love Phil. Just an amazing voice with great precision. Phil seizes to let me down in his solo career to this day. I never would have loved that disney remake of Tarzan if it wasn't for Phil's Voice. ------------- 
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Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: January 30 2011 at 09:22
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