Why did most German bands sing in English?
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Topic: Why did most German bands sing in English?
Posted By: listen
Subject: Why did most German bands sing in English?
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 18:55
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I know very little about the story behind why almost all of the German music I've heard (at least 350 albums, mostly krautrock, with some acid folk, symph prog, prog. electronic, psychedelic/space rock, and heavy prog) contains vocals in English. Yet I have heard that the British music press did not give any value or much attention at all to those bands on the German side of the water. Why? Were they really going for the US market? Were they going for other English-speaking international market? It seems to me that singing in English would have estranged them from any potential or existent fan-base. Also, out of curiosity, did and do music from Germany from other genres contain mostly English vocals as well? ------------- Now is all there is. Be before you think! |
Replies:
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 19:09
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I guess because they wanted a chance to enter to the British/USA market, and because i believe most Germans also speak English.
Remember PFM; they signed with manticore Records, but they had to translate several albums.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 19:26
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English sells more [/thread] |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 20:16
Raff tells me that Italy has one of the lowest rates of English proficiency in Europe and from my time there.. I couldn't agree more haha. It was HELL trying to find a pack of smokes there the first time I went... almost comical for them to watch me 'signing'... I NEED CIGARETTES....HELP ME!!!!  That is now.. could only imagine what it was like then. And yes... Italian prog was made for the Italian market... German prog was trying to crack the English speaking market. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 20:27
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When it comes to prog, it's mainly about reaching a wider audience. English is one the singular languages that has come to dominate the world. That's why PFM and Kayak do English lyrics and being an English speaker and only knowing a few words or phrases in other languages, I might not be a fan of either if it weren't for that fact. Of course, in our hemisphere I think Spanish is even more predominant. I don't know whether French or Portuguese runs next. From what I understand there are more than a few varieties of native languages in India that don't work well together and English has become sort of a universal translating language. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 20:58
| It's probobly very hard to make German sound melodic. German is one of the harshest languages. |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 22:23
Even with very little exposure to English audiences?
------------- Now is all there is. Be before you think! |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 22:41
In the case of PFM, manticore isn't an Italian label but Brain and Ohr were German labels. PFM's other label was Italian right? But I would imagine that even german labels would want their (German) bands to sing in english for the market, but from what I've heard German music was virtually unknown in Britain and also the US. On top of that, it is my understanding that most Krautrock and Acid Folk records from Germany were very rare, many not being pressed in huge numbers, reissued to cd until nearly if not more than two decades later, or reissued to cd or on vinyl until those cd reissues. Did the record companies just keep trying even though there was no return, was there enough return (subtracting the estimated sales they lost in Germany because they didn't sing in the native language), or was it for some other reason? The question can also be phrased like this: From what music (mostly prog, ~70's) I've heard Italian bands sang mostly in Italian, Spanish mostly in Spanish, French mostly in French, Swedish mostly in Swedish and so on. But german bands sang mostly in English. Why didn't all the other bands sing in English too? Was Germany just obsessed with the UK audience (even though they were not getting anywhere)? If so, why that the situation? Finally, anyone know what percent of Germans were fluent in English in the early 70's? ------------- Now is all there is. Be before you think! |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: May 26 2009 at 23:47
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There are tons of bands that speak other than in their native language. In fact, I can't think of a single Swedish or Norwegian band other than Enslaved in their early years that sing in their native tongues, off the top of my head of course. ------------- 
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 00:04
| Anglagard? |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 00:05
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I don't know as much about Krautrock as I'd like but: Dave Anderson of Amon Duul was English, I believe. Can had Malcolm Mooney (an African American) and Damo Suzuki (who was Japanese) in their band (not at the same time) Guru Guru had Jim Kennedy (presumably English or Irish) So they weren't all native Germans. Many of the Krautrock bands were also on American labels. Of course, many of the musicians in Krautrock bands were influenced by British and American bands, especially The Beatles and Velvet Underground. Then you have to remember that Italy and Germany are culturally different and making music that is completely different to each other. -------------   
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 00:09
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Well by nmy experience, most of the Peruvian early Prog and Rockbands like Traffic Sound, Laghonia, We All Together, etc, sung in English, only when Frágil came, Spanish became popular.
BTW: There are popular German bands, like Triumvirat and Tangerine Dream, the first one signed with Harvest, the second one became popular when signed with Virgin.
BTW II: There's no exact percentages in the net, but it's mentioned that bilingual German - English education was massive in the FDR since the 60's, plus the people who listened Prog in Germany, was used to listen it in English.
Iván
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 01:45
| The popscene had been dominated by the English and the American. Rockmusic just sounded English I guess. Some barriers had to be broken. |
Posted By: Q6
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:22
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Because there is no word to rhyme with Orange in german ;o)
------------- http://www.paulcusick.co.uk - www.paulcusick.co.uk |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:26
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Because German was the language of Hitler.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:30
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Keine ahnung! (no idea!!!! hahahaha) ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:38
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Like that 99 red balloons song?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:46
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Years ago I asked a German friend this question and his answer was: "Because English is the langage of Rock and Roll, it is the language of Elvis and The Beatles."
------------- What? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 02:57
^But the language of Elvis was American
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 03:05
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I'm sure Tangerine Dream's Phaedra would never have charted in the UK, if the titles on their instrumentals were in German instead of English. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 03:07
for someone usually so elitist and pretentious, you made a good, solid point there 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 03:07
This is totally untrue, as anyone can tell you who's familiar with bands like Novalis or Can - not to mention great composers like Bach, Mozart and Schubert. German can be incredibly tender. A recent post has this: Years ago I asked a German friend this question and his answer was: "Because English is the langage of Rock and Roll, it is the language of Elvis and The Beatles." I think there's much more truth in that. English is THE language of rock music, and it took a while for bands from non-English speaking countries to get confident enough to sing in their own language. Generally speaking, the tendency to "sing in your mother's tongue" only really got going with the "Do it yourself" spirit of punk and new wave. You see the same kind of thing in Dutch. The big international bands from the Seventies (like Focus or Golden Earring) sang in English, Latin or even gibberish! In the late 1970s/early 1980s there was an avalanche of home-made rock artists (Raymond van het Groenewoud, Doe Maar etc. etc.) who produced one lively album after another... in Dutch. This was the start of a whole new thing. Of course they didn't sell outside Holland and Belgium! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 03:14
...and most bands (even British ones) sing with an American accent. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 03:17
The smarter you get, the more I make sense. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 08:36
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I agree with several comments on this thread. I believe it was a commercial thing with a lot of European bands wanting to make it in England and from there shooting for the U.S. market. Let's face it, playing in a band was fun but it was also a job. If you didn't "make it", you had to go back to what ever you did before you became a musician.
As far as singing with an American accent, I can certainly recall the British Invasion when you would hear songs on the radio and then hear an interview and the singer had a very strong accent (Roger Daltry comes to mind). This was also true with American bands. Singers from the deep south or New England wouldn't have an accent on record but in a spoken interview it was a whole different story.
Having said all of that, I prefer little or NO vocals (Hurdy Gurdy, Automatic Fine Tuning, Bonfire, Gomorrha, Soft Machine, Flying Island, etc).
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Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 08:50
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I've noticed this before. Indeed, it's not just Germany. Take a look at Greek rock.
Good example is Vangelis's "Aphrodite's Child," which was a Greek band, which moved to France, sang in English and actually became a hit there and throughout a lot of non-English speaking Europe. Of course, as far as I know, they never did incredibly well in the US (commercially of course).
The way language in rock works is quite odd. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad: 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:18
I don't have a clue, why? It's weird but you're right. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 09:50
| Not so weird, though. In the 18th century, Italian was THE language of Western music. Handel wrote Italian operas for Covent Garden in London; Haydn and Mozart wrote Italian operas for theatres in places like Prague or Vienna. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:03
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Hi,
In the Latin block of languages, usually French or Spanish are the secondary languages. At least they were in the 60's and 70's ... but English may be it now.
In general, and I don't think it is intentional, the music business and recording business, is not stupid and they know that the majority of sales for anything are in the 2 english speaking countries ... where "arts and music" are still important, and always have been ... or at least they have had more freedom in the past 60 years than any of the others ... when you compare this to Germany, for example ... specially when it was split ...
How soon we forget that this just happened recently!
In the 50's and 60's Europe was being invaded by the "Voice of America" "Radio Free Europe" and many other short wave radio stations that blasted the communicst bloc left and right and started to get results towards the late 60's and eventually, these stations closed down when they were no longer needed after Berlin in the 80's ... these were all done in English ... and that tells you that a lot of people around Europe heard Elvis, Beatles and many others in English, and it would seem natural that any band coming up would think ... wouldn't it be cool to be there also ... and sing in English ...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:06
We all know TD is instrumental, but with them was a change of label from the German OHR to the British Virgin Records.
BTW: Only mentioned them to make my point that not all the German bands were unpopular, but it's obvious that the change when they changed label was clear, they even reach the album charts.
Seems that the problem is not exclusively because of the language, but also how more easily they reach the UK or USA market as soon as they sign with a local label.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:36
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I think it's due to Beethoven. I mean the guy titled his symphonies in English - like, the Fifth, the Sixth , also known as the Pastoral . SO they probably figured of Ludevig did it , why not them. That, or because Mandarin is pretty hard to learn, even if it means a better chance of reaching 1 billion chinese. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Alberto Muńoz
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:59
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Posted By: Alberto Muńoz
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:05
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monks - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monks ------------- |
Posted By: Alberto Muńoz
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:17
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Mybe we should propose The Monks to proto prog ------------- |
Posted By: AlbertMond
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:46
Whoah. I hadn't even heard of these guys before. I second. ------------- Promotion so blatant that it's sad:
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:52
Exactly, and it's more to do with availability and distribution than any prejudice against non-local record labels (for example Deutsche Grammophon was a highly respected label). Most German labels simply weren't distributed in the UK in the 1970s and those that were were not promoted or publicised. I tried to get hold of a copy of Alpha Centauri back then and it was impossible. When TD signed to Virgin the publicity machine kicked in and, thanks to full-page adverts in the major music papers, everyone knew who they were. I remember one ad. featured giant cartoon caricatures of Froese, Franke and Baumann smashing through a wall (in the style of R. Crumb, but I think the cartoonist may have been Paul Sample).
Of course bands like Amon Duul II and Can were already known in the UK by then because they were signed to United Artists/Liberty (distributed in the UK by EMI), who already had established UK artists on their rosta (Hawkwind, Groundhogs, Bonzo's, etc.) ------------- What? |
Posted By: 70sMysterySong
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 12:00
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During a vacation to Munich in 2000 I scouted record stores for German music. Of significance to this thread is that their local retail music chain (Wormland) stocked almost no German artists! The store was quite large (on the order of a Borders Books & Music in the states) but I was disappointed to see the same selection of CDs there as here. The best I could do was to find a few Die Toten Hosen discs (hardly prog!) Even the first pub I went into was playing classic rock overhead. So there was certainly a market for songs sung in English among the Bavarians toward the beginning of the century. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 12:32
^ Sadly, my experience was pretty similar - I was in Munich in 1984 for three weeks and I came home with only one album, Spliff ~ Schwarz auf Weiss, (and they sing in German  ). ------------- What? |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 13:42
I wonder what Suppers Ready would sound like in Mandarin The reason for English lyrics is obviously commercial. Even at the simplest Eurovision Song Contest level, most of the lyrics (such as they are) are in English, except the French who are too proud of the mother tongue to acquiese. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 14:12
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 15:38
Those damn French. I went to Paris for a week in a group with only 1 fluent French speaker. I was only 15 at the time, and I haven't even though of learning French. It was only with a huge sigh that any of them would speak English to me, and they were complete jerks to the adults in the group.
Unlike in Mexico, where I would struggle to utter a sentence in Spanish and immediately they'd change to English to accomodate me. -------------
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 15:54
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^
I cannot agree more about the French. This is mainly due to their colonialist past, they still think they can speak french in each part of the world and therefore don't make any effort to learn english. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:18
That's stupid !
 It was/is also the language of Goethe, Fassbinder and W Herzog.You can also say that :
- russian was the language of Staline
- french was the language of Napoléon (a little "Hitler")
- italian was the language of Mussolini
- cambodian was the language of Pol Pot
- spanish was the language of Ernesto "Che" Gueverra (executed or asked to execute > 100 army and police officers)
Each nation had troubled moments in its history, that doesn't mean that people should be ashamed of their native language... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:24
I only used Tangerine Dream to prove my own point, not to comment on yours. I didn't notice that you had mentioned them already. I didn't underline instrumental because I thought you or anyone else didn't know they made instrumentals. But to make clear that I don't think they would chart in UK with germansounding track titles. Even if all their music is instrumental. I think so because the britishspeaking audience is generally a lot more ignorant/sceptical to anything foreignsounding than us from the rest of the world (with all our strange, foreign languages). ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:46
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^ There you go with that word "ignorant" again and your lazy stereotyping of a whole nation. While it is conceivable that your average lager-swilling football hooligan Neanderthal Brit who spends their summer vacation eating Egg and Chips on the Costa Del Sol would be off-put by a foreign track title, anyone who was even mildly interested in Electronic music in the early 1970s would most certainly not.
The track titles on Tangerine Dream albums are immaterial since no one looks at them when buying the album, thinking "Oh 'Mysterious Semblance at the Strand of Nightmares' that sounds like a good sing-a-long toe-tapper, I must buy this." and neither Phaedra nor Rubicon are English words. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:49
| Don't make me ride the Valkyries up anyone's butt. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:55
Bull. I just generalized (and wrote that I did), and have a valid point. Even if not, you or your openminded friends are the one I'm thinking about. I often notice some outrageous center of the world beliefs coming from members of UK and US here at PA (even more outside) that would never have come from anyone living in the rest of the world. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 17:09
I don't actually disagree with you - when your home country is essentially selfsufficent then there is little need to be outward-looking. In most music genres (outside Classical/Orchestral and Techno-Dance Music) most music bought in the UK was either home-grown or American. However, that does not make the people ignorant.
In Prog there was no need to go looking for music offshore when there were more than enough home-grown bands, yet still we did, even as early as 1970 when music from Germany, France, Italy and The Netherlands started to be heard on the radio - but we could only buy what was available in the record shops. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 19:38
Well of course UK and US prog is superior to everything else in the world and I welcome your attempts to educate us ignoramuses, but you do realize it's futile. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 03:22
While you think using terms like ignorant and sceptical are lazy generalizations (which I wrote that it was) about your fellow countrymen, I think your attitude towards music (not just prog) made in the rest of the world is lazy. I'm not saying everyone elsewhere is so fantastically openminded, and of course as a norwegian sharing a language with only 4 million people one's got to be outwardlooking. We're used to importing popularculture, while in UK, an album or single in any other language than british has hardly ever charted (except some novelty hits). When people here write that they can't appreciate vocals in any other language than their own, I've never seen it written by people from anywhere else than UK or US. Same thing when some americans take it for granted that Boston, Styx and Billy Joel, Heart etc.. were played to death on radio in the 70's all over the world, just because its their personal experience. Things like that. I can't think of it as anything but ignorant. I'm sorry but if I'm not allowed to generalize, its hard to point out any kind of observation.
Well, I can start with saying that UK must be one of the least interesting places for prog nowadays, and that US weren't among the 20 most interesting countries progwise in the 70's. (but I wasn't just writing about prog, or music in my first comments) ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 08:23
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Hey guys, I've just came again here on prog forum after I passed my high school final exams (so I have a lot of time and ideas) and came here also for calm discussion.
This hot-headed talking will not get any of us anywhere, don't you think? If I should talk for myself, I don't like german language, so I'm glad that lot of them sing in english language. I actually am not able to listen something in german language. Don't take me bad, this nation has long history of culture significance, remember classical music, lot of book writers and also painters. But this language, it's just too hard to me, too strong and unfamiliar. This is why I prefer english ones. But in my country (by the was, neighbour of Germany), lot of our bands (not only prog rock) sings in english language too. Probably from same reason, they want to get attention. To be different. But comparing our two countries is ... well, it's like David and Goliath. But please people, keep your voices down, we're here in sacred prog library <smile> ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 08:44
This is relatively inaccurate.
True most Germans (especially the ypounger ones) had to learn English or French because of the cold war troops stationed throughout Western Germany.
And since the soldiers were out to spend money and drinking in clubs, the idea was to give R'nR in English, by importing bands (Beatles in Hamburg , Manfred mann etc....) , but the young Germans also saw a way to get in to rock (and out of the ruins) by forming groups and singing in either English and/or German , depending on the crowds they had.
So they switched to English to first conquer the 400,000 troups staying in Germany. US (or UK for that matter) was not even on their minds yet. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 08:49
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Don't forget there were 2 countries - West and East Germany (DDR). And most of bands from DDR (Puhdys, Karat, Lift, Stern Combo Meissen, City, Electra etc) sung in German. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 09:30
English is the international language of aviation. That`s why Amon Duul II started to sing in English because they were flying so high on wacked out drugs.
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Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 09:43
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As I stated earlier, all of my prog LPs are from the 70s because they were purchased when I worked at the record store. Even though I have many LPs by Genesis, Gentle Giant, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, etc. I mainly concentrated on LPs that were not released in the U.S.
The country that I have the most LPs from is Italy with Germany being the second most. Italian, like Spanish, is a more flowing, melodic language and seems to be easier to listen to. Most of my favorite German bands sing in English (Satin Whale, Jane, Birth Control, etc.)
I also managed to pick up several LPs from eastern Euro countries like Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia. Most of, if not all of these LPs have vocals in their native language. If some people find German lyrics difficult to listen to, they should look into some bands from these countries and then they may be a little more receptive to German lyrics.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 10:26
I believe we are talking about two moments in history.
Most surely with 400,000 troops in their country and even Elvis on Germany doing his MS, the early German rockers went for English, because they had a captive audience.
But in Prog's heyday I guess is more a ccommercial issue, remember, troops hardly listen Prog, and without a good British label and singing in German, it was a bit harder to reach the UK/USA market, where the posiblility of making a real career was.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 10:49
 ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:06
no need to generalize just because they're soldiers. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:06
were valkyries female, per chance ? if so, how did the auto censor miss that one ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:11
Please Claude not hgeneralizing, here in prog Archives we have ex soldiers, marines, etc, but it's not the general rule, troops are recruited from the general population and general population doesn't listen Prog, as a majority.
Please don't try to imply a discrimination that doesn't exist, this is the last place where I expected people asking to talk in politically correct terms.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:12
Actually, in pop psychology terms, the diagnosis is more that they refuse to believe that their present position in the world does not match up to a long ago glorious past. De Gaulle could not tolerate the idea that France was liberated by Canadians , Americans, and GASP , englishmen. The brits went through the same thing in between the wars. They just got bitch slapped into reality with WWII and were smart enough to give independance to most of the still existing colonies that wanted it. The French on the other hand, fought tooth & nail for every last one. Including the ones they gave up as undefendable in WWII. And as a francophone Acadian descendants of long ago immigrants from France, this tendency exists mainly as a form of inferiority complex cover-up. The Quebecois have much to be proud of, but insists on repeating past offenses against them. The French also have much to be proud of, but cannot stand the idea that culture and refinement , in any form, exists on an equal and often superior basis elsewhere, including the U.S. ( I write as I fart loudly) ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:19
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I do not agree that the French gave independence to their colonies. The Viet Minh kicked their butts out of Indochina. This is the first and last political statement that I will make on this forum. |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:23
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Back to music. I have very little French prog but a 70s band that comes to mind is Transit Express. I have two of their LPs and like them both. Also, I believe Sloche is French-Canadian if that counts. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:23
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Gary, I believe you didn't get Claude's statement.
He says British gave up their colonies while French fought for them with nails and teeth.
But lets return to the topic.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:25
| You're right, I did misread the statement. |
Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:30
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Though it's a bit off the topic, people interested in listening German music with German lyrics should have a look at the "Liedermacher" movement (Reinhard Mey, Klaus Hoffmann Hans Dieter Hüsch, Konstantin Wecker, to name a few) or folk rock/medieval rock groups (In Extremo, Schandmaul, Schelmisch, Corvus Corax, Subway to Sally) as well as some "Deutschrock/pop" (Stoppok, Udo Lindenberg, Silbermond). If one can bear pure but amusing stupidity, there is die Ärzte for you.* To sum it up from the point of a German: One reason was the internetional orientation of some groups, other was that English was considered to be the language of the free in times of division. Those who wrote German lyrics mostly described and criticised political or social topics of their country. These days, it is mostly trivial with political lyrics being left to the underground scene. * 'cause, there is always a Rammstein. And Kraftwerk. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:44
Doing otherwise (except maybe in Russian) in Ossie Germany would drive you direct to the goulag
 , courtesy of the stasi
Ivŕn,
Back in the 60's , this was not a professional army by volunteers; this was mainly draft enroled and military duty, so the kids in the army were coming from all classes of society (which is one of the only good thing about military duty >> a little social mixity), only a few lucky being able to dodge the drafts. Most dads in higher classes were happy to see their kids get a little tougher in life and did nothing tfor their son to avoid rough soldier lives.
Actually a lot of smarter kids opted to their military services in Germany (the miserable pay was less miserable) because of a shorter service (15 months instead of 2 years in France and 10 moths instead of 15 in Belgium, for example)
the troops in Vietnam listened to plenty of proto prog >> you know those long-haired hippies that generally supposed to be hated by the soldiers (at least their hierarchy,because of their irreverence and anarchy ideals) , but most kids stuck in the army (against their will) admired the hippies' freedom........
no, my friend; the soldiers listened to rock, beit pop, garage, psych, prog .... whayever was dished out at them and they liked it. The louder the better, since they could evade the cold war for a few hours.....
Anyway, I think we can drop the prog specificity when speaking about mainstream rin the early 70's beit radio or availability in record store , since prog was almost the mainstream
Groups like Frumpy were opening for Uriah Heep in Hamburg in 74, with a good half of the crod being US or UK soldiers or their dorect family. Their (Frumpy's) chances of playing the US was hardly nil back then..... So, they worried about selling their music in Germany to whomever would buy them. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:54
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Still I believe it was acommercial issue Sean,
As you say the troops were recruited from the general population, if we takee kids from all economic and cultural status, the minority will go to see a Triumvirat or Amon Dull concert, than Uriah Heep, which was mainly a Hard Rock band for them.
BTW: The troops in Nam were not the troops in Germany, Nam soldiers were allowed to do things, dress and act in a totally different way than the ones representing USA in an ally country.
Guess we should agree to dissagree as usual.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:56
Hardly too far (I mean Goulag), but doing otherwise they definitely could have problems. So courtesy of Stasi we have quite special rock movement .By the way, some bands from East Germany had albums in English. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:04
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I think the answer to this ultimately lie in the answer to the question as to why so many English artist seem to sing in American.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:07
Interesting post.
It's true that the British did not fight over India much since amazingly enough there were so few Briish subject controlling sooooooo many Indians..... they got out VERY quickly (if memory serves in 47 or 48) , knowing it would e a massacre if they didn't. >>> letting loose Newfoundland in 49, right??
 They didn't leave quietly everywhere, and hunkg out to empire bits until the mid-60's for big colonies and sometimes as late as the late 70's for islands..... The French did not face the same urgency and started running into trouble in Vietnam (from China's communist support) in 54 and got defeated in 62 , from which time the US took over with nthe same results...... In the meantime (in 56 to be exact) their main worries was Algeria,which they considered as almost metropolitan France and let loose in 62, but in the meantime both Tunisia and Morrocco had become independant without much a problem.
France sort of abandonned Vietnam to concentrate on another losing cause called Algeria.
By 65 most of Freench Africa was independant without any violence (which was not the case in Kenia or Rhodesia >> today's Zimbabwe)
On the whole I would say that the British lost their bigger colonies quicker than the French, but still clung on to place like Gibraltar illegally, the country faring worst in this derptament being Portugal that kept all its bigger colonies until the early 70's (Mozambique, Angola etc....)
But I hold you on your last statement, France is able to recognize other people's cultures at being as brillliant as theirs (except for food and luxury) >>> they holdin hign admiration England, Italt and a few more..... They do have a little difficulty with the US , though. But they are no more chauvinists than Italians, Americans of English ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:14
Iguess what you sing was also an issue
 Plastic People Of The Universe spent years in jail and they sang in Czeck ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:19
OK with this.....
But I think tha ADII will not draw the same public than Triumvirate, one of the only German band with the Scorpions) that did break the US open (much to Triumvirate's surprise too).
ADII was undefined rock crowds, where Triumvirate had a more select public (different eras too >>> ADII's best moments had passed when Trioůvirate started to happen)
Must run home now ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:26
I assume by "your" you mean the whole country and not just me personally
Anyway, I think you are being a little unfair - how many German artists chart in France, or Spanish artists in Sweden? I do not believe it is nationalism, or xenophobia, or "ignorance" that causes the British (and American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand) charts to be devoid of foreign language songs, nor is it a sign of being close-minded. When something like 14% of the people living in the UK have English as a second language then statistically there should be more non-English titles in the charts, the reality has little to do any ignorance on the part of the buying public, in the UK or anywhere else, but is a reflection on current world-wide music trends.
When (a very very small minority of) people here write that they can't appreciate vocals in any other language than their own everyone else (generally) points out the error of their ways and tries to encourage them to at least listen and learn to appreciate. Look at those threads (and not just the latest one) - not many people are agreeing with with the opening comments.
I prefer L'isola di niente sung in Italian but I am happy with Felona e Sorona sung in Italian or English - that's just my personal preference and little to do with prejudice or inability to speak (or understand) Italian.
As to the American view of the world - I can't comment on that since I was with you in that Boston/Styx/Joel/Heart thread and expressed the same level of disbelief. However since I am fully aware of the insult implied by using the word "ignorant" I would not call them ignorant, wrong yes, ignorant no.
You can generalise all you like, but I wouldn't. ------------- What? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:43
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A lot of artists of early Krautrock used German as well as English,
examples being Guru Guru, Amon Düül 2 or Kraan. Tracks like "Sarah's
Ritt durch den Schwarzwald" by Kraan, "Henriette Krötenschwanz" or
"Kronwinkl 23" by Amon Düül 2 and "Tango Fango" by Guru Guru may serve as
examples. The first one to only use German as a language in German rock music was singer Udo Lindenberg (of whom hardly anyone knows that he used to be a good drummer and even played with Passport on their first album). -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Alberto Muńoz
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 12:48
And BTW have a great album:
 ------------- |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 13:01
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I was in Viet Nam for 14 mos (most of 1970 and part of 71). Because most of the guys were in their late teens or early twenties rock and roll was the dominant form of music. There was only one military radio station and they played a lot of top 40 songs. If you've seen the Robin Williams movie "Good Morning Viet Nam" that's the radio station I'm referring to.
I was at a smaller base in a more remote area but we would occasionally get a floor show with a rock band and two or three go-go dancers. They were usually from Bangkok but one time we had an Australian band with white, round-eyed dancers. The bands always played whatever was popular back in the states (you haven't heard anything like In A Gadda De Vida sung with a Thai accent).
And of course, as a general rule they ended the shows with their version of "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" by the Animals.
Ahhh...the good old days are gone forever.
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Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 13:07
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I have a couple of LPs by Guru Guru. I really like Dance Of The Flames but haven't listened to Tango Fango enough yet to have an opinion. I have also set aside three albums by Epsilon that I need to listen to more closely. |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 13:14
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Here are a few more German bands that I have set aside for closer listens: Eloy, Kraan, Grobschnitt, Karthago, Kin Ping Meh and Message. I believe most of them sing in English but if I come across some in German, I will post them.
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 13:23
Not always too dramatic. By the way, best lyricists like Burkhard Lasch and Wolfgang Tilgner collaborated with many East German bands. So what you sing is an issue, and many of those songs of the 70s became classics.  Here is an example of a good (and proggy) song by KARAT called "Albatros": Words "Albatros does not know frontiers" sounded in 1979 almost provocative, but the album has been released both in East and West Germany. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying communists at all. I only tell not everything was as bad as it sometimes seems. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 13:52
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It`s from an album called Uber sieben Brucken ( Over 7 Bridges ) Wow! I thought I was the only one on the planet who had that album. I think it was also released in West Germany at the time but I`ve got an East German pressing. Got it at some yard sale somewhere for 50 cents or something like that. They`re still going I believe. Wonder why they`re not on PA??? Some cool stuff here.
------------- |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 14:09
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I thought too that I'm the only one here who knows KARAT. Though I paid for my copy of "Uber sieben Brucken" (Karat II) a little more - about 10 euro. West German edition was entitled "Albatros" and contained beautiful ballad "Konig der Welt" from the band's first album instead of the song "He, Mama". First four KARAT albums contained both prog songs and straightforward rock and blues. In the 80's they, like many others, changed their sound according to foolish fashion of the time. None of their albums is pure prog. If they deserve to be included on PA, I think only as prog-related. By the way, the band is listed in GEPR. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 01:29
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Even nowadays a couple of bands do it,
Like "Tokio Hotel"... Don't bother listening ton them, terrible, poppy, boring rock. But They record all of their songs in both German and English. -------------
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 01:54
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Not bothering to read a couple of the previous pages but.... You have Rammstein, which is a good deal of fun. -------------
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 11:21
Grobschnitt's album "Jumbo" was released in a German and in an English version. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: GaryB
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 14:18
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That's an interesting fact about Jumbo. I checked my LP and have the English version. I only have their first three LPs. I like all of them but I think their first might be my favorite. I have quite a bit of 70s German music in my collection with Grobschnitt and Satin Whale being two of the bands I started with.
BTW, I get together twice a week with my long time friend (jr hi school) and fellow collector to listen to albums. Last night he played a German band called To Be. The LP was untitled and released in 1976. I am basically a prog-rock/prog-jazz fan and this LP just blew me away. It was German prog with a Latin beat and I rated the musicianship right up their with the likes of Return To Forever
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Posted By: DaleHauskins
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 14:37
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Greets from southern California, My old Swiss progressive rock band Flame Dream,singer Peter Wolf wrote lyrics and sang always in english due because our label Vertigo,Phonogram and the band wanted to make our music much much more international. Even whilst tracking,recording working at Patrick Moraz's Aquarius Studios in Geneva,Switzerland;and his amazing engineer Jean Ristori,(where most European prog rock bands recorded at);spoke and wrote in mostly english. http://www.rire-sous-cape.ch/counting-out-time/flame-dream/flame-dream-index.htm - http://www.rire-sous-cape.ch/counting-out-time/flame-dream/flame-dream-index.htm ------------- Ｄａｌｅ Ｈａｕｓｋｉｎｓ (858) 401-2973 (310) 293-0432 https://artistecard.com/Dalehauskins |
Posted By: why-do-i-bother
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 19:27
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Once again the English language is being confused with England the country. Any music that charted in the UK was not just England, however the English decided that record/cd's recorded in Scotland, Wales and Norhern Ireland would be based on sales per country rather on a UK as a whole sales. This in fact stopped Runrig entering the top 5 in the 80/90's. A level playing field it is not....still biased towards English acts.
The Germans sung in English because....it pissed of the English who couldn't sing in German.
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 16:26
I knew that! And I love some of his albums from the 1970s, especially PANISCHE NAECHTE, which is darker than you'd expect from him. By the way, there are lots of British (and American) artists who sing in excellent German, e.g. Ian Bostridge, James Gilchrist, Simon Keenlyside, Thomas Hampson and Mark Padmore. But they've all had classical training. 
Also, in past decades certain French-language, German-language and Italian-language performers did very well in the charts in the Dutch-speaking parts of the world. (I can hear some of you Yanks going: "Dutch? Ain't that the same as German?  )
For example: Umberto Tozzi, Eros Ramazotti, Serge Gainsbourg, Les Poppies (!) and that idiot who crooned "Du bist ALLES was ich habe auf der Welt! Du bist alles was ich bin, YE-E-AH!" |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 17:54
Seems to be a play on the word "puppies" ?
Is that a french band ?
Yes, indeed very clever lyrics : "you are all I have in the world . You are all I am..."
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 10:08
| Actually, I think they spelled their name "Les Poppys". They were a wildly popular French boys choir from the early seventies, who had hits with pop songs like "Non, non, rien n'a change" (sorry, I don't have the accent handy) and "Isabelle je t'aime". You can probably find them on YouTube! |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 10:43
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^ I didn't know France produced this kind of s**t...The lyrics are really laughable cf the ones for "il faut une fleur pour faire le monde" : "to build a house you need wood, and to find this wood you need a tree, to grow this tree one had to sow a seed a seed living and beautiful, to get the seed a flower had to grow, a flower so sweet, we needed a flower to make the world..."------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 12:00
if you have not heard Ange do this song ... it's a treat. And it shows, that Decamps is one of the finest actor singers out there ever ... sorry Peter ... and Fish and whoever else!
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 12:06
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Hi,
I found the reason ... I found it!
You have to do some math ...
How many German speaking peoples there are ...
... and then ...
(here comes the kicker ...)
How many English speaking people there are in both the Great Brittain areas and American areas ...
Added these up ....
Now check out where you think you might have a chance at making a few dollars or pounds ...
And then decide if you are more interested in something else ...
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 12:10
Yes, Jacques Brel had very interesting lyrics, to say the least. He was Belgian and not French. I don't care much for Ange. England gave us much better bands.
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 12:44
You obviously haven't watched too many Eurovision song contests! I vividly remember someone called Anne-Marie David winning, with "On a tous un banc, un arbre, une rue...", also in the early seventies. (Lovely melody, we were charrrmed!) She may have been Swiss, actually. But there was always Vicky Leandros as well. In fact, as a prog-loving Belgian I'm quite proud that, back in the eighties, a Belgian band (Telex) made fun of the whole caboodle with a little number ("Moscow Disco") in pure Kraftwerk style! |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 14:47
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P.S. I made a mistake. "Moscow Discow" was one of Telex' earlier singles. For the Eurovision contest they wrote a special number, to which they gave the exciting title "Eurovision":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6USa0zUMmqI They had the distinction of finishing last! ("La Belgique, nul points!") Clearly hoi polloi were not ready for this. Out-of-this-world! By the way, Les Poppys were not as silly as you might think. The opening number on their first album ("Des chansons pop") opened with a daring guitar solo in Jimi Hendrix vein, it finished with a French-language cover of "Let the Sunshine in" (which I, as an eleven year old, found incredibly exciting) and in between there even was a kind of... well... a "tribute" to Jimi (who'd only just died): Pour Jimi Hendrix qui ne voulait pas voir Pour les Blancs, les Rouges, les Jaunes ou bien les Noirs Pour l'Ouest ou le Sud, ou l'Est ou bien le Nord Pour tous les vivants qui distribuent la mort Je demande une tręve pour que se passe en paix Cette conférence au sommet ("Noel '70") Ah, innocent days!
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 01 2009 at 15:11
Forgive me for butting in again, but who's Morningwood and why does your signature say "censored"? As far as I can tell, the picture was taken in the garden of Stowe, Buckinghamshire, England - any special reason? |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 04:22
Latest news: at the time of writing, one Peter Fox (from Berlin) has a huge hit in the (Dutch-speaking) Low Countries with something called "Haus am See", sung in German. It's a true "summer hit", in spite of the fact the German language is not usually perceived as "cool".
On the other hand, there are lots of U.K. bands who never make it in the U.S. but who manage to survive by touring the U.K. alone, with occasional forays into selected European countries. Similarly, many Italian acts thrive by touring Italy alone. Now Germany has a much bigger population than either Italy or the U.K. so - you see what I mean! |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 05:52
WHAT? TRAITOR!!!!  |