Do you ever feel sorry for "Prog" fans who just do
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63064
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 10:41
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Do you ever feel sorry for "Prog" fans who just do
Posted By: Progfan1958
Subject: Do you ever feel sorry for "Prog" fans who just do
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:16
|
OK, let's take another thread and reverse the question posed so we can approach it from other angles. Do you ever feel sorry for "Prog" fans who just don't "get" other musical genres or styles ? You would actually think that the very broad range of ideas and musical directions that a "progressive" definition could lead to, that it would actually bring you to almost any musical form. Granted, not just any collection of sounds and words will have broad appeal, but shouldn't open musical ears lead to open musical minds ? ------------- Progfan1958 "Peace to you all" "La paix est avec vous" "Pax vobiscum" "Al salaam a'alaykum" "Vrede zij met u allen" "Shalom aleichem" |
Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:23
yes ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Progfan1958 wrote:Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:25
I take it from the color of your text you like the blues.  I'd have to say 90-95% of my collection now is prog. I blame this site. Prog Archives, give me back my life!!!  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:32
|
Provided it's not a matter of principle, it's ok.
I think most prog fans have arrived there via dissatisfaction with other genres, and the ones I've had contact with mostly tend to delve in other directions out of interest, mostly to come scuttling back under cover quite fast.
Apart from that I also think that a lot of Prog fans are also into other genres. It's not mutually exclusive.
As another afterthough: Most other genres are quite adequately covered in Prog anyway, ableit in a few second bursts here and there, that those genres themselves tend to stretch out over years and discographies.
 |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:36
| I started my interest to music from pop ( shortly in earlier teens), after - hard rock, heavy metal, than - punk and new wave. Heavy metal once again, than ... jazz. I returned back to some rock music from jazz ( whenever after that you can only listen progressive music), but it doesn't means I am prog-maniac! Yes, it sometimes pity, that some prog fans are closed in their kingdom and can't make a short step outside - to modern jazz, avantgarde,etc. But - when people like just progressive instead of Green Day, Celine Dion and 50 Cent, it's a really big deal! |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 06:38
| Not nececarrily. If somebody doesn't like music that's less comlicated than the avarage prog song I'm not sorry for him, neither am I sorry for someone who listens to pop and can't get into prog. They probably are happy with the music they listen to. I do feel sorry for those who can't get into "non-prog" and therefore bash the specific music style. Musical elitism really annoys me now and then. |
Posted By: domizia
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 07:17
|
I too feel irritated at anyone who goes all posh and haughty about listening to prog vs. other genres. I suppose that for some people it's just another way of showing off their intellectualism. But speaking of those who just don't 'get' other kids of music...well, sure, I'm sorry for them, in general. ------------- RPI=> http://www.camelotclubprog.net" rel="nofollow - Camelot Club Prog ...but also> http://www.maracash.com" rel="nofollow - MaRaCash records. |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 07:51
True.
And money!  ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 09:43
Many prog fans that I've met don't appreciate the blues genre and it confuses the H out of me. aLL the jazz improv in blues, the boogie woogie piano, slide guitar, opening tunings. They are so ignorant to blues that they can't tell the difference when someone is singing blues and sounding too like Frank Sinatra or Davy Jones on the "Head" film where Zappa says it sounds real .....W..........then when someone is really complimenting the blues with a glorious voice. Many British Blues Boom singers sounded to me as if they were trying too hard and it's real distasteful sounding to the core. They can't even understand a point like that, due to their reality which says that blues is basically garbage. The broad range of ideas and musical directions that a "progressive" definition could lead to, that it would actually bring you to almost any musical form is something to ponder over. I mean they are just snobs about it and it would be a difficult feat to try and changed or re-direct their minds. My church is better than yours kind of attitude is what we are dealing with. A person like me was more drawn into the blues due to my interest in the lyricism and the folklore. That is another point to make, proggers I've met don't seem to comprehend that old blues lyrics are written in puzzles. Sorry, I've been drinking and I'm talking in circles. Collections of sounds and words that have broad appeal is unfortunately something for proggers to ridicule for an evening of what they would consider simply a good time. I don't know technically the percentage of proggers that would feel this way but, after reading your thread I get the impression that the percentage is high. There are many blues artist like Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters and Buddy Guy or Willie Dixon, British Blues Boom era, that crossover into progressive territory especially due to their expanding on an instrument. The care or concern for that to be put on the judgement stand is not entered into too often at a prog concert. Muddy Waters name is not mentioned along with Steve Howe's or Magma for the most part.
|
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 11:50
|
I mayself enjoy multiple styles of music besides Prog - Other kinds of Rock, Blues, Reggae, Classical, Celtic, Jazz, anything with good guitar playing, Native American, music from around the world (Africa, India, Japan, etc.), all of which exist in broad categories. My openess to variation is what allows me to enjoy Prog along with all these other.
Toddler makes an excellent point - many of the characteristics of Prog are found in other musical genres as well. Good music is good music, no matter in what category we place it. Yet no one has to like anything that someone else says is good. I've heard some Rap that I thought was very well done, yet no one can convince me like the style. There is a difference between appreciation and enjoyment, a distinction I'm not sure all proggers make.
Case in point for the Blues: Jethro Tull always has, and always will, play exclusively within the Blues. Most Rock, including all our listed proto-prog bands, played and play within the Blues. Yes, the Blues rock.
On another point, I challenge any progger to find a guitar player as good as Chet Atkins (and frankly, you won't find a better).
Do I feel sorry for proggers who don't get other genres? Only when they have closed their minds to those other genres, only when pretentions get in the way of appreciation. They don't have to like any of them, but if they know how to listen, they can appreciate more, and possibly enjoy more. But then, itsn't there that side of human nature that just likes to gripe? Or feel superior? I think so, but isn't that also a side for us to overcome as well?
As the old saying goes: "A mind is like a parachute - it only functions when it's open."
 ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 12:16
|
Do these people who like only like Prog Rock actually exist? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Repner
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 13:33
I've seen it before. It's pretty sad. I don't feel sorry for them if they're going to be as narrow minded as the ones I've met who bad mouth any other bands that apparently have no creativity and sound the same  ------------- 
|
Posted By: rpe9p
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 13:53
| I feel sorry for people that reject any music that is popular in an attempt to feel superior and look cool on the internet. These people let their psychological problems get in the way of enjoying music, which is quite a shame. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 14:58
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 15:30
|
Well, still if you only listen to prog, it depends in part on how broadly or narrowly you define it. If broadly, there's still a broad variety of music out there.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 15:56
depends... if thesh*ts good or not ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 16:06
|
I have NEVER met someone who only listens to Prog...
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 16:15
|
I've gotta say, there's huge value in not being boxed in. Sure, exploration and discovery depend on knowing where the borders are so a muso can go outside of them when it suits. I think the early proggers didn't consider themselves a genre, prog was just a description of how they did things: musical evolution thru trying stuff out. The past and present often provide answers that take us to the future, so to exclude other genres is to exclude the progressiveness of Prog! Prog in many ways isn't even a path of invention but of trying to express something of consequence that was always there... if we knew how to hear it. Sometimes we don't have the words to say it but we recognise when someone else has found a sound that says it. Fuse it in to what we already have and we get to say it even better! Prog should be probing the final frontiers, to borrow a term! Cheers -Troob
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 17:04
|
Sorry to get all meta-whizzical on ya there folks! Better introduce myself! I'm all new here, I'm not a diehard progger by decision, I just "am what I am," what ever it turns out to be, to quote the pipe smokin' philosopher Popeyecrotes. I'm a cartoonist/illustrator by trade but that's just work. For me a good bit of music (whatever the genre) is like a good novel or a recollection of a damn good dream! Hopefully it uncovers the bits that I forgot when I woke up. I'm spending half my time on some hammond forums where I'm pimping my road rig. Cheers lads and lasses, pleased to be here! -Brendooon
|
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 19:52
Definitely. I usually try an album lot before having any kind of opinion about any album and i think a large amount of people just don't give the music the time it needs. For example, this past 5 years have been outstanding to progressive rock and metal in general, but the grades are usually very low, even for the albums of the year!+. -------------   
|
Posted By: ProgShine
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 19:53
|
I think is not only in the 'prog' genre, anyone who still 'blind' for all kind of music lose a lot. There's so many great bands and records I listen to every day that aren't prog at all, it doesn't make music 'worst' or 'simple and plane' just takes the music to other levels. Always give a try from everything, thats my motto in music  ------------- https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com 
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 20:09
|
Hi,
I really think that we are too damn stuck up to get more people to appreciate what we call "music" ... and that is the biggest issue of all ...
I don't have to hope that someone will listen to what I do ... any more than I can get some country bumpkins to listen to Beethoven ... it doesn't mean they are stupid ... it means that we're so full of it that we spend out time disrespecting other people, and ... their educational system and ability to know something or not.
It's really sad ... I do think that if this country decides that their education system gets a little better they might help people know that there are arts and music and a whole lot more out there ... but sadly, this is the same around the world, and in some countries this information is intentionally hidden in order to ensure that their culture (or religion) maintains the control it feels that it needs ...
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 20:25
|
Heh! If you think we need more culturally savvy to our thing, Just have kids! These days a lot of 'em absorb dad's classics and take some of it on as their own. My ten year old is swearing Mike Oldfield and War of the Worlds (and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) is all that matters in the world. Oh, and biggles. He may move up to Tull! I've gotta admit some of my tastes rubbed off from my own Dad. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 22:24
Why should I feel sorry for them?
I like a lot of music outside Prog, and a lot of Prog I don't like at all, but that's me, that's my taste, so if somebody likes Classical or Prog alone...Good for them, at least ther are so open minded that they follow an unpopular genre and give a damn abouut what radios, labels and DJ's say,
They are happy with what they like,. if it's Prog, POP or whatever, allow them to decide what fits better to their tastes.
I heard people calling me close minded becaue I hate Rap and Hip Hop, and that pisses me, at least I give a damn if it's cool, popular or whatever.
If somebody listens Rap or Hip Hop because the feel it's the best music and enjoy it......Good for them, if they listen it because they are following the crowd, then I feel sorry for them, because they will never feel the pleasure of listening a song and having goosebumps.
So don't feel sorry for anybody, different things make different people happy.
Iván ------------- 
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 22:36
|
I agree, Ivan. If people THINK enough and find their own musical "sweet spot" that's very very cool! Especially when you hear them enthuse about what's so good about the things they like. Nothing so good as a teacher who loves their subject.
|
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 22:40
I don't think only really enjoying a narrow genre of music is good. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 22:47
Me neither, but I think Ivan was making the distinction between a pop fan who is a sheep, and a pop fan who chooses pop. The difference is that a mindless follower is never going to get the same appreciation out of something than someone who has explored various things and found one to fit them better than the others. It wouldn't make sense to limit yourself to one genre, but whatever floats your boat. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 23:43
|
On a very personal way, I love prog because is mostly music to listen to, just like classical, most jazz, tons of blues and other genres. I'm not so much into music to dance to, and that's why most of the popular music of today does not appeal to me. Even though most of my collection is prog (maybe 90 or 95%), I find a lot of classical masters, jazz artists, etc, as enjoyable as Jethro Tull, Yes, King Crimson, PFM, Gentle Giant, etc. |
Posted By: Fritha
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 03:20
Well, I listen to a lot of fairly popular indie music, new and old, these days but not because it's possible to dance to it more easily. It's perfectly fine music just to *listen* to, just like some of the prog I still enjoy... For a couple of years (2004-2006) I did spend my music listening time almost exclusively in the sphere of progressive music (albeit in the wider meaning of the word) as back then I had discovered it properly for the first time. I did branch out fairly quickly, though, and am grateful for having done so. It was a very refreshing experience and it kind of made me appreciate the things I like about prog even more as a result. But do I feel sorry for those who choose to remain within prog? No, not really - I assume they must feel content with the way things are, otherwise they would take the initiative to step out of their comfort zone. After all, it's so easy to do that these days with the internet and all its possibilities at our disposal. ------------- I was made to love magic |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 04:22
| I think it's a waste of time to feel sorry for people who only like prog. It's their decision to make what music they listen to or not. Yeah it's nice to jazz up your live a bit, have some classic metal coming out of your stereo when coming home from work and it's great to have some dedicated blues in your collection. But the point is: who are you to feel sorry for people who don't? This is a stage of arrogance I can't appreciate. Progressive music is big enough to cover all moods one can experience so it's a sufficient sort of music. Quit feeling sorry for this an that please! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 04:49
Great post Ivan.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Progfan1958
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 06:29
|
Good day to you Ivan ! Yes, the expression "feeling sorry" is not really the best fit, but I've just used it to play off of another post for consistancy. In general I think that it's great when people broaden what they listen to, because you can take something from pretty much any form if you think about it. A lot of "Prog" results from hydridization of often quite strange styles, and that's why a lot of of us really love it, because we crave the adventure. That doesn't mean that we don't enjoy more "conventional" material though. I have a friend ( Dave ) who is quite a musical paradox at times-he goes from King Crimson,Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden, to ABBA and The Flower Kings and James Blunt. ! Me, I started almost 40 years ago with Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd, ELP, and Yes, ( Radio was half-decent then ) and have not stopped exploring. I discover a lot of artist by reading about them now ( There are some pretty good British music magazines ) , as well as by connecting one artist to another by collaboration/associations etc. ( King Crimson-The Bears-David Sylvian-Steven Wilson-Porcupine Tree-Spock's Beard-Kevin Gilbert-Toy Matinee...) ------------- Progfan1958 "Peace to you all" "La paix est avec vous" "Pax vobiscum" "Al salaam a'alaykum" "Vrede zij met u allen" "Shalom aleichem" |
Posted By: silcir
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 08:31
| well, that's a bit sad if u only listen to prog, but, hey, that's not my problem, i can't feel the least bit sorry for that person and it applies to any music genre. i think it's sad, but i don't care. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 08:56
Well, Prog is far from being narrow, bands like:
Are radically different one with another, if you like them all, or at least a good number of them, you like a lot of genres, so hardly would call Prog a narrow genre. Now, people who like Prog, rarely like ONLY Prog, because our beloved genre is a blend of sounds, sttyles and genres, so theoir ear are used to fifferent music, but if they only like Prog......Great for them.
You must listen what pleases you, not what others expect you to like.
In Perú there is creole music, I don't like it, I find it boring, repetitive, vulgar and lack of musicality in most cases, but my brother in law's family can't understand how in hell I can like Rock, they breathe and sweat "Musica Criolla", the difference is that I don't share their tastes, but I understand why they like it.
Dictator Velazco, tried to destroy Rock, he threw Santana out of the country for political reasons (stupid reasons to be honest, he was accused of being a Yanquee agent and because he used marihuana
) even when 100,000 souls had paid the concert, in 1970. Even a few months ago, if you made a Musica Criolla concert, you didn't almost paid taxes, if you made a Rock concert, you had to pay a extra 15% because it wasn't considered cultural........THAT'S BEING NARROW MINDED.But if I know what I like and respect other people's tastes, even when don't share them, it's ok with me, if you like, one, two, or tmn different genres, it's equally great, life is too short to please others doing what they think is correct, like whatever you want, as long as you understand others who like whatever you don't
Iván -------------
|
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 12:00
|
I do feel a bit sorry, just because I feel they could have a better music experience if they opened up their minds, but not so much, because music is a "to each their own" sort of thing. I definitely feel better having opened up to different styles then when I was a teen and only listened to the most elite underground metal recordings. Knowing all sorts of music is good for you, I swear!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">  
|
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 12:10
|
Why would anyone here feel sorry for someone who has found music that makes them happy? That, to me, is not good. This notion that what we perceive as someone else's limited taste in music is somehow sad or wrong or not good is absurd and arrogance of the highest degree. People so often perceive others through their own biases. That is no way to look at other people, especially if you want to understand them and communicate with them. Personally, I can honestly say that the vast majority of my listening time is devoted to prog (well, except when I listen to Porcupine Tree.........sorry, couldn't resist  ). 95% of my music collection is prog. I would feel sorry for anyone who felt they needed to feel sorry for me. It's music that gives me great joy, great satisfaction. If I get bored with it, or tired of it, I will actively seek out new and different forms of music. Just like I did when I felt something was missing from the "classic" rock I grew up listening to, and discovered prog.I find it strange that proggers often feel this need to enforce their so called "open mindedness" on the rest of the music listening world. Some people like just one kind of music and are totally happy with that. They don't want you feeling sorry for them and probably don't care if you do (and probably think your favorite music sucks anyway ). |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 12:24
 (not that I do... but there are people who do. And I'm not sure what could be so wrong about them if this statement is true...) ------------- 
|
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 15:38
|
It's not like "we're going to cry for you because you must be sad listening to such a limited range of music." It's more like "what a shame that you limit yourself like that." It's not that anyone feels the need to feel sorry for you. If you had never ridden a bike, or if you had never climbed a mountain, I would also feel sorry for you. It's not arrogance of the highest degree, and I'm not forcing an open mind on you, I'm just saying "you should try this, you're missing out." Would you get all huffy-puffy if someone told you you should try sushi?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">
|
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 15:44
|
I will, quite often, have a massive Smiths night, when Moz is on perpetually. I also love The Levellers, Tansads, and bands of that folk/punk rock ilk. I love classical music, and am also partial to good pop music and the blues. It's each to their own. I feel sorry for those who close their ears to all but a particular sub genre, but prog always was and remains my first love. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 17:38
I recently discovered that G.F. Handel wrote a few organ concertos. WOW! I cant' stop listening. Very Proggy!! 
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 17:44
Names, serial numbers?? Recommendations! I must listen to these babies myself. Going thru a Hammond Phase, y'see.... my improv sounds a bit Bach like (or Vince Crane, perhaps!) a bit of Handel ought to do me good. Thanks a bunch.... -Brendooooon
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 17:48
|
I save my sympathies for "Prog" fans who just don't.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 18:05
Don't progress, d'ye mean? Getting old is a sort of progression. I wonder if that counts?
|
Posted By: Guitar1Jesse
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 18:09
|
I am unattracted to songs about riding in the car with your homies ready to party, or a song about the party, or a song about the girls at that party. It's all too obvious to me. I don't like songs that are rediculously relatable either, like A LOT of country music. I seek music that has more under surface. Something that'll get you thinking analytically, not just about your ex girlfriend or the party you were at last week. That is why I prefer prog, because it "progresses" past the obvious and brings on new wonderment and critical thought. Of course there are always exceptions.
------------- Take a few minutes and listen to this! http://www.myspace.com/jlangmusic |
Posted By: Dorsalia
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 05:36
|
Yes, I do. ------------- "Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls." |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 06:44
One of the pitfalls of not being to invited to parties is that nagging regret that you never got the opportunity to decline with withering contempt. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 06:57
|
Hey you, yes, I'm talking to you, you boring song full of nothing. I'm sorry, do you understand ? Sorry, sorry, SORRY! -something like that ? :-) ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 07:24
|
Try and find a hip hop forum, with a prog rock thread....
It just doesn't happen, but in this community we discuss metal, indie, electronica, classical, blues, even musicals FFS!! I dont personally know any prog fans who are musically narrow minded. Having an open mind goes with the territory. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 07:38
|
Well, I like country, folk, some musicals, film soundtracks (classical likes, not pop songs), classical music (something), something from pop (from time to time), even some electro rock (like Lemon Jelly). Also of course rock, symphonic prog, heavy metal (all prog related genres basically, like not cliché metal, good jazz). I don't like old jazz (20-40s), very old pop songs, but pop songs from 60s-70s are good for me. Of course hip-hop and death metal, as I can't stand it, it's quite clear that I don't like it. Am I narrow minded ? ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my |
Posted By: Jorvik
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 08:40
|
I don't believe in being open minded, I don't want my brain to fall out. I found this thread quite disturbing at first, but I've been heartened by a few responses. I've noticed a fair bit of inverse snobbery, for want of a better phrase, on PA from time to time – this whole notion that you must be open minded, with all the insinuations that go along with that. People should be more open minded about people's narrow-mindedness. I don't listen to music other than prog, it simply doesn't excite or interest me. Within prog there's way more variety than I need to keep me satisfied. To say that someone is missing out, is to impose your tastes and values on them. "Have you heard this? I like it and you might enjoy it " is fine, but "You don't know what you're missing out on" is rather arrogant, in my opinion. Being open to argument and persuasion is all well and good in discussions about objective issues – I don't see a problem with knowing your own mind and being single-minded when it comes to matters of taste. ------------- I ljuset från min lykta ser jag skuggan utav sorg drömmar som har slocknat ifrån ett liv som haft sin tid |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 09:23
Nope, I wouldn't. But I also wouldn't want them to feel sorry for me if I choose not to. And, yes, it IS arrogant to think that it's a shame that someone "limits" themselves, based on your subjective criteria of what is "limiting" or not. By the way, I'm not "huffy-puffy", just rational. I don't really care if others feel sorry for me or think I'm limiting myself. Though, as I think I mentioned, I do enjoy lots of different music from time to time, I just prefer to spend most of my quality listening time with prog (which contains more than enough variety if you ask me.....assuming you listen to most of its sub-genre's, like I do). |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 09:25
Well said. My sentiments exactly (though I do enjoy listening to other type of music sometimes.......I just don't have much besides prog in my collection). |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 09:30
You are wrong, probably you will find at least one saying "Prog Rock is Crap" or "What's wrong about Prog Rock", etc. They believe Hip Hop is the best music in the world...And what's wrong with that?
The are being honest with themselves.
Check a Punk forum:
They don't have a problem saying Prog is crap, and it's great for them, they believe Punk was necesary because Prog was destroying Rock and they came to save it.
But if we dare to say,a timid "Hey I like Prog more than most of the other genres" in a Prog site...People in this Prog forum call us close minded............PLEASE!!!!!!
If I have 3,000 Prog albums (LP's, CD's, Cassettes, DVD's) and don't believe Prog is the best music out there....Then I'm lying to myself.
Aren't we being more paists than the Pope?
Iván -------------
|
|||||||
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 11:57
It depends how you define open minded. I guess we're coming at this from different angles. I would imagine that most forum members here, do think that prog is the best type of music there is, but that doesn't stop many members positively discussing the merits of other styles and genres, including punk and hip hop. That's what I call being open minded, compared to possible one off threads on punk or hip forums that run prog rock down. You're going to find some closed minded people, who are only receptive to one style of music, on any music forum. But I would say the opened minded clan have the significant numbers here. Part of the difference with progressive rock is that it is mostly about the quality of composition and/or musicianship, whereas punk is usually cited for its cultural 'significance' and what it stood for, rather than the music itself. I've known enough punks in my time, to have had an insight into their philosophy on music, and enough hip hop fanatics, who believe that music is worthless unless it fits into what they see as specific hip hop templates. I've known people who hate the sound of guitars, or who write a band off, because it members look 'silly' Not many people with mentality aroud here, as far as I can see. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 12:54
|
As the initial question was made, No, I don't feel sorry by anyone who listen to anything... I don't like that some try to feel special by hearing something that others don't, but at the end, if they like wierd music, who can blame them...??? I mean, I love prog rock, I like other styles always inside rock, but I don't like most of the mainstream non rock music, like hip-hop, electronic, pop and whatever danceable music, so, someone could feel sorry for me...??? I don't and I don't mind... because I like the music that I enjoy beyond explanation, don't need to hear more music or styles, I feel that I just am discovering the Iceberg peak in prog rock, so I don't mind other styles, I'm just progressing inside a genre, is that to feel sorry about...??? I think both threads are kind of silly... I don't know one single person who exclusively likes only one thing and get stuck on that... but well... I gues I made my point right...??? ------------- |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 13:22
|
Actually, what Ivan posted from that punk rock forum does make one valid point: a lot of proggers (musicians and fans alike), take themselves too seriously. As I've said before in this thread, if someone is happy with listening to just one genre of music, then more power to them. Not everyone feels the need to analyze their likes and dislikes in music endlessly like a lot of us proggers seem to. I listen to what I enjoy. No one should feel sorry for that. |
Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 14:14
| I only feel sorry for people who don't listen to the music they like. If they like prog only, I don't care. Why should I feel sorry for someone who does'nt listen what he dislikes? I definetly don't. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 14:17
|
Yes. This year i've been listening to classic rock, hard rock, alternative & grunge alot more than prog. I even like some pop songs. Take THAT! |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 14:50
Only some pop songs?  ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 15:19
Yep. Like most Kent songs and Orup "Min mor sa till mig". The latter is pretty embarrasing, but it's good!  |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 15:19
| Being musically open minded does NOT mean you automatically like all music. I could be open as I possibly could be to my 13 year old sister's musical tastes, but thats not going to say I like a second of it! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 15:21
|
No person is only able to enjoy one genre of music, so I think that having an extreme majority of your collection be one genre shows either an unwillingness to expand (not necessarily an intention one!) or an obsession with a certain sound. Because while prog has a broader stylistic palette, it is still chained by being "rock", so Genesis is not classical music, Raga is not Indian music, Fusion is not jazz, etc. And I view requiring that extra oomph of rock to be limiting when, speaking in broad musical terms, there is a lot more to music than rock, and this applies even more to a relatively small subgenre like prog.
It's not subjective to say that you're limiting yourself by only enjoying rock music. It is an objective fact that prog is not a very large movement, speaking in terms fo the broad music world. But I am aware that there is a disconnect between me and the majority of this website because I do not understand how someone can listen to Genesis for 30 years, and I have an increasing dissatisfaction with the tenants of rock. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: SMSM
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 17:26
|
I believe I can understand this because on a radio show there was some Chuck Berry music being played in the background, and the hosts stated about sorry for having the listeners having to hear this and they were going to play some "real (progressive rock) music"
On the other hand, some snobbery works the opposite way with certain Folk, RAP and Punk music being applauded by the mainstream music press (many of whom stick their nose up at prog) because of the lyrics, but in my mind, the music behind it has a lot to be desired.
|
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 17:31
|
I definately do, I mean I almost couldn't live without folk music but prog is still my favorite genre ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
|
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 17:56
I don't rate single forms of music about 95% of the time apart from jazz and classical music. I don't rate most funk, metal, disco, hard rock etc. I just don't think the ideas, composition, complexity and style reaches the standard I'm after. It has to be a fusion of 2 styles to get my interest and it has to involve a good even mix of musicians and instruments. So this means it has to be jazz or classical based music fusioned with rock, folk or any other style except for metal usually because it is too guitar/vocal based. Busy rock music is the best form for me. Old style prog covers many different styles, so it's not like we don't have variety  ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 19:20
The Concertos are nicely done by the Academyof Ancient Music with Richard Egarr. The label is DG. A DL is available on iTunes with pretty good sound all things considered. Hope you like em'.
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 22:14
Cheers old bean! I'll go dig 'em out. Handel will be a treat! Muchly appreciated. -Brendon ------------- Tales of the Ancient Troubadour: http://www.myspace.com/ancienttroubadour. Promo album download on request. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 25 2009 at 23:02
I feel sorry for:
If this is the true, then Neil Armstrong probably feels sorry for the billions that never went to the moon Now...Doesn't this sound arrogant?
In the same way feeling sorry for peope who have a defined musical taste and think it's the best music in the world for their taste, is absurd.
Iván -------------
|
Posted By: Ancient Troubadour
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 00:49
|
I feel sorry for myself cos I just dropped my C3 on my foot and didn't have shoes on. I'm bleeding for prog rock! ------------- Tales of the Ancient Troubadour: http://www.myspace.com/ancienttroubadour. Promo album download on request. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 02:46
If you look back on the 70's and 80's (or even the 90's) you'll discover plenty of great pop bands and artists waiting to be checked out. I grew up with all kinds of stuff like that thanks to my dad and I still enjoy most of it today!
------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Progfan1958
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 05:57
|
Thank goodness it wasn't a Steinway ! Now THAT would hurt, and leave a mark ! ------------- Progfan1958 "Peace to you all" "La paix est avec vous" "Pax vobiscum" "Al salaam a'alaykum" "Vrede zij met u allen" "Shalom aleichem" |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 06:38
|
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 10:05
|
A non-valid response I've seen on this thread time to time is the "fans of X are close-minded, so there is no reason for me to be open-minded." Come on, you certainly see the logical fallacy in that. Quoting what others think of prog is no reason for any beliefs you may hold. Yeah, punks are on a high horse, so what? Does that mean you should be?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 15:42
believe you are making a "Reductio ad Absurdum", nobody says it's ok to be close minded because: LIKING ONLY PROG IS NOT BEING CLOSED MINDED You like what you like, nobody can force you to like everything because it's "politically correct" to say, "Hey I'm very Eclectic, I like Rap, POP and Prog,, how great and open minded I am, everybody should be like me or I'll be sorry for them" The point about the example on other forums, is that this is a Prog devoted forum, we should not criticize anybody for liking Prog, it's absurd, as if somebody in a Rap forum wanted to force you to like Prog or Classical Music......This forum was created for PROGRESSIVE ROCK, whatever else can be discussed, is secondary and should be posted in the General Music forum, for people to join, not join and express their positive or negative opinions.. But we believe we are so great and so superior, that we want to tell Prog fans, what is good for them, if they only like Prog, poor of them, they are worth nothing, just a close minded elitists who are limiting themselves, better be like "me" and listen everything because that is the correct thing to do. Saying that a Prog listener is close minded is a contradiction, you can't be fan of an unpopular genre, that nobody except a few people like us like, that doesn't make you cool or fashionable and at the same time close minded. You had enough open mind to say no to radios, DJ's, labels, musical industry, critics and your friends to say I like Prog and I give a damn about what this people say, this is the antithesis of being close minded. Iván-------------
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 16:10
|
Wonderful! Thanks, Iván. Being one-sided is not being close-minded. A breath of fresh air. |
Posted By: Progfan1958
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 17:22
|
Ivan, just because you like primarily prog does not mean you are close minded, so no-one should even make that assumption. Though being a prog rock fan ( Defined as at we generally call "rock" based ) often lead to other "progressive" musics. Enjoy what you like, and you never know where it will take you over time. Ciao. ------------- Progfan1958 "Peace to you all" "La paix est avec vous" "Pax vobiscum" "Al salaam a'alaykum" "Vrede zij met u allen" "Shalom aleichem" |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 18:03
|
Even if one just listens to a wide variety of albums deemed Prog by PA's standards (and teams), one is not just a Prog fan. There's so much variety in the various categories here and while an album may be called Prog by some, it may be classified using other labels by others. Some isn't really rock at all. For instance, based on those albums, one might be dubbed a chamber rock or chamber music fan, an experimental music fan, an electronic or kosmische music fan, a psych psycho, a Fusion aficionado, or an alt. rock dude. I don't really find the Prog label descriptive enough when explaining my tastes to many people and can give the wrong impression. Some people will just think of ELP and stuff like that. Anyway, it would indeed by rare for those who like Prog (course definitions of Prog vary, and some are far more inclusive) to only listen to Prog as it is commonly a fusion of musical genres/ influences. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 20:31
I have to admit that 99.99 % of my collection is music. I estimate that 60% is great music, another 30% is good, some 8% has me wondering why I haven't used the CD to see from how far I can toss it into a waste bucket. The other 2% I just can't listen to, so I don't know  Whatever is left over after all of those is likely influenced by psychedelic / space rock as far as blame, I blame technological advances for having over 2000 CDs. First I traded or sold my LPs for cassettes, then I bought LPs at yard sales when others started buying cassettes and CDs only, then I sold or traded my cassettes & LPs for CDs. Then, when I got a computer, I burnt albums onto CD-Rs, sold or traded the originals for more CDs, which i then continued the pattern. Unfortunately, there is no sense in buying a new CD at $16, burning it, and selling or trading it for $3-4. And strangely, as if to come full circle, you can still buy a used LP for $6-10, and sell or trade it back for at least half of what you paid. Which I then upload to my PC, and burn to a CD-R  Of course, I have told myself that when the next advance in music technology comes around, a good 30% of what i now own will not make it. After all, if after 4 years you come to realize that you really never liked that album by "?", are you going to preserve it ? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:22
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:45
Ivan, I think the point being made is that some Prog fans are close minded. Some are close minded about what is prog, and some are close minded on where people (not all, not just one, in general ) can find good music, i.e. music that they will like. This last sin is to be found in fans of all genres. It is not restricted to prog fans. The same as many fans of other genres also are open to different musiques outside their preferred type. As far as the "prog is unpopular" cross that you seem to bear & love to take the podium with, I wish that the numerous threads about prog's unpopularity had helped you realize that amongst ALL musical genres that one could enumerate , Prog actually does quite well comparatively. As a genre, it has some mega platinum sellers (A few Floyd, a couple of Rush, some Tull, Kansas, if you're from Quebec, Harmonium - nuff said), it has a good number of careerists, many cult acts, and a ton of other acts varying in obscurity. Now, I wish I had a latin phrase to state how your usual case for "How Prog is unpopular compared to Pop" is based on weak arguements. but I don't. So I'll put it in plain english ;;; Pop music is composed of many many many (not quite to infinity, but there's no dearth of music journalists working to "discover" new ones) different genres. Prog, as a sub-genre of Rock music, is one of them. Why ? Because some prog acts, as with most other genres, are able to sell massive quantities of albums, and draw mega crowds for concert tours. Thus, it is popular music (therefore Pop music). And as with most other genres, you have lower tiers, with their respective size followings. Sooooo , Pop vs Prog ? Pop wins. But only because Pop would include Rock, top 40, metal, hard rock, reggae, punk, jazz, country, whatever Micheal Buble is, rock n roll and all its' various manifestations, some classical, folk, world, traditional, blues and so on. If we allow music journalists to justify their expertise, we can then expand (you could compare it to the Big bang and after) all these into sub-genres, not to mention the mish mash genres that have become rampant through the ingenuity of PR campaigns and hipster insistence that they are different (Klezmer metal, Jazz bluegrass, Reggae ambient) . Once the realization comes that the battle for the title (that doesn't exist) of the most popular music is not limited to one behemoth Pop, versus one middle weight Prog (unless that progster is porgy or bess), but rather a mass of barely identifiable by concrete means generalized suppositions of what genre any given music might be, then one should come to know that too much time has been spent on figuring out how a genre can be unpopular and contain a half dozen acts that have combined for world record sales of many many millions, when the Kids in the Hall are still working towards putting enough money away to retire. Bluegrass is unpopular because Pop is more popular. But then, one could say that Bluegrass is unpopular because Jazz is more popular. Or that more people prefer their grass green. Some others - rolled, and once rolled more music becomes popular with them. Metal is unpopular because Pop is more popular. Pop is unpopular because once you look at all the other genres, their record sales and concert attendances ... well ... Pop is unpopular because all the other genres are more popular. So now, I'm going on Wikipedia, and I'm going to write a new definiton of Pop music to alert reality that Pop music, once all other specific genres are taken into account, well, Pop music is not popular, and thus should be renamed - Not Pop music. Once this revolution in music thinking has taken root, I expect bands to advertise their music as "not prog", "not punk", "not country", and so on. This will make it easier for , say, a country fan to know that they probably will not like a "not country" band. Once academia (amongst them Macademians) has established theoretical criteria for its study, we shall see the establishment of "not musical" chairs, where the point of the game is to stay sitting in you chair rather than risk not getting a new one. Being open minded is not about saying no. There is no open mindedness in saying that others cannot find good music outside of prog. One may believe that there is no good music outside of prog. One should not believe that others cannot or should not do so. I am not a lawyer. I am Canadian. We live next to the greatest nation in the world, and arguably in history. Not that we don't think that we're better than them. We usually think less of ourselves. Unless someone says so to our face. We have the best beer in the world, and are ready to drink a two four of yours to make sure. We have facts to back up our claims. Our most recent census of beavers clearly shows we are the best dammed country in the world. We are the country from which the only band that has fans that can claim to be cool and or nerdy - Rush ! We had a band so heavy, that they could bench press their equipment - BTO. Our female musical artists, at one time this past decade , occupied the top spot in their respective music fields - Shania, Alanis, Celine, Sarah. We are a nation so attached to our coffee that we call it by its' first name - Tim's ! We believe we live in the best place in the world, and appreciate it whenever we come back from Florida. Only in Canada do you have Red Rose tea. Only in Canada do you have a professional sports league where the annual East vs West championship can be played between two western teams. Only in Canada will you find people who repeatedly tell you that they are tired of talking about separation of one part of the country, only to talk about their own part seceding. And only in Canada ... did a site like prog archives begin. Stompin' Tom, Helix, Les Canadiens et la Sainte Flannel, Cayouche, Corb Lund, Social Credit, peace keeping, hockey, lacrosse, a country where media can't explain why Medicare defines Canadians as a people. a country that knows that caring for all defines them as a people. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 23:31
|
Seems you're unable to understand the meaning of sarcasm, in your obsession to contradict me you answer without having read the whole thread: I'm replying to this post:
Better read the whole thread before giving opinions
For God's sake, that's what i said in my frst post!!!!!!!
I believe that as usual you don't get my point. If there's somebody who only likes Prog or POP or Salsa or Hip Hop opr Tiberian Yodeling.....God for him, if he enjoys that, no reason to feel sorry for him.
What's the point? If you like one, two or 100 genres, it's OK, no need to feel sorry for anybody.
You are talking about 30 or 40 years ago!!!!! And if out of several thousand bands, 5 are popular, it's nothing compared to the popularity of the mainstream genres, but if elieving that Prog is popular makes you feel better...Go on.
I will reply in English also:
But if you want to believe Prog is a popular genre,. it's OK with me, I don't agree, but it's your idea.
Yes, 30 or 40 years ago, and six out of at least 5,000...Very popular (Just in case sarcasm)
Bluegrass is a local phenomenom, very popular in certain regions, but outside them, very little.
Please Claude...I said ANY KIND OF MUSIC, NOT POP SPECIFICALLY..PLEASE READ MY POSTS!!!!
And Metal is a very popularv genre, last month 1,500 went to see Kansas in Lima, Peter Gabriel reached 5,000 with tickets sold at 50% of their cost in the door.
Metallica sold 37,000 tickets in less than one day and still there are many days before the show
That's popularity, radios play Metal, radios don't play Prog. Maybe not as popular as most mainstream genres, but it's very popular.
Good luck
Yes saying you like something depite all the media tells you what you listen is uncool, boring, self indulgent, arrogant, etc, is being open minded.
BTW: I'm tired of that word
- If somebody starts a thread about Michael Jackson and I say I don''t like his music...I'm close minded.
- If I say I don't like RaP or Hip Hop....Again I'm close minded
- If somebody starts a thread about Punk, and I say I dislike Punk..Again I'm close minded
Foir God's sake, I can like whatever fits my taste better.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I BEEN SAYING BEFORE YOUR LONG POST, YOU CAN ONLY LIKE PROG, ONLY POP, ONLY RAP, ONLY CLASSICAL, ONLY JAZZ OR ONLY ANYTHING, AND NOBODY HAS TO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.
Why should we like 2 or 10 genres, why can't we like only one? Because you like more than one?
I like a lot of music outside Prog, but I don't consider that any person who likes only one genre (despite the genre), is close minded
I also think we have the best bear and that our coffee (without a nickname) along with Colombian and Cuban is the best of the world......
But what's your point?
Iván -------------
|
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 08:42
|
Lol, this has spiraled into cryptic abyss, so I'm going to ignore everything else that has happened and focus on this:
First off, this has nothing to do with political correctness. I simply believe there is a great wide world of music outside of our sheltered little genres and that we ought to explore it. I don't listen to pop, country, jazz, or any of the various genres of latin music because it is the correct thing to do, I listen to those genres because I genuinely enjoy those genres. I can't even imagine only listening to prog, the thought of something so confining is terrifying to me, I couldn't do it! I reiterate that's it's not arrogance, and those examples you gave don't shake me at all. I've never surfed. I seriously wouldn't have a problem if you felt sorry for me. I wouldn't call it arrogance, and actually I would like to go surfing one day. Hell, I feel sorry for everyone who's never been to the moon too, and that includes myself
People who stick to one thing and don't go for new experiences are almost by definition close-minded. You might have been open-minded when you discovered prog, but that doesn't mean you are now. I'm not going to accuse you specifically of being close minded, mind you, I don't know enough about what you like. Also, there's a difference between never having experienced something and choosing not to experience something. The former being sheltered, the latter is being close minded. Close minded isn't always a bad thing. I'm close minded on murder, should I be open to new experiences like killing people? I'm sure limiting myself by not killing people  I do insist however that being close minded in regards to music, or any art for that matter, is a bad thing.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 09:49
I have highlighted some parts of your post and believe me most of them sound arrogant:
1.- Yes it's politicaly correct: If anybody posts anything about any band, or genre, if you say you don't like it,. then you are describesd as close minded, no matter how absurd is the proposition:
or:
And as this, hundreds of ecxample, if youdon't agree with anything, you are close minded, so you have to be politically correcyt and say everything is OK.
2.- You listen those genres because you enjoy them:And what about people who don't enjoy anything besides Pro or Pop or Rap or Salsa...Can't they have a full live and don't need your pitty?
3.- You say people who stick to one thing is close minded: Wouldn't be more accurate o say this people have a defined taste? You are judging them for your standards, learn to accept what others like, your standards are good for you, but not for the rest of the world.
4.- You ask if there's a difference betwen having explored somethng and refusing to explore it: I also talked about this , if dsomebody listens POP or Rap or Hip Hop, becayse he/she enjoys it,...Great for them, If somebodyvlistens it because it's cool and popular and refuse to check uncool music, then he/she is a sheep.
5.- You say being close minded in music is wrong: I agree, but Inot liking what you klike is not close midness, refusing to explore something COULD be being close minded (Or just that you don't need more music than you already have), but exploring other genres and don't likeng them is a PERSONAL CHOICE.
Iván
BTW: It's not my case, I like lots of music outside Prog (I won't mention them becauseIdoin't need to justify my taste), but I respect the taste of the people, evenif it's vast or limited.
-------------
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 19:08
|
Talking to Eric at Spin-It today. Seems that there's this DVD documentary on Punk Rock. And there's this old guy (mid 40s) who goes on this spiel that true punk & especially hardcore punk died by the early 80s. Eric and others in our local music scene find this hilarious. Kinda like those here who insists that real prog died in 1977. Add to this, I always share a good laugh with them when they go on about the "purists" (that's a nice version of their words) who claim that punk (or insert your favourite genre here) is the only honest / good / real music there is. I sometimes wonder if it's local punk legend Ray Auffrey's doing. His attitude to music - "you never know where you'll find good music". The guy is into just about everything, punk to prog, metal to maritime old time country singers, classic rock to some classical. Something about his main goal being to find music to enjoy, with no need for the music to "prove" how superior he or his tastes are. Now back to Fear of Lipstick's "Indie Band" EP. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 19:10
Damn, I forgot to read the pyramid riposte to my my pyramid quote repartee. Oh well, there's an hour of my life that I can put to better use ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:39
|
Ivan, I'm saving myself some time here the main flaw in your arguement is this - that everything that is not prog, is pop. that mainstream media (radio, tv, mags) present a complete picture of what most people listen to. that the very tip of the sales figure iceberg represents the same breakdown in sales per genre as the rest of the iceberg. you never volunteer the criteria for how you decide any genre is to be considered as "popular" or "unpopular". Indeed, the closest you ever came was to state that that are not prog.. then, when some of us make it a point of providing factual information contrary to yours, you simply sign off by saying that it doesn't matter what we've said, you still believe prog is unpopular. You have never defined what you mean by "Pop". You have never addressed the reality that most record & ticket sales are not for the top dozen or so acts. You don't seem to realize that one act that is able to make a career out of playing their music means more than a one hit wonder who ends up working as a Walmart Greeter within a year after their single leaves the "charts". You regularly present the impression that your taste in music, mostly prog, is objectively based. You often come across as the type of person who proclaims their self to be superior to others by the simple fact that whatever characteristic makes for a superior person are those that you just happen to have. There is a term with the same initials as Prog Archives that aplies all too frequently to you. Please, it is all just music. None better than another. One's preferences are just that. TO spend one's time pointing out the supposed crown of thorns one wears proudly as a symbol of the persecution that one endures for proudly stating that one loves a genre of music does not mean that there is any truth to one's assumed perception. John Lydon was brutally beaten by 3 men in an alley, and when the police arrived, he was charged with assault. THAT IS PERSECUTION. You, on the other hand, are surely not faced with most of life's challenges as faced by most of the rest of us. Living from one paycheque to another, scrimping & hoping to be able to save enough money to send your kids to college or university, wondering if your job will be there in a year, worrying if you'll be able to affford medical care if a major emergency should happen. In other words, you seem to believe that you are what you have achieved, when all you are is lucky that you have gotten to where you are. Don't talk about hard work. There's more than a few people at the poverty level that would ring your neck for even insinuating that they are poor because they don't work hard. You may be intelligent enough to have succeeded well at University. Many intelligent people didn't get the chance to get there. many un-intelligent people have managed to achieve success in their studies and their work through hard work and luck. some deservingly, some not. In many of our MSN conversations after our genre team meetings, I felt like I was being given your resume. As if being told of your accomplishments was relevant to our working at PA. Rarely, if ever, did you seem to talk about things that weren't "successes", or supposed challenges that you heroically managed to overcome. I'll end here, and post a few questions to see if you can clearly define what is pop or not ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:39
|
pop music mavens ? Madonna and Metallica ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:41
|
Are Abba AND AC/DC both pop ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:41
|
Is Keith Urban pop like U2 ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:44
|
Them Crooked Vultures and Bon Jovi ?pop or maybe kinda like rock , but not the same sort of rock music as each other.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:46
|
Carrie Underwood and Coldplay - is there any way to tell the difference between them ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:48
|
50 Cent and Trans Siberian Orchestra (currently # on the Billboard album chart) ? obviously both pop, because they' re on Billboard pop chart. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 21:49
|
Darius Rucker singing country and Rod Stewart singing 60s soul music ? Pop music ? Country or pop ? Soul or Pop ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 22:06
|
last "pop" bit Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon , every year, outsells 99% of that year's new releases. John Lennon, Ramones, Kurt Cobain, T-shirts outsell all of this year's top 40 chart makers. You're more likely to meet someone wearing a pink Floyd , Lamb of God, Dream Theater T-shirt than Celine Dion or Michael Buble. Prog is, was, and always will be one music genre that will hold its' own. It doesn't rely on trends, its' bands draw fans despite musical fads, its' past music still sells as well as other music of its' time, its' current scene does more than survive, and indeed, along with many niche genres , it thrives. Not because the sales charts are filled with Prog acts. Metal, punk, and other genres don't represent anything close to a major part of any record sales chart. But there are many new groups out there making a go of it, many careerists who are still around after 10-20-30 years. There's bands with cult followings. Just the same as most genres. So if you are really proud of prog, take a moment to see that prog is still here, and not about to disappear. Prog has many festivals. Most don't draw millions. But then, most music festivals don't. O.K., so when someone mentions prog or asks about it, just say that, yeah, it's still around, there's a ton of good music there, that a lot of people would be surprised to find out that there's prog that they already like or might, and that even if most people don't care about it, that there's still a sizeable fan base that supports a thriving scene. For comparison's sake, a lot of the sub-genres in metal, punk, country (yes, it's called alt-cournty, outlaw, honky tonk, traditional and more), rock, even such pop genres like Dance do quite well despite having little visibility on sales charts or mainstream media. because they draw music listeners to their music. because their music is enjoyed by music listeners. same as prog. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 00:09
-------------
|
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 00:41
WTF This and the subsequent 'machine gun' postings are borderline bipolar ? -------------
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 01:10
|
Deleted
-------------
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 01:21
Wont reply to this here..Not worth
Iván -------------
|
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 01:30
|
This is why I lurk around the just for fun thread
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 03:39
|
This thread has gone way beyond the realms of prog, and as such sits better in the general music discussions.
There is also a concerning undercurrent developing. Statements such as "There is a term with the same initials as Prog Archives that applies all too frequently to you." constitute another "PA" a personal attack! Other references to the circumstances of a fellow member, or a perception of them, have no place here either.
Please keep the debate friendly and focused on the music aspects.
|