Do prog-fans like jazz?
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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64444
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 02:13
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Topic: Do prog-fans like jazz?
Posted By: undercover_man
Subject: Do prog-fans like jazz?
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 07:01
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As you've noticed, I would like to find progfans' relationship to jazz.
I have to say, I'm listening to prog more than 20 years, but as for jazz, I'm pure newbie. Even in prog, categories which we could call "jazzy prog" remain for me the least explored areas of prog.
I've always felt I'm on a eclectic and classical side of prog, VdGG, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Anglagard are my most loving bands. But on the other hand, I love some albums by e.g. Soft Machine and National Health, I love very much the instruments often associated with jazz like saxophones, clarinets, trumpets, I love jazzy druming, I love instrumental prog.
So I started to buy some albums from ECM label to explore more jazz, but I can't say I'm too satisfied. I've never met beauty and emotional depth of my most loving prog bands. Sometimes sounding too happy, sometimes too sentimental, sometimes I missed the dynamics or power of prog.
Maybe I need an advice where to find jazz equally emotionally moving as e.g. VdGG.
Many thanks for your comments and recommendations.
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Replies:
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 07:43
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I like Jazz more in theory than in practice. My father is an immense jazz nut, so I've heard (and have access to) a wide variety of jazz artists. Something about it just hasn't resonated with me personally though, and in the end it feels like background music to me - pleasant and exciting, but not particularly memorable and not the kind of thing I'll put on myself often. I'm still holding out hope that one day I'll "get it".
I voted for option #4. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: petrica
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 07:48
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Jazz has so many sub genres and is a territory worth exploring. I'm also new to the world of jazz and so far I would recommend one album: The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady from Charles Mingus. Absolute masterpiece. You may also want to check some of the albums from Miles Davis like Kind of Blue or In a silent way. I agree with you about VdGG. I would say jazz is different but I know a few tunes which are easily switching me to that state you are talking about(e.g. Miles Davis - Solea from Sketches Of Spain). |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 07:59
Sounds as if your taste is similar to mine! A lot of ECM albums sound rather wishy-washy, but try Eberhard Weber's YELLOW FIELDS or SILENT FEET, or Terje Rypdal's early albums. Most probably, you will also love Gary Burton's ECM albums and Keith Jarrett's MY SONG. You may also enjoy Pat Metheny, Weather Report, Brand X and Bill Bruford's Earthworks. All these acts are somewhere between Canterbury scene, symphonic prog and "orthodox jazz". Happy listening! P.S. In many European countries you can use Spotify to access virtually the entire ECM catalogue for free. And it's 100% legal. |
undercover_man wrote:Posted By: bsms810
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:16
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I like the incredible musicianship displayed by a lot of jazz artists, but im not a huge jazz fan. I prefer crescendos and climaxes to music, which i dont find as much of in jazz ------------- 'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?' 'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:21
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I have always liked jazz, especially chamber jazz á la Oregon. and I must say I like most of the ECM recordings. that does not mean I don't like other jazz. I even like some big band jazz. the WDR big band is fantastic, and the full list of artists that have played with it as guest artists reads like a who-is-who in jazz. I also liked the United Jazz and Rock Ensemble. and many jazz artists cross borders to world music, like for example the French trio Hadouk. just as world musicians like Rabih Abou-Khalil experiment with jazz and play with top European jazz musicians like Gianluigi Trovese or Michel Godard -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:28
| Fourth option for me, though I would change the 'prog' into 'rock'. Jazz, for me, is much like classical music - I like listening to it in relatively small doses. On the other hand, I do love jazzy prog, from the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Canterbury bands like Hatfield and the North or National Health to the more modern examples of contamination between jazz/fusion and metal. |
Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:30
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Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:43
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My vote was for the second choice. when I first discovered Prog in the early 80's at age of 13 prog was my world, but by the end of the 80's and early 90's there wasn't any prog that helped me keep that 80's spirit alive so then i was introduced to Jazz and I embraced and adored it as much as prog. Bands like The pat Metheny Group, Mike Stern, Tribal Tech,ECM records musicians like: Jan Garbarek, Ralph Towner, John Abercrombie to mention and few then I got into traditional jazz with the master Coltrane, Parker, Miles, Oscar Peterson etc. SO Yes A prog fan can love Jazz. However , returned to my roots when I heard Porcupine tree, Dream Theater, Anekdoten, Aglangard, Ozric Tentacles, Tool.------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/ http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/ |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 08:51
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I'm not really big on jazz, though I do like some jazzy prog. I have a tough time sitting through a lot of traditional jazz especially. -Jeff ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 09:04
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Second option for me. Excluding swing jazz, it is as enjoyable to me these days as prog is.
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Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 09:41
I'd say my love for jazz and prog music is close to equal. I probably got into prog music at first by listening to jazz fusion artists like Weather Report and Return To Forever, then from there I branched out to more traditional jazz and prog music. Since I'm Canadian, I was familiar with Rush before any of that. 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:57
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I like it about as much as prog. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:07
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I love jazz and prog about equally.
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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:07
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Third option for me. It's close to the same level as prog for me, but prog has a slight edge. Jazz and Classical are both right behind it, really.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:14
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No, not at all. Prog fans do not like jazz, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you do. Only those who like jazz rock like it, but they're not real prog fans anyway. Jazzers don't use mellotrons, and they suck at irregular time signatures. Also, their drumers use brushes. ------------- |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:38
You should really try Eberhard Weber's SILENT FEET, or anything by the Pat Metheny Group: climaxes aplenty! However, the greatest climax in jazz must be Duke Ellington's immortal "Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue" (from AT NEWPORT). Unless you want to include John Coltrane, who is ALL crescendos. But give me DUKE any time! |
Posted By: b4usleep
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:41
Maybe you should try "Mike Mainieri - An American Diary" for a start ------------- Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:41
| I love jazz, but not as much as I love prog. Jazz has a lot of great technical musicians and soothing/stylish atmospheres, but it doesn't have a confronting lyrical/composition side. The songs are less memorable then prog epics. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:44
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I'm fairly new to jazz, only been listening to some classics like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Brubeck, Bill Evans and Jarrett.
But got to say I love when a Prog band adds to their music some jazzy touches, hence my love for Waterloo Lily, Rain Dances, The Tangent, and many others.
Option 3, but I think it's just a matter of time till I like jazz equally or even more than prog.
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:48
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I love jazz more than prog, but by a narrow margin. You can't really say you like prog more because a lot of prog is still very much pure jazz.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:51
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Hey, Alex. I love Jazz, although I don't know much about it when compared to my knowledge of other genres. Joe Pass is a bit of an inspiration to me, though. Would you consider guitar to be a 'proper' Jazz instrument?
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:55
Of course the 'guitar' can be considered a proper jazz instrument with great guitarists like Wes Montgomery and George Benson. including Joe Pass and Jim Hall.
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:56
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I voted the first option, but I really don't know. Do I love Residents more than Herbie Hancock and are any of them, one of them of both of them prog? I have no idea. But I do love all things considered jazz more than progressive rock. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:56
Any instrument is a "proper" jazz instrument to me  In my honest opinion, even in jazz tradition I feel it's a proper jazz instrument. I mean, look at Wes Montgomery and Pat Metheny. Interesting instruments also make the music more interesting for me, so use whatever I say  ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:02
Remember, the electric guitar was invented by a jazz musician  Regarding the acoustic guitar, if I'm not wrong, then jazz guitar was very "big" before the war, almost as big as classical guitar. Think of Django vs. Andres Segovia. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:08
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Haha, glad to see the guitar love, here. I guess due to my lack of jazz knowledge, I don't really see many guitarists in the music. Bass players, always, but guitar players? No so much, it seems.
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:13
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These are the jazz guitarists I can mention without thinking too much: Django (of course) Les Paul (of course) Barney Kessel Herb Ellis John McLaughlin John Abercrombrie Terje Rypdal Eivind Aarset |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:24
Same. I'd exclude smooth jazz as well though . |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:25
What, not a fan of Kenny G? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:33
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don't like jazz... it's too boring to me... I "get it" but can appriciate it... but I like some jazzy prog because it has what jazz do not have... energy and power... and that's what prog rock throw into the mix... so... I even prefer old rock'n'roll and blues than jazz... ------------- |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:34
Cool list. Thanks, I'll check them out! |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:35
What Jazz have you been listening to? I've heard plenty of energetic Jazz tunes, and I don't know sh*t about it, for the most part.
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:46
| Equally. There is good and bad in both. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:50
| I'm sloooowly starting to expand my knowledge and appreciation of jazz by exploring the likes of Miles Davis and John Coltrane but I doubt it'll ever provide me with the kind of instant gratification my favourite prog bands tend to. |
Posted By: Gentlegiantprog
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:54
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I don't like Jazz, its not that I DISLIKE Jazz but rather that I'm unexposed to it and have to further desire to become exposed.
------------- Let the maps of war be drawn ! 
http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:56
You should try classic Duke Ellington from the 1940s, the so-called Blanton-Webster band. It's incredibly lyrical and all the compositions are unforgettable. But it's "big band" music, which will take many people some getting used to. I'm speaking from experience. I myself was prejudiced against "big band" (and yes: SWING) to start with (it seemed so uncool) but just a few spins will show you how incredibly sophisticated it is. And if you want to go back even earlier in history: 1920s Louis Armstrong is as good at the blues as anything Eric Clapton or Jimmy Page ever recorded. Honestly! |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:57
I knew someone would rain on me... well... I never said it was bad... when I said that it needs to be more energetic I meant metal or hard rock... I need it to keep it interesting... of course, in the accurate proportion but you get me...???
names of jazz bands...??? mmm... I have heard Dianna Krall, there's another girl with the same  music... and then some Jacko Pastorius and some other bands that I don't know their names but sounds the same... Chick Corea as well... Sorry... I don't put attention to the music that doesn't make the click with me... ------------- |
Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 13:03
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I don't particularly like jazz, but I enjoy the occasional jazzy prog. On the whole, I tend to be more on the composition/thematic development side of music rather than the improvisational.
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 13:04
Now that I see your selection, which consists of modern musicians, it's surprising to see that four of six were/are involved in fusion/jazz-rock projects. So it seems that the spread of the electric guitar in the jazz circles does have a lot to do with the rise of progressive music? |
Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 13:25
Six of one and half a dozen of the other.....................depends on the mood. Know one thing though and that is I am still learning about both and music in general. ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 13:29
| Love Jazz, but love prog slightly more. Probably because i'm more familiar with it |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 13:37
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I like jazz more than prog, especially avant-garde jazz. Much avant-rock is becoming hollow to me these days, and I'm not sure why. It seems my hatred of conventional rock music is seeping outwards. I would add James Ulmer and Sonny Sharrock as essential jazz guitarists. They're also much better than freaking smooth jazz George Benson. ;-)
That's your problem. Impulse!, Blue Note, and Prestige are where it's at. Not that there's anything wrong with ECM, there's a lot of good music there (even though I only own 1 ECM album), but the essential greats began with those three. Of course, Miles Davis on Columbia is an exception, but I think you understand. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Morningrise
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:36
| I do listen sometimes to Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brand X or Pat Metheny Group...but prefer prog by a long long shot |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:37
Jazz is the debbil's music. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:46
Have you listened to Benson's early records?
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Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:52
| I love jazzy Prog, but I have hardly listened to any jazz. I probably should, but I just haven't found the time. I doubt that I would ever like it as much as Prog, but I really can't say yet. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:04
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Meh. I can live without jazz. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: bsms810
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:17
 ------------- 'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?' 'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:29
| I think I like them equally... I listen to them for different purposes so it's hard to say. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 19:16
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: TamanduaRick
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 19:44
| Well, "jazz" and "prog" don't really mean one thing. They cover so many bases. I love jazz and play it for a living (as well as "prog"), but I probably reach for prog CD's more than jazz CD's lately. I just love music! |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 19:54
I would rather gorp than zzaj any day. 
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Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 19:54
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I love jazz, but I LOVE prog.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 20:36
I thought so.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 21:05
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raised on jazz, my mom played it daily |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 21:06
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BTW I voted # 2 |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 21:16
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Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 21:20
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I can really enjoy some well played jazz and love when the two genres are fused. Has anyone heard the Jazznesis cd? I really enjoy these musicians and their jazzy interpretation of Genesis music. You can listen to some really great renditions here: http://www.myspace.com/jaumevilaseca |
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 21:56
That's pretty sweet...
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Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 22:22
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I think the Pat Metheny Group is a prog fan's jazz band. Especially to songs like As It Is, Are You Going With Me?, The Way Up, and Minuano (six eight) I guess the same could be said about the Mahavishnu Orchestra, or Return to Forever, in a different respect, but I think that the PMG is influenced more by 'standard' jazz, where those are more rock influenced. ------------- 
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Posted By: Eapo_q42
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 23:13
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I like the idea of Jazz very much. The notion that the music has no boundaries, very appealing.... However, the sound of music just isn't what my taste demands. It's difficult to explain, but even though I like my music to be adventurous, I do enjoy it most within the framework of a rock sound. So with that in mind, I can say I like some Jazz, but prefer prog by a long distance. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 23:22
Yes, definitely, that's why Pat Metheny is barely named in the forum and is by no means as popular as RtF and Mahavishnu
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 01:26
| I won't vote because I have heard very little jazz compared to prog but loved whatever I heard and maybe one day I will in fact have to say that I like it more than prog. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 01:47
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jampa, I missed your post until Rocktopus quoted it below me, but what the hell are you doing listening to Diana Krall? Did you go to the Grammys' website and randomly pick the first jazz artist you found? At least you didn't get Kenny G...
More importantly, Metheny is influenced by much more (this is going to sound insulting but I'm going to say it anyway) "sensitive" jazz. You could be forgiven for thinking you were watching the Weather Channel when listening to some of Pat Metheny, while MO and RTF kept more of the sharp edges of bebop even when in their more relaxed songs, and that edge is as important to the rock fan as rocking it up. However, I have to give him a great deal of credit for having the balls to release Song X, The Sign of 4, and Zero Tolerance for Silence. Not many successful musicians are willing to piss off their primary audience like that for the love of the music. And he's still stretching himself with things like the new orchestrion tour. He could have recorded another regular Pat Metheny album, and people still would have bought it, but he chose to go through all the effort of learning how to play a damn orchestrion.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 01:48
I don't mind, just stop pretending that you "get it". You're obviously clueless. Diana Krall? No wonder it hasn't clicked. -I don't like rock. I found a album in the rocksection by someone called Bryan or Ryan Adams. It was boring, and lacked energy and power. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 02:20
Sonny Sharrock is my favorite guitarist of all. I've never been a completist, but I need to own every little tone ever recorded by him 66-75. Guess I better check out James Ulmer.
I partly agree. Its easiest to simply wait with ECM and 70's jazz until you have plenty of 60's greats. But from the beginning to ca. 73-74, the ECM-catalogue contains plenty of essential albums. (I reccomend the labels Embryo, MPS and BYG Actuel-releases of the same period). Wait even longer with investigating the 80's, 90's jazz. It generally gets smother and sicker year by year. I'll admit I haven't really checked it out properly myself yet. Partly because I've enjoyed very little of what I have heard. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 02:30
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I love jazz rock, but I don't really get alot of enjoyment out of straight jazz. I love the way they play but not the tunes they write. But I love everything about jazz rock ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: stefolof
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 03:15
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I started listening to jazz and prog rock about the same time. Now I feel that the records I like most are the ones that combines elements of both. What is creativity anyway, but the combination of two or more already existing ideas?
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Posted By: bsms810
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 03:47
------------- 'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?' 'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 07:27
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First generation prog fans were more likely to hear rock and jazz plus classical in the mix, with many of the early prog groups, Nice, Soft Machine (first two albums), Yes's first album, Krimson, Brian Auger - hence a degree of inescapability. Some inevitability with an organ in the band's set of instrumentation, with the likes of Jimmy Smith influencing, add sax and Coltrane would often be the reference for saxophonists and drummers listening and trying to imitate Elvin Jones, Joe Morello, Art Blakey etc. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 11:39
Well... sarcasm at the side, I told you... I never said it's bad... and sometimes live with an unknown named band it could be interesting... but it lacks of energy for my tastes... and well... whatever, I can live without it and it doesn't mean that you have to become mad about it... I respect them as they are total master musicians... but their music is not appealing to me... so... carry on...  ------------- |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:06
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jampa, you are missing the point entirely. Rocktopus was making fun of you because Diana Krall is in no way representative of jazz as a whole and you don't seem to care enough to learn that fact.
Do these lack energy too?
I don't mean to deride ECM, there's a lot of essential music on there, but when I think of the cornerstone of jazz, I don't think of ECM.
I don't pay attention to dates, but I've found plenty of good jazz in modern times. There's John Zorn, Okkyung Lee, Peter Evans, Charles Gayle, William Parker, and Henry Threadgill, to name a few off the top of my head, and legends like Evan Parker, Wadada Leo Smith, Peter Brotzmann, and Bill Dixon are still rocking. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Procol Harum Machine
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:10
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I believe jazz fusion spun off from prog. King Crimson was also influenced by free jazz, so you never know. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:37
that's a keeper |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:39
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28%+ of voters like jazz as much or more than prog, pretty impressive considering |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:39
well Henry, to be honest with you... just the last one... the Machine gun thing appeals to me and sounds fine... if you ask me, yes... it lacks of energy... I know... they are playing hard and all... but I like a lot more metal or hard rock and entertain me most...
And Rocktopus didn't read that I put there Pastorius and Corea right...?? they are not representative of jazz as well...??? I like some jazz fusion but that's why I like those bands... for the rock edge that they put into their more musical orientation... as I said above... I respected them... but don't mind about jazz.. it bores me... and been honest.. that's all.. but if you suggest me a band that is hard enough... I'm willing to take a look... ------------- |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:43
maybe but I doubt it, and suspect the jazzrockers would have done pretty much what they did had prog never occurred .. good bedfellows though, and there certainly was a crossover with guys like RTF, Colosseum, etc. ..another factor may be that, as jazz musicians, it was easier for them to do 'prog' than for proggers to do 'jazz' |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:47
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:49
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Jampa17, try this: |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:52
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The one in the middle
Bitches Brew is one of my all time favorite albums just so you know... ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:57
oh I have no doubt, in fact I've herd numerous Metheny bits on TWC-- oddly I've been hearing a prog piece recently on there but I can't place it, maybe Kansas |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 20:58
I have heard the first part of "Shine On..." up until the vocals on TWC, very odd experience. |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 21:07
Now... this is heavy enough...!!!  Now we are talking... thanks... this is heavier than what I expect and it's fine... Zu is the name of the band...??? I will check it out... ------------- |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 21:10
I thought you'd like it. Yes, the band is Zu, Carboniferous is there newest album from 2009. There is a lot of stuff on youtube to check out. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 21:17
| ^ neat stuff |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 21:18
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^Great then... I let you know when I get the idea... thanks... have good night Matt... ------------- |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 21:22
Good night, let the avant garde jazz bugs bite. |
Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: January 19 2010 at 23:02
| They are both equal for me, probably in the future sometime jazz will take over prog for me. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 01:21
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Zu are excellent, except they're not jazz, but avant rock
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 04:59
I'm not mad. But you write off jazz exactly the way I parodied you, dismissing rock. I didn't even exagerate. Based on what you write it seems you haven't actually heard jazz. Some jazzpop singstress and a couple of random Jacko Pastorius Chick Corea tracks (which can indeed be a godawful bore) , and you've just decided that you don't like it? Instead of saying that jazz is boring and lacks energy, you should be honest and say that you don't know what jazz is. And that you can live without knowing. You're loss, of course. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 05:01
You mean Carboniferous isn't. Try Radiale. There's jazz in it. ------------- 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 05:02
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Thanks, I'll give it a shot
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 05:07
I'm not really all that interested in jazzguitarists, I just love the sound of Sonny Sharrock. He's more of an exception, really. Most stuff (not all, o fcourse) I heard by say McLaughlin or Derek Bailey I wish they would just stop playing so I can hear the other musicians. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 08:08
Again... I'm just been honest... there were no random tracks of pastorius and Corea music... I have a couple of albums and it really bores me... but, friends of mine told me that I should try them... so, how else do you try a different genre but by hearing what another people that supposed to know of jazz tell you? now, Matt brings out a very heavy band and I say that I will try them...
In the other hand, if somebody don't like jazz, that doesn't mean that he doesn't know what is... sorry if you can't get it, but if you come and said that you don't like prog metal, fine by me... I won't think that you don't know it and that's why you should don't like them... I'm telling you... give me a couple of band of jazz that are really loud and powerful and I will hear them for sure... ------------- |
Posted By: Prog_Bassist
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 08:58
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i love jazz almost as much as prog. I've been playing from a fusion influenced type of playing (im a bass player), like jaco pastorius, jeff berlin, etc., and mixing it from a prog rock angle 'ala geddy, squire, and rutherford. i've been playing like this for years. however, even though i used to be in a semi-fusion band that played a jazz and fusion tune here and there back in high school (we covered chick corea's spain, weather reports birdland, take five, freddie freeloader, donna lee, etc.), i have never fully learned true jazz, which i am going to start now, especially since im going on unemployment :D hahaha although i can play great by ear and know some theory, there's always room for improvement, as my memory for the intense key changes in true jazz is lacking. ------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 09:13
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Jazz will takeover prog for all of us.First because it's impossible to compare a rock sub genre to one of the biggest and diverse genres ever.Second it has everything we love in prog and more. I'm not completely there but I can see jazz taking over for me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ko
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 09:22
| I love jazz even more than prog |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 09:40
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Absolutely not and that's why we don't have a jazz rock fusion category, thank god.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 10:12
Which 1960s greats are you referring to? To any orthodox jazz fan, this may sound like heresy, but early Sixties coryfees like John Coltrane and Charlie Mingus don't really move me. Although I enjoy some "classical" jazz (e.g. Duke Ellington, Miles Davis' KIND OF BLUE, Eric Dolphy's OUT TO LUNCH), jazz for me only really took off when it was noticeably influenced by rock. Back in the 1970s, I grew up with ECM. The first jazz album I ever heard was Keith Jarrett's BELONGING. More or less simultaneously I discovered Pat Metheny, Gary Burton, Eberhard Weber, Ralph Towner, Terje Rypdal, Jan Garbarek and Kenny Wheeler. They were all clearly aware of rock (and even prog rock!) and they were strongly influenced by European concert music. Since I'm European, perhaps that's one of the things that appealed to me. I've no doubt it will also appeal to many proggers. (This is one of the reasons why I supported Eberhard Weber's inclusion on Progarchives.) Some jazz freaks (predominantly US ones) may find the whole ECM thing too staid, too "white" even. I'll admit the entire label seemed a little sickly in the 1980s. But in the past 15 years or so, many ECM artists have packed a real punch, releasing masterpiece after masterpiece, e.g. Tomasz Stanko (Polish trumpeter), Enrico Rava (Italian trumpeter), Bobo Stenson (Scandinavian piano player) - and then there's that clarinettist who released NAPOLI'S WALLS - come, what's his name again? Moreover, some of the things I enjoy the most on ECM are the virtuoso contributions by African Americans. For example, I'll gladly listen to Keith Jarrett's piano trio just for Jack de Johnette's infinitely subtle (but also powerful) drumming alone! |