Possible New Sub-Genre?
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Forum Name: Help us improve the site
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62988
Printed Date: February 24 2025 at 08:19
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Topic: Possible New Sub-Genre?
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Subject: Possible New Sub-Genre?
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 16:37
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I've been noticing alot of bands that have been melding modern sounds (by that, I mean prog thats influenced by new popular trends rather then 1970s prog/psychedelic etc...) with more experimental features and adopting a new sound and class of progressive rock. So far, I've seen alot of these bands (the Dear Hunter, Coheed and Cambria, Radiohead, dredg) fall into the Crossover Prog section, which is suitable enough, but this is the same genre that solo Peter Gabriel, The Moody Blues, and Supertramp are in.
I'm not saying that every new potential addition to Crossover should go to this new potential genre (Paul Cusick, for example is a brand new artist, and belongs right in Crossover) but there seems to be quite a difference in sounds.
The genre 'neo prog' was invented to cater to all of the prog bands sharing a new '80s prog' sound... Why should the modern prog artists of the 00's be treated any differently?
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Replies:
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 17:42
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But on the flipside, Dear Hunter, Coheed and Cambria, and Radiohead sound nothing alike.
I believe that Neo-prog fans would be offended by you suggesting that it's nothing more than symph+eighties AOR, and by the same token I don't think alt-prog is a viable genre. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 18:22
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There actually is a movement consisting Radiohead and Muse which combines alternative rock and prog rock called "Nu Prog". I do think it should ultimately be somewhere on PA, but to add a new genre, move bands into that category, and get a genre team is no easy task. -Jeff ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 19:15
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I'm not wholly opposed to that idea existing as a genre, even though I am wholly opposed to the music itself, but I will personally lead a revolution and burn down Max's house if it's called Nu Prog. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 19:40
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Tags like "nu prog" and "post prog" always make me laugh. Anyways. Back to the discussion.
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 21:27
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Neo means new. And the Neo-Prog definition was revised earlier this year so that those artists treading new progressive ground could be included there - it seems both fitting and appropriate. Personally I feel that Chest Rockwell is a good example of those artists with a new take on prog btw - we have a couple of samples with them here. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 23:29
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I know neo means new. That's part of the reason that "nu prog" makes me giggle. That's like naming a subgenre of progressive rock "progression rock" or something. Post prog is just arrogant and missing the point entirely. -------------
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: November 19 2009 at 23:49
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No more sub-genres, okay? This is getting ridiculous. |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 00:07
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Crossover is fine for me, but there does seem to be a strong movement of alternative based prog artists. I personally like the term alt-prog, since nu-prog sounds pretty derogatory IMO.
Of course, we'd have a better fit for TMV and Porcupine Tree than heavy prog for once! (Porcupine Tree is more crossover anyways IMHO). ------------- 
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 01:39
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This can be done with every genre. Sound of 70's is different than 00's.
------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 14:47
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There are already several genres that are more or less exclusively for bands originating from certain time epochs and/or inspired by music from the same time epochs, and even genres that are more or less exclusively for bands originating from certain countries and/or inspired by bands from the same countries, so I really don't understand the arguments against a genre more or less exclusively for bands originating mainly from late 90s/early 00s and/or inspired by music from the same time. There will be a wide variety of musical expressions in such a genre. How would that make it different from the genres already established? |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 14:55
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p0mt3 wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 15:08
But there are clearly tons of "stylistically" traditional Neo bands who, and this comes from a huge Neo fan, do not trad new ground at all.
I think it's always dangerous to group music by outlook, time period, or for want of a better category. The sonic similarities are most important. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 15:11
I did indeed see p0mt3's post, King By-Tor, and found it so little constructive that I was provoked into posting a reply  But thanks for repeating the heavy argument.
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 15:13
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 18:58
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nu-prog would end up being the dumping ground for all "new" bands that we can't fit in easily elsewhere. Neo was a label that came out with those first bands like Marillion et al. New genres or sub genres should be "invented" only in cases where there is a common stylistic description that can be applied to more than a few bands. And yes, Neo has those. It is too easily denigrated because at its' origins, there was a strong Symphonic influence. As a comparison, no one has ever suggested that Prog Metal should be considered less of a valid genre because of the influence or Rush and other heavy proggers from the 70s & 80s. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 19:25
Although I agree with this to a limited extent, I've always thought hatching a separate genre based principally on its artists utilising digital technology completely facile. So why fall through the yawning trap-door a second time ? Is there a school of painters named after the brand of oils they used ? You cannot compare say, RPI to Neo-Prog as the former is demarcated by musical and indigenous elements irrespective of the technology deployed. Somewhat unusually, I agree with Henry Plainview here when he refers (though not in a critical sense) to neo-prog being considered tantamount to Symphonic + AOR. For me Neo-prog has always been Symphonic Division 2, filled with lesser talents who dreamed of entering the rarefied heights of classical 70's prog.(The Champions league, if you will) If it weren't transparent by now, I think Neo-prog a shrill imposter in the court of Prog. (but that's my separate issue) I'm only familiar with one of the bands you cite (Dredg) and they are unequivocally an excellent plain vanilla rock band. (nothing more) The only noughties prog I've heard that melds modern trends on to prog with any credibility, would be someone like the Gourishankar ? There are more than sufficient sub genres on PA to accommodate anything that the nascent artists of the noughties care to throw the way of PA for consideration. Perhaps that by itself, is a damning indictment of the dearth of originality in the current musical climate. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 27 2009 at 20:23
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55434 -
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55434
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53224 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53224
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50275 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50275
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48190 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48190
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60679 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60679
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41923 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41923
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36473 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36473
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45776 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45776
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42062 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42062
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17942 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17942
CZ only:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53476 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53476
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog
------------- What? |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: November 28 2009 at 03:07
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If there's ever a new genre to be added it should be Nu prog.But whether it does or not I don't really mind.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 16:43
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I already posted this in Coz's poll but I figure here's a good spot too:
If magazines and reviewers outside of this site start using the nu-prog label a ton, I think this site will have to incorporate the new genre. They will obviously take artists already in different categories too and the site will have to become more inclusive again, because it seems nu-prog includes artists that aren't included here.
Anyways, I don't entirely support the new genre, but I'm not opposed to it. I really don't like the Nu label either but I suppose that's just its name. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 17:11
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Wait a second... how about.... Art Rock.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 18:54
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Or maybe a new title to encompass a strong commercial sensibility, while giving it that elite artsy flair... What do y'all say to Pop Art?
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 19:09
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Spence, is your Av the dude from Firefly?
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 20:19
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Only if your avatar is the chick from Battlestar Galactica.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 20:32
 Classic. Just watched that episode last night and did a doubletake when he put that hat on....I thought, man that looks like LiquidEternity.------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 22:34
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Wow, I'm flattered. I actually don't look too much like Jayne. Just like, I'm assuming, you look quite different from Starbuck.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 14:37
True, there are a few differences ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |