Odd time-signatures apreciation
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Topic: Odd time-signatures apreciation
Posted By: Prog966
Subject: Odd time-signatures apreciation
Date Posted: August 31 2010 at 19:23
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1st thing, i dont jnow if im the right lounge, just tough that maybe if we can use this to aprecciate specifics genres or bands, why not apreciate a separate caracterisic of prog? Well, I consider a odd time signature, the times that arent in 2, 3 ,4 ,6 ,9 and 12 (but can be 6, 9 and 12 without being a compound, like in supper's ready apocalipse in 9/8) Not exactly talking about the complexity of the time-signature, but the different feeling that it brings |
Replies:
Posted By: Falx
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 03:27
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I think 7/4 is way overused in prog, prog-metal especially.
------------- "You must go beyond the limit of the limit of your limits!" - Mr. Doctor "It is our duty as men and women to proceed as though the limits of our abilities do not exist." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 03:45
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Check out the 21/16 in the verse and the 19/16 during the guitar solo. Amazing stuff. And it's funkay!!!
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Posted By: Mike_Zed
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 07:03
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the Turn It on Again's 13/4 is amazing, because of how Collins managed to make it seem like a C signature (C = 4/4). I think that's my favourite odd time-sig. This thread seems like a nice idea to me. If we had a composer / drummer among us maybe he'd like to show us an unusual pattern of his idea. ------------- The Problems of the Future - Today! |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 07:22
| It does not need to be an extremely complicated time signature, I love even how good prog bands can make a song in a simple 3/4 while totally avoiding it sounding like a waltz or a polonaise. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 12:23
| The Dance Of Eternity by Dream Theater. Time signature heaven... |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 16:12
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The beginning of Indiscipline is pretty wild. I've never even figured out what it is. I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with playing on up beats, then down beats alternating. But who the hell knows, and Bruford's crazy drumming doesn't help at all. Caravan does lots of 6/8 and 5/8 alternating, or it could be viewed as 11/8, either way it's awkward sounding. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 16:24
I loved it! I don't know how they do it, but i can feel how good it is...
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 16:32
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A great intro to odd-time is the middle section of "La Villa Strangiato." Yeah it's 7 but it grooves.
Another simple one is "Any Sign At All" by Dead Soul Tribe which is a very straightforward 11.
If you want insanity try counting the intro to "Firth of Fifth" instead of just doing it by feel. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: garla1lh
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 16:37
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Peter Gabriel also has a great use of odd-time signature in Solsbury Hill. Most of the song is is 7/4 but he makes it flow so well, you don't even notice! Also I love Awaken by Yes where its 11/4 in the second section of the song! ------------- Smell the Glove |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 18:47
| though sometimes not what i would call prog, Budgie had a knack for such things |
Posted By: Prog966
Date Posted: September 01 2010 at 19:15
Jesus! Always heard bout Zappa. Maybe for that people conside that his sheets are unreadable? I personally couldnt count but the feeling is so amazing!
yeah you re right. So do the 5/4. Even Vanessa Hudgens composers wrote a song in it XD
 some time ago i was trying to play it and saw the sheet.
Loved it --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keeping on, i suggest Two Suns in th Sunset (5/4) by Pink Floyd and Brighter than a thousand suns by Iron Maiden (lets get some prog related here, 7/4 , exactly as Falx said)
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irrelevant wrote:Posted By: D4y dr34m3r
Date Posted: September 02 2010 at 03:58
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there are many... my personal favorite: the sound of muzak by PT. it's a 7... but you feel it as a 4 at the first listening... but gavin makes it groove as you can move your head and enjoy the song... but when played live... kick ass!! don't get lost in the counting when gavin's playing... a friend close to me, drummer too, told me that he found boring finding that odd signatures are played very even and sometimes very evident....but it's a common critic, because some elements. well, after all, he seems to like anything at all :P by the way, knowing that siignatures in 7 are very common in progresive in general, still being my favorite... why? dont know... was the first one i catch when started to listen prog. memorable for me: the cinema show (the entire final solo section is adorable. is in 7/8) the battle of the epping forest is awesome too... the dance of eternity by, is one of the songs that feature the most metric changes and signatures in one song... planet X, has some of the most bizzare time signatures in their compositions, too challenging to play!! examples given: "micronesia", "ignotus per ignotium" and "warfinger". by the way, "alien hip hop" is in 4/4. but the ostinato, is a motherf... sieges even: the waking hours. gorgeous: intro 3, 2 and 5/4 mixed... verses on 4... and 3. and some other... chorus: 4,2, and 3/4 or 8th note equivalent... the solo in 4/4. with a section in 3/4 and 2/4... and all this... is my interpretation... need correction. sense of change and sophisticated feature the most creative odd time work i have heard... and still the one i still like any time i spin them!. UK's in the dead of night!!(and dont forget by the light of day and the reprise presto vivace)! cross patterns!! the bass plays in 4/4. the drums plays in 4/4, the keys are in 7/8, and its sung without a signature almost... beutifull... the solo, allan holdsworth forgets the signature and delivers another dimension. also check on danger money's randezvouz 6:02 solo... and the ostinato. the main intro, is the typical 7/8 too... not too "proggy": Sting's Seven Days, is not in 7, is in 5/8. anyone into jazz/jazz fusion?? well: Esperanza Spalding's Esperanza features "I adore you", a samba in 3/4 hiromi uehara's time control feature many crazy stuff too... and pat metheny's the way up. you can appreciate it in many perspectives... i think. King Crimson: my favorite still three of a perfect pair and frame by frame...polyrithmic workout. tool's lateralus features fibonacci sequence... so, muder the numbers and enjoy. |
Posted By: thechrisl
Date Posted: September 02 2010 at 13:59
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Anekdoten -- Book of Hours starts out in 9 w/ the rhythm section in 13. Quite lovely. KC -- Fracture contains a bit of the old 17/16 along with several other changes. Not many people know Phish's Letter to Jimmy Page but it helps to count that one out in 1/8.  You can catch a bit of it here. Jump to 4:20 (no, seriously) if you want to go straight to it. |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: September 02 2010 at 16:27
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^Thats awesome. But then again, Phish is probably the most consistently good band I've ever heard. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 02 2010 at 19:39
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Henry Cow is a band which uses many odd time signatures.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: September 03 2010 at 12:27
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Faust - It's a Rainy Day,Sunshine Girl, from the album "So Far". Brilliant track. What is the time-signature there? Must be the oddest rhythm i ever heard on a track.
Any drummer gurus that can comment on that?
Here's an example if you don't have the track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABe-9RRYqM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABe-9RRYqM
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: September 04 2010 at 04:36
There seems to be nothing asymetrical about the time signature.
Just some primitive style floor tom drumming that goes: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+ < with a stronger emphasis on the bold +
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 04 2010 at 05:02
 ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: goertz
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 01:31
| And what about Kontarkosz from MAGMA. I tried to extract the score of the violin part but was unable to find any time signature (or "a contrario" lot of , changing all the time) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 02:24
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mmmm, love a good odd siggie ! |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 02:56
C=4/4 ?
Could you explain this, please ?
 ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 03:05
Bruford's a genius, imo....he can even make 4/4 sound strange. Surely the most unpredictable rock drummer ever.......he makes me gasp, sometimes !!
 ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 03:14
I live for jazz/jazz-fusion.
 ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Mike_Zed
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 07:22
With pleasure. The 'C' symbol stands for 'tempus imperfectum' (which does not make any sense but that's music we're talking about) - a medieval symbol that stands for the 4/4 time signature. It is also used nowadays in western musical notation alongside a "semicircle" with a vertical line through ("tempus perfectum diminutum") a symbol for 2/2. ------------- The Problems of the Future - Today! |
Posted By: Prog966
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 15:03
Great! Polyrithmic, dont? Heard 10/4, maybe a not triple compound 9, cant hear very well the bass line (which i use to orient mysef) |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 16:20
Thanks...thought you meant tempus imperfectum Prolatio minor
 ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Rabid
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 16:49
Seconded....I've worked with a few drummers who only seem to be able to count the beats, without elaborating.
The trick IS (appparently).....to work with a drummer the calibre of Bill Bruford.
I WISH !!!!
  ------------- "...the thing IS, to put a motor in yourself..." |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 17:03
Been a while. Doesn't that jump from 13/16 to 15/16 and then to 7/8 after the piano part? ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 18:12
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Hi,
I still think that when you feel something you are not concerned with the time or how many notes ... and when you record it ... wow ... it came out like this or that. And if you don't know what this means, I doubt that you will be as good or worth while the discussion of some many people here! Doing what someone else did is not going to get you the discussion!
I can appreciate the musicianship and the talent to do odd things, but I really doubt that someone sat down a la Stravinsky and wrote those time signatures on paper before they played it ... why can we not give credit where credit is due, to the musicians and their ability to create new sounds, new things, the beauty of which we sit here and describe as time ...
I still wonder how you can put a "time" on a feeling! It's just so wrong!
Cynically I could say that the future will be all DAW/Time anyway and the freedom to create new music's will die ... ciao progressive anything! Hello copies and more copies! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 19:18
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Tool's "Schism" is probably the most peculiarly-metered song to ever become a big radio hit. (They've jokingly said it's in 6.5/8.) I get a kick out of non-proggers using odd meters. Soundgarden used 7 fairly often, like on "Outshined". ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: September 08 2010 at 04:36
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Love threads like this! I learn so much! (I have never studied music or musicology or whatever you call it.) My intuition tells me that it's unusual or non-4/4 rhythms that make music interesting and engaging for me. It's like it engages my mental/math side of the brain and brings "awe" and "amazement" into my music listening experience. What's nice is when this is joined by "beauty" and "emotion"-appreciating part of my brain, as in the classic masterpieces by Genesis. Q: What signatures do Oceansize use? A lot of their music really brings me in. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: jsem
Date Posted: September 08 2010 at 05:33
| Celestial Terrestrial Commuters by Mahavishnu Orchestra - 19/16 |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 08 2010 at 18:36
Man, I want to hear this song now: It's not prog, but it is in odd time signatures:Partially in 59/48
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Prog966
Date Posted: September 08 2010 at 19:15
| Moshkito, i think you dont understood the objective of the forum. Its not to give a name, or a time for a feeling. It's just to listen, compare and enjoy hearing a odd time signature and the sensation that it brings to the music. And, yes. I think its normal that a composer sit down, define a time signature and make a song on it. You can idealize your song before making it. Bach did that (his songs are matematically writen, not "emotionally"). |
Posted By: Nilsen
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 03:07
| Personally, I love Univers Zero's presage use of odd time sigs. It really have that great crazy rhythmic feel, without getting to complex. And the bizarre harmonies on top of that, make it sound even cooler! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 07:24
Another Zero fan. I'm new to them but am becoming a big fan. My sense of time signatures is just instinctive though. I couldn't identify or play to a particular time signature. I can't listen to anything and identify what key it's in. I am drawn to the complex in music though. By the way can anyone tell me if the Darryl Hall song Something In 4/4 Time actually is? Or 2/4 time? It does have some things that rhyme. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: hans@progarch
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 13:07
| Interesting view on odd meters was discussed in the recent progarchives interview with The Psychedelic Ensemble. |
Posted By: Casimir
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 22:14
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The Uzbek band Fromuz has a song called "13th August" which is largely in 13/8 time. And, this is laikely where the song title comes from. (In date-month notation, August 13th is 13th August, or 13/8) |
Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 22:25
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as usual, I have a poll about time signatures http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45057&KW=time+signature - here and http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57320 - here . 7/4 is PA users' favorite. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: September 25 2010 at 04:08
Good choices here! |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: September 25 2010 at 04:09
I could not agree more!!! |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: September 25 2010 at 04:10
Good God, really??? No wonder I could never quite play along with it..... |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 25 2010 at 04:13
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Gentle Giant - Way of Life, Proclamation,
Genesis - the colony of Slipperman, the Supernatural Aneasthetist -------------  
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Posted By: AbrahamSapien
Date Posted: September 25 2010 at 13:51
First thing that comes to mind in Easy Money from KC, first two verses in 7/8. Might be an over-used time signature, but KC, especially Brufford open another dimension in rhythm. If I heard correctly Bill plays 4/4 over 7/8 or sth. ...  |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: September 27 2010 at 05:55
------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 10:00
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"At this very moment
We have drummer a playing in 7/8,
Drummer b playing in 3/4, The bass playing in 3/4, The organ playing in 5/8, The tambourine playing in 3/4, And the alto-sax blowing his notes(nose?)." |
Posted By: Tengent
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 15:36
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Opening riff is 9, 10, 11, 15, 7, 9, 7, 13, 6.. And that.. I don't even know. But gosh it's awesome. |
Posted By: daslaf
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 15:45
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I was going to mention part 2 of Long Piece No. 3 I really love odd time signatures but I have to say that I don't like when the thing doesn't flow... that's why I love Egg ------------- But now my branches suffer And my leaves don't bear the glow They did so long ago |
Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 16:57
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Nothing wrong at all with odd time signatures, but the challenge is to make them make sense in terms of the composition. If they're put in just to be clever or complicated, then it's completely naff and has no credibility. If anything, odd time bars make it double difficult to get the balance of the song right, but then again, when it works, it works really well. It requires sensitivity as well as sense. Trouble is, too many prog bands don't have either. |
Posted By: Mushroom Sword
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 17:35
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7/4 iz fur noobz 7/8 is where it's at baby! |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 17:45
NAH FOO IHMZ IZ PLAYN WIT UH FAZTER TEMPO FTW!!!! ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Tengent
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 23:17
A piece solely in 7/8 isn't unlike a piece solely in 4/4. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: August 30 2011 at 10:29
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65/64: ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: August 31 2011 at 02:35
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Dream Theater is very much into this thing - almost any album have examples of odd time signatures also Planet X has more exotic examples |
Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: August 31 2011 at 02:47
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 31 2011 at 03:28
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taken from wikipedia Soundgarden also used unorthodox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature" rel="nofollow - time signatures ; while such songs as "Jesus Christ Pose", "4th Of July", and "Blow Up The Outside World" are in typical 4/4 time, "Outshined" is in 7/4, "My Wave" is in 5/4 and 4/4, "He Didn't" is in 5/4 and 6/4, "Black Hole Sun" is in 4/4 and 9/8, "The Day I Tried To Live" switches between 15/8 and 4/4, "Fell On Black Days" and "Somewhere" are in 6/4, "Never The Machine Forever" and "Black Rain" are in 9/8, "Beyond The Wheel", "Get On The Snake" and "New Damage" are in 9/4, "Face Pollution" uses 9/8 and 6/4, "Rusty Cage" is in 4/4 and 19/8, "Ugly Truth" is in 4/4 and 6/8, "Limo Wreck" alternates between 12/8, 15/8, 9/8, and 6/8, "Half" is in 5/8 with a measure of 11/16 before a 4/4 section, and "Spoonman" alternates between 7/4 choruses and 4/4 verses with a section in 6/4. Thayil has said that Soundgarden usually did not consider the time signature of a song until after the band had written it, and said that the use of odd meters was "a total accident." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundgarden#cite_note-Rotondi-101" rel="nofollow - [102] -------------
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 31 2011 at 13:44
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I´d say French band Nil is pretty out there in regards to crazy time signatures ( sister bands Thork and Syrinx both included). Vespero and Don Caballero are up there as well.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: mongofa
Date Posted: September 27 2011 at 11:33
| Klavierstruck IX by Karlheinz Stockhausen anybody? It's not rock, but there is a part of it supposedly in 142/8 time |
Posted By: PabstRibbon
Date Posted: October 15 2011 at 11:41
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rJruc5iOGc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rJruc5iOGc Amazing time signature in this masterpiece
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Posted By: TheMasterMofo
Date Posted: October 15 2011 at 17:28
| Anything by Blotted Science is always entertaining for the mind. |
Posted By: p1ll80r
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 06:12
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Ei guys, Have you noticed that RPI band? The song is almost entire in 4/4 but there is a part in the verse that is in 5/8 and I think is very impressive, because this album is from 1.973, and have some things that reminds me lots of Lars tongue's in Aspic and Red of KC for example. For instance, anyone knows the first odd time signature changes in the history of prog? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 17:09
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I can't help but think that the 'odd' in this title's thread is erm....relative to yer culture e.g. Eastern European folk music (the songs that the peasants passed on orally from one generation to another) are often in time-signatures as diverse as 5/4, 7/8, 9/8 and (gulp) 22/16. These are unusual meters for western popular music certainly, but when you hear these songs they don't sound 'odd' because the time signature is sourced from the completely natural phrase length of the lyrics. I enjoy progressive music that deploys metric shifts as much as anyone, but it's probably the dumbing down of generic popular music as a means to appeal to the most lucrative markets that has elevated 'odd' time signatures to the mantle of western 'sophistication' (they originate from its antithesis innit?) ------------- 
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Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 23:50
Frank Zappa Lumpy Gravy 1967, could be a contender. Check 1:38-3:40 The "Oh No" section: BTW the Museo Rosenbach song sounds like it's predominantly in 6/8. You're right about 5/8 part though. Oh, and welcome to the forum! ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 13 2011 at 09:13
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There are a lot of odd signatures in Greek music. I recently went to a restaurant with live music, and some of the customers were dancing effortlessly to 7/8. When I asked one of them later, he didn’t even know what 7/8 was. A woman in his company understood what I meant and said that they called it the 12 steps dance. I have to try to count the steps next time I see it. My point is that what we call "odd" signatures in Western culture don’t seem odd at all if you go to other cultures. Here you will frequently find songs in 5, 7 or 9 (grouped like 3/4+3/8 or 4/4+5/4 – for instance in the free solo dance called zeibekiko). (Looking at the Wiki article about zeibekiko, especially the discussion page, I realise that people don’t agree when it comes to the signature– some say it’s nearly always 9/4, others say 9/8. I guess the composers didn’t care anyway.) ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: November 13 2011 at 13:06
Partly it's about writing convention. I have an interesting inteview with spanish modern classical composer Joan Albert Amargos (who in his youth led the amazing prog band Musica Urbana, not in PA but which I strongly recommend to every prog lover). In it he explains that when writing music with odd time signatures (to be played by an orchestra) you can do it 2 ways , for example:
1- you write it directly in the "pure" signature of each single bar, so let's say after 12 bars in 4/4 you switch to 7/4 then to 6/8, then to 5/8 etc etc.
2- you write as much as possible in a stable signature (let's say 4/4 for the sake of example), and then in order for the notes to be in the same place you have quite many off-beat notes. But the result is exactly the same as with method 1.
Of course this is an oversimplification but the message is, in method 2 whenever possible you try not to change the script time signature and just write the music on the preceding signature. If the signature has to make an obvious change, then of course you have to change it, but only when you have no choice.
According to J.A. Amargos method 2 is much more comfortable for the musicians who have to play the work.
He puts the example of Stravinsky's The Rite Of Spring, which Stravinsky wrote with all the changes in time signature but when he had to direct it himself he said "If I knew I had to direct it myself I would have written it in an easier way", and indeed currently there are transcriptions of this work that do not change the time signature so much in the script for the musicians (while of course everything sounds exactly the same).
Anyway this does not change the OP subject, but just to remark that "time signature" is not only about "real timing feel" in music but it has also a music writing angle which is not necessarily equal.
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 13 2011 at 14:49
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He puts the example of Stravinsky's The Rite Of Spring, which Stravinsky wrote with all the changes in time signature but when he had to direct it himself he said "If I knew I had to direct it myself I would have written it in an easier way", and indeed currently there are transcriptions of this work that do not change the time signature so much in the script for the musicians (while of course everything sounds exactly the same).
I read about that in one of Robert Craft’s books, but I remember it a bit differently. It’s more like he broke up 5 into 2+3 or 3+2, if I’m not mistaken. I found this on the internet (Stravinsky revised the score many times, and though this passage is about his Symphonies of Wind Instruments, I think it applies to Rite …as well): The implications are significant: Could it be that Stravinsky mellowed out and “tweaked” his composition to reflect his current mood in 1947? Is it possible Stravinsky strove to erase the effects of some of the dramatic Russian period that still leaked over into his personal style in 1920, when reorchestrating this piece in 1947? Looking at the scores, the macroscopic differences are as follows: • Meter/time signature. Stravinsky rebarred and remetered the composition, splitting 5/8 bars into their constituent 2+3 eighths in the introduction, for example. More significant is the type of change such as at 1920-4 and 1947-6. Replacing 3/4 with 2/4 and 4/4 with 3/4 changes the implied stresses within the phrases. This is clearly evidenced by the different phrase marks on the flute melody in this section. The recording reveals different breath placement. The article is written by Jonathan Dimond. It’s a PDF, so I can’t link to it, but it’s easy to find. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: p1ll80r
Date Posted: November 13 2011 at 18:48
Thank you for the interesting Frank Zappa link!!! it's possible that the Museo Rosenbach is in 6/8, since the ternary feeling ; ) Talking of odd meters, I'm from Spain and for exemple, flamenco music is full of odd time signatures, but I was asking only to know when prog incorporated the first time ejeje Thank you for your welcoming to the forum, it's full of information and knowledge! |
Posted By: Theriver
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:21
| Do you know any big commercial hit ( does not have to be from a prog band) which is played with an odd signature? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:46
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Living in the Past by Jethro Tull is in 5/4 Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel is in 5/4 (I think, haven't heard it for ages) Take 5 by Dave Brubeck is in (gulp) 5/4 America by the Nice could be considered 4/4 + 3/4 (well.... three triplet quarters at the end) or 6/8 -------------
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 06:07
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Solsbury Hill is in 7/4.
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 06:08
^ Whoops sorry (should have listened to it before I posted)
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 06:32
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No problem! Another good example is All You Need is Love (7/4 in the verses, or rather 4+3).
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: TheMasterMofo
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:31
| Pink Floyd's "Money" is what I'd consider a hit and it's in 7/4 |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:38
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^I thought about that one too. Another huge hit is Here Comes the Sun. The middle part (where they sing Sun, sun, sun, here it comes) starts in 11/8 and continues in … I don’t remember, but something odd for sure!
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 12:08
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are their some odd time sigs on the Genesis ballad In Too Deep couse it have that odd-timing on the drums which just seems to go on forever, is it just wierd syncopation or is it some odd going on? -------------
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 12:20
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No, it’s 4/4all the way through.
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: December 01 2011 at 08:19
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Try to count'em all. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 01 2011 at 08:28
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: December 01 2011 at 09:09
As long as Daniel Gidenlow likes it I'll honor it with all my passion. -------------
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Posted By: peart_lee_lifeson
Date Posted: December 01 2011 at 19:46
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^ Speaking of Daniel Gildenlow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47xlDBV-NJw" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47xlDBV-NJw ------------- PROG ON!!! |
Posted By: MattGuitat
Date Posted: December 01 2011 at 20:08
128 time changes in 6 minutes, sweet
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 02 2011 at 21:52
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Cant forget these either
Theres a 29/16 time signature in there! Incredible complexity
more....
check the middle section of Fandango, drummer plays out of snyc with whole time sig of song... awesome
and these creepy guys!
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 02 2011 at 22:06
YES! Heres another very complex time sig
i think its 3/3/6//8/3/3/5/6/8/3/3/6/8/3/3/6/8/
just for the link here tis
heres how Portnoy explains it
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 02 2011 at 22:11
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This is quite complex = how to count time sigs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=vHgMLLocStE&NR=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=vHgMLLocStE&NR=1
Heres Voices - complex time sig
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 02 2011 at 22:30
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AND I love this too! (thanks aginor
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Posted By: Sheavy
Date Posted: December 04 2011 at 13:30
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Gotta have this one. I've always liked this song, theres 3/2, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, and 7/4 in there. and then theres the Captain. Also haven't seen this one yet (unless I missed it) ------------- 
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Posted By: Sheavy
Date Posted: December 04 2011 at 13:48
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Also Melvins uses a ton of odd time sigs. -------------
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: December 04 2011 at 13:50
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You know what's pretty odd around here? A nice 4/4 motown single. That's pretty odd around here. That 197/55 and a third-point-nine-sevenths time signature stuff isn't odd at all here. :P A guy once asked me what I thought of math rock. I said: They sure are getting lazy with those elementary school computer teaching programs. What's next? Reading Comprehension Garden Snake? American History with a Sheet of Drywall? Indiana Jones and the Periodic Table of Elements.exe?
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Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: December 04 2011 at 14:12
The christmas carol "The Twelve Days of Christmas" Switches between 4 and 3. 
also: ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Gully Foyle
Date Posted: January 02 2012 at 08:47
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Posted By: Turillazzo
Date Posted: January 02 2012 at 15:24
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Money always sounded to me something like "let's play in 7/4, so we can show we are a prog band!" "But Roger, I can only play in 4/4" "It's ok, Dave, i have an idea..." Not a Floyd hater though xD Anyway, I love when you find the song extremely enjoyable, then you realize it's even in a compound time signature. Notable examples may include but are not limited to: Living in the Past, Love to Love You (not a lot prog though), and Duel With the Devil. I love Giraffes?Giraffes! as well. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 02 2012 at 15:47
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Mother is in 5/4 though just saying
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 02 2012 at 16:24
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You can get soooo into this stuff and it will give you such a mind ache! I counted out Dance of Eternity once like 4-5 times in a row, just to see if I could ever get it right........I felt after like I had just drank a bottle of wine!
Well beyond loopy!! -------------   
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Posted By: Turillazzo
Date Posted: January 03 2012 at 11:42
Mmh, I never noticed it. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 03 2012 at 14:57
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This time signature is just so odd
: ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: January 04 2012 at 11:10
no it's not wat you on about ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 04 2012 at 11:17
"Mother" is a song by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd" rel="nofollow - Pink Floyd . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_%28Pink_Floyd_song%29#cite_note-mabbett-0" rel="nofollow - [1] It appeared on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall" rel="nofollow - The Wall album in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_in_music" rel="nofollow - 1979 . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_%28Pink_Floyd_song%29#cite_note-1" rel="nofollow - [2] The song is notable for its varied use of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature" rel="nofollow - time signatures . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_%28Pink_Floyd_song%29#cite_note-2" rel="nofollow - [3] -------------
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Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: January 04 2012 at 11:24
but you said
which it isn't ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 04 2012 at 11:28
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