Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation - ELP Appreciation thread !!!!

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ELP Appreciation thread !!!!

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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
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Topic: ELP Appreciation thread !!!!

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Subject: ELP Appreciation thread !!!!
Date Posted: March 13 2010 at 22:11

I am tired of all those threads dedicated to discuss why do people hate, dislike, etc... this classic band and first prog super-group.

So now this thread is dedicated to the appreciation of the music of this amazing trio!

I grew up listening to ELP's music and is one of my top 5 favorite prog bands (together with KC, Yes, Renaissance and Genesis) and although that list changes frequently ELP has been a permanent member since I was 3 years old...

It is true that they are pompous, pretentious, etc.....

Prog itself is pretentious and all those things, what is more pretentious that trying to progress beyond the already existent music establishment and develop a new style pretended to be virtuous?

I think that ELP embodies everything that progressive rock stands for and takes it to the extreme (maybe that is why many people dislike it)...

For me its pretentiousness, pompousness, virtuosity, etc. are some of the elements that make prog and ELP interesting and keep me constantly on the edge of my seat although I've listened to the exact same piece thousands of times....

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Replies:

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 01:27

Nice idea for a thread (speaking as an ELP fan of long standing) but you don't need me to remind you that the Atheist -Agnostic Thread contained nothing but the scandalized posts of disgruntled Christians Confused

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:02

I've been a fan since 1977. Remember first hearing Hoedown on the radio and that pricked my interest.Then I saw a bit of them on TV with Emerson rocking the organ on its corners ..wtf?? Soon after they released Fanfare For The Common Man which gained tons of airplay on UK radio.Loved the video of them playing in the Montreal Olympic Stadium. They were so aloof!

The pretentious thing has long been used as a big stick to bash them with.They certainly were no shrinking violets and most certainly didn't underplay anything.If it could be made bigger,louder,faster they did it.ELP provided a full on live experience ,very theatrical but never dull.

Album wise they made several important albums although their enthusiasm started to drift after the Works Volume One album in 1977.It will always be debatable as to whether peices like Karn Evil 9 and Tarkus are just pseudo intellectual clap trap but I love these tracks for Carl Palmers amazing technical prowess and Keith Emersons command of all things keyboard.Must not forget Greg Lake who provides the all important glue that keeps it alltogether.

ELP much to their credit never played it safe.They always looked for new ideas and ways of doing things.They pushed the envelope in both the live arena and the studio.Once they had done everything they could with the synths they turned their attention to the orchestra.Perhaps this proved to be their down fall.Even die hard fans had their reservations .The music perhaps had less intensity although their skills still shone through on Pirates and Fanfare For The Common Man. Towards the late seventies it started to fall apart with the flak coming from the trendy Punk new wavers who in truth had little clue how to play to that level.What you don't understand you destroy.Ah well.

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:16

People who don't like ELP says it's too bombastic and technical! For me, those caracteristics are not bad in itself. I really think the classical influence in their music make it difficult to be appreciate by a large fans base. I really enjoy the ELP sounds especially for the keyboards of Keith Emerson, but also the great rhythm section with Carl Palmer. They made great albums, but it has gone downhill at the end of their career. The 4 first albums are definitely a must have in a progressive rock collection. After that they're some good songs scatter on every albums.

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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Posted By: b4usleep
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:44

I appreciate them :)

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Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:53

rdtprog wrote:

People who don't like ELP says it's too bombastic and technical! For me, those caracteristics are not bad in itself. I really think the classical influence in their music make it difficult to be appreciate by a large fans base. I really enjoy the ELP sounds especially for the keyboards of Keith Emerson, but also the great rhythm section with Carl Palmer. They made great albums, but it has gone downhill at the end of their career. The 4 first albums are definitely a must have in a progressive rock collection. After that they're some good songs scatter on every albums.

Yes, it's especially funny when that criticism comes from Dream Theater fans Wink

. Well, I suppose love is blind LOL

...

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:54

have posted this before (with permission LOL

) and this is a good place to post it again. One of the more insightful things I've seen written about ELP. From John McFerrin's excellent review site...
Emerson Lake And Palmer

LOAD YOUR BROWSER. I AM PRETENTIOUS.

Emerson, Lake and Palmer are quite possibly the world's most reviled band. Now, they were extremely popular in the early 70's among those who 'took themselves seriously' (especially college students), and even today they maintain a sizable cult following, so it would be unfair to say that absolutely nobody likes them. Regardless, however, this is a perfectly legitimate statement on the general level. Fans of punk have always detested them as they would any prog band, but this extended far beyond normal levels of loathing; as an example, one of the staples of late 70's Sex Pistols shows was to burn life-size statues of Keith Emerson in effigy.

Now, this normally wouldn't be such a bad thing, since after all hatred of art-rock and prog-rock was one of the most important principles upon which the punk movement was founded. No, what distinguished ELP was the amount of venom spewed upon them by other "high-brow" artists and their various followers. Fans of classical music absolutely despised them for "butchering" various well-known pieces in their attempts to interpret these standards in a rock idiom. There is a nugget of truth to this, of course (Pictures at an Exhibition is often quite a stretch from the original Mussorgsky piece, to put it mildly), but ... I dunno. I'm sure that a good number of the band's fans became fans of classical music due to their efforts, so that should be worth something. Or maybe the older generation was just mad about all these young whippersnappers infiltrating their societal niche ....

(AUTHOR'S NOTE): While I still agree with the core content of what I write in the next few paragraphs, it's expressed far more clumsily than I'd have preferred, and in a perfect world I would rewrite this section completely. Unfortunately, there are a few reader comments that directly reference it, and I don't want to make them anachronistic, so it's staying. Even if I'd rather it didn't. Just remember that I wrote this when I was 19, and that I'm way older than that now.

The greatest insult of all, of course, is that even among some prog lovers, they're hated like crazy! Now, prog is often considered a relatively open-ended term, and many are eager to classify any band with the least bit of 'artsy' leanings as one (on the other hand, the definition held by many often excludes those should be considered prog; if Can isn't at least somewhat of a prog band, then I don't know anything about anything). Hence, many groups are GROSSLY misclassified in this genre. Styx, Journey, Kansas ... all are talentless (well, ok, they're talented at their instruments, so if you want, let's say tasteless instead) buffoons with large egos but little else, and let's face it, you really need compositional talent to be a decent prog group (Kansas and Styx are basically prog groups, but they're so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that they can and should be ignored). The Moody Blues and Procol Harum often get the tag, but that's only because of the slight symphonic elements in their sound (from mellotron in the former, organs in the latter); both are most definitely rooted in pop, and it should definitely be noted that the former's concepts are never as overwhelmingly bizarre as one would expect from a true prog band (not to mention that the chord progressions are never in the least bit intimidating). Jethro Tull ... well, Jethro Tull was a prog band for the bulk of the 70's, sure, but with a couple of MAJOR exceptions, their progressive stuff was extremely second-rate; I vastly prefer to think of Tull in terms of Teacher and the like as opposed to garbage like Minstrel in the Gallery. And finally, it is highly tempting to refer to Pink Floyd as progressive, but ... avant-garde yes. Artsy, yes. "Pretentious," yes. But the lyrics are, again, always either psychedelic, folk, pop, or hyper-angsty. They weren't really prog outside of Meddle and Animals, if you ask me. Anyway, the whole point of this is that among English speaking groups (I'm not even going to try and fake any knowledge about German prog or anything like that), there are really five widely acknowledged "classic" prog groups (and yes, I'm aware of the existence of Gentle Giant and Van Der Graff (Generator), but I'm speaking of widely acknowledged groups, groups that a casual rock fan who may know vaguely enough about prog to have made some level of judgement will recognize): Yes, ELP, Rush (though that's debatable), Genesis (the Gabriel-era stuff plus Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering, that is), and first-period King Crimson (later incarnations of King Crimson were most certainly prog, but not in the "classic" definition of the word, nor did they strive to be after the initial incarnation). And almost universally, ELP is considered the worst of all of these.

Now, for many, a sufficient explanation of this is simply, "ELP sucks!". Needless to say, I think that is a grave mistake (myself, I would rate them third on the list, behind Yes and Genesis - note, however, that I now consider King Crimson's whole career on par with those bands, even if the initial incarnation only has two albums worth caring about), but I think I can make a good estimation on the real reasons people despise this band. The first, and the most obvious, was the group's relatively heavy emphasis on classical music in their sound. Yes, progressive rock almost always has at least a tinge of some classical elements, but ELP's music had the greatest concentration of it in their music, BY FAR. Now, it's not as if that was the only type of music they did, not at all, but among their discography you can find covers of Copeland, Holst, Bartok, and they even did a full album rendition of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. Their self-penned material would also sometimes have a pure 'orchestral' feel as well, and they even managed to create a new and totally bizarre genre, the 'rock-symphony.'

The band's classical leanings, however, are not the only significant difference between ELP and the others on the list. A key thing to note about ELP is that, besides King Crimson, none of the others on the list were prog-groups from the get-go. Yes started as a jazzy, psychedelic rock band, and it wasn't until their third LP that they really became Yes as we know them. Rush began as a hard-rock garage band, modeling themselves after Led Zeppelin and Cream. And Genesis, well, Genesis started as a bunch of teenagers trying to sell pop songs to the public and not succeeding one iota (which is a shame, seeing as there are tons of great melodies on their debut). ELP, however, was "pretentious" and progressive from the very beginning, which makes sense. Both Keith Emerson (The Nice) and Greg Lake (King Crimson) were former key members of groups that had pretty much created the genre, and as such one could only expect them to continue what they seemed to have a knack for. Add in Carl Palmer's technically perfect drumming, and you have a group created for pretentiousness and lots of it.

There is one more aspect that sets ELP apart from the other groups, and that deals with the center of the band's sound. Rush focused on the blistering chops of their guitar and bass players. Yes, regardless of Wakeman's presence, rotated around their amazing bassist, Chris Squire. Genesis tried to emphasize Peter Gabriel's vocals and his bizarre fantasies over the chops of the group, which were definitely fine overall but hardly in the super-elite level of the rock world. In the Court of the Crimson King, regardless of all of the mellotrons, was extremely guitar heavy, not to mention the saxophones and other reed instruments. ELP, however, did not revolve around a guitar or bass player like the others. ELP was always centered on the keyboards of Keith Emerson. Now, it's not that he was a bad player, FAR from it. It's just that, well, he could be a bit too showoffy. Plus the fact that he often employed some extremely bizarre and occasionally annoying synth tones that few others would even touch. And since most people would rather hear guitar w**king than synth w**king, it's only natural that there would be a huge turn-away from this group.

I think I have made it sufficiently clear that ELP is not for everyone. The thing is, for the longest time I refused to give them even the slightest chance, and that's a shame, because they're really quite good! For starters, each of them was a highly talented and extremely professional musician, and even haters of the band have to give them that. Keith Emerson, let's face it, was almost indisputably the greatest keyboardist on earth, hands down (I think he was officially given the title by some renowned magazine twenty five times in a period of thirty years). Hence, he was often able to make large parts of the group's compositions come alive by the sheer force of his talent alone, whereas in the hands of any lesser player it might have been deadly boring. Meanwhile, just as important for the group was vocalist/guitarist/bassist Greg Lake. With the exception of Justin Hayward and a few others, almost nobody was a better rock singer than him in the 70's. He was always able to add incredible power and powerful emotional content to the highly abstract and bizarre lyrics that always accompanied the group's music. And one should certainly not minimize his guitar and bass playing, not at all. And finally, there was drummer Carl Palmer, as fine a prog drummer as one could find in the world; with an impeccably fluid and solid playing technique, his playing abilities in the prog universe were surpassed only by Bill Bruford himself.

The fact remains, however, that impeccable instrumental technique is not the only requirement for being a good and distinctive progressive rock band. After all, if all I cared about was great playing abilities, I would be sitting here reviewing various jazz recordings rather than talking about rock and its various forms. You see, it's a common misconception that the band was primarily a medium for the grandiose ambitions of Emerson. Now, don't get me wrong, the man could write an excellent and supremely catchy synth jam (Karn Evil 9.1 in particular), but in no way was Keith the creative epicenter of the band's music (at least, most of the time, when the band was at its best). No, that honor fell to Lake, who was an extremely talented pop song and ballad writer. I mean, grandiose and overblown as Tarkus is, it's really just three short, very catchy Lake numbers whose various musical themes are expanded upon with the help of Keith's synths and are reprised in just the right amounts. And that's hardly the only example, as great songs like Lucky Man or Still, You Turn Me On will show.

In any case, the point I'm trying to make is that the music of ELP, in general, is nowhere near as intimidating as it is often made out to be. If you're looking for solid pop and rock embellished with a bit of jazz and a healthy amount of classical and symphonic aspirations, you shouldn't be afraid to give them a try. I used to rate them as a two-star band, but surprisingly found that my enjoyment of the band has only increased over time (in particular, the debut REALLY grew on me, as you'll see in a bit), so a three-star rating (out of five) seems appropriate enough. Now go ahead and flame me for liking them as much as, say, Led Zeppelin.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:00

***thinks about ELP, shudders, and moves on...***

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:02

Raff wrote:

Yes, it's especially funny when that criticism comes from Dream Theater fans Wink

. Well, I suppose love is blind LOL

...

Yes, i am a DT fan and i like technical music but not simply technical like the band Protest for Hero. Sometimes too much of a good thing is bad. I think DT and ELP have melody and emotions in their songs depite all the technical elements. Wink

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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:28

I think those people who have a reasonable grasp of the lineage of Rock music from the late 60's, even if they don't care for ELP's music or loathe Prog, would acknowledge the trio as an indispensable part of the genre's rich legacy. Due to their massive global success and very high profile that probably peaked circa 1974, those who despise Prog have made ELP culpable for the sins of the entire 1st generation of proggers. (and more) Certainly they were flamboyant, hedonistic, ostentatiously wealthy and egotistical but are we to believe that the 'terminally hip' Stones, Oasis, Sabbath, Who, Bowie, Beatles, Queen, Chilli Peppers, Sex Pistols, Nirvana, Deep Purple, Zep etc eschewed entirely such decadent Rock'n'Roll traits ?
Is Keith Richards a non-smoking, tee-total, vegetarian, christian, tree hugging celibate who lives in a one bedroom flat on a council estate and gives all his royalties to a drug rehabilitation centre ?

There are possibly three areas where Prog is deemed to have declared war on the aesthetic ideals of those who profess to speak for 'the kids on the street'

1 - A degree of virtuosity is required to play Prog. It's an entry level qualification and you cannot bluff yer way through Karn Evil 9 armed with three barre chords, a broom handle bass and a 4/4 tub thumpin' beat y'all. Ergo the entire genre is considered inaccessible and 'divorced from the reality of the streets bro'.

2 - The subject matter of Prog is more often than not borderline sci-fi hippy cosmology, but more importantly it ain't remotely about disaffected yoof, teenage rebellion and slaughtering your parents with a six foot safety-pin.(then devouring their remains)

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:51

ExittheLemming wrote:

I think those people who have a reasonable grasp of the lineage of Rock music from the late 60's, even if they don't care for ELP's music or loathe Prog, would acknowledge the trio as an indispensable part of the genre's rich legacy.

in all fairness... I think many do. Here it gets muddy because people tend to think in terms of what they like rather than in terms of the genre itself. I think many do have a good grasp of the lineage and history of prog.. they just don't think in those terms just what they like.

Due to their massive global success and very high profile that probably peaked circa 1974, those who despise Prog have made ELP culpable for the sins of the entire 1st generation of proggers. (and more) Certainly they were flamboyant, hedonistic, ostentatiously wealthy and egotistical but are we to believe that the 'terminally hip' Stones, Oasis, Sabbath, Who, Status Quo, Beatles, Queen, Chilli Peppers, Sex Pistols, Nirvana, Deep Purple, Zep etc eschewed entirely such decadent Rock'n'Roll traits ?

let's face it... has there EVER been a group with a larger kick me sign attached to them than ELP. They aren't hip to like... they are hip to kick. LOL

Call it a perverse kind of love.
Is Keith Richards a non-smoking, tee-total, vegetarian, christian, tree hugging celibate who lives in a one bedroom flat on a council estate and gives all his royalties to a drug rehabilitation centre ?

There are possibly three areas where Prog is deemed to have declared war on the aesthetic ideals of those who profess to speak for 'the kids on the street'

1 - A degree of virtuosity is required to play Prog. It's an entry level qualification and you cannot bluff yer way through Karn Evil 9 armed with three barre chords, a broom handle bass and a 4/4 tub thumpin' beat y'all. Ergo the entire genre is considered inaccessible and 'divorced from the reality of the streets bro'.

McFerrin made an excellent point in regards to this in his write-up on Yes.

But even their stellar chops, a definite asset, often gained them intense criticism for creating a type of 'musical elitism' that prevented an average garage band from being able to emulate themselves after Yes (or other prog bands, for that matter). After all, not every bassist can successfully pull off Roundabout, not every guitarist can do the lightning solos in Awaken, not every drummer can pull off Close to the Edge or Siberian Khatru ... you get the idea. Not only had the band constructed music that was far beyond the tolerance of the average listener, but their playing talents had created an almost untouchable fraternity that only a very select few could ever hope to enter.

2 - The subject matter of Prog is more often than not borderline sci-fi hippy cosmology, but more importantly it ain't remotely about disaffected yoof, teenage rebellion and slaughtering your parents with a six foot safety-pin.(then devouring their remains)

Very true.. I love prog. But unlike some... Prog is only one of many genres I love. Let's just say I do not consider the subject (lyrical) side of prog to be one of it's strong suits. Indulgent, pretentious music... yeah.. I can dig that. Some guy who play yer geetar trying to lecture about some philosophical drivel.. no thanks. Thank God for Italian prog.. where you can just enjoy the music.. and the voice as an instrument.

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.

I've read of others saying something like that. Nothing to add to that however.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 09:56

I'll have to take the time to read through the thread later in the week, but I'll just pop in now and at least say HERE, HERE on the notion that ELP is a group that could really use more appreciation at PA.

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 12:46

Come on, what do you people like about ELP? What's your fav album? Your fav song? Your fav member? There's a lot of talk (once again) about what people despise of them, and what you don't not like (I hope I didn't make this too confusing). But we should rather talk about what we do like. Now, what about Pictures at an exhibition? It may not have been their first album, but these were their first concerts with which they became known. For me, Promenade, The Gnome, The Old Casle with Blues Variations, Promenade with the first part of The Hut of Babba Yaga stand out. I even like Nutrocker quiet a bit. Ofcourse it goes without saying that keyboards are wonderful, but I think drums, and even bass, deserve a mention. It's not so common for the drums to follow the melody the way Palmer does in many moments of this album (usually they just do rithm), and I really liked the way they sounded.

Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 13:51

Once again my friends, allow me my indulgence. There was no better band than ELP during their classic years. And yes I'm comparing them with Yes, KC, Tull, and any and all of that ilk.

I've said it before. Emerson was the Hendrix of the Hammond organ. No one, before or after, to this day, pulled more rock sounds out of that particular instrument. And no one was more visionary with regard to the Moog's possibilities. And yes it all became theatrics and spinning pianos and synths that sprung wings and carpets and gongs down the road. But early on, oh what a band.

Go, listen to Knife-Edge, listen to Tarkus, listen to Blues Variation, hell, listen to Jerusalem and that Ginastera track.

Really? They suck? I think it was Lake told the tale, the first 'song' they learned to play was Pictures At An Exhibition. Really? Name any other band that has those sorts of cojones. Really. Name one.

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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 14:24

micky wrote:

Clap

have posted this before (with permission LOL

) and this is a good place to post it again. One of the more insightful things I've seen written about ELP. From John McFerrin's excellent review site...

ALthough its an interestingly written peice he's actually way off the mark with the comment about Tarkus.This was composed by Emerson for exactly what he dismisses it as '' a medium for the grandiose ambitions of Emerson''. As is well known to ELP fans this caused considerable friction between Lake and Emerson as Lake considered it a solo peice and even threatened to leave the band. Of course he backed down and added the extra parts and the album became a big hit .

The biggest and most important ELP tracks were very obviously driven by Emerson and Lake was bright enough to let him have his head despite his own personal misgivings.This is because when it comes down to it there is no substitute for talent.Greg Lake although a fine musician and a sometimes good lyricist knows where he stands in the general scheme of things.

Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 16:26

I really think highly of ELP's early recordings, especially the debut album, which is their best. They were trend setters, and justifiably so. I am not a big fan of Brain Salad Surgery, or any that came after it. A group should be judged by their music, and that of early ELP is of a really high quality-i just cannot dismiss them as being pretentious or pompos because the music speaks of something beyond that. They were an inspiration to so many groups, especially my favourite band, Germany's Triumvirat.
Only one thing is worse than people dumping on ELP's music, people who dismiss Triumvirat!

Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 16:34

I absolutely love ELP. I find them to be one of the boldest and most entertaining of all of the prog bands of the 70's.

As far as their importance in rock history, no other band has done so much to make the synthesizer a lead instrument in rock , and none other has done more to fuse jazz and classical influences into rock.

Just as Windows is the most reviled software because it is the most ubiquitous, the same can be said for ELP. The loathing is exaggerated because they are so fun to dislike for many. But not all of their songs were over-the-top - Greg Lake's simple but beautiful acoustic songs serve as a nice contrast, and the ragtime numbers added a little comic relief as well. No other band can cover a piece like "Pictures at an Exhibition", yet still sound like they are having fun.

That sense of fun and showmanship is what, imho, is missing from modern prog.

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https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::..

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 14 2010 at 22:44

I was listening to Pictures at an Exhibition once again today, and I guess I must say it really is my favourite album from them. All other albums have their weak or annoying parts (as well as their really great ones), but by listening to this one again, the "weak" song (the second Promenade with The Sage) are in fact rather beautiful (not as much as Take a Pebble or In the Beginning, but still nice), and the "annoying" song (The Curse of Baba Yaga) is indeed rather fun, I rather liked all the instrumental parts, the one thing I still find somewhat annoying in this son is the vocals (this is mainly the sort of vocals that makes some ELP songs annoying for me). The Great Gates of Kiev is nice too, though not a highlight. The rest of the album is really fabulous.

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: March 15 2010 at 11:51

if someone can play with such a technique, compose that well and do this:

He must be out of the ordinary!

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 15 2010 at 12:18

Regardless of all their ups and downs and weaker songs, I absolutely love ELP. That's why I started the other thread of 'What's wrong with ELP?', it still does not fit into my head that this amazing band has got NOT EVEN ONE album with 5 stars at PA, I find it unbelievable.

When I see for example that Arena's Contagion, or Mike Oldfield's Amarok to name a couple have 5 stars... sure they are good albums and all my respect to Arena and Oldfield, but that they can be rated higher than ELP debut, Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad or Welcome Back ??? sorry I still do not get it

Some people say they would not rate ELPs albums with 5 stars because of Are You Ready Eddy, or of Lucky Man or of Benny the Bouncer... well I think that's very cruel, 'Mad Mad Moon' is not a masterpiece and 'I know what I like' neither in my opinion, but I still give 5 stars to Selling England by the Pound (as most others do, seen that it's got the 5 star average).

I do not put ELP on the altar as demi-gods or whatever, they made some really weak songs and after Welcome Back they became bland and at times even pathetic, and I'm the first one to say so. But their good music... my god it belongs to the 'creme-de-la-creme' without question!

All the prog superbands happened by the chance of great musicians coming together, and if this is true for nearly all of them, even more in the case of ELP. Keith was a genius during his inspired years (it's always difficult to understand how such genius can fade away, but it certainly did) and his ability and sensitivity with the piano was probably the best in prog, and it's with the piano where you see who's really the king. It's not that difficult to sound spectacular with a powerful synth, but playing classical piano can not be pretended, either you can or you can not.

Greg had one of the best voices around and was really cool with the bass.

Finally Carl has always had such a unique style, unortodox for the rock scene, taking the sticks in jazz-manner, playing with an unusually stiff attitude and mixing techniques of percussion with those of drumming. I have heard quite a few professional drummers critisizing him for his style and body language, but the fact is that he played some amazing parts, it fitted with Keith's way of playing and gave the band a very personal sound, different from either the rock-oriented drummers as well as from the jazz-oriented ones.

Just too bad they faded away so quickly.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 15 2010 at 16:13

Gerinski wrote:

Regardless of all their ups and downs and weaker songs, I absolutely love ELP. That's why I started the other thread of 'What's wrong with ELP?', it still does not fit into my head that this amazing band has got NOT EVEN ONE album with 5 stars at PA, I find it unbelievable.

Although one of my favourite bands I do think there is a massive Genesis bias on this website with many preferring the calm preciseness of Banks to the energy of Emerson. Ok fair enough as its a matter of taste but I think it does mean their albums are a bit overated.SEBTP has some dull stuff particularly More Fool Me,The BAttle Of Epping Forest and I know what I Like yet people complain about Benny The Bouncer which is a whole ..ermmm..2 minutes NOT the interminable ten minutes or whatever of Battle Of Epping Forest.Oh well.

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 15 2010 at 16:42

richardh wrote:

Oeps... Obviously I meant "More Fool Me" for SEBTP and not "Mad Mad Moon".

My only discrepancy is that I quite like The Battle Of Epping Forest

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 15 2010 at 16:43

richardh wrote:

You know, Richard, Micky and I were talking about exactly the same thing a couple of days ago - how for some people "Benny the Bouncer" or "Jeremy Bender" are bad, while the filler on SEBTP (which is a big favourite of mine anyway) is great. I suppose it's all a matter of taste, though it would be nice if people didn't try to present it as fact.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 16 2010 at 02:46

Gerinski wrote:

richardh wrote:

Oeps... Obviously I meant "More Fool Me" for SEBTP and not "Mad Mad Moon".

My only discrepancy is that I quite like The Battle Of Epping Forest

I enjoyed Battle Of Epping Forest for about 4-5 plays then the novelty just wore of.I know its meant to be fun but it just goes on too long(IMO). I have to admit I also rated SEBTP 5 stars although I will have to go back and read my own review to understand why

Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 16 2010 at 09:28

ELP was a great band, and one of the most important Progressive bands. John Collinge of Progression magazine includes them in the "Big Six" prog bands opf all times, and I agree with him, ELP's music is timelss and their sound was quite unique and influential.

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 16 2010 at 15:36

I might say that the term "Supergroup" was coined for ELP. The other supergroups just followed.

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: March 16 2010 at 16:51

Gerinski wrote:

I might say that the term "Supergroup" was coined for ELP. The other supergroups just followed.

Aren't that term wasn't for Blind Faith??

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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 17 2010 at 02:51

Alberto Muñoz wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

I might say that the term "Supergroup" was coined for ELP. The other supergroups just followed.

Aren't that term wasn't for Blind Faith??

I think you are right although Blind Faith didn't last long so ELP ended up 'owning' this description.I doubt too many now remember Blind Faith tbh.

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 17 2010 at 06:46

richardh wrote:

Alberto Muñoz wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

I might say that the term "Supergroup" was coined for ELP. The other supergroups just followed.

Aren't that term wasn't for Blind Faith??

I think you are right although Blind Faith didn't last long so ELP ended up 'owning' this description.I doubt too many now remember Blind Faith tbh.

Micky and I do, and we both love their only album (with the exception of that overlong drum solo at the end Wink

). Pity they didn't last long, though I'm not complaining about ELP taking their place!

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 18 2010 at 05:28

Considering that ELP produced the debut, Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery within the space of THREE YEARS dammit, they deserve mammoth kudos for such an enduring body of work that even today for me, is an unimpeachable creative peak that not even Yes, Crimson, Genesis, Tull, Floyd etc can match.

Genesis took 4 years and 5 albums to get to Selling England by the Pound (and one of of those is a complete diaper burrito plus I think large swathes of Trespass is borderline juvenilia)
Yes did 5 albums in 3 years but only hit their prog stride on The Yes Album.

No other prog giant had ELP's sustained level of innovative brilliance from 70 to 74. I do concede that their albums do contain some weaker material (Three Fates/Are You Ready Eddy ?/Jeremy Bender/Nutrocker) but why do some persist in the spurious fantasy that Genesis, Tull, Yes, Crimson and Floyd all consistently made albums where there were no weaker tracks to be seen anywhere ?

It's utter nonsense really. Pinch

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Posted By: Progfan1958
Date Posted: March 18 2010 at 06:11

Agreed ! ELP really were on their game through Brain Salad Surgery, and back in the day they were number one on my chart ! The long wait ( at the time ) until Works 1 was excruciating, so upon it's release I really embraced it as an exiting change with it's variety of style and new sound. Though in hindsight it's obvious that they were actually running out of ideas and inspiration. Still, I've followed them since then, and now and again see glimpses of former glory in whatever the band or it's component players have produced. Still, I wait for one grand, final conceptual prog masterpiece from them...perhaps it's my luxury to hang on to such an unlikely happening.

Steve.

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Progfan1958
"Peace to you all"
"La paix est avec vous"
"Pax vobiscum"
"Al salaam a'alaykum"
"Vrede zij met u allen"
"Shalom aleichem"

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: March 19 2010 at 06:13

I am one of ELP fans. I dont want explain about my opinion. If you want talk about ELP you MUST listen to " Tarkus" first. I think you MUST listen to ELP version and Jordan Rudess version of Tarkus and compare these then you can find : Why ELP is one of prog legends.

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 08:37

O666 wrote:

I am one of ELP fans. I dont want explain about my opinion. If you want talk about ELP you MUST listen to " Tarkus" first. I think you MUST listen to ELP version and Jordan Rudess version of Tarkus and compare these then you can find : Why ELP is one of prog legends.

Indeed Jordan Rudess has a lot to learn from Keith. One of those sad cases of a guy who has all the technique and more but fails to produce really good music. And I have to say, I like much of his work with DT and with Petrucci in Liquid Tension Experiment, but in general he is nowhere in terms of musical composition and sensitivity compared to King Keith.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 08:38

or hear LaBrie take a flamethrower to Tarkus (battlefield) as well..... LOL

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 09:08

micky wrote:

or hear LaBrie take a flamethrower to Tarkus (battlefield) as well..... LOL

Indeed, I think 'Jimmy the Cheese' is captured for posterity massacring this anti-war paean of Tarkus on the ELP tribute album Encores, Legends & Paradox. He sounds like Glen Hughes after a 'south of the waist only' Brazilian to my ears.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 09:25

ExittheLemming wrote:

micky wrote:

or hear LaBrie take a flamethrower to Tarkus (battlefield) as well..... LOL

amen to that..... I won't say it is lost in all the drivel about ELP's pretention.. armadillo tanks and jaw dropping skills but it is definitely underplayed.... is the fact that Greg Lake had one of best voices in all of rock. Capable of touching your heart with the occasional ELP 'ballad' or getting mean and nasty when he breaks out the 'angry' Lake vocals on gems like Knife's Edge or Time and a Place. For everything about the music... and the instrumentalists... the voice is one.. and often is the most up-front.. and Greg Lake was without a doubt one of the finest vocalists rock music ever saw. One that many outside of the fishbowl of PA's recognize.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 09:31

Yep, although I'm not a massive Lake fan I do admit that his vocal texture on both King Crimson and ELP almost defines the genre for those who have have maybe only heard the radio friendly stuff. It also seems clear to me that without Greg's erm...'populist hook' that softened the technical maelstrom of Keith and Carl, in all probability ELP might have folded after just 2 albums ?

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 10:08

ExittheLemming wrote:

Yep, although I'm not a massive Lake fan I do admit that his vocal texture on both King Crimson and ELP almost defines the genre for those who have have maybe only heard the radio friendly stuff. It also seems clear to me that without Greg's erm...'populist hook' that softened the technical maelstrom of Keith and Carl, in all probability ELP might have folded after just 2 albums ?

for all the bitchin about how 'short' ELP's creative lifespan was... you are right... in reality it is amazing it lasted as long as it did.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 10:33

I like Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Nice blend of vocals, guitars, keyboards and drums. A first-rate prog band by any standards. The first to do many of the things other prog bands are now doing. Pioneers. Showmen. Innovators. The hell with the critics. Angry

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 13:06

Alberto Muñoz wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

I might say that the term "Supergroup" was coined for ELP. The other supergroups just followed.

Aren't that term wasn't for Blind Faith??

Remark accepted

Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 13:24

Yes, brilliant musicianship in the studio, but what about the mind-blowing live performances? One of those pretty rare occasions where the showmanship blended beautifully with the showmanship. Heck, like someone put it quite nicely once, they'd go as far as a 'look mom, no hands!' type of performance. This attitude is hard to digest for many, but I love it!

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Property of Queen Productions...

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 23:48

^ Ofcourse if you saw Keith Emerson playing his keyboards during the concert without hands, it wouldn't be a good sign at all.

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: March 21 2010 at 09:53

Not even Hendrix!

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: March 21 2010 at 10:05

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: March 22 2010 at 11:43

Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:

You should post that here:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65753&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65753&PN=1

Come on, challenge me! Anybody?

WHY? I think ELP is a great band and i listen to it since 1984. Any prog fans find many favorite things in ELP but maybe find cheezy parts or elements too. Everyone have own opinion. I agree with you BUT i have problem with guitar in ELP!

Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: March 23 2010 at 14:40

Lizzy wrote:

Yes, brilliant musicianship in the studio, but what about the mind-blowing live performances? One of those pretty rare occasions where the showmanship blended beautifully with the showmanship. Heck, like someone put it quite nicely once, they'd go as far as a 'look mom, no hands!' type of performance. This attitude is hard to digest for many, but I love it!

Then maybe this will interest you:

http://www.shoutfactorystore.com/prod.aspx?pfid=5257165 - http://www.shoutfactorystore.com/prod.aspx?pfid=5257165

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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: March 23 2010 at 20:54

Garion81 wrote:

Then maybe this will interest you:

http://www.shoutfactorystore.com/prod.aspx?pfid=5257165 - http://www.shoutfactorystore.com/prod.aspx?pfid=5257165

OK...I need to get that!!!!!

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 24 2010 at 02:06

^ Although the ad clearly states the following: Featuring 4 Discs of Never-Before-Released Live Tracks!

Does anyone know for certain if some of these ain't just repackaged material from the Manticore Bootleg series ?

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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 24 2010 at 14:55

ExittheLemming wrote:

^ Although the ad clearly states the following: Featuring 4 Discs of Never-Before-Released Live Tracks!

Does anyone know for certain if some of these ain't just repackaged material from the Manticore Bootleg series ?

If you click on "Show track listing" the details of which gig each track comes from are there, so should be easy to check if they are the same.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 24 2010 at 15:27

Gerinski wrote:

If you click on "Show track listing" the details of which gig each track comes from are there, so should be easy to check if they are the same.

BEWARE!!!

Karn Evil 9 is exactly the same version as on the live triple release (Welcome Back My Friends...) and other tracks on the first disc include performances from the Lyceum concert and The Isle Of Wight festival 1970 (all available on the excellent Deluxe edition of Pictures At An Exhibition).

This is a blatant rip off I'm afraid.

Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: March 25 2010 at 03:46

I love plenty of different styles of music but ELP will always be my favourite band. I can't think of anyone else who had their combination of musicianship, aggression, dynamism and er, oh yeah "overblown pompous bombast". Thumbs Up

When it worked - ie mainly on the first five albums - it was brilliant. I'm sure their reputation would be a lot better if they'd done a King Crimson, split up around 1974 and not hung around to become punk whipping boys, but of course that's easy with hindsight.

I'm toying with the idea of seeing them at the High Voltage fest in London this summer but a bit worried there might be an air of old men trying to recreate former glories. A lot of ELP's music relied a lot on pure energy and attack so I think it's harder for them to recreate in their dotage than the more 'stately' material of Genesis. Still will probably end up going and hope for the best.

Anyway here are some examples of why they were so great: Cool

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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Posted By: Kojak
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 14:40

Ok, as a novice, I have purchased the first 5 albums of ELP, and I love them......This is where it starts getting messy. Where do I go from here...?? (bearing in mind that I'm also working on the back catalogue of Yes, King Crimson, Genesis & Peter Gabriel, etc, as well as all the Italian prog I'm learning about from this site. I really wish I had some friends into this stuff). So much music - so little time....

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 16:45

Kojak wrote:

Ok, as a novice, I have purchased the first 5 albums of ELP, and I love them......This is where it starts getting messy. Where do I go from here...?? (bearing in mind that I'm also working on the back catalogue of Yes, King Crimson, Genesis & Peter Gabriel, etc, as well as all the Italian prog I'm learning about from this site. I really wish I had some friends into this stuff). So much music - so little time....

Are you including Pictures at an Exhibition in the list?

If so, you already have the important stuff.... if you are now an ELP fan these are musts (in that order):
*Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends
*Keith Emerson Band feat. Marc Bonilla
*Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970

After that:
*Emerson Lake & Powell
*Emerson,Lake & Palmer - King Biscuit Flower Hour (AKA "Live")
*Black Moon
*Works Vol. 1
*Works Vol. 2
*3 - To the Power of Three
*In the Hot Seat (This one is OK, nothing special... but it is worth buying because of the superb studio recording of Pictures at an Exhibition!)

Here are some amazing box-sets to get for some unique stuff from classic
ELP (first 5 albums...):
*Return of the Manticore
*From the Beginning (it includes one of the best live performances ever!)
*A Time and A Place (just released.... apparently an amazing source of high quality live recordings...)

If you are really desperate for more (be prepared for big disappointment):
*Love Beach

Outside ELP you could also check:
*The Nice:
-Five Bridges Suite
-Vivacitas (It includes some great and different versions of ELP tunes)
-The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack
-The Nice
-Ars Longa Vita Brevis
-Elegy
*Atomic Rooster - Atomic Roooster (Palmer's pre-ELP band)

Enjoy it!!!!

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Posted By: Kojak
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 17:28

ProgressiveAttic - thank you for you time, mate, I really appreciate it.

(Yes, I was including 'Pictures').

Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 22:39

Kojak wrote:

ProgressiveAttic - thank you for you time, mate, I really appreciate it.(Yes, I was including 'Pictures').

No problem! + I assumed you already own King Crimson's In The Court of the Crimson King.... If you don't, forget everything else and go BUY IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!

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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 01:09

'Keith Emerson At The Movies' is also a great little 3cd box set. Includes the soundtracks to Dario Argento's horror film 'Inferno' and the Hollywood production 'Nighthawks' (starring Sylvester Stallone). Emerson was extremely creative in this period and was helped by Godfrey Salmon (the guy who conducted the orchestra on the Works tour). Well worth checking out.

Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 01:15

ExittheLemming wrote:

1 - A degree of virtuosity is required to play Prog.

I guess you don't consider bands like Pink Floyd and Hawkwind prog because I'd say that isn't true at all.

Space rock is one genre of prog that doesn't put much emphasis on technical abillity, neither does krautrock.

2 - The subject matter of Prog is more often than not borderline sci-fi hippy cosmology, but more importantly it ain't remotely about disaffected yoof, teenage rebellion and slaughtering your parents with a six foot safety-pin.(then devouring their remains)

Again there are bands like Pink Floyd, VDGG, PT and so on who deal with those kinda themes all the time.

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.

Again you act like the only kind of prog is symphonic. I think a truly progressive band could be influenced by pretty much anything. There's blues in Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and GG, there's R&B in pretty much all the proto prog bands as well as Yes and there's primal rock n roll in Hawkwind.

As prog evolves it will continue to merge with newer genres of music. There are already prog bands who are influenced by everything from punk to reggae to electronica to alternative rock. How can prog evolve if it has to forever remain limited to certain influences? What would be so progressive about it then?

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http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Kojak
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 02:22

ProgressiveAttic wrote:

Kojak wrote:

ProgressiveAttic - thank you for you time, mate, I really appreciate it.(Yes, I was including 'Pictures').

No problem! + I assumed you already own King Crimson's In The Court of the Crimson King.... If you don't, forget everything else and go BUY IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Of course I have 'In The Court...' I could never claim to like this kind of music and not own that one, I'd deserve to be shot if I did... LOL

I have that, plus 'In The Wake', 'Larks Tongue', and 'Red' - got a long way to go yet with KC, I know. Cheers ProgressiveAttic, I'm gonna copy and save your list.

@Richardh - cheers again, 'Emerson at The Movies' goes on my (ever expanding) list.

All the best, guys...

Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 23:04

^ There is a thread "Gateway to King Crimson" on Prog Recommendations, perhaps you could get an idea of how to proceed with King Crimson with that thread. There was a good post explaining which albums or eras of King Crimson to pursue depending on what songs you liked better from the debut. If you post there we could help you with that discography too.

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: June 04 2010 at 06:23

Intresting. From ELP to KC!! ( From Genesis to revolution).

Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: March 05 2013 at 13:47

An interesting interview with Greg Lake in Rolling Stone that I thought should be shared. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/prog-rock-pioneer-greg-lake-punk-is-not-a-form-of-music-its-a-fashion-statement-20130305?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rollingstone%2FCNN%2FNews+%28RollingStone.com+--+CNN%29" rel="nofollow - http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/prog-rock-pioneer-greg-lake-punk-is-not-a-form-of-music-its-a-fashion-statement-20130305?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rollingstone%2FCNN%2FNews+%28RollingStone.com+--+CNN%29

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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: March 05 2013 at 17:15

Thanks for that interview! Nice!

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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 05 2013 at 17:20

rushfan4 wrote:

An interesting interview with Greg Lake in Rolling Stone that I thought should be shared. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/prog-rock-pioneer-greg-lake-punk-is-not-a-form-of-music-its-a-fashion-statement-20130305?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rollingstone%2FCNN%2FNews+%28RollingStone.com+--+CNN%29" rel="nofollow - http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/prog-rock-pioneer-greg-lake-punk-is-not-a-form-of-music-its-a-fashion-statement-20130305?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rollingstone%2FCNN%2FNews+%28RollingStone.com+--+CNN%29

thanks!

a few snippets on the actual creative end of ELP and then why they didn't tour after High Voltage:

By the late Seventies critics really turned on you guys. You became the embodiment of rock excess. Did that perception bother you?
I think there is truth in the fact that the group was pretentious. You don't make an omelet without cracking eggs. We wanted to try and move things forward and do something new and break boundaries. It was important for us to be original. Certainly the early albums . . . I'm talking now especially about Tarkus, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. Those records were really great and innovative. There were members of the press that didn't love us, but the public loved us.

I'm very proud of ELP, but it wasn't the journalists that brought down ELP. I think it was ELP themselves. It started to fragment when they made Works Volume 1. It was a good album, but it wasn't ELP. It was Keith Emerson, Greg Lake and Carl Palmer with an orchestra. Well, with three separate orchestras. [Laughs]

The album went platinum, and I can say with all the humility that I can muster that there were some great tracks on the record. But it wasn't a record that reflected the chemistry of ELP. It reflected the individuals apart from each other. There are some tracks, like "Pirates," for example, which stand up on their own. Leonard Bernstein liked that song a lot. But the truth of it was that Works Volume 1 was the beginning of the end. After that, ELP never made another really innovative record.

ELP played a single concert a couple of summers ago. Why just the one? Why not tour?
I don't know. It frustrates me. Frankly, it takes a lot of energy and determination to reach a playing standard that people expect from a band like ELP. The expectation is very high. People are coming to see the legendary ELP. What do they expect? I'll tell you. They expect to see the band they heard on record or saw on tour in 1974. And now we're 40 years older, and you've got to do it the same. That takes some doing.
I really wanted to go out and play a world tour. We only got the one show, and after five or six more the band would have been formidable.
Who pulled the plug on doing more?
Keith and Carl didn't want to do it. I don't know why. It's very strange, but there's something about ELP that doesn't work. It used to work, but it doesn't work now. That might change. People do change, of course. I go back to my philosophy of the duty you have to perform for people who have invested not only their money, but a lot of their feelings into your music. I just feel that you should try and give them satisfaction

Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: March 05 2013 at 18:51

When they were at their peak, none were better. When they "lost" that certain chemistry, they were awful. Even so, their primo stuff is the best of the genre. IMO, of course.

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"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."

Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: March 06 2013 at 11:52

ExittheLemming wrote:

3 - Prog does has a tiny sliver of Jazz and R'n'B in its DNA but is for all intents and purposes unequivocally 'white' music that does not source its development from funk, soul, blues, motown, dance music or basic primal rock and roll. Without wishing to embroil us in undue controversy on an ELP appreciation thread, there is more than ample evidence to suggest that (exclusively white) music journalists in both the UK and USA have always had a covert racist agenda when it comes to bestowing their laurel wreaths on the heads of those they will subsequently decapitate before the month's out.

But even if he did incorporate now-white elements into their music, critics would just say they were "appropriating them"; hence why acts like Led Zeppelin were trashed while others like Captain Beefheart got off the hook.

Also, I'm skeptical about Lake's "Punk is not a form of music" statement. The Stooges, The New York Dolls, The Ramones, The Clash and even The Sex Pistols had some decent stuff. If Lake, on the other hand, was talking about the movement that spawned punk rock, then he hit the nail right on the head. There's more pretension in a Lester Bangs article than in the title track to Tarkus.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!

Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: March 06 2013 at 17:31

An ELP fan should like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NCVt1mMk9o" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NCVt1mMk9o

Posted By: Harold13
Date Posted: March 06 2013 at 23:00

HELL YES!!! Handshake

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 07 2013 at 02:54

Funny how people miss the point about ELP as a band. Sorry but that is a desperately dull impression of ELP. At least Triumvirate were fun.

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 07:34

A new 40th anniversary edition of Brain Salad Surgery was released yerterday - 2 CDs and a DVD.

Disk 1: The original album remastered

Disk 2: The alternate Brain Salad Surgery: other mixes and takes from teh album, plus the Brain Salad Surgery and Apple Blossoms B-sides

DVD: 2014 Super Stereo Brain Salad Surgery remixed by Jakko Jakszyk - plus flac files of both mixes.

I haven't gotten all the way through it yet.

-------------
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 20:27

Evolver wrote:

A new 40th anniversary edition of Brain Salad Surgery was released yerterday - 2 CDs and a DVD.

Disk 1: The original album remastered

Disk 2: The alternate Brain Salad Surgery: other mixes and takes from teh album, plus the Brain Salad Surgery and Apple Blossoms B-sides

DVD: 2014 Super Stereo Brain Salad Surgery remixed by Jakko Jakszyk - plus flac files of both mixes.

I haven't gotten all the way through it yet.

Cool! How much was it? You got it from Amazon, I presume?

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 20:39

It was only $16.99 US at Newbury Comics.
Great chain in Massachusetts. I've known the owner since my record store days. Great guy.
Www.newbury.com if you want to order it from them.

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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 23:16

Evolver wrote:

It was only $16.99 US at Newbury Comics.
Great chain in Massachusetts. I've known the owner since my record store days. Great guy.
Www.newbury.com if you want to order it from them.

Ah, yes, familiar with the name. Have never had the pleasure of visiting their store. I hear it's really cool. Good price on that, too!

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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: July 04 2014 at 16:59

I've listen to the first two CDs so far.

Disk 1 I believe is from a previous remix, but I can't be certain.

Disk 2 is misleading. Most of the tracks say "alternate version" whisch should differentiate them from the ones that say "different mix". But they don't sound like alternate takes. Just slightly different mixes - mostly the piano tracks come through more that the original.

There is a "different version" of Karn Evil 9 - 3rd Impression, that sounds like an early take on the piece, when Greg and Carl hadn't yet worked out their parts. That's the only track that rings true to the liner notes statement that disk 2 shows how the pieces evolved.

The Brain Salad Surgery is the original version, not the updated one on Works 2. This has been released on previous editions, but the mix here, especially that stomach dropping bass synth swoop, is the best I've heard it.

I'll be listening to the new mix soon.

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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 05 2014 at 12:42

Oh yes - the irony!

Emerson's organ playing is so deeply rooted in Jimmy Smith's blues/jazz style it's incredible. Smith and Emerson are two of my all-time favorite musicians, and they both wore their influences on their sleeves very proudly.

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 06 2014 at 14:10

RockHound wrote:

Oh yes - the irony!

Emerson's organ playing is so deeply rooted in Jimmy Smith's blues/jazz style it's incredible. Smith and Emerson are two of my all-time favorite musicians, and they both wore their influences on their sleeves very proudly.

Keith's recalling of his presence at a Jimmy Smith set in a small downtown club (later in the night after ELP had played a large venue) is legendary. Apparently Keith really "stuck out" and chose to not remain for the entire set, but the guy was one of Keith's heroes and he wanted to make the effort to see him.

Smith's live CD Root Down is absolutely essential if you love that organ and if you love good music, period.

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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 06 2014 at 20:35

I appreciate ELP.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 01:03

verslibre wrote:

RockHound wrote:

Oh yes - the irony!

Go that on order Thumbs Up

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 01:06

Evolver wrote:

A new 40th anniversary edition of Brain Salad Surgery was released yerterday - 2 CDs and a DVD.

Disk 1: The original album remastered

Disk 2: The alternate Brain Salad Surgery: other mixes and takes from teh album, plus the Brain Salad Surgery and Apple Blossoms B-sides

DVD: 2014 Super Stereo Brain Salad Surgery remixed by Jakko Jakszyk - plus flac files of both mixes.

I haven't gotten all the way through it yet.

I understand that the DVD does contain audio stuff only, no video, right?

For what you say I'm afraid that even as an ELP fan I'm not gonna spend my euros on this one...

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 01:15

Gerinski wrote:

Evolver wrote:

A new 40th anniversary edition of Brain Salad Surgery was released yerterday - 2 CDs and a DVD.

Disk 1: The original album remastered

Disk 2: The alternate Brain Salad Surgery: other mixes and takes from teh album, plus the Brain Salad Surgery and Apple Blossoms B-sides

DVD: 2014 Super Stereo Brain Salad Surgery remixed by Jakko Jakszyk - plus flac files of both mixes.

I haven't gotten all the way through it yet.

I understand that the DVD does contain audio stuff only, no video, right?

For what you say I'm afraid that even as an ELP fan I'm not gonna spend my euros on this one...

I don't blame you although to be fair the 3 disc package is quite nice and the alternative instrumental versions of KE9 3rd Impression are a must have for fans.

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 02:02

richardh wrote:

verslibre wrote:

Smith's live CD Root Down is absolutely essential if you love that organ and if you love good music, period.

Go that on order Thumbs Up

Let us know when you spin it. It's a monster!

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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 02:41

A bit off-topic here (but relative) - just listening through to Ayreon's 'The Theory If Everything' , which features a Modular Moog solo from Keith. Sounds familiar .......(Blues Variation from the Pictures album). Emmo's still 'got it' ......

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 14:09

^ Darn it something else I must have

please people stop recommending stuff Wink

Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 14:58

Good CD...

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......

Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: July 07 2014 at 14:59

Hackett is on there as well....

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......

Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 00:46

As I said on a previous ELP thread, when they were on form, none were better. When they were off, none were worse. I really like a good part of their output but some of it- mostly the latter stuff- just doesn't get it for me. Even so, I still think highly of them and their huge contribution to the genre overall.

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"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."

Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 06:07

How dare you put a warning sign on the thread title. It's ELP, f**ksake. One of the absolute pioneer bands of progressive rock. They have some of the greatest music in the genre. They were bad about album flow though. It's like they just wrote music and didn't really consider the album as a whole nearly as much as pretty much all other prog bands.

Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 06:18

ProgressiveAttic wrote:

I am tired of all those threads dedicated to discuss why do people hate, dislike, etc... this classic band and first prog super-group.

many people don't understand their music , they prefer old boring bluesy/jazzy prog cos it's easy to get into, while ELP were futuristic and not of this planet.

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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 15:02

King Crimson776 wrote:

How dare you put a warning sign on the thread title. It's ELP, f**ksake. One of the absolute pioneer bands of progressive rock. They have some of the greatest music in the genre. They were bad about album flow though. It's like they just wrote music and didn't really consider the album as a whole nearly as much as pretty much all other prog bands.

To be fair if you try to post 'dead straight' about ELP without any 'warnings' ( which in this case I took as just irony) then you may be accused of lacking a sense of humour , not understanding what good music is about or just plain stupid. Appreciating ELP is not easy when you want to be taken seriously Wink

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 28 2014 at 15:27

I do agree that ELP's approach seemed to be more about writing music and not thinking about an album as a whole piece of work. This makes several of their albums patchy and lacking in the sense of flow and dynamics you get in many albums from other bands.

Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 03:18

Gerinski wrote:

Just goes to show that one man's meat is another man's poison! What I like about ELP was how they moved between totally different styles and moods and (usually) pulled it off brilliantly. Most people on here prefer Genesis to ELP but I find it harder to sit through a Genesis album as they sound a bit one-paced and samey. Keith Emerson said after listening back to one of their pieces (think it was The Endless Enigma) that it sounds like it was written by the most schizophrenic person in the world. Perhaps you have to be a bit bi-polar to like ELP. Wink

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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 08:12

Cactus Choir wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

Hey to be honest just a few ELP pieces were enough for me to feel a much more pleasurable listening than almost any music of Genesis, who I know quite a lot and occasionally still listen to them - just to be clear I'm not saying that Genesis are not good. I don't know if it is a matter of personal tastes, but quite sadly only this year I happened to know the awesome ELPs music, and it was enough to be sure they are one of the most genuine bands I've ever heard, btw if I take for example this fantastic piece you pointed out (The Endless Enigma) it shows such a unique symphonic orchestral appeal, as well as Karn Evil 9, not found in almost any other band. But happily I'm not bi-polar yet (at least what I think hahah), and the next one I am looking forward to achieve is Keith Emerson's album Changing States as Richardh recommended.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 14:45

Cactus Choir wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

I think you have hit upon something. Toccata has always been a joy to me which I suspect may have been the track Emerson was referring to?!

Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 29 2014 at 20:57

Rick Robson wrote:

Hey to be honest just a few ELP pieces were enough for me to feel a much more pleasurable listening than almost any music of Genesis, who I know quite a lot and occasionally still listen to them - just to be clear I'm not saying that Genesis are not good. I don't know if it is a matter of personal tastes, but quite sadly only this year I happened to know the awesome ELPs music, and it was enough to be sure they are one of the most genuine bands I've ever heard, btw if I take for example this fantastic piece you pointed out (The Endless Enigma) it shows such a unique symphonic orchestral appeal, as well as Karn Evil 9, not found in almost any other band. But happily I'm not bi-polar yet (at least what I think hahah), and the next one I am looking forward to achieve is Keith Emerson's album Changing States as Richardh recommended.

When I first encountered "Karn Evil 9" (and subsequently proceeded to listen to it over and over and over and over again), I sincerely believed I had found the pinnacle of prog. On reflection, I have since heard many other flawed gems (dusted down

), but I still consider that composition to be one of the genre's peaks, and ELP one of its brightest lights.

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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: July 30 2014 at 03:04

richardh wrote:

I think you have hit upon something. Toccata has always been a joy to me which I suspect may have been the track Emerson was referring to?!

It was definitely something off Trilogy he was talking about, though it might have been the title track instead of Endless Enigma. I do think those sudden shifts in mood might be one of the things that puts people off ELP. Well, that and the lack of guitars. And the pomposity. Plus the rampant egotism and bombast. Their loss! Tongue

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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 30 2014 at 15:26

Cactus Choir wrote:

richardh wrote:

I think you have hit upon something. Toccata has always been a joy to me which I suspect may have been the track Emerson was referring to?!

But at least they could pull of the open neck shirt and tight trousers look while standing on a sun drenched beach

..oh wait a minute Embarrassed

Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: July 31 2014 at 03:07

^
Keith always claims to be ashamed of that cover, but he doesn't look very ashamed.

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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: July 31 2014 at 20:09

^a "carioca" hahah , missed only the 4X4 with the surf board on the top of it.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB

Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: September 28 2014 at 13:34

Cactus Choir wrote:

I love plenty of different styles of music but ELP will always be my favourite band. I can't think of anyone else who had their combination of musicianship, aggression, dynamism and er, oh yeah "overblown pompous bombast". Thumbs Up

Wow!

And for me they've NEVER become punk whipping boys!!

EDIT: The former YouTube video of The Barbarian doesn't exist anymore, I replaced it by another one.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB

Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: September 29 2014 at 07:41

Tarkus blows me away. Just blows my f**king mind.

Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 29 2014 at 10:43

I have always liked ELP but then I bought the first one when it came out and I already was a fan of the Nice and KC...so it appealed to me. The next 3 or 4 were also good and I only lost interest around the time Works 1 came out.

It seems that the biggest negative for some are those later albums and it might affect how they feel about the earlier ones also.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin