Books about the early days of progressive rock?
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Forum Name: Books and Miscellaneous Reviews
Forum Description: Reviews of prog books, memorabilia, etc.
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Topic: Books about the early days of progressive rock?
Posted By: Dorsalia
Subject: Books about the early days of progressive rock?
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 12:13
Are there any good books chronicling the early/golden days of progressive rock, i.e. 1969-1975?
This I would very much like to read about.
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"Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls."
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Replies:
Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: May 08 2010 at 22:24
Danke sehr.
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"Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls."
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 13 2010 at 04:24
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I enjoyed Robert Wyatt's Wrong Movements, this was the first book that tipped me off to Hendrix's involvement in the early prog scene.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 13 2010 at 08:45
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Books on the subject exist, but I have severe reservations of many of them. Perhaps my biggest complaint is that American authored books, tend to be relying on 3rd hand information - e.g. sourcing the rock industry press that is notoriously biassed and/or inaccurate (look how bad Classic Rock's research is). - I tend to place Jerry Lucky (sorry Jerry) and Ed McCann's books (e.g. Progressive Rock Files and Rocking The Classics) in this category - although these are good sources of other types of useful information .
There seems to be little and probably nothing written and published generally on the subject by people who were there. Instead you end up some excellent books by UK authors, dealing with an artist or band, so get selective snippets of info about other bands and the scene in which underground/progressive music started and grew (and then collapsed). Hence, check out Lost In The Woods about Syd Barrett, Out-Bloody-Rageous (by Graham Bennett) re Soft Machine, White Bicycles by Joe Boyd (his autobiog), for slabs of info wrt the London scene mid to late 60's - the three books have some degree of overlap of info. Mike Farren's (formerly of the Social Deviants - better known as an SF author nowadays), autobiography Give The Anarchist A Cigarette covers the period - here is more about why Farren became part of the central agiprop London scene, why music was part of this and then he writes about how quickly he moved away from the music scene. Richard Neville, (editor in chief of the London underground magazine OZ) wrote an autobiography Hippy Hippy Shake about 15 years ago, which also gives a sense of the underground politics at the end of the 60's. Further - if you can find it read Neville's 1970's publication Powerplay, which is jumble of information about surviving being a London-based Australian hippy. Then there is the likes of Sid Smith's excellent In The Court of King Crimson examining the evolution of a classic prog rock band.
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 13 2010 at 09:34
Then it looks like a terrific book-in-waiting, for the right author.
Who might be best to write such a book? (assuming they get to interview a good cross-section of the surviving people from that time)
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 14 2010 at 06:34
 Stool Man wrote:
Then it looks like a terrific book-in-waiting, for the right author.
Who might be best to write such a book? (assuming they get to interview a good cross-section of the surviving people from that time) |
The aforementioned Sid Smith interviewed a lot of survivors from the early day for a book tentatively called Elastic Rock - I even got interviewed partly from the point of view of being a fan, weekend hippy and selecting and selling records for a record stop at the time. However, over 7 years later and Sid has had plenty else in mind especially to find money to survive as a freelance.
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: June 26 2010 at 13:06
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Eric Tamm's book about Robert Fripp? I am reading that at the moment. Not too bad. A lot of info there about King Crimson, of course.
Book name: Robert Fripp
Author: Eric Tamm
ISBN: 0-571-12912-9
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Language is a virus from outer space.
-William S. Burroughs
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 26 2010 at 16:22
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I find a lot of value from some of the really well-written interviews with the original music-makers back then, this one with Peter Banks is one of my favorites:
http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes
Check out his site on MySpace, he has a really interesting video interview that dials it all the way back to Mabel Greer's Toy Shop!
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 26 2010 at 16:22
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Sorry, here's the live link to Banks:
http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes - http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: June 28 2010 at 15:51
The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock goes back to 1967 I believe but it is more of an album by album analysis.
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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 20:09
Easy Money wrote:
I enjoyed Robert Wyatt's Wrong Movements, this was the first book that tipped me off to Hendrix's involvement in the early prog scene. |
This should be fun.
There are out there in various forms a lot of information from Daevid Allen, Kevin Ayers and about Syd Barrett ... and Robert Wyatt.
In general, this is an important group of folks and they really have their historical elements in much better perspective than anything else. It also helps explain the parade of movie folks and other people through out the film and the music in "Tonite We All Love In London" ... for example.
I write from that historical perspective, and I am working on putting together a book from it. It is extremely difficult to type these things in here and many folks simply ignore it, since they do not know/understand, or have any "comparative" relationship to the place and time and events ... which means that the only reason many like "prog" is because they like the music and can not even figure out what it is about and what it means ... they just like it!
The London scene, like the New York scene around Warhol, was massive and a part of the "liberation" of the arts in the 60's that were solidified in the 70's, some of which we call progressive because we do not want these to be considered "popular music", and it is not "classical music" ... so we invent a term that supposedly means something ... and in the end, the only thing that the term is trying to do is separate the music from the very arts and people and places that the music came from!
Daevid's stories (also on the website) about his Paris and London days are massive. He also talks about Syd. Few people talk about Syd, Kevin, Burroughs and Ginsberg living in the same house in London ... which of course, puts a whole other spin on those two ... but no one is going to talk to Kevin! And no one here is going to bother paying attention to what that means and how it even forged "progressive music".
In general, I have this suggestion ... it will take a longer detour, but it will be way more satisfying in the end. Check out the net, and see Robert Fripp talk about Gurdgieff ... now see that the Royal Shakespeare Company has a director that has been already playing with those concepts for acting and put together a massive string of works in the 60's that everyone went to and was influenced by ... now check out other bands also connected with theater. Now check out a band that thanks Jacques Brel and then sings like he did and does a mean Bertold Brecht ... ohhh my gawd ... progressive and Bertold Brecht? ... why would David Bowie even try to do that and Kurt Weill?
Unless you make a concerted and dedicated effort about studying the "art form" and its influences, all you gonna get is a planet out in the middle of nowhere land ... that has very little meaning in the totality of the planetary spectrum! And to me, this is the problem with the "progressive" mold ... the majority of the folks here are just rock fans ... and they do not have the educated/stated and desire to go check out any of these things ... to help make better sense of the music. Or the art.
And the majority of rock press books out there? ... they are nothing but family albums of pictures and kisses!
Just a thought ... when you see a film like "The Doors" (Oliver Stone's version -- which is not great but is fine) ... don't you wonder where all thos enames fit and why? ... or were you like most people around Jim, so stoned that they could not say anything worth while about the music or the arts in that day? ... that's really what the film is all about in the end! And many of us are doing the same thing ... we don't care ... we just like the music!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 22:50
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great books
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Kevin Holm-Hudson - 2002 - 280 pages
In this book, the glory days of progressive rock are relived in a series of insightful essays about the key bands, songwriters, and songs that made prog-rock such an innovative style.
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Glenn Riley - 2004 - 96 pages
Finally, here is guidance for the guitarist who's ready to rise above and beyond the confines of simple rock 'n' roll and push the boundaries where few dare to go. The CD demonstrates the examples in the book. 96 pages.
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=cGxXcraZj6oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAg - Rush, rock music and the middle class: dreaming in Middletown
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=cGxXcraZj6oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=3&ved=0CD4Q6wEwAg">
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Chris McDonald - 2009 - 255 pages
Canadian progressive rock band Rush was the voice of the suburban middle class. In this book, Chris McDonald assesses the band's impact on popular music and its legacy for legions of fans.
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=cGxXcraZj6oC&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAg - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=cGxXcraZj6oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=3&ved=0CEAQuwUwAg - Preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zkYIAAAACAAJ&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAw - Progressive rock
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zkYIAAAACAAJ&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=4&ved=0CEMQ6wEwAw">
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Jerry Lucky - 2000 - 152 pages
For progressive rock aficionados and all lovers of classical rock music, this book highlights the 50 most influential and important progressive rock bands, past and present, from around the world. Exploring the artists and their music, ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zkYIAAAACAAJ&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAw - Book overview - No preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Inobm8F_6woC&pg=PA80&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA - Complete Rock Keyboard Method: Mastering Rock Keyboard, Book & CD - Page 80
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Inobm8F_6woC&pg=PA80&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=5&ved=0CEcQ6wEwBA">
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Sheila Romeo - 1999 - 96 pages
Also, as we discussed in Chapter 7, there is a vast use of odd meter in progressive rock. ... Popular progressive rock keyboard sounds were, of course, piano and organ. But the 1960s and 70s were the decades of analog synthesis ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Inobm8F_6woC&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Inobm8F_6woC&pg=PA80&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=5&ved=0CEkQuwUwBA - Preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&pg=PA6&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBQ - Listening to the future: the time of progressive rock, 1968-1978 - Page 6
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&pg=PA6&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=6&ved=0CEwQ6wEwBQ">
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Bill Martin - 1998 - 356 pages
I have written other books that explore various dimensions of radical social theory, as well as a book that readers of the present text may be familiar with, music of Yes: structure and vision in progressive rock. This book, about the ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBQ - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&pg=PA6&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=6&ved=0CE4QuwUwBQ - Preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Jxrtek_vttEC&pg=PT24&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg - Rocking the classics: English progressive rock and the counterculture
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Jxrtek_vttEC&pg=PT24&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=7&ved=0CFEQ6wEwBg">
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Edward Macan - 1997 - 290 pages
Here I can only confess that in this sense another book is needed to round out the picture, a book that tells the story of the progressive rock scene as opposed to surveying the music itself. In the meantime, though, there are good ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Jxrtek_vttEC&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBg - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Jxrtek_vttEC&pg=PT24&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=7&ved=0CFMQuwUwBg - Preview |
-
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=_Ila-R1at8EC&pg=PA124&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBw - Total* The Total Rock Keyboardist: Book & CD - Page 124
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=_Ila-R1at8EC&pg=PA124&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=8&ved=0CFYQ6wEwBw">
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Joe Bouchard, Sheila Romeo - 2007 - 128 pages
Chapter 2& ^Progressive Progressive rock evolved in the late 1960s and early 70s. It was an era where musical virtuosos brought elements of their classical and jazz backgrounds together with rock instrumentation, early analog ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=_Ila-R1at8EC&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBw - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=_Ila-R1at8EC&pg=PA124&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=8&ved=0CFgQuwUwBw - Preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DPZ6AAAACAAJ&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCA - Progressive Rock Keyboard: The Complete Guide
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DPZ6AAAACAAJ&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=9&ved=0CFsQ6wEwCA">
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Dan Maske - 2007 - 112 pages
From the classic sounds of the '70s to modern progressive stylings, this book/CD provides you with the theory and technique to play and compose in a multitude of prog rock styles. You'll learn how soloing techniques, form, rhythmic and ...
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DPZ6AAAACAAJ&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCA - Book overview - No preview |
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=r4bmVbNSnk4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CF4Q6AEwCQ - Popular music genres: an introduction
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=r4bmVbNSnk4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=10&ved=0CF8Q6wEwCQ">
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Stuart Borthwick, Ron Moy - 2004 - 246 pages
An accessible introduction to the study of popular music, this book takes a schematic approach to a range of popular music genres, and examines them in terms of their antecedents, histories, visual aesthetics and socio-political contexts.
books.google.com.au - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=r4bmVbNSnk4C&hl=en&dq=progressive%20%20rock%20book&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCQ - Book overview - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=r4bmVbNSnk4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive++rock+book&hl=en&ei=U25GTKiAKIaeccWmpY4B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=10&ved=0CGEQuwUwCQ - Preview |
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 22:50
Holy heck! look at what the links did to that post ^^^^ sorry
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Posted By: Matti
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 06:30
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I have lately read the few prog books available in the libraries I use, and I must say I'm surprised to find out the low level they have. Well, I'm yet to read Listening to the Future by Bill Martin, but two books by his country fellow (both are American - funny) Jerry Lucky are nearly jokes to an advanced prog listener. Progressive Rock Files (Updated edition 2000) offers a year-by-year running of prog rock history but in the end it does not much more than lists albums by names without talking about them in critical light. The A-Z list of bands is vast (nearly 200 pages) but relatively useless as an aid of album collecting.
His another book 20th Century Rock and Roll - Progressive Rock tells of 50 of the most important prog bands, both classic and newer. The list itself is OK, but again, the text is quite empty of any critical approach or any closer look at the ALBUMS. The book may be nice for a newcomer but definitely not for one wishing to explore prog more deeply.
What kind of experiences do you have on prog books (those dealing with the genre, not with individual bands or artists!)? And more interesting question is: how would you see a PERFECT HANDBOOK ON PROG? Are there any books that come close? I can gladly share my own visions if this conversation gets fire.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 06:44
The biography of Amon Düül ("Tanz der Lemminge" by Ingeborg Schober)..It is not really about the beginning of prog, though that is talked about too in the book, it is more about the Krautrock scene and especially of course Amon Düül (1 and 2). But definitely worth reading. Music journalist Ingeborg Schober and her friend, director Rüdiger Nüchtern (who made a short movie about Amon Düül 2), were close friends of Amon Düül. The events described in the book are sometimes hilarious.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Luca Pacchiarini
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 07:00
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have you checked out Nick Mason's book?
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 26 2010 at 06:55
I'm searching for "Making it. Famous names and Silly girls" written by Francesca Garnett, singer of Chimera that's their (The Chimera) bio in the decade 1963-1972.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 10:29
I'm afraid that like most history, it depends who's writing it, to the victors go the spoils could be a theme song. The real roots of what happened are below the somewhat limited vision of the music press, who always go for the popular and commercially successful, and the visible anecdotes come from bands who prefer to write their own history rather than tell how it really was, in case it dents their egos and manufactured legacy. Why is there so little truth about?
That's then followed up by the book writers who use these thin and censored sources as sources, so we end up with a kind of watery soup. What music literature needs are serious historians who pay no attention to slogans and charts and instead go back to basic forensics. Then we might have a story we can take seriously.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: February 22 2011 at 10:49
Dick Heath wrote:
I have severe reservations of many of them. Perhaps my biggest complaint is that American authored books, tend to be relying on 3rd hand information - |
In the VdGG book, we (I'm American, my co-author is British) interviewed the VdGG guys extensively over a period of two and a half years, and also interviewed many others who were on the scene at the time (members of Genesis, Soft Machine, Hawkwind, Amon Duul 2, Rare Bird, Lindisfarne, Arthur Brown, etc). In a couple of the reviews we got it was mentioned that The Book was a good chronicle on the history of the band, but also gave a great flavor of the times as well (which we were very pleased about!)
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jc
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: February 24 2011 at 03:44
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You can read online Listening to the Future 1968-1978 by Bill martin right now
here
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive+rock&hl=en&ei=SCdmTbuRJoimvgOUvZzlDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=2&ved=0CC8QuwUwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow - http://books.google.com.au/books?id=APmUFlgm0R4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=progressive+rock&hl=en&ei=SCdmTbuRJoimvgOUvZzlDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-preview-link&resnum=2&ved=0CC8QuwUwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: March 19 2011 at 04:17
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I don't enjoy any of these books because they never tell the truth, only peddle their own likes and dislikes.
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Posted By: dEUSx
Date Posted: March 19 2011 at 07:22
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I would definately recomend "Prophepts & Sages - An illustrated guide to underground & progressive rock 1967-1975" by Mark Powell.
Its a good and inspiring guide to the underground and progressive rock music in the 60s and 70s. It wasn't that expencive at Play.com. £19.99 I think. But I will endeed cost me a lot more, now that I have to go out and by all that music!
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: April 26 2011 at 16:19
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There's always an alternative agenda with these books and prog history in any case, even to this day. Look how an important band like1-2-3 was neatly written out of history by those who owed them the most. And that's only one instance of such blatant economy with the truth. To the victors go the spoils.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 26 2011 at 17:05
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This interview with Peter Banks speaks volumes! http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes" rel="nofollow - http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes
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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: April 27 2011 at 06:00
dEUSx wrote:
I would definately recomend "Prophepts & Sages - An illustrated guide to underground & progressive rock 1967-1975" by Mark Powell.
Its a good and inspiring guide to the underground and progressive rock music in the 60s and 70s. It wasn't that expencive at Play.com. £19.99 I think. But I will endeed cost me a lot more, now that I have to go out and by all that music! |
I'll second that, well worth a read.
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: April 27 2011 at 16:02
cstack3 wrote:
This interview with Peter Banks speaks volumes! http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes" rel="nofollow - http://www.themarqueeclub.net/interview-peter-banks-yes |
I thought I should tell you - that link opens the door to a virus that attacks PCs; I only just got rid of it by switching off at the mains then cleansing the system.
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Posted By: 12ankita34
Date Posted: May 13 2011 at 03:15
Really important thread is this.By this i know many books.
Thanks for this thread
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spam" rel="nofollow - SEO Professional in Delhi
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Posted By: boysmithers
Date Posted: May 14 2011 at 06:05
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Hello, I don't think anyone's mentioned: The music's all that matters / Paul Stump http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musics-All-That-Matters-Progressive/dp/0704380366" rel="nofollow - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musics-All-That-Matters- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musics-All-That-Matters-Progressive/dp/0704380366" rel="nofollow - Progressive/dp/0704380366 I'm reading it at the mo.
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: May 20 2011 at 08:31
giselle wrote:
I don't enjoy any of these books because they never tell the truth, only peddle their own likes and dislikes. |
Agree
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Posted By: Altti_H
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 12:48
Hi,
One book handling the beginning of Progressive rock is Paul Stump's "The Music's All That Matters".
The book is not very well written, but is a descent addition to the library. It begins from the 60's pop culture, and piece by piece describe how musicians interested in more complex music and arts begin to form grops that played the music now known as Progressive rock.
I gave it 2 stars out of five.
--
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Posted By: Altti_H
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 12:54
Al in all, I think a better way to discover the beginning of Progressive rock, is to read biography of bands and musicians.
I can recommend:
Chris Welsh: "Close to The Edge: The Story Of Yes",
Martyn Hanson:" Hang On To A *Dream, The Story Of The Nice"
George forrester: "Emerson, Lake And Palmer, The Show That Never Ends"
By reading these (and similiar) books, you will get a good picture of the development phase of Progressive Rock.
--
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 17:07
Altti_H wrote:
Al in all, I think a better way to discover the beginning of Progressive rock, is to read biography of bands and musicians.
I can recommend:
Chris Welsh: "Close to The Edge: The Story Of Yes",
Martyn Hanson:" Hang On To A *Dream, The Story Of The Nice"
George forrester: "Emerson, Lake And Palmer, The Show That Never Ends"
By reading these (and similiar) books, you will get a good picture of the development phase of Progressive Rock.
--
|
I don't think any of these books even mention 1-2-3, which immediately discredits them as serious studies. Chris Welsh is a personal friend of Yes, even in the pre-fame days, which says it all. The Nice/ELP have every reason to avoid the subject too. Check the more serious studies for the real truth.
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Posted By: Altti_H
Date Posted: May 31 2011 at 10:14
giselle wrote:
I don't think any of these books even mention 1-2-3, which immediately discredits them as serious studies. Chris Welsh is a personal friend of Yes, even in the pre-fame days, which says it all. The Nice/ELP have every reason to avoid the subject too. Check the more serious studies for the real truth. |
There is as many "truts" as there is story tellers. Everybody has his own opinions.
For me the beginning was The Nice, the top was ELP and everything after that is just afterglow...
--
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: May 31 2011 at 11:46
Altti_H wrote:
giselle wrote:
I don't think any of these books even mention 1-2-3, which immediately discredits them as serious studies. Chris Welsh is a personal friend of Yes, even in the pre-fame days, which says it all. The Nice/ELP have every reason to avoid the subject too. Check the more serious studies for the real truth. |
There is as many "truts" as there is story tellers. Everybody has his own opinions.
For me the beginning was The Nice, the top was ELP and everything after that is just afterglow...
--
|
I definitely think The Nice and Yes have early claims as forerunners, and though both bands sprang from 1-2-3, that band did not itself impact on the mainstream as the other two did, it was just too early (1966-67). King Crimson is generally looked on as the birth of the genre proper (and I agree), but for me, ELP and Yes remain two of the most crucial and important bands in defining the genre.
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Posted By: Altti_H
Date Posted: June 01 2011 at 06:30
One really fine book about the history (and birth) of progressive rock is Edward Macans "Rocking the Classics: English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture"
I just bought this and it is quite entertaining..
Currently I am reading the same authors excellent book about ELP,:
Endless Enigma: A Musical Biography of Emerson, Lake and Palmer
The latter may be the best and most comprehensive analyze of the music I have ever read (on popular music side).
--
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: June 01 2011 at 07:24
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i agree with the inclusion of this title - incredible detail on the classic prog albums and artists
Rocking the Classics: English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture"
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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 07:58
  ,it will cost me more too!
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I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 10:12
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Let me also remind you that ProgArchives is also getting a considerable amount of interviews from this epoch. More interviews from this epoch is upcoming. Some with bands who has not spoken in public since the mid 1970s. See http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66175" rel="nofollow - our interview index.
Maybe we will publish these as a book in due time....... 
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: June 05 2011 at 06:46
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
Let me also remind you that ProgArchives is also getting a considerable amount of interviews from this epoch. More interviews from this epoch is upcoming. Some with bands who has not spoken in public since the mid 1970s. See http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66175" rel="nofollow - our interview index.
Maybe we will publish these as a book in due time....... |
Just to say you do a great job Torodd; loved your interview with Clouds, fascinating stuff. Was that the whole interview, or was it an edited version? So much more I'd like to know. Saw 1-2-3 at the Marquee etc, they were years ahead. Even I didn't realise what I was listening to at the time. It was the future.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 09 2011 at 04:58
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
i agree with the inclusion of this title - incredible detail on the classic prog albums and artists
Rocking the Classics: English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture"
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Are you sure - but it is along time since I read this book? To me it a thesis on prog rock based on examining aspects of 5 classic progressive rock albums in detail, but elsewhere there is a superficial historical overview, lack of detail, and some inaccuracies. There is, however, an Interesting attempt to indicate "typical" modern progressive rock bands(from the viewpoint of when Rocking The Classics was written), with Djam Karet about taking the honour. While brave, I have to say about as debatable and risky as Charles Shaar Murray's hypothesis in Crosstown Traffic, that if Hendrix was alive when that book was publshed, he would sound rather like Sonny Sharrock......
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Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: June 12 2011 at 02:45
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The trouble with setting a parameter of 1969-1975 is that most of the groundwork for progressive rock was set much earlier, circa 1965 - 68 particularly. Another problem is that books tend to cover magazine articles and recordings, ignoring crucial bands that had a huge influence but who never recorded during that phase, or were bypassed by the popular magazines. This distorts the real picture.
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Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 00:51
What is this 1,2,3 band the poster is talking about? Do they have a discography on here?
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Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
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Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 01:08
This may sound bitter, but from this one book I'm reading, which
will remain nameless, it seems some authors just want to throw in everything
they know about everything "academic" and try to apply it to the topic. It is a bit pompous and
lowbrow, in it's own way. I think a better approach would be to interview the people, and
realize that some degree of fame may have changed them, and use whatever wisdom
life has given you to arrive at what these people and their non-famous peers were
thinking 30 or 40 years previously. To try to tie it into post-modernism is a bit absurd
when you have harmonic "figurative" music, which is not trying to deconstruct anything,
but instead build new structures much like the Baroque, Classical or Romantic period.
Emerson's autobiography isn't really serious, but I read some interviews with him in the
early 70's where he was actually saying profound things about music. It goes to show
that over time he just didn't care about that stuff to put it in the autobiography, for whatever
reason. I'm not saying he doesn't understand what he was saying then, maybe he just
wanted to write a popular book.
I think it's pretty obvious that these guys were at the top of their level intellectually...
I would underplay the dark angle of the Burroughs side for the major players in the more popular prog
music and think that they were just trying to create music more like the classical greats.
They wanted their innovations to be pleasing and loved by all. A lot of these
other bands, like some of the krautrock variety, were a bit too drugged out to make
music that had much of a universal appeal.
I get a sense that some like ELP and Floyd were incredibly mature individuals early on, whereas
Genesis slowly built up this professional maturity to the point where it seemed to eventually override
their artistic instincts.
There is a saying, "Fame lifts up that which is light." Every famous or somewhat famous
person I ever got close to did seem somewhat lightweight in some ways compared
to others who may have had similar talents. I would also put that in the equation if you want
to think about what the prog greats are like. Look at how so few of them stayed involved
in writing more serious work.
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Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 02:56
brainstormer wrote:
What is this 1,2,3 band the poster is talking about? Do they have a discography on here?
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1-2-3 was the early version of the band called CLOUDS who have a full biography etc on the archives.
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Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 02:33
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This group played prog 2 yrs before there was such a thing
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Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 18:35
I wonder how much they were an offshoot of what is known as Baroque Rock?
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--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: August 08 2011 at 05:19
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Pardon my ignorance, I'll need to check out what 'Baroque Rock' is. 1-2-3(Clouds) was the blueprint for Yes, The Nice, King Crimson etc. Ritchie was the first keyboard player in Rock to stand and take a leading role, long before Emerson and Wakeman. Then again, (IMO) Clouds didn't adapt so well to the prog era, Ritchie remained an organ player, not keyboards/synths, and the band couldn't seem to incorporate their own writing anything like as good as the bands who copied them, like Yes and Crimson. 1-2-3 though, was a catalyst.
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: August 10 2011 at 09:45
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Shocking lapse of history.
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Posted By: FunkyHomoSapien
Date Posted: September 14 2011 at 08:32
brainstormer wrote:
What is this 1,2,3 band the poster is talking about? Do they have a discography on here?
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1-2-3 was prog at least 2yrs before prog. Sure they have a profile here, check out Clouds
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Posted By: FunkyHomoSapien
Date Posted: November 23 2011 at 09:31
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I dont think there is such a thing. All we get is handed-down lies.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 23 2012 at 04:05
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A few books come to mind:
"Avant-Rock" by Bill Martin (with a foreword by Fripp himself). It talks more than just about prog, but avant in general. Unfortunately, it barely even mentions guys like Soft Machine, but it does provide some interesting, little-known facts. Also, the author makes some careful observations about what avant is and the things that define it. Again, not all of the book is dedicated to core prog.
I suppose you could also check out Chris Welch's "The Story of Yes", albeit, to be honest with you, I haven't read it.
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Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: May 24 2012 at 01:18
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Chris Welch's promotion of Yes was a big factor in their emergence. As he was friends with them prior to their emergence, this was always likely to happen! Welch also therefore played a big part in the sanitation of the Yes story, so objectivity won't be in abundance!
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 24 2012 at 10:51
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Hi,
Too many of these books are about the star and their supposed value as a star. I tend to stay away from those altogether.
That said, I really think that there are several posters on this board, whose words are just as good information about the time and place, and how this came about.
I know I have pushed this envelop above and beyond recognition to the point that some folks in this board like to comment how boring it is to see it again, but in the end, it is a valuable perspective. Dean, also has fabulous moments of memory and wording about the time and place and the music, that really gives London a totally different feel more often than not for me. I'm more about Southern California, although blubberfish would be a better person to discuss this, but his star won't allow something else to shine!
There are some very insightful and amazing threads here on the history as well ... there is one I participated on having to do with the dark side -- that is the wall in Germany thing ... that was really nice and interesting ... and as for my experience, I would like to hear more folks talk about the time and place.
The tv special that is on the tube about krautrock is magnificent and has a wonderful snapshot of the time and place, in a way that most do not understand how a political/social thing could become so important to music, and it was the enzyme that made it all work ... that is very difficult for "progressive" to define ... and mostly ... it was the same impetus and seeing that special start with "All Along the Watchtower" ... said it all ... while also helping put Bob Dylan's words in perspective ... which we are not capable of doing here!
I am of the opinion that all progressive websites, that kind of visual journalism that was what this music grew out of, needs to be more visible ... and that is the part that is difficult to express ... about this music ... it's so weird to me, that people can not connect "Epitath" with the anti-war sentiment in "The Wall", for example, and these were the some of the greatest themes all over Europe in th elate 50's and early 60's ... check out the movies ... and so many WW2 stories ... so by the time you got to see the COLOR and TV pictures of these things ... it was ... the same thing all over again ... and many folks wanted out of that crowd manipulation ... be it by gun or advertising. That's the only difference between today and yesterday, btw!
But it's a discussion that is very difficult to formutate, when rock fans do not like theater or film, or vice versa. Usually, in these "movements" ... the arts tend to be together.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 24 2012 at 11:08
resurrection wrote:
The trouble with setting a parameter of 1969-1975 is that most of the groundwork for progressive rock was set much earlier, circa 1965 - 68 particularly. Another problem is that books tend to cover magazine articles and recordings, ignoring crucial bands that had a huge influence but who never recorded during that phase, or were bypassed by the popular magazines. This distorts the real picture. |
Thanks ... AND corrupts the discussion and definition ... thus something like "a jagged guitar" is more important than what that sound is when involved with the music. And that is my main issue with people defining progressive anything. You might as well tell us that Mr. Hurley screaming just like Janis in Ball and Chain ... is not jagged ... you will really be full of it, too!
It also had mentioned that film, was far more progressive, as was art (painting) whose break downs started in the 1920's and 30's ... and that rock music was actually a late child for it all. It's hard to not think that Fellini, Antonioni, Bunuel, and so many others were not fighting the same establishment and details that "progressive" music became fond of. I like to joke that the problem is that top ten fans do not follow the arts ... they only follow the top ten and the stars ... so ... us saying anything is usually an insult to their intelligence!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: November 02 2012 at 10:31
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What a good summary as an epitaph to the post.
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: November 10 2012 at 23:26
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No one mentioned Armando Gallo's bio on Genesis, "I Know What I Like." Just checked - still available used on Amazon.com. Might be better than some of the others mentioned because it was written during the actual timeframe of the band's transition from 1968-1980. The drawback is it only focuses on Genesis - no other prog band...
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Posted By: Matti
Date Posted: January 07 2013 at 07:27
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I'd like to revitalize this topic as I've been deeply into prog books lately... because I'm just finishing my script (in Finnish, sorry!) of a book on prog 1967-1979 (UK - about 60% of the contents- , Germany, Italy, rest of Europe excluding Finland, North America).
Hopefully all Finnish members here will be glad for the first general prog handbook in Finnish language, and will check it out in spring when it comes out! (I told about the book in the latest Colossus magazine too).
Here are some English titles I've enjoyed:
* SNIDER, Charles: The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock. It also covers the years 1967-1979 album by album, chronologically whereas I made geographical sections (chronology within them only). This gave me a model which I improved further. For example I don't like the way each and every album by the greats is included, and there are dozens of bands that would have deserved at leat one entry.
* POWELL, Mark: Prophets & Sages covers the years 1967-1975, and the album articles are very detailed in background information but less succesful in describing the music itself. It seems all texts, ie. 80 album essays (not the shorter ones) are originally written for CD re-editions. Sadly other countries than UK have not very many albums included.
(to be continued...must be going...)
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Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: January 08 2013 at 16:51
JeanFrame wrote:
I'm afraid that like most history, it depends who's writing it, to the victors go the spoils could be a theme song. The real roots of what happened are below the somewhat limited vision of the music press, who always go for the popular and commercially successful, and the visible anecdotes come from bands who prefer to write their own history rather than tell how it really was, in case it dents their egos and manufactured legacy. Why is there so little truth about?
That's then followed up by the book writers who use these thin and censored sources as sources, so we end up with a kind of watery soup. What music literature needs are serious historians who pay no attention to slogans and charts and instead go back to basic forensics. Then we might have a story we can take seriously.
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Well said.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 15 2013 at 09:26
DiamondDog wrote:
JeanFrame wrote:
I'm afraid that like most history, it depends who's writing it, to the victors go the spoils could be a theme song. The real roots of what happened are below the somewhat limited vision of the music press, who always go for the popular and commercially successful, and the visible anecdotes come from bands who prefer to write their own history rather than tell how it really was, in case it dents their egos and manufactured legacy. Why is there so little truth about?
That's then followed up by the book writers who use these thin and censored sources as sources, so we end up with a kind of watery soup. What music literature needs are serious historians who pay no attention to slogans and charts and instead go back to basic forensics. Then we might have a story we can take seriously.
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Well said. |
And this is the hardest part of saying so much in this board ... some folks tune out.
But I really think that anyone writing about "progressive", also needs to have a wider view of it ... and also make sense of the videos and the people's very words, which most of these writers are NOT. Best example, is Robert telling everyone that his music is not "progressive", but we call his band the Exhibit A for a "progressive" band ... when in fact it is one of the best "screenshot" or "picture" or "image" of that day and age ... the only thing missing is the Revolution #9 going along with it ... for better sensitivity to the ideas and noise!
It also hurts, when the American scene is left behind ... you hear Robert Wyatt talking about Jimi and the time and place, and he was living with 2 beat generation folks and one pinkfloyd'r and two gong'rs ... and a couple of softmachine'rs ... but it means nothing to any of those writers ... who are not capable of reading any of that or understanding why would Allen Ginsberg be reading a poem or two in "Tonite Let's All Love in London" ... but in this board, no one knows or cares.
And then, mentioning it again, you see the beginning of that "krautrock" special, and that beginning belongs in the first page ... of ANY progressive book ... but we can not look at it ... because it will confuse us ... and make us think that it is something tatlly else out there ... and it is not ... it's the same "source" ... and all of these different musics are a SOLID reaction by a generation to some bad things ... but we're all becoming lemmings ... we don't care ... so we just come up with esoteric ideas the details that do not verify anything ... again ... the surest way to get music ignored by folks that DO know music and the arts and the history ... end of story!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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