I'm prolly the only one here but....Genesis?
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Topic: I'm prolly the only one here but....Genesis?
Posted By: TripBalls
Subject: I'm prolly the only one here but....Genesis?
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:44
| I really don't like Genesis, I don't know what it is maybe the fact that I haven't explored their music enough and only heard the sh*t on the radio. I've listened to all the listed genres in the archives, mostly RIO, Cantebury, Krautrock, Space, and some of the easier to listen to bands (Porcupine Tree, Tool, Rush, etc). Theres something about Genesis that just boils my blood when it comes on (I wouldn't be too worried but my work plays a station that plays them a lot). As a prog fan, is there something wrong w/ me, because Genesis seems to be the under the fav's of everyone here. I've tried giving some of Peter Gabriel's music a chance but it didn't exactly click. I also really enjoy Brand X, though I can't imagine there being ne similarities in sound. So, either tell me theres nothing wrong me and I just have a different taste in music (or flame me for seeking validation that a band sux, w/e) or tell me I'm wrong while also giving me a reason and maybe suggesting an album that could possibly turn me on to them. Another question, and just being curious, what makes them so great??? |
Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:47
Burrrppp. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:49
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You ain't the only one, and as for the last question, I don't know. Lord knows I've tried.
However, Ivan could tell you why. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:02
| So you're saying they annoy you when they come on the radio... well they only play Collins era on the radio, have you even heard the Gabriel stuff like Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound etc.? It seems unlikely that you haven't but it's just that you talk about being annoyed when hearing them on the radio. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:07
| yeah the radio, no wonder, the last prog thing by Genesis I heard on the radio was 'Back in NYC' in the early 80s when some prog was still acceptable.. I'd say start with Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and then either backwards in their catalog or forward if you prefer a more polished sound |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:13
| You're not the only one. Believe me. I personally don't like them to a high degree. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:13
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I used to not like Genesis, I couldn't see what all the fuss was about either. One night I decided to sit in the car at my brother's football game and I listened to Selling England by the Pound again. About half way through The Battle of Epping Forest it just started "making sense". Trespass is a good album to get into, Gabriel's vocals are great, the music is beautiful, and it ends with The Knife, which is much harder rock in comparison to the rest of the album. When I am trying out a new band or (especially) if I am trying to get into one I find the best thing to do is to wait until I can listen to them completely undistracted, without expecting anything to come of the music. The main thing is that if you listen to them with a clean slate, instead of the expectation that they WILL be the best prog band ever, or expecting them to not be any good, then it helps you to notice positive things about the music. I'm not saying you absolutely HAVE to like Genesis, but at least don't give up on them yet.  |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:27
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You're not alone- I like a lot of older prog, but I don''t really enjoy Genesis- I like SEBTP- but I thought Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme were boring and uneventful.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 22:56
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Ivan is going to come down hard on everyone in this thread that be dissin' 'em.
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 23:11
| Oh well. I only like SEBTP. But I like it a hell of a lot. |
Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 01:59
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Well, for me, genesis in their classic albums era (nursery through wind & wuthering) while lacking the flashy playing of some of their contemporaries (yes or ELP for example) had incredible HARMONIC richness and complexity. Therein lies their magic and "progressivness". Some of the chord progressions and the modulations Banks uses (though i'm sure the others contributed just as well) are insane! So I would encourage you to pay attention to them again, focusing on that aspect of their music and maybe you will appreciate them a LOT more.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:01
There's your problem! |
TripBalls wrote:Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:02
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^yeah man you gotta listen to tried and true pre 1989 artists its the only way
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:04
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I can't get enough of those pre-89 heroes! Are we corrupt? |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:08
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:08
Definitely not corrupt. Genesis came out with SEBTP before 1989, hence it's good music. -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:17
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Your list me makes visibly cringe. I trust you'll engage with pre-89 music soon. Quality artists like Genesis might just do the trick for a lost soul like you
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Posted By: oddentity
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 02:19
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They were a great bad, very original, but they were very removed from the blues side of rock - far more removed than, say, Yes or Pink Floyd. I can understand how that would annoy certain kinds of people. All I can say is keep listening to them with an open mind and maybe one day they will click with you. They were certainly one of a kind, a band that produced many delightful, fascinating compositions in their prime.
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 03:15
 I bung all my 1970s stuff on to eight track and play it in my Ford Cortina/Taunus/whatever it's called.
Genesis? Up to and including The Lamb is the stuff IMO. SEBTP ain't got a top rating for nothing - and Foxtrot's nearly as goodIMO.
Just what we need... another Genesis thread  ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 09:40
| Selling England by the Pound is a Masterpiece of Prog music. albums till The lamb lies down on broadway are excellent, a trick of the tail and wind and wuthering are still good, after that, stuf they made in the 80' and 90' is unexeptable for me |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 09:42
| I'm not a huge fan, love Selling England though. The group of Genesis detractors or even non-uberfans on this site is definitely a minority one. |
Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:21
Have you written off Yes as well after only hearing "Owner of a Lonely Heart" on the radio? |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:24
| I don't really like Genesis either. The production some of the stuff I've heard (SEBTP,Foxtrot) is amatuerish and horrible; it completely ruin the experience. It doesn't matter how good you are if the end result sounds like it's being played thru some cans and string. |
Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:37
i don't know how do you came up with this bold claim , i would like to know who is your symphonic prog favourite bands ?
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:47
My thoughts exactly - you beat me to it. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:50
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Also, they only play the singles on the radio, excepting stations such as Planet Rock. Some of these I really enjoy, others I don't, but you will not hear classics such as Dukes Travels/End, the full length Abacab version, Home by the Sea...I could go on....and on, but the point is that you simply haven't heard them in the round. I also agree with the point re Owner of a Lonely Heart, which I love, but is singularly unrepresentative of the bulk of Yes music. Keep an open mind and try it, bith eras. I think you will enjoy, and one of the reasons I love this site so much is that it has opened me to a huge amount of music which previously I wasn't touching. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 13:57
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Personally, I may even top Ivan in regards to liking the entire Genesis catalogue... Yes, I actually LIKE Invisible Touch... and all the others... Of course, not like the first albums with Gabriel but I like them all. And they deserve their status. Listen to Fifth of Firth or Supper's ready or Can-utility and the Coastliners...
Their lesser albums are, in my view, ABACAB (though entertaining), Calling All Stations (no Collins really hurts) and The first one, From Genesis to Revelations (it actually sucks...) ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 14:52
I can't believe no one got my joke at the start of this thread.  You're prolly my beshtus friend, burrrppp. I love ya man. Brrrlllggghh. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:17
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Didn't liked them at first either, way too keyboard-driven, and lack of 'rock', though those were my first feelings.. Then listened to Mirage by Camel, and after that Trespass by Genesis and not sure how, but it all flowed fluently, and I loved both bands inmediately, including most of their 80's stuff. |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:31
| I agree heavily. I'm fine with everybody liking them (well, it does annoy me how much I hear about them...actually but), but I don't see it. People always talk about the big prog bands like Floyd, ELP, King Crimson, Gensis, all those people. I like all of them, but I've never cared for Genesis.... |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:32
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Yes you're the only one......agents are coming to hang you by your nose hairs. Don't bother locking the windows, they always find a way in.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 17:24
I didn't get it, Brian, but I liked it |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:22
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I like Lamb Lies Down. As for the rest, I've never really cared for it. I've tried as well, and perhaps I even had a phase at some point, but they're just not for me. I'm guessing that the most appealing factor about them is their quirkiness and theatrical side?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:30
What doesn't appeal for me is that british feeling that they give off in SEBTP. f**king hated that so much. Not to mention that every single song sounded pretentious as hell IN MY OPINION.
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:44
Enough cannot be said about Genesis. An incredible combination of emotion and brains, simplicity and complexity, and tremendous dynamics... ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:54
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I understand people that don't like Genesis, but if you say:
YOU HAVEN'T HEARD GENESIS PROGRESSIVE ROCK MUSIC.
How can something you have never heard boil your blood?
Listen Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme, Trespass, and then if you still don't like them, I will understand it's your taste, but I can't say "I don't like X band, haven't heard anything of them but still I hate them"
If you listen them and still hate them, i will even respect your opinion because you're entitled to it, most people love Gentle Giant and i can't stand them, but I gave my reasons after listening their music, but until now, your opinion means nothing, because you haven't heard them.
Peter Gabriel solo stuff is almost completely unrelated to Genesis.
You are right, there's absolutely nothing in commion except Phil Collins in the drums, playing a different music from a totally different genre.
There's something wrong in you, is called PREJUDICE, you can't talk about a band you have never heard., and Gabriel Genesis is completely unrelated to the music they play in the radios
Abt the question, listen them first and ask then.
Because now it's futile to explain you.Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:54
I always thought that as well , not musically but lyrically which in my opinion is the ultimate way of pretentiousness. I know you don't like ELP but as an example they were always about rock n' roll no matter how challenging their music was. Crappy lyrics yes , but I couldn't care less.
On the other hand Peter Gabriel always with his Hermaphroditus , Lamias and Musical boxes... I have to admit that the music is great and the band is emotional but C'mon if I were to learn about something I 'd rather read a book , not being lectured by a rock artist.
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:56
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As the others said, if you are only exposed to the Genesis played on the radio, then I can understand the hesitant attitude. I had the same problem at first because my older brother loved their 80's stuff and is a huge solo Collins and solo Gabriel fan- I couldn't fathom that their career before contained some of the finest music out there. Now the trick is getting my brother to liking Gabriel-era (I gave him Trespass)  -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 20:02
If making intelligent elaborate lyrics is pretentious then give me more peretentios music.
The last phrase is a prove of`prejudice, you don't care about the lyrics, what you don't like a "simple" Rock star making lyrics about politics, mythology, violence etc...I'd believe your prefer to leave that to the writters, and Rock artists should stay talking about sex, drugs and Rock & Roll.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 20:15
Probably not to that extent , but If I am "challenged" I'd rather like to be challenged by music. I see vocals as another instrument , that why for example Magma works for me.
And ... to be honest , I don't want to decipher records like this guy did.
http://www.bloovis.com/music/lamb.html - http://www.bloovis.com/music/lamb.html
Great work yes , but too tedious to read. You end up thinking: What's the big deal? I mean this is just a record some bloke did. , I mean I'd rather read Machiavelli. Far more trascendental.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 20:26
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 20:33
| No I actually like TAAB but I never put atention to the lyrics on that one , I'll try doing that next time I'll hear it. Not that I don't like good lyrics but I like them to be more "in your face" like Zappa did. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 20:43
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[QUOTE=crimson87]No I actually like TAAB but I never put atention to the lyrics on that one ż,/QUOTE]
Then do the same with Genesis, all that Gerald ·Little Milton" Bostock" story, the false ethics in British societty, criticism about religion, etc in TAAB is at least as pretentious and intelligent as Genesis lyrics.
I do0n't understand how it's easier to ignore crappy lyrics than good ones
Iván
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 01:36
I can understand that, but as a native Brit trust me there is so much more to, say, Battle of Epping Forest, than Gabriel just adopting silly vocal tones for effect. At this stage they were a quintessentially English band and that is totally evident throughout the album. There is a lot of wit on this album but in a totally non-discriminatory way you really do have to be British to get some of the references. This particular track mocks the concept of the UK Press glamourising gangsters: characters like Liquid Len (of wine, women and Wandsworth fame) - Wandsworth is a prison - did and do exist in the UK. None of us on PA would like to meet Mick the Prick (fresh out the nick - prison reference again) on a dark night.
In reverse fashion, even lyrics as basic as Springsteen's with all the references to teamsters, blue collar unions, Johnstown Company, American cars etc ad infinitum can confuse the average Brit. I had to ask an American mate what some of these terms meant and that's about one of the most straightforward rock acts, let alone something as complex as Genesis!
Perversely, that British feeling you pick up on so rightly on SEBTP is what finally broke Genesis into the big league in the UK. ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 16:41
Lyrical content in Genesis songs is great for me, i wish other bands have those intelligent and meaningful lyrics.
Actually you can learn a lot about the Genesis (Gabriel years) lyrics or at least being motivade to pick up a book to get more in depth into the themes. -------------  |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 16:45
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 20:37
I woudn't bother too much. The lyrics are well crafted and whitty, but Ian Mcdonald himself has said they are just that, crafty wording, and it's not about anything. People will look at it and say "oh it's a criticism of.....modern society...." or something like that, but nope.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 08:41
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i love both Selling England By the Pound and Foxtrot (they i have bought so far) realy good prog albums and Firth to Fifth is so beutifull and mindblowing. but i also like Land of Confusion i just love the creepy atmosphere of that song and musicvideo. grat guitar riff, bass rifff, a great Heavy prog track. |
Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 12:54
| The work produced by Genesis' classic lineup (1971 - 1974) is the epitome of progressive rock ...with epic tracks like The Musical Box, The Return of the Giant Hogweed, Watcher of the Skies, Supper's Ready, Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, The Battle of Epping Forest, Fly on a Windshield, Back in N.Y.C., etc., I don't see how there could ever even be a question of their validity as a progressive rock outfit. Classic Genesis IS progressive rock! |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 13:28
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To me there are about 15-20 Genesis songs really worth while (and about 5 masterpiece tracks) but the rest ... mwah, I can live without. So not of the biggest fans you might say. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: mourningknight
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 17:28
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Gabriel era Genesis is the greatest thing ever created for me. My #1 and all-time favorite,no contest. I also love A Trick Of The Tail and Wind and Wuthering. They fall into the same category. 1970-1977 Genesis just rules so hard in my opinion. That's why albums like Abacab,Genesis,Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance are so hard to take.It actually made me ill just typing those titles,lol. (ATTWT and Duke actually have some really great moments). Ok,I'll change it to Genesis 1970-1980. An incredible and stunning 10 years of music! |
Posted By: mourningknight
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 17:30
Nicely said Captain!
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 19:53
I second, third, and fourth that!
Actually, personally, without Genesis I probably wouldn't really care for 70's progressive rock at all. (Pink Floyd is another thing...) They're the only ones of the classic era of prog that are in constant rotation with me...
And even if I didn't like them, it would be utterly absurd to question their validity as prog icon, as would be questioning that of Yes, King Crimson, GentleGiant or ELP. All of these (plus a few more) define that era. I can't believe someone doesn't at least give them their well-earned place.
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 21:03
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Genesis got me into prog, and they're my #1 listened-to band on Last.fm. I still haven't found any artist with melodies as good as classic Genesis...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 21:28
There's a difference between overdoing it and doing it just right. Genesis overdid it in my opinion. Progressive doesn't necessarily mean you have to be pretentious. I don't want to see the criticism of mindless fanboys either.
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Posted By: Canprog
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 21:50
| Disagree I love Genesis. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 22:23
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 22:49
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 01:20
First of all, I only like Gabriel-era Genesis - and that is not the sh*t they normally play on the radio. Secondly, you are right about Brand X and Genesis being so different. That is actually one of the reasons why Collins joined the band - because he was able to do things in Brand X that he wasn't able to do in Genesis (as per a quote in Gallo's old [1980] book "I Know What I Like" on Genesis). So, the bottom-line is: "To Each His Own." You just have different tastes in music - no biggee... |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 09:41
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I disagree Genesis overdid anything and I don't think they were pretentious, at least not as much as many other prog bands. Their arrangements doesn't sound forced or unnecessarily complex, they usually added what their songs needed IMO. ------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Prospero
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 10:12
| I am not such a big fan myself. It is as if I enjoy Steve Hackett's and Peter Gabriel's respective solo careers more than Genesis itself. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 11:31
ASgree
So please, Overdoing it is to appear in flying pianos or scratching yout butt with a ribbon to make strange souns, overdoing it is to make an Arthur on the Ice show with castles and Hollyday on Ice crew, and that's OK, it worked for them. Using prper language, to make intelligent lyrics, is not to over do anything, is to make the music about the issues they wanted.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 11:35
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 19:34
Good to see somebody in agreement...like Ivan said, its not as if they solo for the sake of soloing and their arrangements are impeccable in that regard -------------
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Posted By: hercules amp
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 07:34
| I used to really dislike them, actually now I think about it, I still do. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 08:44
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Genesis were one of the most democratic of bands both in their compositional credits and their instrumental writing. This is abundantly illustrated where no single individual dominates as the 'spotlight soloist' over the rest. All the band are employed in the creation of a multi layered and ever changing dynamic 'whole' and this set them apart from so many of their contemporaries. The overriding priority here is always melodic whether in statement or enhancement and of all the prog giants it was perhaps Genesis who were least guilty of virtuosity as a end in itself. (You mean they don't disappear up their own backsides on the solos ?) Yep. ------------- 
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Posted By: Debra59
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 09:15
| I personally listened to these albums when they came out. Repetition over the years only makes me fonder of the recordings. Perhaps since you didn't hear them for years like many of us have, you don't get it like we do. I played Genesis the whole time my kids grew up. i always thought they would grow to appreciate them. Well finally a few weeks ago my 22 yr old son said "Mom i bought Selling England By the Pound vinyl last week." I was so proud! I also took them to see a cover band do their music with full costumes, choreography, and everything. A lot of their songs sound plain at first but they build up to some of the most amazing guitar and keyboard sections that just blow you away. I can hear their influence in a lot of music today. Listen to Firth of Fifth. The guitar solo is one of the most hearfelt, bittersweet sounding playing I have ever heard. Cinama show, Carpet Crawlers, Fly on a windsheild, Ripples, Mad Man Moon...... I don't know you may never like them. Time will tell. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 10:45
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I originally did not like Genesis because I associated them with a group of poeple I didn't especially like in high school back in the 70's. Years later I revisited the band, and while I enjoy many of their songs, I find them more simplistic in general than their contemporaries, like Yes, ELP, KC, Gentle Giant.
And the majority of Collins-era Genesis is just crap. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: TonyJames
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 13:11
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<<And the majority of Collins-era Genesis is just crap.>> That's a bit harsh there Evo. Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis recordings...and I'm a huge Gabriel fan. Sure, they're no Selling England or Nursery....but "crap"?
It's funny...I'm 48. The first Genesis I'd ever heard was Trick. I was smitten. Then Wind and Wuthering. (The reason it took me until I was 16 to listen to Genesis is because I had my head up my arse with YES since I was 11. And I mean that in a good way.) I'd heard Three Sides Live's version of Supper's Ready before I heard the original. Maybe that's why I love Trick, Wind and even Then There Were Three. But that being said...I then went back and submersed myself in the PG Genesis...and love it all as well.
Not sure why you're not "getting it" Trip. But chances are, if you're hearing any Genesis on the radio, it's from the Duke era on...and in my humble opinion...that's the REAL CRAP! (OK....somebody please flame me for being a hypocrite.)
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Posted By: Debra59
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 13:26
| I actually adore most of Duke, Some of And then there were three, and a couple off of ABACAB. But that about kills it for me. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 13:34
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As far as I am concerned Genesis is a closed circuit baby. Enjoy what they've done or dislike whatever else they did.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 13:46
Well. more simple than King Crimson and Gentle Giant..............That's obvious, KC and gentle Giant were much more complex than most early bands. But YES???? Yes is a great band, probably the one with more Prog leanings, after Jonathan King's debut (From Genesis to the Revelation), the only simple tracks in Genesis evolution were For Absent Friends, More Fool Me and I Know what I like, but structurally, Yes was much more closer to Rock and mainstream, yes, they did awesome records, but The Yes Album is mostly complex Rock. Trespass is probably one of the darkest and less friendly Symphonic albums ever. From Nursery Cryme, songs as Giant Hogweed, that mark the first time double tapping technique was used in Rock or the fantastic Musical Box, two radical changes before 2 minutes, a complex development with one of the most elaborate instrumental breaks in Prog and an ultra elaborate coda, is anything but simple, so the rest of the album except For Absent Friends. Foxtrot has Supper's ready, one of the few really multi part epics and the incredibly elaborate Can-Utility and the Coastliners, with more changes that Michael Jackson's face. SEBTP, is friendlier, because two tracks, but Firth of Fifth and specially Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, have nothing simplistic. The lamb must be the most complex and elaborate album from 70's Symphonic, still today very few know what Gabriel did. The fact is that while Yes was more based in soloing, Genesis was more worried of creating atmospheres, creating a unique interplay between Banks and Hackett, they made a different kind of music, but simple....No way. I have no doubt that Genesis made some of the most elaborate music in the 70's. Iván -------------
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 13 2009 at 14:20
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[The fact is that while Yes was more based in soloing, Genesis was more worried of creating atmospheres, creating a unique interplay between Banks and Hackett, they made a different kind of music, but simple....No way.
I have no doubt that Genesis made some of the most elaborate music in the 70's. Iván Absolutely spot on. Accuse them of what you will, but simplistic? Never, not even in the later years. Domino comes to mind - a hugely complex track with many changes in mood and timing. What about No Son of Mine, which has an incredibly complex keyboard signature. I could go on, but the fact is that Genesis were always a songwriting collective, in every manifestation of the band. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:20
well put |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:43
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Sorry, Ivan, but listen to the complexities of Close To The Edge, Relayer, Siberian Khatru (sp?). Genesis played some good stuff, but nothing like this. Genesis never gave me the feeling, as a musician, that I couldn't conceive or play the music (not the lyrics) myself. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: May 13 2009 at 19:17
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Genesis was not simplistic at all, even in their more pop albums there were still some complex arrangements. Maybe their music is not as complex as Yes or King Crimson, but I couldn't care less, it's not that being more complex make them better in my opinion. I like Yes for example, but to me their music some times lack the emotion Genesis music had, probably because they focused more on showing their musicianship while Genesis focused more on the songs.
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: May 13 2009 at 22:52
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Lately I have been listening to The Lamb and I think it is a great example of why Genesis is a great band. It is conceptually cohesive, for some reason I keep on comparing it to The Wall, but they are definitely not equals. The music is perfect, the way everyone in the band plays amazingly but keep the music from becoming focused on their virtuosity. Peter Gabriel is superb on The Lamb, songs like In the Cage are proof that he isn't just showy and weird, even if he dresses like a flower on stage. Even if you don't think it is good prog rock, and that you prefer bands like Yes, I would still say that Genesis made some great music. About Genesis: When you listen to SEBTP, is it just me or does it sound like the some of the most English sounding music you have heard? That is the impression it always gives me, especially Epping Forest. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: May 14 2009 at 02:19
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I'm very definitily on the pro-Genesis side, and I mean BOTH phases.
Let me elaborate on what I mean with 'both':
Contrary to general opinion, I tend to see two distinct Genesis eras: The first is before Abacab, and the second is Abacab and later. Note that for me it's not relevant whether Gabriel or Collins were the singers, I just see this abrupt change of style that Abacab presented.
But, as I said: I'm a fan of both 'incarnations'.
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: May 14 2009 at 15:01
I see both phases exactly the same way, and I like both, although I definitely prefer the first one. -------------
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: May 14 2009 at 17:40
That's why you're still a sergeant.  ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 15 2009 at 09:52
| PROBLEM SOVED: Turn off the radio, put on some head phones, turn on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, get under some blankets, turn off the lights, let Gabe and the boys take you away. You won't ever be the same. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 15 2009 at 10:04
There, even better. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 15 2009 at 10:31
Let's go step by Step
1.- Yes is one of the most accessible Prog bands (I remember Micky, one of the most fanatic Yes fans, calling them Pop Prog), their early material is basicallñy ROCK, simple and plain, they make a final product and overlay the arrangements, take the Organ solo of Close to the Edge and it's a boring track, but you add it and it's one of the best moments in Prog....But you can play the song with or without keyboards and still be coherent.
While the roots of Yes are in Beatles, Moody Blues and bands as Simon and Garfunkel,. the roots of Genesis can be traced diirectly to Prog, in other words to In the Court of the Crimson King, as a fact, their sound changed radically when Peter took a copy of In the Court to the first Trespass sessions.
Yes never broke with the past, still there are echoes of their first simpler albums in all their discography, you find nothing pre-Trespass in Prog Genesis.
2.- Genesis was an integral product, if you take a keyboard note from Musical Box, you make it unlistenable, you destroy the logic, the coherence. In Yes the keyboards are the cherry on the top of the cake, in Genesis the interplay between guitar and keyboards is the whole cake.
3.- Relayer is as complex as The Lamb, if not less.
4.- Siberian Khatru is a Rock track with complex arrangements, nothing more, while Fountain of Salmacis or Giant Hogweed are a compact work from which you can't remove anything.
My two cents
Iván -------------
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: May 16 2009 at 06:04
Someone else is in agreement here too... me  ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |