Vangelis vs. J.M.Jarre
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71830
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Topic: Vangelis vs. J.M.Jarre
Posted By: genbanks
Subject: Vangelis vs. J.M.Jarre
Date Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:03
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Maybe the most famous solo keyboardists, none of them is strictly progressive, but both two are in P.A. Who of them is closer to the progressive feel? |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:31
While both are in Prog Related, I consider both to have been "progressive" (approach to music), and I think one could say that both have made progressive music, and I consider both to have made "Prog" category suitable albums under the purview of this site. For example, Vangelis' Hypothesis and Dragon (also include L"Apocalypse des Animaux) and Jarre's Oxygene and Equinoxe. Guess it partially mean what you mean by progressive. I can't say for sure which artist progressed music more, nor would I say which had a more progressive approach to music. I went with Vangelis, not just for his "solo" work (early period particularly), but also for his work with Aphrodite's Child. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
genbanks wrote:Posted By: glenn_ecko
Date Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:45
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Vangelis gets my vote because of Aphrodites Child and his work with Jon Anderson. Really like JMJ's work as well. |
Posted By: JakoCba
Date Posted: October 01 2010 at 20:25
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JMJ is my vite, one fo the first introducing the 6 string bass ------------- I don't have lastfm sorry :) |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 04:10
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I much prefer JMJ, far more sonically pleasing. Glad you decapitalized btw. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: DeKay
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 06:00
| I like Vangelis much more. He has played more styles than JMJ. I think he could be perfect for Yes when Wakeman left and Moraz (great player) took his place. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 06:07
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Vangelis for me, predominently because of his work with Anderson.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 13:24
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Vangelis. Isao Tomita comes to mind as a solo keyboardist as well and has an extensive library. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 13:45
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Vangelis has a much more diverse discography (albedo is more jazz-rock than electronic music !)
I love more albums by Vangelis than by JMJ.
So my vote goes to Vangelis.
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 15:35
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I like much both two, and I mus admit that Vangelis has more prog past than Jarre. But at this time J.M.Jarre's music attracts me more. So beyond the prog elements I will go with J.M.Jarre. |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 21:00
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Vangelis, because of albums like Heaven and Hell, El Greco and Mythodea which are pushing the boundaries of prog in that they incorporate Opera/Oratorium in the best way possible... ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: October 02 2010 at 22:02
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Easy - Vangelis. No contest!
------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: November 14 2010 at 15:40
| I find the music of Vangelis more progressive but I enjoy more the music of JMJ.I listened to a lot of TD and Vangelis and when I heard for the1st time Oxygene I was blown away |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 18:25
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Jean Michel and his synthesizing mayhem. Vangelis also have some great stuff but too often sounds 'sweet' or 'new agey' for my taste. ------------- |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 18:34
| Voted for Vangelis. He had some great period in 70-s, later his works became just melodic well orchestrated synth-pop or new age. Jarre always was synth-pop musician for me. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 27 2010 at 19:08
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yes a genious versus and entrepenuerial activist. Both admirable but Vangelis will leave most creativity to dust especially 200 years from now :-) ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 28 2010 at 00:48
Tomita's Chicks really cracks me up. A man not known for original works but worthy of kudos for original interpretations.  Walter/Wendy Carlos got a reputation for synth interpretations of classical pieces, but this is sheer genius:
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 16:37
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^ Tomita is amazing Check this out. JMJ's live shows look small time by comparison
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 16:42
Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:22
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Jarre for me, easily. My experience with Vangelis is that he's too 'soundtracky' for my personal tastes. Jarre on the other hand was one of my first influences. On a somwehat related note, Tomita never did anything for me. I thought his patch selection was too gimickey and actually detracted from the listening experience. Granted, I don't know that he actually did his own music, so maybe making it gimickey was the best way to go.
------------- -------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob------- I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
Posted By: LadyHawke
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 00:18
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thats fair...and objective |
Posted By: LadyHawke
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 00:25
Well maybe in some cyberpunkish way,....Vangelis would,but nevertheless,who is harder to come up stronger???I would like to see a thread like that???Or maybe some of us...I've been in that kind of marquee,...CHEERS |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 00:26
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Vangelis by 20 votes more , up till now ! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: LadyHawke
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 00:31
EXACTLY...open mind is a great mind....greetings.......we would never be here ...ohh my oh my... |
Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 02:03
| Both are my favourite electronic masters. Generally Vangelis, but hard to beat Oxygene... |
Posted By: kglenz
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 18:34
| Both are great and very hard to compare. I think art isn't about "who's better" - great art is about finding one's own voice and utilizing technique. But there's nothing like "which do you prefer" - although I do enjoy them equally I probably play J.M.Jarre's work a bit more. Unfortunately, many of Vagelis albums sound a bit dated to me, but Vangelis has a much greater repertoire and stylistically shifts into different areas. I do enjoy Vangelis work with J.Anderson & a few early LP's, but Jarre's work is just sonically mesmerizing. In addition to Tomita there's also Michael Shrieve/Steve Roach, Japan & David Sylvian's work, M.Omartian, E.Jobson, J.Lancaster & Robin Lumley, early Strawbs with with Wakemen, Kitaro has a similar sound, Tangerine Dream, Patric Moraz, M.Oldfield, Synergy & Larry Fast, Shadowfax, M. Hoenig, and I really enjoy the 70's moog albums that do classical renditions. I'm a huge classical listener and I prefer smaller ensembles or solo piano, guitar or violin. I love it when high end moog & synth's are recorded well and result in adding a new dimension to works, making them more palatable to new listeners. I have some amazing recordings of Bach with organs that sound like symphonies. |
Posted By: Lynx33
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 19:00
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bitter moon score by vangelis is exceptional
------------- Mindez elmúlt. Ma már tudom köszönteni a szépséget. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 19:29
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Heaven & Hell is a masterpiece of pure Progressive Rock, he made other great albums, so Vangelis it is. Iván
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Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 11:59
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I think Vangelis's music is more progressive than Jarre's. Although Vangelis has more albums than Jarre , Jarre leads by far in my listenings time.I like Vangelis a lot, but when I listen to Jarre the music carries me away in a way that Vangelis doesn't.IMHO Jarre achieves some musical peaks that Vangelis hasn't until now- on a scale from 0 to 100 in electronic music, I would put Vangelis at 90 and Jarre at 100. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 14:38
The term 'electronic music' is quite interesting in itself as Vangelis did not really embrace 'traditional' electronic music in the same way that Tangerine Dream, Klause Schulze,J J Jarre, Tomita etc did. Vangelis uses a lot of acoustic and percussion instruments as well as the synths. Vangelies first half dozen solo albums in fact didn't even include synths at all. Heaven and Hell I believe was his first (although I stand to be corrected) but I am fairly certain that no synths were presence on Earth, Hypothesis, The Dragon,Apocalypse Des Animaux or any of the Aphrodites Child releases. On the other hand JM Jarre jumped right in at the deep end and virtually redefined the boundaries in electronic music with Oxygene.Around that time Vangelis recorded the excellent Spiral which is the closest Vangelis got to JM Jarre's territory imo (perhaps influenced by??) but after that he veered away towards more classical styled composition on the likes of China and Chariots Of Fire occasionally throwing in the odd hard to pidgeon hole stuff like Mask and Invisible Connections. Jarre stuck much more solidly to what he was known for and perhaps for that reason I don't find him as interesting or as progressive as Vangelis.
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 18:39
| Vangelis of course!! he did so many different things,he's a far better instrumentalist,jarre is so mainstream, i just like his two first albums and... maybe les chants magnetiques.vangelis is realy prog, no doubt, |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 19:05
What about V's soundtracks? Are they as soundtracky as his non soundtrack stuff? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:17
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I believe that they are considered soundtracky squared, or soundtacky for short. ------------- -------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob------- I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 01:12
I'm curious to know what you'd think of Heaven & Hell, Albedo 0.39 and Spiral, his superb mid-70s 'symph prog' trilogy that sits right in-between his earlier works and the double freakout of Beauborg and See You Later. Albedo is my favorite. Definitely not 'electronic music' per se. As people have noted, there is piano, real drums, bass, etc.
If you heard Opera Sauvage, I can see why you think he's new age-y, but that label would be more apt for somebody who heard The City, which is really, really atmo & mellow. Its predecessor, Direct, is pretty much instrumental rock, though. That was a nice surprise back in '88!
Blade Runner, of course, is well-known, but an earlier soundtrack from '72, L'Apocalypse L'Animaux, is the one I like best from Vangelis' early years. Beautiful music!
Then there's that collaboration between Van & Neuronium, which is ace! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 01:16
Good rundown of many of the '70s synth/electronic pioneers, but don't forget Roger Powell's Cosmic Furnace, recorded entirely with ARP synths. That album is what got Roger noticed by Todd Rundgren, followed by an invite to join Utopia when they were still a real prog band.
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 11:19
Verslibre, it wasn't meant to trivialize Vangelis' music. I believe Albedo 0.39 is a almost-a-masterpiece,and I quite like, actually, many of his works. The question is the use of electronic devices, and how much 'electronic' each of these artists in their essence are. They might have a vision of their music through the prism of 'electronic' music, 'pop', 'rock', 'classical' and so on...of course this standpoint is purely my personal one, since I'm discussing my taste and observations here. Vangelis, in his essence (in my opinion) is not an 'electronic' artist...he's using synths as tools for sounds which suits him, not hesitating to use band, choirs, and orchestra...I believe his mainframe is classical and contemporary classical & avangarde music. On the other hand , Jarre also inclined towards his own concept of beauty (in a dreamy, French way), but the difference is...I can hear his fascination with oscillators, filters, sequences and modulation matrices. Vangelis is extending symphonic repertoire with synths not unlike Wendy Carlos did, although with different focus. That is not to say each of these artist is not good in their own right. I'm touching two geniuses here. But if there was ever an 'electronic' artist to which digital era did a great favour, it's Vangelis. Even his early works with Aphrodite's Child reveal more high-pass-filtered waveforms than buzzy, murmuring, fat analog sounds. In the very essence, what encapsulates Vangelis is a lovely piano passage on 'Antarctica' with synth tapestry underneath. Jarre is a more for a ethereal melody over ARP 2600 sequence. I just like 'electronic' sounds more, that's it. P.S. I have yet to check Vangelis' collaboration with Neuronium...I love Neuronium a lot! ------------- |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 12:37
Me too (regarding Vangelis), Aphrodite's Child "666" gets some points for weirdness, even if I don't like it that much. It sounds a bit like being on a party with the Manson Family to me :) There is some nice choir and keyboards on the later solo stuff too. Jarre sounds a bit too sterile for my tastes. ------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:08
The collaboration with Neuronium is a bit of a damp squib to me but you may like it.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 16:54
My apologies, I assumed you hadn't heard those. Since you're familiar with (and enjoy) those albums, that's good to know.
I agree! I view him as a multi-keyboardist/multi-instrumentalist who has a lot more in common with guys like Wakeman and Oldfield than Fast, Schulze, Carlos, Shreeve, etc.
So do I. I think synths should conjure sounds which are not already found in the natural world. I also love keyboards in general, so while I like Wakeman, Emerson, Simonetti, etc., they'll never occupy the same chairs as the all-electronic guys. Erik Norlander is one guy who seems to safely wear both prog-keyboardist and EM-synthesist hats, and I enjoy his output a great deal.
Ouch! LOL ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Alberto Muńoz
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 17:59
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Vangelis for sure
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 18:03
And his version of The Firebird Suite is massive ... and probably the most visible example of the beginning of psychedelia in music .... totally awesome and out there. Even Stravinsky's own versions of his directing his own work are not as good as this version is. It really brings the insanity in the music to life like the original can't. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 07:13
I was thinking about this recently, I think Vangelis has given me greater highs musically but overall I'd have to go with Jarre, great performer too.
------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump...... |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 28 2011 at 21:31
I really think that his albums all the way to Holst's The Planets are magnificent ... and his version of The Rite of Spring is out of this world and probably the best one, and the most faithful rendition of it there ever was and I would have loved to see what the man himself thought of it ... even he would have probably said ... wow ... all of a sudden my music has more in it that I even thought of ... ! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: January 29 2011 at 00:58
| Vangelis, by far! |