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How is an artist/band categorized in PA?

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Topic: How is an artist/band categorized in PA?
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Subject: How is an artist/band categorized in PA?
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 15:37
Inspired by the 'Why is PT listed as heavy prog' thread, this question came into my mind.
Is there a process how to classify an artist/band?
Who says an artist/band is symphonic, eclectic or whatever?
How does it work?

I apologize if this question has been already answered and I could not find the page Embarrassed.



Replies:
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 15:48
Several genre teams are the custodians of the database here at Prog Archives. When a suggestion is made, usually a rough idea as to what category the band belongs in is named, and the relevant genre teams evaluate the band for inclusion.

That is how bands get added to Prog Archives and how it is determined what category they fall under.

However, bands can be reevaluated and moved if the teams reach an agreement.

Hope this helps.  Smile


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 15:54
Does it mean, if a band might fall in two categories, let's say in symphonic as well as in eclectic, both genre teams discuss it and then they make a mutual agreement about it? Do they also make a kind of voting?


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 15:59

It is all done with darts and special genre dart boards.



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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:01
Originally posted by Formentera Lady Formentera Lady wrote:

Does it mean, if a band might fall in two categories, let's say in symphonic as well as in eclectic, both genre teams discuss it and then they make a mutual agreement about it? Do they also make a kind of voting?


Yes, genre team members vote on bands.

If a band could fall into two categories, a team might agree to send that band to the team it thinks is more appropriate and the voting process begins with the second team.

If a band could fit in multiple categories, they will likely get tossed to Eclectic (the team I am on).  Smile


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:11
Sometimes we get together at parties, give Epignosis a couple of cases of beer, and then blindfold him, spin him around and give him a bat to swing.  Whichever teammember he hits first gets dibs on the band.

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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Sometimes we get together at parties, give Epignosis a couple of cases of beer, and then blindfold him, spin him around and give him a bat to swing.  Whichever teammember he hits first gets dibs on the band.

The Prog Metal team should stand further away. LOL


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:14
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Sometimes we get together at parties, give Epignosis a couple of cases of beer, and then blindfold him, spin him around and give him a bat to swing.  Whichever teammember he hits first gets dibs on the band.

The Prog Metal team should stand further away. LOL


LOL  Clap both of you!

If you jackasses would stop headbanging for a minute, you'd get whacked less!  LOL


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:21
I know I really shouldn't have revealed PA's dirty little secret.

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Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 16:57
Does a band have to have certain 'objective' properties in order to belong to a particular sub-genre?
Or is it more a question of 'intersubjectivity' and consensus among the team members?

Do you accept the classical view of categorization, ie. that categories are based on shared properties and are defined in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions? From this view follows that a band either does or does not belong in this or that sub-genre. 

Or do you use the proto-type, or 'goodness-of-example', theory of categorization, where team members for instance could rate albums on a scale from 1-7, where 1 is not a good example and 7 is very good example of [genre]?. So that instead of an either/or question, it becomes a question of central/peripheral.

How the sub-genres accepted on PA came into being in the first place, is a different question. Some of them seem extremely internal and somewhat absurd from an outsider's point of view. Eclectic prog?  

My humble suggestion would include much fewer sub-genres, adaptation of the proto-type theory of categorization and an album-based approach. To categorize a band's entire output using a single label is not a very good idea.






Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 17:16
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

It is all done with darts and special genre dart boards.



You forgot to add that the collabs throw the darts while blindfolded Stern Smile


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 18:51
...and that they use the prog reviewers as darts :-)

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Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 19:38
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:

Does a band have to have certain 'objective' properties in order to belong to a particular sub-genre?
Or is it more a question of 'intersubjectivity' and consensus among the team members?
Serioulsy, it depends on the artist/band - there are no hard anf fast rules and there is no right or wrong answer.
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:


Do you accept the classical view of categorization, ie. that categories are based on shared properties and are defined in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions? From this view follows that a band either does or does not belong in this or that sub-genre. 
Mostly yes, but some genres are not based in shared properties.
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:



Or do you use the proto-type, or 'goodness-of-example', theory of categorization, where team members for instance could rate albums on a scale from 1-7, where 1 is not a good example and 7 is very good example of [genre]?. So that instead of an either/or question, it becomes a question of central/peripheral.
Not empirically - of course with artists that jumped genres we tend to go for the genre they are best known by, rather than the one they did the best albums in.
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:



How the sub-genres accepted on PA came into being in the first place, is a different question. Some of them seem extremely internal and somewhat absurd from an outsider's point of view. Eclectic prog?  
Most of the genres were pre-existing, though may have been known by different names in different countries. Ecelctic, Heavy and Crossover are pure inventions - previously they were all in one subgenre called Art Rock, but Art Rock is a broad genre that includeds artists that are not Progressive Rock.
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:

My humble suggestion would include much fewer sub-genres, adaptation of the proto-type theory of categorization and an album-based approach. To categorize a band's entire output using a single label is not a very good idea.
What we genre we call the band doesn't change their music or how much pleasure you get from listening to them - genres and classification are a way for you to find similar music - having fewer genres would make that a lot harder.


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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 19:38
Often it's easier just to throw the dart board

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What?


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 19:57
 ^ well sure, you're English



..yeah I don't know what that means either




Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: September 23 2010 at 05:49
@Dean.
Thank you for answering my somewhat polemic and rhetorical questions. 

There is of course a wide range of things to consider. One of them, as you point out, is that this site first and foremost should be helpful for people in order to discover similar music. I may have overseen that consideration, because I don't really use PA to discover new music anymore. In discovering new music, I tend to go for diversity more than similarity and care as little as possible about genres and classification because such attemps often don't match my 'mind-internal' categories.  

My 'concern' is more centered around the ontological status of categories. A lofty goal and hope for PA, is that the categories (=sub-genres) to a much larger extend reflects the way mind actually categorizes more than establishing artificially construed categories on the (lose and random) basis of the classical view of categorisation. 

The classical view is not based on empirical studies, but on the basis of a priori speculation. Since the pioneering work of psychologist Eleanor Rosch, this view has been seriously challenged. Empirical studies, determined to find out how the mind actually categorizes, show that categories are not established on the basis of shared properties and they are not defined by necessary and sufficient conditions. The proto-type theory, anticipated by late Wittgenstein, developed by Eleanor Rosh and now widely accepted by cognitive scientists, eg. George Lakoff, show that categories are centred around proto-types ( a central member of a category) and that category membership is very complex and is conditioned by individuals' conceptual system, that is in fact different among individuals. In order to describe categories, we need a notion of central/peripheral, membership gradience, family resemblance etc, etc. 


Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: September 23 2010 at 19:04
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Several genre teams are the custodians of the database here at Prog Archives. When a suggestion is made, usually a rough idea as to what category the band belongs in is named, and the relevant genre teams evaluate the band for inclusion.

That is how bands get added to Prog Archives and how it is determined what category they fall under.

However, bands can be reevaluated and moved if the teams reach an agreement.

Hope this helps.  Smile


Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: September 23 2010 at 20:13
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

It is all done with darts and special genre dart boards.


Thank you, this explains a lot! LOL

Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:


How the sub-genres accepted on PA came into being in the first place, is a different question. Some of them seem extremely internal and somewhat absurd from an outsider's point of view. Eclectic prog?  

Also I have never heard of 'eclectic prog', before I discovered PA.
I don't know, how it is in English, but in my language 'eclectic' has a more pejorative meaning: an eclectic person steals or replicates ideas from others and puts them together without being inventive or original. To see many of my favourite bands in a so-named category made my eye twitch...

But, anyway, thank you for the answers. Just wanted to know how it all works. Smile


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 23 2010 at 21:57
Originally posted by Formentera Lady Formentera Lady wrote:


Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

It is all done with darts and special genre dart boards.

Thank you, this explains a lot! LOL
Originally posted by Paravion Paravion wrote:


How the sub-genres accepted on PA came into being in the first place,
is a different question. Some of them seem extremely internal and
somewhat absurd from an outsider's point of view. Eclectic prog?  
Also I have never heard of 'eclectic prog', before I discovered PA.I don't know, how it is in English, but in my language 'eclectic' has a more pejorative meaning: an eclectic person steals or replicates ideas from others and puts them together without being inventive or original. To see many of my favourite bands in a so-named category made my eye twitch...But, anyway, thank you for the answers. Just wanted to know how it all works. Smile

What you are describing is what we call neo-prog on this site.


            just kidding


Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 23 2010 at 22:09
^LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 18:50
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Sometimes we get together at parties, give Epignosis a couple of cases of beer, and then blindfold him, spin him around and give him a bat to swing.  Whichever teammember he hits first gets dibs on the band.

The Prog Metal team should stand further away. LOL


LOL  Clap both of you!

If you jackasses would stop headbanging for a minute, you'd get whacked less!  LOL
Oh Christ! this is really funny! You guys really know how to bust stones. I gotta admit....I'm entertainedLOL



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