Assimilation of local music in prog and rock...
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Topic: Assimilation of local music in prog and rock...
Posted By: The T
Subject: Assimilation of local music in prog and rock...
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 23:19
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This will mostly apply to people from countries other than the US and UK, though both can also participate and claim folk credentials.
It's not really about folk rock but something similar. The question starts with my comment about my situation. My country (Ecuador) has a kind-of emerging metal scene and somewhat of a rock-scene (both kind of suck in quality but at least they exist now) but I've yet to hear ONE single band that incorporates any kind of traditional element in their music. Not in instrumentation (nobody that I know has dared to incorporate a rondador, a wooden wind instrument), not in actual rhythm or stylistic assimilation (nobody has made a fussion with genres like pasillo - a depressive thing that actually sucks but it's loved in the country, especially to drink to it - or dances like san juanito ). It's like the closest they go is by adding instruments from other places!!! Showing complete lack of identity, they copy other countries' styles and can't create something assimilating their own... Even in metal, not even the best bands (prog ones too) decide to do that extra thing....
What about your country? Has rock, metal and prog assimilated the popular music of your country? This is not about folk prog but about giving examples and recognizing how artists have added elements of your countries' traditional dances and songs in their music. My country sucks in this. What about yours? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 23:47
Well, I can think of an example inspired by the Québec's folklore (Québec isn't technically a country but the folklore is really different than from the rest of Canada). Conventum is prog band with strong influences from the local folklore. It can be heard in the singing style and lyrics, the story telling and the violin reels. It's pretty good too.  Can't think of any others for now. -------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Turion
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 23:56
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Harmonium est selon moi TRÈS évidemment québécois! C'est loin de sonner canadien!
Harmonium is in my opinion VERY quebec-ish. It doesn't sound canadian at all. ------------- ?: ( |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 00:31
| Being from the US I know of only one real prog Banjo record and it is really great. The Tony Trischka Band put out an album called Bend back in 1999. Saw them live a couple of times around then too, waaaay better than any Bela Fleck. Kinda like Jean-Luc Ponty & Dixie Dregs mashed together with a banjo. The line up has Banjo, Guitar, Saxophone, Bass & Drums. I-tunes store has it if you want to check out the samples. HIGHLY recommended to anyone with an interest in fusion. |
Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 01:28
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I'm American but my family is from Italy and Ecuador. I've never really noticed any native influences in American prog for the most part but as far as Italian goes, Francesco Giacomo of Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso has a very powerful operatic voice. I haven't heard any Ecuadorian prog bands. My grandparents have a large collection of Ecuadorian music but I've never really listened to it. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 02:18
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The only band in my country to do it with any finesse was Gryphon, who incorporated traditional instruments and musical style. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 05:29
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Well, in Denmark there's a band that combines folk music with post-punky electronic stuff. I can't remember what they were called, but I remember them being a bit similar in mood (if not actual style) to something Nick Cave could come up with. There's also the Hellacopters, that Swedish rock band I'm a fan of... they're very far from progressive and so proudly lowbrow they make Motörhead look like Magma, but even though most of their inspiration is American - specifically, Michiganite - hard rock from the sixties and seventies I find something about their music very Swedish. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 05:41
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From Norway there is Hardingrock - a mix of metal and traditional Norwegian http://www.hf.uio.no/imv/om-instituttet/nfs/felenett/traditio/thehardi/thehardi.html - Harding fiddle  ------------- What? |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 06:22
| They say there are prog bands here in the Philippines, but I have yet to hear what they produce. On Mindanao, where I live, there is a gong-xylophone instrument (similar to the "gamelan" in Indonesia). Mixing the percussive sounds they get out of that instrument with prog-esque style music I think would find an audience - and not just in Southeast Asia... |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 08:34
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70's bands here in denmark, especialy those bording prog did infact incoporate some elements
from "local" traditions.
Today the music scene has changed, and the "traditions" continues more in a "mainstream" danish language" pop/rock, than in the more experimental music ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 08:44
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Another Norwegian band that incorporate folk music is Vamp. They are quite proggy as well, but maybe not enough to be included here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PbMZx4OJg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PbMZx4OJg Here with a symphony orchestra – though it isn´t exactly rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnURFfGxwCs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnURFfGxwCs ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: TheMaz
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 09:21
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That's an interresting topic. But I might add an interresting twist to it. What about the reverse ? What about having a band that plays folk or traditionnal music and add a prog element to it ?.
In the 80's, there was such a band for the French Canadian culture called Garolou, and it was very good. Hearing those traditionnal/folk french song in a prog style was really cool !
------------- TheMaz www.johnnymaz.ca |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 09:29
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^ Another Norwegian band, Folque, did that. They’re also listed here. And there’s a Swedish/Finnish band called Hedningarna who play folk music from Karelia. Their second album, Kaksi, is amazing. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: DatM
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 09:52
I'm from Panama, and it's pretty much how you describe. But recently there has been more interest in incorporating those elements into rock. In a few years it could get really interesting if more ppl follow that trend. I think it's only natural that relatively young scenes, like those in our respective countries, are still finding their way. For example in Chile I think there is a stronger connection with folk music from back in the 70's with bands like Los Jaivas and Congreso. The panamanian rock scene was still in diapers back then. Of course, there's also a stronger American influence than in most south american countries, but that's a whole other bag of beans... ------------- Death and the Maiden - A Metal Tribute To String Quartets http://www.deathandthemaiden.net - Website http://www.myspace.com/deathmaiden - Myspace |
The T wrote:Posted By: victor77
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 10:16
| In Spain, it has been quite usual the inclusion of folk elements, mainly by the flamenco tradition (TRIANA is perhaps the best example, but there are others, including the great flamenco singer CAMARON or guitarist PACO DE LUCIA), but also other instruments like bagpipes in Galicia (from Celthic origins) and also folk woodwinds in Catalonia (best example in this jazz-folk fussion is COMPANYIA ELECTRICA DHARMA) |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 10:45
| Well , there are examples of prog bands from my country including local folclore in their music. If anyone is interested , may check Arco Iris's " Sudamerica ( O el Regreso a la Aurora) It's a masterpiece the site has yet to discover. |
Posted By: RaúlGuate
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 11:03
The T! The answer to your question is here :http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3207 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3207 Especially the first 3 albums. They inculde national rythms in the song Posadas of the first album. Also, the song "Conquista" has a son intro, complete with chirimía and tun. The son is a guatemalan dance that comes from ancient times. Their song "Espíritu del Duende" is rooted firmly in mayan tradition. It's on the samples here, you should check it out. A much better example, although not in ProgArchives, but they could be a possible candidate when/if they release an album: http://www.myspace.com/percushworld%20%20 - - www.myspace.com/percushworld http://www.myspace.com/percushworld%20%20 - The marimba is essential to their sound and they make a really weird fusion of sounds. They're also amazing to watch live! In Guatemala there are a few "modern folk" projects like this, http://www.myspace.com/hacedordelluvia - - http://www.myspace.com/hacedordelluvia , but that's a whole different story, they have little to none relation to prog. Raúl ------------- BAND "La Oveja Negra": http://www.myspace.com/lasuperovej - http://www.myspace.com/lasuperovej SOLO STUFF: http://www.myspace.com/ralsoto - http://www.myspace.com/ralsoto |
Posted By: easytargets
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 13:13
I´m from Cantabria and Ibio (which it´s in these archives) uses to remark their musical roots.
I know they have only a couple of albums but Cuevas de Altamira (their first from1978) is full
of traditional songs that I´ve sung when I was part of a male choir, and has used and adapted
some instruments usually played in our traditional music.
------------- The water rushes over all cities crash in the mighty wave; the final man is very small, plunging in for his final bathe |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:07
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Mexican stuff (especially the track "Maria"): ../artist.asp?id=3281 - LA PURA REALIDAD |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:21
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"That's an interresting topic. But I might add an interresting twist to it. What about the reverse ? What about having a band that plays folk or traditionnal music and add a prog element to it ?." IN the US there is a movement called Newgrass" which combines traditional bluegrass style with all kinds of outside influences. Not really proggy sounding, but some really cool stuff nevertheless. BTW why did my avvy suddenly get so tall?
 |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:28
Don't you like it? 
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 17:09
So you are from Mexico?
 I thought in another proggy album by the band 0.725 Aleacion, which also brought a lot of folkloric and traditional sounds from Mexico. ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 17:17
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Here in colorado we have an (ocassionally) progressive jam band called The String Cheese Incedent that incorperates alot of bluegrass into their jamming as well as jazz, psychedellic, country and other styles ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 05:33
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I come from Lebanon, and I live in France, and I think this subject is a bit delicate. Incorporating local folk into your music can quickly become cliché if you haven't really absorbed the folk music in its sounds and rythms. You can't just say, "I'm from France, I should put in some accordeon in my songs...". I think the best way to incorporate folk music in your composition, is to be able not to think you really are! The fact that you WANT to incorporate traditionnal elements into your music can make it artificial. You have to compose with the folk music as an inspiration just like others. Moreover, it won't be the same if you're playing jazz for example or prog. In prog in particular, this issue is more delicate (as is every note...). You have to work with precision and be able to chose the right moment and the right mood, with the right orchestration. In jazz, your choices are more varied. You can have a theme that's close to your folk music, and put in a local instrument for an improv or to play a theme. That's how you can easily have guest musicians come in, do their thing without any preparation. In France, people don't tend to mix, because french music has a very different state of mind compared to UK/US culture. Songs are moslty based on the lyrics, and musically there has never been something really "French" if not some french rock or old songs with some accordeon. In Lebanon, you can find for example composers who made classical arabic music in the seventies that are now playing jazz with a big folk influence (I'm thinking of Ziad Rahbani an essential Lebanese pianist). You can also find "oriental" rock and metal, but they quickly sound cliché, as the incorporation of folk music is a bit "forced". ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: chaos8619
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:23
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:26
I was thinking Gryphon too - however, surely Blackmores Night would qualify, given their fusion of proggish folk with traditional instrumentation & styles 
[edit] Or is the caveat here your use of the phrase "with any finesse"?  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:57
I've never really listened to Blackmores Night - I think the cost of the CDs (which always seems to be quite high) has always put me off trying them (and Candice's voice
 )Ex-Enid guitarist Francis Lickerish is mixing medieval, prog, classical and folk with his new band Secret Garden... just waiting for him to finish their debut album...
Of course, there is the Medieval Babes  ------------- What? |
Posted By: meptune
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:28
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Cabezas de Cera has some very interesting ethnic influences, you can find them here on PA.
Also check out Guillermo Cides http://stickcenter.com/Cides/ - http://stickcenter.com/Cides/ great Stick player with some interesting influences.
But you must check out Kimmo Pohjonen http://www.kimmopohjonen.com/nav.php?url=KTU.html - http://www.kimmopohjonen.com/nav.php?url=KTU.html He is a Finnish accordian player who studied folk music at the Sibelius Academy and he works with Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto in a group called K-TU.
------------- 
"Arf, she said" |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:45
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In Germany there was Ougenweide who incorporated lots of traditional instruments, especially medieval ones. Also Schwartenhals.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 12:48
Let's not forget Rabih Abouh-Khalil, who also originally is from Lebanon. He plays oud and flute (though lately only oud). He spends his time in Germany and France these days though (he speaks perfect German, without any accent). ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:36
Hmmm. I remember reading that Dick Dale, that surf music guy, was of Lebanese descent and worked a lot of folk music from that country into music so a lot of surf is full of second-hand Lebanese folk influences! Is there any truth to this, and if yes do you think that falls into the category of "oriental rock" sounding forced and cliché?  ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: DatM
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 06:39
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou ------------- Death and the Maiden - A Metal Tribute To String Quartets http://www.deathandthemaiden.net - Website http://www.myspace.com/deathmaiden - Myspace |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 11:44
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Yeah, but that one is Greek not Lebanese.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 13:32
No but I appreciate hispanic/latin-american flavour to any form of art... |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 14:05
Well, after reading and hearing two or three things, I would rather say that the 70's French bands tried to incorporate various influences. I still think that Ange, Etron Fou Leloublan or Komintern were influenced by popular French music, but mixed it with English-American pop influences and a strong sense of "avant-garde". Without accordion, though. |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 15:16
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Ripaille and Malicorne,Ame Son also ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: popeyethecat
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 14:23
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I'm from England, so my own country's traditional music...isn't really that exciting XD But I am a great fan of traditional music from around the world. And in Prog I would say a band that incorporates a real national identity in their music is Moonsorrow! Although primarily they're a Folk Metal band, they are definitely Proggy on their more recent albums. They use all sorts of interesting instruments, like the very beautiful and very Finnish Jouhikko. Their melodies are often reminiscent of Finnish folk songs and they did a gorgeous version of a folk song to finish off their Kivenkantaja album. I am a big fan of Bulgarian folk music, so it would be great to hear a blend of their musical traditions and Prog! I think it'd be very compatible. All I've heard so far was a Metal band called Kerozy who sampled a bit of a folk song. ------------- 
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Posted By: cacha71
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 07:08
Posted By: 3rd Ear Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 17:14
Posted By: ChocloMan Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 17:31
Posted By: Angelo Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 17:50
Posted By: Raff Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 18:14
Posted By: Angelo Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 18:21
Posted By: JesusisLord Date Posted: January 14 2009 at 20:00
Posted By: Toaster Mantis Date Posted: January 15 2009 at 04:07
Posted By: DatM Date Posted: January 15 2009 at 08:35
Posted By: fattony88 Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 16:33
Posted By: Jimbo Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 17:05
Posted By: The Pessimist Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 17:23
Posted By: popeyethecat Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 18:38
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OUCH... In any case in my country, there is no "Local" rock, no roll, there is no Jazz no Prog no nothing but the mindless pulsating rhytms of Hawaii's own "Jah-Waiian" scene( A : tropical "blend" of rap and Reggae,usually rapped in Pidgin English or some Polynesian language and with all due respect to Bob Marley, Rap and Reggae are two of the most nauseating forms of music to these ears) Traditonal Hawaiian music is quite nice and enjoyable with Slack Key guitar playing being a popular export of Hawaii and some reason I cannot hear slack key or traditional Hawaii folk ever being blended together with rock to form or create good prog... Some flavors were never meant to blend....
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