The problem with stars & bands only slightly progr
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Topic: The problem with stars & bands only slightly progr
Posted By: Dorsalia
Subject: The problem with stars & bands only slightly progr
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 06:01
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The problem with stars and bands only slightly progressive,
Is that people rate albums with 4/5 stars because they consider them masterpieces in general, even if they have little or nothing that could be considered progressive in them. This seems to point to the fact that a lot of people don't appear to take into account the descriptions that go along with the stars. Is Blind Guardian's "Tales From The Twilight Hall" an "Essential masterpiece of progressive rock music"? No. Is it a great, heavy-a%& piece of metal music? Yes, and the same goes for a lot of other records and their respective genres.
This isn't hugely important, but I wanted your opinion.
Saluti. ------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Replies:
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 06:05
 3.76 | 66 ratings | 28% 5 stars Excellent addition to any That's what it says under Ride the Lightning. It's prog related so it's not listed as progressive, just rock music.
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music(28%)
 ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 06:30
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You have enlightened me. I was not aware of this. ------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 06:36
| This has been discussed before in the threat 'how to rate an Iron Maiden album' (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61338&KW=iron+maiden&PID=3386048#3386048). I now try to rate all prog related albums as RELATED, not PROG. I do discuss the progressiveness of the record in my review though, which I think is important information for a review on this site. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 08:18
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Try not to worry about the ratings too much. People are free to either strictly follow the stated guidelines or take them to mean whatever they want. Some people go overboard and give five stars to an artist's album just because they really like the artist. Some people will one star albums because they don't like people giving five stars to an artist's album just because they really like the artist. Not much you can do about it other than not paying too much attention to the ratings. One of the things used to really annoy me when I was new here is people saying they're giving an album x.5 stars and then rounding down. Mathematically incorrect, bad, bad.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 08:36
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I guess that's why written reviews are encouraged, so people can back up their stars. Basically all of my ratings don't have written reviews, but I can honestly say I try to stick to the descriptions of the stars and not just rate based on my preferences. And whenever I have time and/or feel motivated, I stick in a review here or there. Just nitpicking. Cheers.  ------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 09:52
It's always a tricky issue, do we encourage people to reflect the progressiveness in their rating? I guess we'd first need to agree a definition of prog.
The general view tends to be that it is the text of the review which is the really important part, the star rating is the icing on the cake.
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Posted By: petrica
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 10:00
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Probably attaching specific labels and sub-genres to albums will be more appropriate.Also, a 1-10 scale is probably better then 1-5. For example I may consider Iron Maiden - SSOTSS a 5 stars albums because I like it very much but this doesn't mean that this album is pure progressive album from my point of view. PA doesn't allow me to say this(In the rating system because I can for sure explain in the review). But in the end when making the final top the rating is taken into consideration and not what I've said in the review. If we have bands/artists/releases which are not prog by generally accepted standards then we should accept also the fact that someone may like those albums/artists and not taken into consideration the progressive aspect. Is a matter of playing by the rules and to change the rules if these rules are not acceptable anymore. I had watched the evolution of this site in the last few years but maybe is time to change something here and there if there is a current in this direction. |
Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 10:59
------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
kingfriso wrote:Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 17:10
I wonder if Sean Trane is a mathematician http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=253785 ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: December 09 2009 at 17:32
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Progressiveness isn't exactly something that can be measured and as such it will always be a matter of personal opinion. Therefore I believe that ratings should reflect the overall quality of the music rather than its progressiveness. The ratings (as they are now) are way too inaccurate and incomparable to determine the album's progressiveness beforehand without reading the reviews or listening to the album itself. Progressiveness is just one of the elements that can contribute to the overall quality of the music. It will (and should) always be reflected in the ratings, but as part of a greater whole. ------------- 
Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 10 2009 at 17:58
So it doesn't matter if an album is progressive for Prog Related or Proto-Prog ratings description purposes, but if it is not rock, then I take it that it should get a maximum rating of three (unless the rock criterion follows down to lower ratings). Thee key is that it should be a form of ROCK music to get a 4 or 5, but progressiveness does not matter. And for non-Prog-related categories: Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection Good, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists If it's not a form of progressive rock, then I take it it should only a get a maximum of three. Of course Blind Guardian which was used in the original post is in Prog Metal (of course many bands/artists in Prog categories released non progressive rock works). Of course there are albums that one may consider (or are considered Prog) in Prog-Related, and I do rather wish that level of progressiveness, as well as Progginess, was reflected in the ratings. Course music can be progressive without being Prog. I find it a shame that if we found a progressive non-rock album in prog-related or proto-prog, we would be expected to rate it lower than the possible rating for a non-progressive rock album. But I see the ratings descriptions as guides, not rules, and we should use our common, or not so common, sense when rating. |
Posted By: Nightshine
Date Posted: December 16 2009 at 08:06
| The ratings really don't influence my opinion all that much. I generally seem to see things from a negative light, but some of the reasons that people give for downrating various albums are just plain stupid (IE: some Led Zeppelin IV reviews I've seen). |