Yeah, I know. It has also happened that a band has been moved.

 

(Another example is Steve Howe and Asia. Steve Howe is in Crossover Prog and Asia is in Prog Related. Surely they ought to change places!! However, I don't want to start a general debate about bands in the wrong place. I want to talk about the categorization of K2 and possibly get them moved to Symphonic Prog).

 

 

Hi again, I have now published a review for the album. I post parts of it it here as well as it might make it clearer why I think that K2 does not belong in Neo-Prog.

 

Since this group is listed under Neo-Prog, I feel that I must begin this review by issuing a warning (which is more of a blessing for some of us!): K2’s Book Of The Dead sounds nothing like Marillion, IQ, Pallas, Pendragon, Arena, or similar groups. If any similarities with these groups could be detected in K2’s music this would have more to do with similar first hand influences than on any influence on K2 coming from these British bands. Further, within the ranks of K2 we find none other than the great Allan Holdsworth who is clearly a classic, first generation Prog artist. As most people on this site will know, Holdsworth has been in the music business since the early 70’s and has played in many prominent classic progressive rock groups including Tempest and UK. In addition he has released solo albums on a regular basis since the 70's (mainly in the Jazz-Rock field) and as far as I know he never had anything at all to do with the Neo-Progressive movement that started in the early 80’s with some of the bands I mentioned above. While K2 is listed as a US band, they are in fact a multi-national band due to the presence of Holdsworth who is British.

 

The sound of Book Of The Dead is much more in line with <i>classic</i> Symphonic Prog, but even that would not do K2 full justice. This is neither Neo-Prog nor ‘retro-Prog’; this is neither truly vintage nor truly modern. Rather, it has a timeless sound! While all of the people involved here are obviously very talented, Holdsworth steals the show with his totally unique and distinctive guitar sound. No one else could ever sound like him and his presence here gives the music of K2 a ‘cloak of antiquity’; a credibility and classic feeling often lacking in post-70’s progressive rock. Though less theatrical and a bit more laid back, the vocals are strongly Peter Gabriel-like. The bass guitar sound is equally strongly Chris Squire-like and the keyboards remind of bands like Genesis, Camel and Manfred Mann’s Earth Band at their respective best. There is also some exquisite violin on the album often sounding a bit like Kansas. In the overall atmosphere and feeling of the music it sometimes reminds me of the excellent, recently released Proto-Kaw albums. Despite similarities with such classic groups, K2 has managed to find their own sound and I do not find this music derivative in any obvious or distracting way.

 

Has anyone here heard this album? Do you agree with me that it is not Neo-Prog?

 

Thanks

 

I must add to the above that I am fully aware and I fully agree with the guidelines saying that debates about the band's categorization should not be in the reviews but only on the forums. That is why I was careful not to argue that K2 should be moved in the review, but only describe what the music sounds like and point out that this is not what I would describe as Neo-Prog.

 

Do you think I went too far in my review despite my precautions?

 

Yes, of course. I promise that I will re-write my review as soon as that happens. Does that mean that it is probably going to happen?

 

It's a great album by the way so if you have not heard it, I can recommend trying it out.

 

 

Thanks for ubnderstanding

 

Iván

Lately bands have been dropped in neo sometimes because no other team would have them (Agents of Mercy f.i., confirmed by Windhawk). And well, you can criticize them all but in the end, some bands are very hard to pigeon hole and then it will end up debatable if they are correctly placed.

K2 doesn't strike me as an example that should immediately be removed is my final comment.

Also listened my copy of Book of the Dead and even when there are Symphonic elements, the keyboards have that clear  80's sound plus a strong guitar style, so I believe they closer to Neo Prog.

 

The personal connections of a band are less than secondary, as you have seen, except Steve Hackett, no Genesis member is on Symphonic, we base our judgement in the music, not in the musicians.

 

Thanks Ivan for all the info!

 

I am still trying to understand what Neo-Prog is, I think. But I think that it is clearly wrong to say that everything with modern keyboards and a Genesis influence belongs to Neo. If that was the case a lot more bands should be moved to Neo.

 

I see Neo-Prog more as a movement than as a genre. I would like to compare it with Canterbury Scene. A musical movement that is connected to a particular place and a particular time with particular people and a particular sound. In the case of Canterbury Scene, the place is Canterbury (obviously), the time was the late 60's/early 70's and many people in this movement were members of several different bands creating a web of personal connections.

 

With Neo-Prog, the place is Britain, the time was the early 80's and here too many of the same people are involved in many of the movements leading groups. Clive Nolan is involved in many bands and projects (most notably Pendragon and Arena). Arena's drummer being once in Marillion, etc. etc. These bands also sound quite similar and thinking of said bands (+ IQ and Pallas) it is obvious to my ears that they belong together. They all have a very 80's and very British sound. Some of them distinctly Scottish even.

 

Like Atavachron said, K2 sticks out like a sore thumb here.

 

I think that in order for a new band (from a wholly different place) to be considered part of these different musical movements (Canterbury or Neo-Prog), they will have to show strong influences from these movements (as in trying to “walk in the footsteps” of these earlier bands). Just having similar first hand influences is not enough to be part a movement.

 

Also, what I meant by saying that Holdsworth has his musical roots reaching back to the early 70’s was that, since this is true, he can not be considered to be “walking in the footsteps” of those bands who started out in the early 80’s. If anything, the other way around is much more plausible.

 

I still think that I am right about this, but maybe I just don’t understand what Neo-Prog is. If Neo-Prog is all Prog made after 1983 using some newer than vintage keyboards and with a Genesis influence, then K2 is Neo-Prog. But I have been thinking in terms of a more narrow definition according to which they are clearly not.

 

Thanks again for your point of view.

 

(I will not like Book Of The Dead any less if it is called Neo-Prog  )

 

 

If you are so convinced that the early neo should be from the UK then how do you explain the Italian band Mad Puppet made a clear 100% neo album in 1982 called Masque?

Of course it could be that it blew over from the British Islands to the Alpes but that's at least remarkable.  And how about French Step Ahead with their album from 1982 ? Maybe not the most obvious example of neo but still in the right category I feel. Same thing (though a bit later) with Swiss band Deyss which made their debut (At King) in 1985 although if you look at the cover from that album you can detect obvious similarities with Marillion's Script.

A bit later on great neo bands like Clepsydra (also Switzerland) and Collage (Poland) were formed and they played a different sort of neo (especially Collage). In the nineties an interesting typical neoband suddenly appeared in the States called Iluvatar. I don't know if they had direct influences from the UK in the eighties but it's another example neo doesn't have to come from the UK.

The examples I mention are all 100% neo and just as significant for the subgenre as Marillion, Pendragon and IQ even though it's true that these bands are the cradle.

Poland is by the way a huge country where neo is concerned. The foundation for that was formed by Collage but is in the meantime followed by Abraxas, Believe, Albion, Anamor, Quidam, Annalist, Satellite (superb) and Millenium. All excellent bands by the way.

 

Finally a usefull discussion about neo for which I thank both Southsideofthesky and Ivan !

You guys can always knock on my door for these kind of discussions.

Everything points towards Neo Prog,

 

I must admit that I have never heard of these bands.

 

progrules wrote: The examples I mention are all 100% neo and just as significant for the subgenre as Marillion, Pendragon and IQ even though it's true that these bands are the cradle.